A friend..."I'm not going to vote."

[Drunken Irishman]

I met with a friend I hadn't seen since the beginning of the year. The last time we spoke, I asked if he was going to vote and he told me that he was planning on it because he couldn't handle another Republican president. He's my age, we're in our 20s, and he's a pretty liberal guy. I got him to vote in '08, his first real election, and was happy that he would be voting again four years later.

Well today, we met up for some lunch and, since I hadn't seen him since February, I asked if he still planned to vote.

"No. I'm not going to vote..."

I rolled my eyes. Great. What changed his mind? He has to buy into the idea that there is no difference between Obama & Romney - right? Ugh...I was gonna have to explain to him those differences.

But I was surprised by his answer when I asked why.

"I'm not voting because there is no point...I read on the internet the Republicans are going to steal it anyway, so why bother?"

It was a sobering remark. I tried to convince him, but he didn't seem to care. He was convinced the election was already decided from the liberal blogs he had read that indicated the Republicans were going to steal it.

By the end of lunch, I asked him to reconsider, but he felt so defeatist that he made me defeatist.

And that's when I realized - all this proactive talk about the Republicans stealing this election might be turning it into a self-fulfilling prophecy. I see it here on DU every single day. Someone will post a positive poll and one of the first comments will be that it doesn't account for their stealing it. If the margin is close, it's close enough to steal.

People are reading this and becoming more and more convinced this election is a lost cause because of it. Which is ironic, because the awareness is supposed to help - but I have a feeling it's not helping much. It's creating nervous and apathetic supporters who are skeptical of ever voting because they don't believe their vote will count...or matter.

I asked him if anyone else he knew felt this way and he told me a lot of his friends do. It was so disturbing to hear - not voting because you've already conceded the Republicans are going to steal it anyway.

But it makes sense. I see it every single day on DU.

In a positive poll about Wisconsin posted today, the first post:

Nobody should relax, particularly in Wisconsin. Between voter suppression and outright election fraud (electronic and otherwise) I suspect the Republicans will "win" Wisconsin.

First post in a poll showing Obama up five-points in Virginia:

They'll have to try and supress the vote there too...

Those were just two examples. But I've seen a variation of these posts for months now - they're either going to steal it, are in the process of stealing it or very well could steal it.

It's a scary thought, I know, and we all want to make sure it doesn't happen. But at the same time, we're also kind of setting a very negative narrative out there that could be impacting less-passionate voters who really do believe this election is going to be stolen.

My friend's words scared me. I'm only in Utah, so, his vote won't matter a lick. But what if it's like this across the country? What if Democrats are reading the blog posts that the Republicans are stealing it and listen to Rachel Maddow talk daily on her show about how they're stealing it, and convince themselves there is no point in voting anyway because...the outcome has already been decided?

You know, elections are always about narrative. You've got to want your voters committed and engaged to win. If they're dispirited, that's just as damning as being overconfident. If they're questioning the validity of the election, that's just as damning as accepting your candidate is going to win no matter what - if not more.

If people here on DU, who are more tuned into national politics and have a better understanding of the fight, are suggesting Republicans are going to steal this one...what does that say for the non-educated Obama supporter? The person from Ohio who reads a post that the Republicans are going to steal their vote, so, they decide not to vote at all?

That's all I hear daily now. Republicans are stealing Ohio...and Wisconsin...and Pennsylvania. While it might be right in the truest sense, it's also a very negative message to send out to voters. It's basically telling them they shouldn't vote because their vote will be stolen anyway.

So they don't.

And then we've got a problem.

I tried convincing my friend this election still meant something...but he was told they were going to steal it and if they're going to steal it, why does it matter voting anyway? I told him they weren't going to steal it - but I'm afraid it fell on deaf ears.

I hope, no I pray, more people don't share his views. But looking at DU, and all the negative posts here about the election, I'm guessing a great deal of voters share that view. I mean, how can't you when all you read, day in and day out, is that the Republicans are going to steal this election...that the polls don't matter because the Republicans are going to steal this election...that the margins don't matter because the Republicans are going to steal this election.

