I've changed my mind.

[Agschmid]

It's probably clear that I am a bit more undecided than even I thought I was at first. I've now volunteered for two different campaigns and enjoyed my time with both groups, I've donated to three campaigns (not much $$$ but some).

This has been a very interesting cycle for me as I feel strongly for two of the five main candidates.

I've had the pleasure as a student in Vermont, and Vermont resident of working directly with Bernie Sanders and my experiences have only been positive. I've also had the pleasure of voting for Sanders and helped him get elected to the US Senate.

I've also had the pleasure to have had several interactions with Hillary Clinton over the last decade, and in the past three weeks I've seen her three times, and contrary to what you hear I haven't paid $2700 to make it happen.

I general both of these candidates are great, and have good records on most issues. However at this time I've decided throw my support behind one, and that is as it turns out Hillary Clinton. I'm pretty excited about this, and I hope that I can keep working to get whomever ends up winning the primary elected in the general. And no my decision had nothing to do with anyone's supporters and everything to do with who I think can win this in 2016.

Let's all keep working to make sure whomever our nominee is, wins.

Wining in 2016 is what matters!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. Our party is only strengthened by having folks such as yourself in it./nt

[lovemydog]

122. Very much agree!

[Gothmog]

2. I have contributed to Clinton also

The key thing is to win in 2016

[Scootaloo]

3. By what mechanism do you beleive the Republcians will win, if Sanders were the nominee?

And how will Clinton manage to overcome whatever that is?

[Agschmid]

5. An election is never decided before the vote...

Not matter who the nominee is we all need to work to make sure they win. And it will take work.

[Scootaloo]

8. I'm just trying to learn how you came to the conclusion that made your mind

And no my decision had nothing to do with anyone's supporters and everything to do with who I think can win this in 2016

This carries the assumption that other Democrats can't beat the Republicans, or that Clinton has some special "something" that gives her the ability to overcome Republicans where every other Democrat would fail.

I keep hearing the argument that Clinton is the only one who can beat the republcians, and you seem a really reasonable dude(?), so I'm hoping to find out why that is.

[Agschmid]

16. In my opinion, which I'm entitled to.

I think she can win the GE.

However I will absolutely WORK, DONATE, and VOTE for whomever the nominee is.

For me her debate performance was very good, and that stood out to me as something that will help in the GE. I also think she has been tested, and tested again, and I'm not so sure the others have or would pass that test.

But it is what it is, we all will have different opinions here, and that's okay. That's why we have a primary.

I think I'm pretty reasonable, most of the time, thanks

[Scootaloo]

20. Didn't say you weren't.

Why the hell do people get so defensive why I ask why they think Clinton's our only chance against the republicans? I mean... you're saying it, I gotta assume there's a reason

[Agschmid]

31. Sorry for the defense.

[Scootaloo]

149. Well, for what it's worth

I was just hoping to get an answer to that question. Ah well.

And the people downthread calling you a liar are acting an ass.

[Agschmid]

150. Thanks for that.

[Bubzer]

267. It's difficult to decide what criteria to vote by.

Some are choosing to vote for who they think can win, some are voting for who they think has the best chance of winning (based on the fear-based mantra of "anything is better than a republican&quot , others are choosing their candidate based on what they want to see happen for the US. There are tons of deciding factors, but those seem to be the big ones.

I can't say I'm not a little disappointed you chose Hillary. But, I'm sure you have your reasons... I just hope they are well supported, whatever they may be.

[DFW]

271. From the wording of the OP

I got the implication that the OP meant that in their opinion HRC had the best (i.e. not the only) chance of winning the general not the only chance. Personally, I think that if the Republicans don't come up with someone better than they have so far (or--unless one of them is far better than they seem so far), our candidate is the next president no matter who it is. Like 2008, I think this primary battle is being fought so intensely because it is a contest not just for the nomination, but for the White House.

Sure, the Republicans will put up a fierce media battle, but even a gold-plated Lada won't drive any faster or smoother than a Lada with a single coat of green paint (or, with a nod to Belmondo, "rose avec des étoiles vertes&quot . Their problem, in a nutshell:

All the Kochs' money and all the Kochs' men
Found no one whose I Q was higher than ten.

