My God - What happened to this place?

[EffieBlack]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by SYFROYH (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).

I haven't been here much recently but am completely stunned at what I'm seeing. This forum is unrecognizable. If I didn't know any better, I'd think it was a Republican website, with all of the attacks on Democrats with little positive discussion about our own candidates, issues, etc. just vicious smears, accusations, name-calling, "my candidate is an infallible god, your Democrtic candidate is a corrupt/naive/arrogant spawn of the devil and anyone who supports him/her is a stupid idiot."

What I'm reading here is virtually indistinguishable from the content of the most virulently hateful right wing websites.

What in the hell happened to DU?

[Blue_Adept]

1. "It's primary season"

That's what's usually said as a cover to get away with being vile.

I've been here since 2001 and I've never seen GDP go this deep in this direction before. It's surreal. Part of it is that it's now combined with the social media mindset where it's about scoring points with memes and snark and that's a vicious circle.

[synergie]

8. There is a lot of vileness going on and a lot of basically hiding in one's little clique, simply

because some folks don't seem to be able to have a grown up discussion anymore. If someone says something that they cannot refute, and cannot handle, they silence them by kicking them out of their little clubs.

I remember it being rather toxic a couple of presidential cycles ago, and it seems that the same hatreds have just grown more toxic.

[nolabels]

14. Before 2008 it wasn't this ugly

Back in the early days people took in the information from the posts more completely before making a reply that was good, bad or just indifferent. People came here for knowledge and not for one-ups-man-ship and bombastic turnabouts. I still come here to see what's going on but its much harder to gain any knowledge because there is just so much B.S. one needs to sift through first.

[FarPoint]

28. It is much worse than past years...

We don't have physical Moderators anymore. The Jury system is ineffective. This opened the door for hijacking control of the Board by dominant groups. We have hides when rules were never broken...

[RFKHumphreyObama]

53. Really? I thought 2004 and 2008 were much worse

But then again, maybe that's because this time around I have no emotional investment in or particular affinity with any of the candidates and so I notice it less than the previous primary seasons when I did.

[Blue_Adept]

65. That may be part of it

While we all have "skin in the game", I tend to keep my distance and not "give my heart" to any candidate simply because of my own experiences and understanding of politics. So I tend to play more from the sidelines.

[DCBob]

2. Some I think are Republicans... many are independents or socialists... seems few are Democrats.

Its disturbing.

[Punkingal]

7. And that response is part of the problem here.

It's disturbing that people are often told they are not a democrat here, because of an opinion or a statement, or who their preferred candidate is. That is outrageous.

[DCBob]

10. The Bernie supporters are the ones claiming they are the true Democrats..

and the rest of us are Turd Wayers or Repub-lites or DINOs, etc.

[Punkingal]

11. The"Bernie supporters" are not the only ones who do that.

To say that is ludicrous.

[DCBob]

16. Maybe not the only ones but they sure are the most frequent.

[TCJ70]

18. Really?

Just further down in this thread someone mentions that MOM and HRC are the only Democrats actually running...Kinda flies in the face of what you're saying.

[DCBob]

24. You must not read much on this site.

Most Hillary supporters have had these insults hurled at time repeatedly. Most of us seem to have given up and dont even post pro-Hillary posts anymore for fear of being pounced on.

[TheFarS1de]

29. They went to a cave

Because posting stuff here that they post there would get a ban . They doth protest too much methinks

[Gore1FL]

36. In fairness, you only read headlines. n/t

[MADem]

30. The person saying that is a Sanders supporter. Check the profile. They're SNARKING. nt

[asjr]

33. Several months ago I was barred from Bernie Sanders discussions

and to this day do not understand why. I have never said anything derogatory about him but was not allowed to go into the discussions. The only ones I can't tolerate are Republicans. I still am barred from his group. I have been here since 2002 and do not post often but this has really made me wonder why I still am here at Democratic Underground.

[NurseJackie]

19. Thank you!! That's something that has been hurled at me often.

Not just "hinted at" ... but said outright.

[DrDan]

26. that's the way I see it also - no room for compromise or any difference of opinion

very narrow thinking

[EdwardBernays]

3. The only people that are Democrats

Are people supporting Hillary...