Well that leads to not voting since votes don't matter because, gosh, the Republicans are going to steal this election.

It's exhausting.

[CabCurious]

1. Brutally harass them every day

[robweisser]

21. Yes--Keep after your friends

If they hear it from someone they trust (you), it will balance out the internet nonsense. They just have to hear it again and again and again, right up until election day.

[roguevalley]

41. remind him that evil triumphs when people of good will do nothing. He should lose it all for that

whining attitude. People died to vote. Slap him.

[kimbutgar]

2. Ask your friend how hard is it to get off his lazy ass and vote?

I vote and it takes about 15 minutes to get to the poll and vote. Or tell him he can get a mail in ballot and vote. It is just laziness on his part and since he will not vote he can no longer complain if the repubs get back in power and make things even harder for him that he even loses his minimum wage job. The GOP wants to do away with minimum wage laws and you can believe it will affect every working American. Call his lazy ass out! Now is not time for apathy but action!!!!

[Scootaloo]

3. It's only possible to steal slim elections

The fewer people vote, the easier it is.

[Drunken Irishman]

5. I agree...but the message is setting in that they're going to steal it.

And that very well could drive down voter turnout. It just seems we're so fixated on convincing Americans that they can steal it that we're forgetting that people are starting to believe they will steal it.

His point of view is wrong, but I understand it. If Republicans are going to steal it anyway, why vote? Why does it matter?

[monmouth]

18. I'm so sick of these whiney people..I hope he has no opinions in the future..n/t

[Scuba]

4. Remind him they tried to steal it in '08 and failed because people like him voted....

... and we had enough numbers to overcome their fraud.

[freshwest]

28. +1. That's what Palast said in 2004. Only a massive turnout would overcome the fraud. In 2008,

People were literally camping out the night before outside the voting places.

Some were so exhausted they had to be taken to the hospital, but refused to leave without voting.

Despite wide spread fraud, the massive numbers overcame and they can again.

I don't believe that the OP writer's friend is put off by election fraud, but by the contention that Obama is the same as Bush or Romney. We do see versions of that here on DU daily.

[treestar]

56. +2

[HockeyMom]

6. Voting against a candidate

If you don't like either candidate in particular. They never heard of that? The lesser of two "evils" so to speak. That is what I heard two Independents and 2 Republicans say. Voting against Romney, not FOR Obama.

[Drunken Irishman]

8. It's not about not liking Obama...it's that he thinks the election is lost through theft...

And because of that, he doesn't feel the need to vote because his vote won't count.

[HockeyMom]

11. Given what I experienced voting in Florida last time

and now with "voter purges" and Rick Scott wanting to deliver Florida to Repukes, I am not worried my vote won't count? Requesting Absentee Ballot.

[JHB]

50. ...and dropping out lets that happen. Please do keep on him about it.

If possible, get mutual friends to do so too. You have a better chance of shifting someone like this if he hears it from several people.

The way to stop election fraud is to exercise your vote and to be loud and demanding that the count be full, fair, open, and checkable. And it's something you have to keep after, not just do once then forget about it.

[Telly Savalas]

83. Suggest to him that on the off-chance that "GOP vote stealing" hasn't improved in the last 4 years

it would probably be pretty fucking prudent to invest the few minutes of time it takes to vote.

Because there was a buzz from some elements about how the GOP was going to steal it back in 2008 also. How'd that work out?

[treestar]

57. Same in the end

So encourage negative people to vote AGAINST RMoney. Anyone who calls themselves liberal should be scared to death of an RMoney / RyanAynRand ticket. Think of the SCOTUS. It may overturn Roe, etc. No hope for single payer for decades, etc.

[Viva_Daddy]

7. Democrats best defence against Repubs stealing elections is a HUGE TURNOUT.

Not voting actually empowers the Republicans to steal elections. That's why they try to suppress voter turnout by using negative ads, voter ID laws, etc. etc. because those are the techniques they have used in the past to help them steal elections [remember 2000 and 2004?].

[Cha]

19. +100,000,000!