[Agschmid]

283. Good last sentence, I love it.

[Snotcicles]

121. The PUMA mechanism, but on steroids this time. nt Edited to add IMO

Last edited Sun Oct 18, 2015, 04:01 PM - Edit history (1)

[Agschmid]

130. How does my stand show "Party Unity My Ass"?

All I've done is say how I will support the nominee no matter who that is...

[Snotcicles]

139. It doesn't my bad. That is my theroy. If hillary can win why can't Bernie?

I edited that to add IMO.

[Agschmid]

145. Well even though I have a position here...

It doesn't mean I'm right, but I have decided that again IMO she has a better chance. It still remains to be seen if I am right.

[Gothmog]

144. Maybe you can answer this question?

How will Bernie Sanders compete in a general election where the Kochs will be spending $887 million and the RNC candidate will be spending another billion dollars??? Clinton will be able to use super pac money but Sanders will be defenseless and under financed without super pacs. I have asked this same question a number of times and have yet to receive an answer that would cause me to consider supporting Sanders.

[merrily]

4. LOLOL. What a shocker!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. I thought he or she was for Bernie for what's it worth./nt

[merrily]

7. LOL!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. I am constantly looking for allies and I didn't consider him or her one.

eom

[Agschmid]

11. Wel now you've got one.

[merrily]

12. Neither did the Bernie Sanders Group.

12th person banned from it after he attempted to lead it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=about&forum=1280

You have to look at the totality of the posts. Not only the part that says, "I am a Bernie supporter" or "I am undecided." Then goes on to defend Hillary, but never Bernie. I've discussed this with Agschmid before. His reply? "It is what it is."

[Agschmid]

32. I'll stick with it...

It is what it is.

I've changed my mind.

[DhhD]

70. Yes, Warren and Clinton have nothing in common but after two years they are still women

in politics. Warren will never move away from backing Glass-Steagal as Clinton has done.

Clinton will always back, bank privatization. Inequality is separating the nation in to the 95% against the 5%. Clinton supported public law-FAIR in 1998, and has never changed into a Progressive. She is still the Populist 1% running to re-adjust the over reach of capitalism, only capitalism has slide too far to the Right taking Clinton with it. If Clinton did get the nomination, she would have to move Left into Warren territory. I believe that knowing this, will not happen, has allowed you to readjust your support of a just cause (not a lost cause).

Hooray for Democrats, all of us. Now if we can just get everybody out to vote.

[Agschmid]

73. Bernie has forced Clinton to the left, and that's a good thing.

Can't argue that point.

[AzDar]

94. Correction: Bernie has forced Hillary to PRETEND to move to the Left. Big difference.

How can anyone trust ANY of her positions?

[cprise]

126. I can trust this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=698389

[Fred Sanders]

128. "Trust" comment again?....the last resort when the facts are not aligned with beliefs.

[jfern]

137. Her honest and trustworthy numbers are terrible

Typically she polls about 35% yes, 60% no there

[cantbeserious]

132. ^^^ THis ^^^ - You Nailed The Underlying Fraud And Duplicity Of HRC

eom

[LiberalArkie]

40. Results

On Sun Oct 18, 2015, 12:40 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Neither did the Bernie Sanders Group.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=697825

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

These insults against a DUer, who simply disagrees with the poster, are uncalled for.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Oct 18, 2015, 12:47 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I do not see any personal attack.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: How sad the attempt to silence words of truth. The post is proven true. QED
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm not seeing any insults.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yes, this is a person attack. There's too much of this stuff where where someone researchers what someone else said and casts aspersions. It's mostly part of the Hillary-Bernie battle (even though most Hillary supporters have been driven away from DU). At any rate, merrily is attacking Agschmid directly - which has no policy or primary value. Hide it.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Cannot reply to automated messages

[merrily]

97. Thank you. The replies of every supporter of Bernie on this thread are as unanimous as it gets.

Even the only juror who voted no and explained the vote said it was based on research, LOL! Well, not so much research as having some posts trigger my bs meter, then noticing that every post I saw after that confirmed my initial impression, as did confronting the poster. Not something I pulled out of my ear by any means.