Apparently.

[philosslayer]

12. Well with the exception of MOM....

She's the only Democrat running.

[EdwardBernays]

15. Funny

How those two aren't the only ones listed on the ballot of the Democratic primaries.

Someone should make some calls and let the proper authorities know they've screwed it up!

It's also funny that in New Hampshire the candidate leading in the poll with Democratic voters isn't one of the people you mentioned.

Someone should let them know as well. They obviously aren't planing on voting for an approved candidate. And god knows how badly things will go if that's allowed to happen.

Good catch!

[synergie]

35. Then why is it that so many Bernie supporters are the ones accusing anyone who challenges them

on any point at all, the ones hopping up and down accusing others of not being Democrats, even when they don't mention any candidate at all?

Apparently, those who do not support Bernie, or point out that he has been an Independent for the past few decades is not a Democrat.

[EdwardBernays]

45. I have yet to see that

I don't doubt you have, but... the VAST majority of Bernie posts I'e seen in relation to this issue are people complaining ABOUT the Democratic Party, not people saying that Bernie IS the Democratic Party.

Anyway - I find the whole thing absurd... at the end of the day Bernie IS running as a Democrat, not as anything else.

A more interesting conversation is: how will the Party change if Bernie is elected vs how will the party change if Hillary is elected...?

[Motown_Johnny]

4. I think the no fly zone in Syria was a new threshold.

Once people here started defending that policy things went off the rails.

Maybe it was just me but that seemed to be when it really got bad.

[ucrdem]

31. Personally I think it was when Bernie sued the DNC.

He should have listened to Groucho and refused to join any club that would have him as a member.

[Gore1FL]

37. Or maybe when the DNC breached the contract to cause the lawsuit. n/t

[ucrdem]

43. No, team Bernie breached it by illegally accessing Clinton data. nt

[Hiraeth]

46. that should have been unaccessible if someone had done the job correctly for MONTHS

[Gore1FL]

48. That explains why the DNC reinstated it so quickly. nt

[lark]

55. I think the vitriol here hit new levels when PP supported HRH

All of a sudden, PP is the devil and no dem should support them. This is just pure disgusting and so anathema to the Democratic big tent ideals. I'm one who always puts policy over personality and PP has done worlds of good for women without insurance and young women who can't get the medical services any other place.


And I will vote for Bernie in the primaries. Not letting actions of some out there supporters turn me off the real deal of Bernie.

[Thinkingabout]

5. It is sad when some of the smears sounds like Rush shows.

You are right, bet the RW readers are very happy with reading the posts.

[cali]

9. Yes,the right wing attacks on Bernie are disturbing

[Thinkingabout]

13. Yes, it is disturbing to see RW attacks on Democrats on a Democratic site.

[zeemike]

52. It's disturbing to me to see lock step

And anyone not in lock step with the party authority called a right winger.
The dichotomy politics...the with us or against us used again.
There is nothing more right wing than that IMO.

[Thinkingabout]

66. No, I know RW talking points when I see them, maybe some

Who post RW talking points do not know they are RW talking points.

[R B Garr]

41. Link to your bogus claim.

What is more evident here is new-found holier-than-thou RW morality because a popular ex-president is stumping for Hillary.

[Renew Deal]

6. This should explain some of it.

One faction like democrats less and dislikes republicans less


http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/how-republicans-and-democrats-feel-about-their-opponents

http://www.scribd.com/doc/294643292/NBC-News-SurveyMonkey-Weekly-Election-Tracking-Poll

[bigwillq]

17. Primary season has always been pretty nasty

This year is no different.

EB

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

20. The problem: Your candidate sucks. Mine rocks.

Things will become calmer after the ticket is clear.

[Scuba]

21. It's a political discussion board, and it's primary season. Not for the faint of heart.

[ismnotwasm]

22. You should see the threads about whitewater and Vince Foster

The entertainment never ends.

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. Isn't this META?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025307978

DISRUPTIVE META-DISCUSSION
Positive threads about Democratic Underground or its members are are permitted.