[LoisB]

20. I love your response.

Personally, I don't want to live under a Adelson/Koch/Ryan/Romney presidency. We have GOT to vote!!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

22. Right on

[Scuba]

32. Exactly.

[Rhiannon12866]

76. That's what they're trying to do now, and they've admitted it

It's quite blatant, trying to allow Democratic districts less time to vote, so that's why it's vital for all of us to get out and vote and take as many people with us as we can...

[WI_DEM]

9. "I read on the internet the republicans are going to steal it anyway' Idiot.

[Xyzse]

10. Thing is...

You do what you can.
You don't vote, you just gave up and didn't fight for it.

I'd rather fight than give up before the battle.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

12. They stole his vote, for sure

So he's kinda right. His fault though.

[FrenchieCat]

13. Let him know that since he isn't part of any solution,

That makes him and his friends the problem.

Putting it simply, let him know that not voting makes him a tool of the right wing.....
He is exactly the kind of person they want running around. Hope he enjoys serfdom!

[Viva_Daddy]

14. And another thing...

Driving is a "privilege" but voting is the MINIMUM DUTY of EVERY eligible voter in a Democracy.

[wildeyed]

15. That is dumb.

"They might try to steal the election, so I am not going to vote and just give them the outcome they want legitimately." Hmmmm.....

[JoePhilly]

16. Get him drunk and take him.

[dimbear]

34. This is the correct misdemeanor.

It's important enough to bend a few rules.

[JoePhilly]

45. Tell him its a slot machine ... after he votes for Obama, throw some quarters at him as if he won.

Because by voting for Obama, he did.

[amuse bouche]

17. Tell him to at least

get an absentee ballot. Then he only has to go to the mailbox.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

23. Instead of voting and making it harder to steal, he's going to hand his vote to them on a platter.nt

[BrainMann1]

24. DU is great

Have your friend read a few articles here in DU and look at a few of the videos about the GOP. If that doesn't make him understand that he needs to vote, tell him we lost by one vote.

[synapticwave]

25. live free or die man...

|

...He choose poorly

[AverageJoe90]

26. I largely disagree, but......

There ihas a somewhat disturbing trend: a number of key voters remain cynical about this country's future.....on the other hand, the overall enthusiasm has been better than in '08 because many more people have woken up to the GOP's B.S., especially thanks to the Teabaggers, and more recently, Rmoney, and I don't see that slowing down anytime soon.
Hopefully, we can wake up some of the cynical voters as well.

[SheilaT]

27. On election day in 1976

I was attending my local junior college. When I went to my psych class that morning, the professor started the class by saying,
"As I'm sure all of you know today is election. I certainly hope that each and every one of you is registered to vote, and that you will be exercising your franchise today. However, I want to remind you that a low voter turnout favors Republicans, so if you're a Republican, don't vote."

I was the only person in the class who actually got it.

In any case, share that with your friend, that a low voter turnout favors Republicans, so only if he wants a Republican president, should he not vote.

[nolabear]

29. Anyone who doesn't vote should be ASHAMED!

And I mean it. ASHAMED. You do not just sit there and take it. Hell, you're going to die too; might as well just end it now.

Your point is well taken though. I do think we need to fight learned helplessness as hard as we possibly can. Tell them they're doing exactly what the GOP is accusing them of doing--sitting there and receiving whatever is given to them rather than getting out there and working their asses off for what they want. We're better than that. Is that what they want their children to know aobut them? That they gave up without a fight? SHAME.

Martin Luther King didn't die for this. The Civil Rights Activists didn't die for this. Women didn't spend months in prison to have our rights just given away. How DARE anyone who believes in human rights and equality for all not fight in the only way they can to make these things so, I don't care if they set the damned polling places on fire when a Dem walks up.

Vote. VOTE! For the sake of your children, vote.

[ELI BOY 1950]

30. Have some balls

We all know what the right is doing, voter suppression , war against women etc...we must have some balls
and work hard and at the very least VOTE. If we don't vote the right accomplish exactly what they want to do.

the only way they steal the election is if we stay home...get you friend out...God bless America

[riverbendviewgal]

31. are there still exit polls

I know everyone won't say who they voted for but many do.