[Agschmid]

99. Another accusation of lies.

The good thing is I know where I stand, and I know how I made that decision.

[bvf]

100. Juror #7 needs a nap, I think. n/t

[BeanMusical]

265. Yes, I don't understand most of what they were trying to say.

Also they misspelled "casts asparagus".

[ronnykmarshall]

176. How cute ....

the "fair" jury members post the results of the non-biased system they on to promote their own political preference to further attack the person that altered the post?

Wow. I guess there's no reason to alert a post.

[whatchamacallit]

10. Never bought that

I love the last minute Warren blitz before this oh-so-surprising-announcement.

[merrily]

15. I love the dramatic announcement, too!

[Agschmid]

34. I'm a gay man.

We do drama well.

It is what it is.

[merrily]

36. Not really. Hetero "former Bernie supporters" have made dramatic announcements that

Last edited Sun Oct 18, 2015, 02:21 PM - Edit history (1)

surprised no one who actually supported Bernie.

[FLOATER]

67. So you take to heart on what Clinton said about LGBT's 11 years ago?

She didn't believe in us then, why should we believe on what she said?

[ronnykmarshall]

179. Oh wow look a newbee

and first post is an attack. Nice. You'll love it here. Hillary supporters are shit and Bernie supporters walk on water. Welcome.

[Bubzer]

269. You're deflecting. Instead, I would invite you to answer the question. It's a legitimnate one.

[Bubzer]

270. Please disregard ronnykmarshall's comment.

People here can sometimes get as contentious as a room full of angry liberals and conservatives. They're good people, just sometimes they get a little too impassioned about their position.

Welcome to DU

[ronnykmarshall]

285. I can speak for myself sweetie.

Welcome dear.

I'm sure you'll just think this place is the cats ass!!

[cprise]

107. We will have plenty more drama if she wins:

This Bush-ite co-authored a roadmap for regime change in the Middle East (developed the rationale for invading Iraq, etc...)

But Exhibit A for what Robert Kagan describes as his “mainstream” view of American force is his relationship with former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who remains the vessel into which many interventionists are pouring their hopes. Mr. Kagan pointed out that he had recently attended a dinner of foreign-policy experts at which Mrs. Clinton was the guest of honor, and that he had served on her bipartisan group of foreign-policy heavy hitters at the State Department, where his wife worked as her spokeswoman.

“I feel comfortable with her on foreign policy,” Mr. Kagan said, adding that the next step after Mr. Obama’s more realist approach “could theoretically be whatever Hillary brings to the table” if elected president. “If she pursues a policy which we think she will pursue,” he added, “it’s something that might have been called neocon, but clearly her supporters are not going to call it that; they are going to call it something else.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/16/us/politics/historians-critique-of-obama-foreign-policy-is-brought-alive-by-events-in-iraq.html

Clinton proclaimed that she “too deeply concerned about Iranian aggression and the need to confront it. It’s a ruthless, brutal regime that has the blood of Americans, many others and including its own people on its hands.” Even worse, she said, “Its political rallies resound with cries of ‘Death to America.’ Its leaders talk about wiping Israel off the face of the map, most recently just yesterday, and foment terror against it. There is absolutely no reason to trust Iran.” She repeated that claim several times for emphasis: “They vow to destroy Israel. And that’s worth saying again. They vow to destroy Israel.”

She vowed that in dealing with Iran, she will be tougher and more aggressive than Reagan was with the Soviet Union: “You remember President Reagan’s line about the Soviets: Trust but verify? My approach will be distrust and verify.” She also explicitly threatened Iran with war if they fail to comply: “I will not hesitate to take military action if Iran attempts to obtain a nuclear weapon, and I will set up my successor to be able to credibly make the same pledge.” She even depicted the Iran Deal as making a future war with Iran easier and more powerful:

Should it become necessary in the future having exhausted peaceful alternatives to turn to military force, we will have preserved and in some cases enhanced our capacity to act. And because we have proven our commitment to diplomacy first, the world will more likely join us.

https://theintercept.com/2015/09/09/hillary-clinton-goes-militaristic-hawkish-think-tank-gives-militaristic-hawkish-speech/

Clinton is a shrill, two-faced war monger, who would not dare to repeat that Bush-era falsehood standing next to Sanders and O'Malley at a public debate.