Threads complaining about Democratic Underground or its members; threads complaining about jury decisions, locked threads, suspensions, bannings, or the like; and threads intended to disrupt or negatively influence the normal workings of Democratic Underground and its community moderating system are not permitted.

[Hiraeth]

44. why yes, yes it is.

[santafe52]

25. GREAT POST!

I share your disappointment and disgust with what's going on here. The incessant attacks on Hillary and Obama are over the top.

I really have to believe that there are many Right Wingers here masquerading as Democrats. I used to recommend DU to friends and family as a great source to get the real stories in politics. Not now. I'm searching for a site that is actually Pro-Democrat, Pro-Liberal.

Hopefully, after the primary season, all REAL Democrats and Liberals will join together in the upcoming battle against EVIL.

[RKP5637]

32. K&R! Democrats need to bond together, not divide and conquer each other. That, is a sure recipe

for losing 2016! And, if an R wins the WH in 2016, most might as well forget about things for likely the next 1/2 century, because SCOTUS will be filled likely with conservatives like Scalia for the most part.

[RKP5637]

27. I just glance over a lot of the replies, anymore, because many are just smears

and snarks. I'll take a look at the link, sometimes, but not the replies if they go snarky.

[heaven05]

34. Du IS a true reflection of americans

these days.The election of Barack Obama has allowed many over the last 7+ years to finally show their true feelings on matters both political and racial. I have watched the overall culture of this country do the same. It is ripe for a Trump takeover....god forbid......

[dgibby]

60. I think you are absolutely right,

and that's probably one of the most frightening things that's ever happened to this country in my 70 years on this earth.

When I was growing up, I could never understand how the Germans could allow the rise of Hitler, but now it's all crystal clear, and it's sickening to contemplate that it could happen so easily here as well. The signs and symptoms are visible for anyone paying attention.

If things continue to deteriorate as rapidly as they have in the last 30 years, I seriously doubt the Union will be able to withstand the growing rift. I laughed when I read that there was a Russian professor who believed the US would eventually breakup into several smaller countries, but I'm not laughing anymore.

[sellitman]

38. Many of one Candidate have left DU

Since I spend more time Tweeting than I do here nothing seems to bother me.

People just like stirring the pot.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

39. the right leaning dems support Clinton - the left leaning dems support Sanders

Clinton seems to represent more of the same

Sanders seems to represent a real push away from the 40 years of the move to the right

It is a serious issue that brings out strong feelings

no mystery here

without a large and loud majority pushing change is not possible

join the fight against the never ending race to the right or watch the continuing destruction of the lives of many many americans

[in_cog_ni_to]

40. The RW Third Way

that infiltrated the Democratic party have infiltrated DU. Their RW Third Way candidate is going to miss her coronation and they can't handle it. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

Bernie ruined their grand plan so he's considered the spawn of Satan.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[Hiraeth]

42. welcome back.

[ronbison]

47. Yeah

This place is getting the ball stench of a rightwing locker room. Just try saying something even remotely...no not even negative..try saying something that is simply a neutral observation but is not a glowing endorsement of Bernie. Such as the time I pointed out that if Bernie's supporters were going to laud polls that favored him, it was illogical to dismiss those same polls when they favored Hillary. Not even anything about Bernie, really. I was chastised and put on more than one ignore list. I don't have a problem with Bernie, he seems like a nice enough guy. But I don't think he pees ambrosia and farts Chanel No.5 either.

Anyway, I get the same feelings here as I do when I read Republican smear jobs. No surprise since the criticisms, distortions and lies are the same, often word for word, especially where Hillary is concerned.

Bill Clinton! White Water! Lewinsky! Oh my!

I am not sure if I want to be a part of this monkey shit fight anymore. The is not enough Republican in me to use or tolerate the torrent of name calling, lies, and personal attacks that passes for discourse on this site recently.

*drops mike. Backs slowly to the door flipping double birds*

[relayerbob]

49. Yep

I only come by about once a week or so these days, the amount of hero worship, ego and opponent trashing is unbearable.

[BlueJazz]

50. I blame it all on Little Debbie. Seriously, I don't take it much to heart.

[Le Taz Hot]

51. I don't know, what has happened?

It was always understood that GD-P was a battleground forum, so I'm not sure why we get these "Oh, woah is me, y'all are so mean" threads at least twice a day. I've been here since 2001 and NONE of this is new. Butch up or trash the forum. It's completely up to you.