Could this be a way to keep a tally of what may be stolen?

[SunSeeker]

33. So sad. And it is particularly a prevalent view among progressives--the very people we need voting!

We need to really watch what we say in our posts (me too). Sometimes we carry on about all the voter suppression and voting machine shenanigans, but we forget to emphasize that these things only help Republicans when the election is very close. And if more people vote, it won't be close. If everyone turns out, Obama will win by double digits.

[progressivebydesign]

40. I'm tired of pampered people in their 20s who have no idea of Civil Rights struggles or the Draft

They live in this weird little privileged world.. where their entire life is defined by a phone, for god's sake. And they think as long as they get a wifi connection or 4G, their life is great. they have grown up without a draft. They will be the first to go to Iran when Mitt gets in. And I'm pretty sure it will be nothing like a video game.

[Retrograde]

46. Women of that age have never known a world where access to birth control was illegal

or severely limited. Nor do they know a world where gender discrimination is legal. Yeah, our grandparents probably said the same thing, but the 20-somethings that are my friends' children do seem to take their privileges for granted.

[jeff47]

47. You forgot the part about walking uphill both ways. (nt)

[Skittles]

58. it is not funny, jeff

[jeff47]

59. If you're gonna attack the entirety of the generations that followed you

then we get to attack the entirety of your generation. And "Nixon youth" significantly outnumbered the hippies. They powered the Reagan revolution and are now the main force behind the Tea Party.

Sounds like a wonderful fight, doesn't it? Perhaps we could go at each other's throats to prove just how much our group are the true believers and the others are utterly unworthy.

Or you could stop the divisive "back in my day" shit, and work to get something accomplished.

Heck, you might even think about taking a moment and asking those other generations what's they think. You might find out that "those kids today" aren't as dumb as your awful stereotype.

[Skittles]

62. WTF is your damage???

women are CONCERNED because one of the TWO MAJOR POLITICAL PARTIES in America has declared a WAR ON WOMEN. I am VERY concerned for the gals in the younger generations. GET OVER YOURSELF ALREADY!!!

[jeff47]

67. When you turn your concern into an attack on them, you aren't helping.

You aren't going to win over the disaffected among them by attacking them. And you are attacking the ones who are already activists.

You should direct your attacks at the people fighting women, instead of the women you see as insufficiently combative.

[Skittles]

72. again, GET OVER YOURSELF

I have not attacked ANYONE but you for being an ASS

[jeff47]

81. So you replied without bothering to read the thread?

Here's the post you're supporting:

I'm tired of pampered people in their 20s who have no idea of Civil Rights struggles or the Draft

They live in this weird little privileged world.. where their entire life is defined by a phone, for god's sake. And they think as long as they get a wifi connection or 4G, their life is great. they have grown up without a draft. They will be the first to go to Iran when Mitt gets in. And I'm pretty sure it will be nothing like a video game.

Now, please explain how that isn't an attack on people in their 20s.

Or do you think it doesn't count when you support the attack instead of conduct the attack?

[RBInMaine]

69. & then they'll piss and moan about the R's just like after 2010. Pathetic bunch of useless whiners.

[Rainngirl]

35. That is what they count on.

I believe that is part of their strategy. It's like when Faux repeats their lies over and over and over and over until their idiot followers believe them. If we keep hearing they're going to steal it (because we know they are capable of it, which is how we got Idiot Junior twice), we will give up and assume our votes don't count. They absolutely WILL steal it if we don't come out EN MASSE and in DROVES and defeat their stupid asses with our votes. We have to get everyone excited about voting. There can be no apathy. There can be no defeatist attitudes. There has to be steely determination that WE WILL NOT ALLOW THEM TO DO IT AGAIN. At least that's how I feel about it. I'll be damned if those assholes can have another election with all their money and thievery. Tell your friend that his not voting is what they are counting on and EVERYONE needs to join in with their votes. If each one person who feels defeated votes anyway, we'll succeed. Imagine how great that will feel!