Perhaps, after living through the Iraq war days, you feel this sort of thing doesn't really affect you. In that case it sounds like a very good place to be...

[Agschmid]

111. It's an election there will be drama no matter what.

If Sanders is the nominee there will be all kinds of stuff flung at him as well. We will all have to work to defeat it, and make sure the lies the republicans spread don't stick.

[cprise]

123. Do you think what I just posted

about Clinton are lies?

[Agschmid]

129. Did I say I did?

I just said we better be ready to fight if we want to win this thing. For all our candidates, taking it lying down on the mat isn't an option.

[cprise]

131. I won't fight for a war monger. eom

[Agschmid]

146. Well then considering all our candidates have at some point voted for war...

We better find a new candidate for all of us.

[cprise]

161. That is a cheap rationalization for supporting someone who still

pushes falsehoods as a pretext for war.

At least in the case of Afghanistan there was Al Queda and it was a case of the US itself having been already attacked. As Bernie said, he is anti-war but not a pacifist.

[Agschmid]

162. Anyone who is rational is anti war.

Including Hillary Clinton.

[cprise]

163. Rational people don't let words and actions like hers slide. eom

[NCTraveler]

18. I did as well. Nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. He or she just avoided the flame wars, maybe that's why there is uncertainty./nt

[merrily]

38. Not avoided. Just always took Hillary's side and never Bernie's.

Don't know why you won't believe me.

[ronnykmarshall]

181. Don't know why you won't believe me!

That's a scream!!

Do you have proof of this persons posts and thoughts? We'll wait for you to fire up your stalk-o-matic 3000 that makes up "the list" of people on DU that don't meet the approval of the Bernie camp.

Thank you.

[Agschmid]

200. I'm not worried.

I know where I stand, and how I got there.

And today I stand with Hillary.

[merrily]

242. Proof of posts? They're on the board. Anyone can see them. No stalking. I just saw them on the

board as they got posted over time, same way you saw my posts on this thread. Also discussed it with Agschmid on the board.

[madfloridian]

25. I think they were a mod at the Bernie forum.

And sort of in charge at first. ??

[Agschmid]

35. See up thread I got the boot almost immediately.

Yet I still supported Bernie.

Clearly it wasn't about that for me.

[bvf]

103. Don't flatter yourself. You didn't even make the top 10.

[merrily]

43. Tried to take charge. Got outmaneuvered, then blocked. See Reply 12.

I had nothing to do with it. That all happened while my computer was being repaired.

[madfloridian]

46. What puzzles me...

is that I have not seen them post in support of Bernie. I wanted to verify my thoughts on this...and when I searched here with last month option most of the posts had been self-deleted. So I am really confused.

[Agschmid]

48. I decided to quit, clearly that didn't happen.

[merrily]

49. You've never seemed like the confused type to me, madfloridian.

[TheFarS1de]

165. You are not alone in this observation .

the narrative does not fit the reality .

[CoffeeCat]

262. So much smoke and mirrors...

...in the Clinton campaign. It's barely tolerable anymore.

[Agschmid]

47. If by "tried to take charge"...

You mean posted the poll which helped get Autumn elected lead mod then sure...

Or maybe you mean wrote the draft SOP for the group which is still being used today...

Or maybe you mean helped with the media posts and wrote the text so it could be easily replaced by the person who wanted to post those...

Then sure, that's me taking charge. Guilty as charged.

[merrily]

51. I mean more than that, but I am not going to debate it. Posts by other Bernie Group members

speak for themselves. I stand by reply 12. Heck you even tried to control after you were blocked.

[Agschmid]

53. I'm not a bad guy, and I'm not a liar.

[merrily]

55. I haven't called you either one. You're the one tossing those words around.

[Agschmid]

62. Your implication that I wasn't sincere in my support of Bernie...

Is an implication I lied.