[maddiemom]

54. The hate is strongest here for Hillary.

I support Bernie, but still prefer Hillary to ANY possible Republican candidate. Where do we go from here if Hillary, as is likely, is the nominee? I can't see much walking back on much of what is being said here. Helloooo Ted Cruz! Major disaster coming up.

[Broward]

56. Chickens coming home to roost.

The Third Wayers have sold out to corporate interests and have steadily moved the party to the right over the past few decades.
Many people are fed up and angry. This is manifesting itself in numerous ways, including people speaking out on message boards such as DU. Not sure what level of discourse you're expecting, but lives and livelihoods are at stake which is naturally going to bring out a lot of passion.

[nyabingi]

69. Spot on (nt)

[still_one]

57. Maybe waiting until primaries are over might be what the doctor ordered. It has been brutal

[Fumesucker]

58. Many people are tired of the establishment while it serves quite a few others

If you are weary of establishment politics, if you have been one of the losers, then you are motivated for actual change. On the other hand if you are a winner in the establishment game then of course you seek to maintain that position of advantage, privilege if you will.

Obama vs Clinton 2008 seen in retrospect was clearly establishment vs establishment, many people wrote their desires on the more or less blank slate that was Obama and were shocked when he turned out to be a lot more establishment centrist than many had imagined.

At this point to many Bernie looks like the real deal for actual non establishment change while Clinton promises to take us back to the 90's. The happiest and most normal years of my life were during the 90's but I don't want to go back there because I've already seen the movie and all it did was set up a nasty sequel.

[Sanity Claws]

59. Paid trolls?

That has been my guess for some time

[andrewv1]

61. Hey, get an Alternative Presidential Candidate @ the Convention

that everybody can agree on....

I would be all for it if the Democrats would be stronger in November.

One thing that's not going to work though is a Stealth Right Winger who sprinkles a couple of Liberal Social Views on top of them to look more acceptable to the Democratic base.

....Not interested

[randome]

62. Some of it may stem from the 'Occupy Wars' from some time back.

As well as the 'Snowden Skirmish' and the 'Assange Actions'.

Those of us who have the ability to look at things dispassionately have little to lose. Others, on the other hand...well, they seem resentful and bitter and some of that may be infiltrating DU during the Sanders Skirmishes.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[nyabingi]

63. You know what's going on

because it has been going on since the Democratic Party decided they wanted to coddle the rich and their corporations after years of being out-spent by their Republican colleagues. With this new love for corporate money, the Democratic Party necessarily moved to the right (which used to be a moderate Republican position) on many issues and alienated much of its base in the process. The only thing keeping today DP from being totally indistinguishable from yesterday's Republican are some social issues and the fact that the Republicans have moved almost completely into the far-right radical territory.

You saw this happening when many people chose to vote for Ralph Nader over Al Gore - you spend your efforts reaching for the Republican vote (which never was going to happen) and coddling the wealthy, then it's your fault if the people you've marginalized vote for a third party candidate. Bernie Sanders' support is from the base of the alienated Democrats who would like to see the party present true opposition to Republican values instead of "grand bargains" which bring suffering to many while the fortunes of the rich go through the roof.

What is happening now is a continuation of the fight for the soul and essence of what the Democratic Party stands for and believes in, so there's heated debate and hot rhetoric flying, and that's a good thing. It's long past time for the DP to take stock of itself, look and the mirror, and decide where it's going in the future.

[Broward]

68. Great post. If they don't know what's going on, they should after reading this.

[randr]

64. Trolls have brought out the worst in us.

[catbyte]

67. I've been a member of DU since 2002, and I've seen a serious erosion of civility here--just like

everywhere else. The poison injected into public discourse by the Republicans have infected us even here. I hesitate to leave DU because I love it so much, but it's something I'm considering--which just breaks my heart. It's a rare thing now to not get attacked for something I post. It's really sad.

[aikoaiko]

70. Locking.

OPs complaining about DU and its members is considered disruptive meta - discussion and prohibited in the main forums.