[MNBrewer]

36. Sandra Day O'Connor should be proud of herself

[flobee1]

37. "I'm not voting because there is no point"

I feel the same way-but not for the same reason

big business owns our politicians.

Its not about right or left any more- they are both owned by the same people.
they say jump-both ask how high.

business is writing laws that benefit business. the rest of us scramble for the scraps that are left.

what's the point of writing to your congresscritter unless there is a hefty check to help them make up their mind?

do you really think politicians will vote away their own profit?

I just don't see the point anymore

[progressivebydesign]

39. don't vote. you get what you deserve. n/t

[qwlauren35]

73. You have to look at the "little" picture.

I know it can be discouraging to see how easily a politician can be bought. But you still have to fight the good fight. Vote because of the referenda on the ballot if nothing else. That's serious democracy in action. Vote for your state level senators and representatives. Vote for your school board representatives. Vote for your sheriff, vote for your state Comptroller. Vote for circuit court judges.

And be an informed voter. Check out the League of Women Voters, or go on-line and find out who is running and what they stand for AT THE LOCAL LEVEL. Only by growing tomorrow's leaders do we have a prayer for the future.

I will add about the Tea Party congresscritters ... many of them were not bought by lobbyists. Many of them were elected because they are owned by PEOPLE. Very far right leaning PEOPLE. We have the power to do the same.

Never, ever, ever let anyone tell you that it doesn't matter, because then you will not be there fighting for the few who have not been bought. They need your support.

[progressivebydesign]

38. A guy in his 20s? Perfect draft age for Romney's war with Iran.

Young men are waaay too cavalier now. They have no fucking clue how quickly they'd be shipped off to war when Romney and the defense contractors get in. The ONLY reason Bush didn't do the draft was because he knew that it would make his two wars unpopular, so he used and abused the National Guard, and the other branches of military with unheard of deployments...

Does your pal think that he would not be sent to war? Think again.

[NoPasaran]

42. Some people just have shit for brains

What can you do?

[renie408]

43. I agree. I hate all the negative, concerned bullshit.

I get so sick of the pessimists with their concern about it being stolen or the apathetic throwing it away. I don't believe in The Secret, but I do believe that if you look for something hard enough, you can make it happen.

Being concerned is how some people feel involved. Talking about being concerned is how some people get attention. The thing is, with an event which has yet to occur (especially an election with the polling going like it is with this one), either outcome is just as likely. Why not be POSITIVE? What have you got to lose? Maybe being concerned makes people feel smarter or more 'in the know' or something, I don't know.

I just know it is really, really annoying.

[eridani]

44. Tell him that if Obamas' margin is big enough we win despite theft

Up to him to help create that margin. After all, that's what happened in 2008. (And I wish Dems had made more of a stink about irregularities instead of just taking the win.)

[TeamPooka]

48. Tell him they won't need to steal it if he just gives it to them giftwrapped...

which is what the GOP would like.

[ellisonz]

49. The narrative of this election: overwhelming Democratic Victory.

A man can hope...

[Surya Gayatri]

51. Rachel Maddow says it best in a 30 sec. ad on MSNBC:

"The RW's strategy is to suppress voting. If you don't vote, you're following their agenda."
(rough paraphrase)

[otohara]

52. Disenfranchising Himself

the GOP thanks him!

I got into it with my son's friend on Facebook - he's the head of a pretty popular band and he posted one of these "voting makes no difference" bullshit. The posts that followed were all "yeah" from the 20+ somethings. They all live in N.C. where they did not vote in the recent special election where 60% voted against same sex marriage.

He ended up pulling the post - I won the debate!!!

I later found out, he regretted not voting in the special election.