Something I didn't do. But again we aren't going to get anywhere with this, so I'm comfortable dropping it if you are?

[madfloridian]

115. All I wanted to know is why you have deleted so many of your past posts?

It's an honest question because I don't ever remember you being in support of Bernie.

[Agschmid]

118. Because I thought about quitting DU, and I did for about a week.

But it's hard to quit DU.

I only deleted a few weeks worth, I got tired/bored of doing it after that.

[Andy823]

219. So did I.

I guess one never knows.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

221. Lots of byzantine intrigue on this board.

eom

[Puglover]

24. OMG I need something to calm down.

I am simply gobsmacked.

[merrily]

27. I know, right? Every bit as shocking as the others who had a "change" of heart or who

finally made up their minds.

The only myteries for me:

What was the point of the pretense?

Whom did they think they were fooling?

[Agschmid]

37. Do you know me?

Do you follow me personally on Twitter, or Instagram, or Facebook?

You don't.

I wasn't acting with pretense I was a voter who was excited by a new candidate who was bringing something different to the table. I've made a decision that I am okay with, I don't think I need to be called a liar repeatedly throughout the thread.

It's not productive.

[merrily]

41. I've read your posts here I formed an opinion from them. I even discussed it with you. Lo and

behold, my opinion manifests.

You post an OP, you take your chances on what the replies are, just as does everyone else.

[Agschmid]

42. I'm aware.

[ronnykmarshall]

187. Beware of boiled bunny

aka Glenn Close in "Fatal Attraction"

[url=https://flic.kr/p/z1DE6z][img][/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/z1DE6z]

[chervilant]

253. Well, you just squeaked by...

On Sun Oct 18, 2015, 10:21 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Beware of boiled bunny
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=699278

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Ok. This is over the top. He accused her of having a "stalkamatic" up thread . And is now accusing her of being a crazy stalker.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Oct 18, 2015, 10:32 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Among other things, the offending picture is way too big. Big time margin****.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is sexist and an inappropriate slam on Clinton supporters.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

I won't tell you which is my vote, but I will tell you that you are the newest member of my IL.

[BeanMusical]

264. Juror #6 is a little bit confused.

"an inappropriate slam on Clinton supporters."

Ronny is a Clinton supporter and his post was a slam on a Bernie supporter. D'oh!

[ronnykmarshall]

287. So much for the jury system!

[ronnykmarshall]

286. What's an IL?

[zeemike]

158. When I read the headline and saw who it was.

I did not need to read the text to know what the decision was.
And I don't know much about the poster except that I never believed for a minute that he would support Sanders.

There were lots of clues.

But the point of doing it is like child psychology...or herding people...if someone does it others will follow if they are insecure in their own ability to think for themselves.
I don't think it works well on DU.

[ronnykmarshall]

197. Is he on "the list"?

Do y'all keep a record of people that are not up to approval?

[Agschmid]

199. I was #12 on the list.

[zeemike]

250. No but there are lots of list out there.

Every protected group has one...and if you stumble in there your name will be added.
I was reminded by a poster that I was on one of them...and the odd thing is they reminded me I was one of the first one added.

I could be on more than one, but I am careful now not to post to those groups.

[Agschmid]

198. I guess I should add insecure, to the liar thing.

Again it is what it is.

[zeemike]

244. No it is the insecure that follow not lead.

And you clearly want to lead.

But "is what it is" is an interesting meme. One that implies acceptance of things the way they are.
Imagine where we would be if we adopted that 40 years ago.

[Agschmid]

247. I've accepted the "is what it is" meme

Because I don't control what people think or say about me, I only control my own actions. When it comes to politics and policies that certainly isn't my position.

[artislife]

26. Uh huh.

Well, that is the beauty of this election. We are still free to choose.

Great, lets everyone vote for who they believe in!

[merrily]

30. I have zero problem with that. The mystifying bit is the initial attempt at pretense.

[artislife]

79. Yup

I agree...completely.

[Agschmid]

39. Yup.

[MissDeeds]

83. +1000

Who didn't know that from the get-go?

[Agschmid]

85. Here is another accusation I lied.

Not sure why that's the popular go to here?

[MissDeeds]

89. I never said you lied

But I think you'll be very much at home with camp weathervane.

[Sheepshank]

98. It's a defense mechanism

throwing someone under the bus, sour grapes, and maybe even covering up a sense of betrayal. Regardless of the basis for these ugly responses, it's all a reflection of these Bernie supporters and not a reflection of the veracity of your words.

You have always been measured and honest in your responses. It is one of the reasons I've always had the utmost respect for you, even when you pronounced yourself a Bernie supporter.

[sufrommich]

13. Welcome aboard,now put on your flame proof clothes,

you'll need them here.

[SunSeeker]

147. Indeed.

[Persondem]

14. Nice. And I certainly agree that

"Winning in 2016 is what matters!" and that Clinton has the best chance of winning the GE.

If Sanders is the nominee I will gladly, support, campaign and vote for him.

[Agschmid]

255. Which scandal is this?

The non existent email one?

The manufactured republican one?

Or...?

[classykaren]

275. How about the Clinton Trust fund. There's a winner

[classykaren]

274. I agree

[NCTraveler]

17. Excellent people to pick from...

And solid arguments can be made for each one. Your participation is impressive. I need to do more than I currently do.

[NervousGuy]

19. Well, your choice, and seeing that you're going for platitudes and fluff, good luck. Sincerely.

[Agschmid]

21. I disagree.

[SidDithers]

33. ...

Sid

[DemocratSinceBirth]

91. I have a question. Since you were on MIRT what is the easiest way to reach them?

Thank you in advance.

[Agschmid]

92. Just check the list in announcements and PM on of them...

I'm on it, even though I stepped away.

[SidDithers]

141. Best way is to check the new MIRT list...

In the Announcements Group, then send a DU Mail to someone on the current MIRT team.



Sid

[MoonRiver]

22. Your reasons for supporting Hillary over Bernie completely mirror my own.

Welcome aboard!

[calimary]

50. And mine.

Glad to hear this, Agschmid! I know you put a lot of thought and study and observation into this. Thank you. And welcome to Team Hillary!

[lunamagica]

28. Very thoughtful post and explanation

Welcome aboard!

[Thinkingabout]

29. You are a great supporter, love your post though not always a Hillary supporter you still posted

with respect.

[Agschmid]

52. Sure if that's how you want to see it.

[Agschmid]

112. Well so far I've only "flip" and I doubt I'll "flop".

[procon]

45. Its always boiled down to who can actually win.

Everything else is just a delusional fantasy.

I like both Sanders and Clinton, and although I might like them for their separate and unique strengths, I'm well grounded in reality. That's pragmatism, and true of almost everything we do in life. We are all trying to decide who will be able to improve our lives and give us the best shot at better future. Wishful thinking aside, people look to associate themselves with winners. In an election that means most of us will end up voting for the candidate who can actually get across the finish line and deliver the goods as promised, not the candidate that just makes us feel good.

[bowens43]

236. Really? So any one with a (D) next to their name is good enough?

That's how we got in this fucking mess in the first place. If all that counts is 'winning' then we have already lost.

[procon]

266. The alternative is a Republican in the White House.

Compared to that, yes, winning is the only thing that matters.

[saidsimplesimon]

272. I am also pragmatic.

I prefer Bernie's stance and record on all the issues.

It boils down to who can get the most people to the polls to vote in the General.

[procon]

276. No, first comes securing the nomination at the Democratic convention.

And that is an enormous challenge for a candidate who maintains that he is not a Democrat and has separated himself from the establishment Democrats who make up the powerful bloc of superdelegates whose votes the winning nominee must secure to go on to compete in the general election.

That's the way the party system has been run for a long time. We allowed it. It needs to be changed, but that's not going to happen between now and the convention.