[mojo2012]

53. Living in Utah....

I live in Utah too and yes it may seem your vote doesn't count with 93% of the state being Republican. In 2008, I put a Obama sign in my yard and had a Obama coffee cup at work. Yes, I was treated like a leper and some stopped talking to me. My VOTE counted, maybe not in UT, but in the overall scheme of things.
Your friend needs to know that there are really quite a few Democrats in UT and there are events that support activities to help President Obama win the fight. I encourage your friend to attend one if anything to understand how important it is he vote and how he can get involved (if he would like). http://www.barackobama.com/state/ut
I think there are a lot of people who won't admit they believe President Obama should continue as our president, but are afraid to go against the church and their Republican friends/family. And sure, there are people who are voting for Romney no matter what even at the expense of putting their families in jeopardy as far as social services and finances. Shame on them for not standing up and getting the facts; I say to your friend, shame on him for not voting. No one can complain about how bad things are if Romney and Ryan gets into the White House if they don't vote. It's a right we have, to be part of the process and we should never take it for granted. Romney/Ryan are hoping that there are tons of Democrats feel as your friend does and by doing so, we are fulfilling their dream.

[stlsaxman]

54. not "defeatist"- it's lazy and stupid. NOTHING should persuade anyone

from "giving away" their sacred franchise.

sorry to be so harsh but this just makes me furious.

[Drunken Irishman]

61. It makes me furious as well...but what can I do?

I've guilt him...shamed him...it's his call.

He does not think Obama is going to win because he's convinced, from what he's read online, that they will steal it. He's seem the blog posts on the left that this election is going to be stolen and has concluded voting would be irrelevant...his vote won't count.

But I mean, I can't blame him in some respects. I see it here every day...people claiming they're going to steal it. That mindset sinks in and damns those who aren't hardcore voters. Why vote if the results are already decided? The issue is trying to convince him the election won't be stolen...but I can't because he constantly reads that it will.

[stlsaxman]

65. stop worrying about him, unless he's special and his vote counts more than anyone elses.

concentrate on yourself. go to a swing state nearby and volunteer to work phones or go door-to-door.

why not battle your defeatism with labor?

though i must commend you for trying to inspire your friend to vote- keep trying.

[treestar]

55. Is it all that hard to go and vote?

It is not some major inconvenience with that as a good enough excuse! Geez, some people!

[Drunken Irishman]

60. Clearly it is to some, or voter turnout would be higher than it is...

Even in '08, turnout couldn't hit 60% nationally...which is damning for how important that election was.

[treestar]

64. Maybe it's a long drive

Though that would affect red areas more

[jenmito]

63. Tell your friend that Romney/Ryan turned off SO many people, including a little

"interest group" known as WOMEN, they won't be ABLE to steal the election. The only place they beat us is among white less-educated males.

[SmittynMo]

66. The GOP agenda

is apparently working for them if this is how people truly feel. Spreading lies and fear is their motto. Have your friend spend a few moments researching what the candidates stand for. It's pretty simple. If you want higher taxes, screwing the middle class, support racism and lies, no budget, the slamming of womens rights, then vote republican. Obama's record speaks for himself. My opinion is he's good for the country, and a true humanitarian.

You can always refer to this list.
http://obamaachievements.org/list

As for the MSM, remind him that rich millionaires are supporting the right and will stop at nothing to get their racism, hate, and fear out. They use the MSM to do this. So tell him to vote his conscience. And remember, a vote is never wasted.

As for stealing the elections, some of this is true. The right stands for crooked practices. Anything to suppress the vote. The fix is to get these people out and pay the 10-15 dollar for a legitimate ID card. I wish we could start a fund to help them out.

[RBInMaine]

68. Your friend is being STUPID. Stupid is as stupid does, or as stupid DOESN'T.

[johnlucas]

70. I don't know why he thinks Romney's gonna win cheat or no cheat. Romney cannot beat Obama.

Even IF the Republicans cheat, there's no way in hell that Obama will lose this election.
The demographics are against Romney. The Republican Party/'Conservative' Philosophy is dissolving on the national scene (still a long way to go on the regional scene though).

Yeah yeah yeah I'm being 'overconfident'.
No I'm being real.
It would be MORE in the bag if Obama showed any balls those first 2 years & knocked down those easy-to-defeat obstructionists.
But even a half-assed Obama can crush Romney in November.

Too much worrywart crap goes on on these boards.
And it doesn't matter if Romney out-moneys Obama. It will be money flushed down the toilet when Obama wins.

If you're gonna worry about something worry about this: How can we get Obama & the Democratic Party to become Strong Progressives once they DO get in there? And how quickly can the Republican Party be dismantled on the regional scene once they take on this Strong Progressive stance?

That's where my mind is focused. The Republicans have never been hard to defeat. The Democrats just don't FIGHT.
John Lucas

[bigwillq]

71. A lot of folks are disillusioned by politics

Can't really blame them.


I have voted in every election since I was of legal age, and I will continue to do so. But can't really blame your friend for having this attitude. Politics suck sometimes.

Sometimes I feel like it doesn't matter, even when I vote for the DEMS.

[johnnyrocket]

74. They can shave the numbers, but IF EVERYONE WHO COULD VOTE DID VOTE....

Obama would win in a massive landslide by 15-20 points.

That's what you need to tell this person, you can't steal a landslide.

VOTE!

[Rhiannon12866]

75. K&R! Excellent point and well said...

After the 2004 election, which shocked me so much I felt sick, I'm certainly anxious, but there are no excuses if I don't vote...

[graham4anything]

77. Find 5 people to register and take them to vote in Nov. for every person who won't vote

for every person who won't vote (and is 100% a democrat) get 3 others to sign up who will vote

on election day

find 5 people (who are democrats) who maybe can't get to the poll and drive them there and
pass this down to others.

and if you know someone who maybe won't vote for Obama, well, pass that person by and convince them Obama already won, therefore their vote isn't needed, and supress the repub./libertarian/teaparty vote. (LOL).

remember,Obama is leading much bigger than the rightwing polls state. (I would suggest he is leading in the popular by 7, and has over 330 electoral votes or way more than that).
Telling people that might get the other side to feel their vote is a waste.

The dirty little secret out there is, Obama has won reelection and the Karl Rove's know it.(from their internal polls, which tend to be the most accurate and not published).
(Hell, even Rush Limbaugh in a moment of shocking honesty yesterday it seems said America will survive another four years of Obama, so he too knows Obama has it won.)

anyone voting 3rd party or sitting on their hands and not voting, is voting for Mitt Romney.
Tell that to your friend.

[Bette]

78. Apathy

Apathy is not what we need right now, however, it IS what THEY need to pull off a win.
There is a reason that Congress approval is so low, it's all by design. If they can turn enough people off with their insanity, people will begin to figure there is no point. Just like your friend. Yes, it's another form of voter suppression...but even worse, it's a plan to remove all your voting rights ASAP. Then with the low voter turnout, they will claim "see, the people don't care enough to try anymore', so therefore, the people don't deserve the right to vote, to have their voices heard, they have no opinion. Until you do and it's too late by then to change the laws that will be enacted AGAINST the people.
I'm surprised people in your age group feel this way. You have all the information at your fingertips, to research the miles of crap out there, to find the truth and to find a way to believe we do matter, we have rights we want to protect. We have voices we want heard, we have ideas of how we want to live, ideas of how to progress in this country, not to go backward.
The republicon party is dangerous to america and we cannot allow them to continue to walk all over us, they can't steal the election if there's a huge margin of difference. But they may have a better chance at that with a very close margin, that would be a shame. Because of defeatist attitudes, because their 'divide and conquer' plans. Don't let this happen, join us in the fight of our lives, right now!

[emsimon33]

79. Tell him that they can only steal 5% after that it is too obvious, thus

everyone must vote to get over the 5% threshold.

[longship]

80. There are more than a few "stolen election" trolls here

According to them, Democrats never lose any election. If a Democrat loses it must be that Republicans stole the election. This is a meme that began in 2000 when the Republicans certainly gamed the very close presidential election in FL. Forever since then, every election that Dems lost have been stolen.

These people remind me of the 9/11 troothers. They have many arguments, none of which are backed by anything other than anecdotal evidence. I get very frustrated about them, and I normally don't open that can of worms.

Here's the secret. If enough people vote, nobody can game the system. So the stolens should get the fuck out in the field and get people to the polls on election day so that there will not be a contest close enough to so-call steal.

[ilikeitthatway]

82. By not voting, they are voting

for a possible administration worse than Bush.