[ejbr]

54. I don't mean to dismiss your decision

as indeed, it is yours to make. However, I cringe when I read this : "And no my decision had nothing to do with anyone's supporters and everything to do with who I think can win this in 2016"

This seems to be the mantra of many Clinton supporters; not ideals, not principles, but who they believe can win. Given the state of the main stream media, I really can't blame you if that is your only criteria for voting.

Well, you and I can agree on pursuing a win for whichever Democrat gets the nomination.

[Agschmid]

57. I also agree with her on lots of policy as well.

Our candidates are pretty much aligned on most policies, yes there are some glaring differences on some... But not many.

So in some ways it does come down to who we think can win.

But like I said in the OP I will work for whoever I need to in the GE to ensure our party wins.

[ejbr]

61. I respect your decision n/t

[Agschmid]

63. Thanks.

And I respect yours as well.

[stonecutter357]

56. K&R!

[TM99]

58. You actually are trying to convince us you changed your mind?!

Now that is fucking funny!

You were about as committed to Sanders as MineralMan was, in other words, not at all.

You have defended her incessantly. You have knocked on Sanders supporters incessantly. It was so apparent to those who have watched you here in these boards that you were asked to resign as a Host of the Sanders group.

All I can do now is laugh.

[Agschmid]

68. I don't need to convince you of anything...

I know my own story, I make my decisions and have keep it civil. I hope others will respect my decisions and I know some will, some won't.

As I said up thread...

It is what it is.

[TM99]

69. You seem to be forgetting that

you have communicated your story all along.

The double messages were obvious to many even if they were not to yourself.

[SoapBox]

59. Ok....

I can't side with her big money and big power...I also do not trust her. She will change nothing, IF, she could get into office.

I am wholly convinced that she will lose in the general...Clinton dislike runs very, very deep and I think it's casually dismissed.

No more Bush and No more Clinton, in the White House.

Personally, I will also never, ever cast my ballot for her.

[840high]

71. Your last sentence says it for me, too.

[Agschmid]

75. If Sanders is the nominee I will do everything in my power to get him elected.

[DanTex]

60. Good post, and I agree, what matters is winning next November.

All the attacks you're getting for this... crazy!

[sufrommich]

64. There's much bitterness that can't be contained with some. nt

[Autumn]

65. Congratulations.

[Agschmid]

66. You and I we keep it civil, thank you.

[Autumn]

143. I have no animosity toward anyone who supports Hillary, that posts

here on this site.

[Puglover]

93. This is my favorite OP of the month.

Series.

[Agschmid]

96. How much does that subscription cost annually?

$24.99?

OP of the month club?

[Puglover]

105. Heh.

A STEAL at 24.99!

[Agschmid]

116. That's not bad I'll even be able to afford it on my salary.

Phew.

[Autumn]

154. Yeah it's a good one

I may have to renew my subscription now

[bl968]

72. Hillary Clinton vs Bernie Sanders

I just love all these "Bernie Sanders" supporters so publicly step up and who throw their support to Hillary Clinton. You can't support one, and then suddenly throw your support to the other. It just don't work that way. The candidates views are mutually incompatible.

Clinton is a corporatist candidate who takes full advantage of the flaws in the system, and who will defend the system rather than trying to fix it. Clinton mouths support for fixing citizen united but will she really do it. If elected will she step up and take action to do so? The answer is no! These are the people who own her lock, stock, and barrel.

Citigroup Inc $824,402
Goldman Sachs $760,740
DLA Piper $700,530
JPMorgan Chase & Co $696,456
Morgan Stanley $636,564
EMILY's List $609,684
Time Warner $501,831
Skadden, Arps et al $469,290
University of California $417,327
Sullivan & Cromwell $369,150
Akin, Gump et al $364,478
Lehman Brothers $362,853
21st Century Fox $340,936
Cablevision Systems $336,613
Kirkland & Ellis $329,141
National Amusements Inc $328,312
Squire Patton Boggs $328,306
Greenberg Traurig LLP $327,890
Corning Inc $322,450
Credit Suisse Group $318,120

They have bought and paid for her. They have her heart, mind, and soul. They will be who she will listen to as president not every day people like you and me. We just can't compete with money like that.

Anyone who thinks First Lady Clinton is the woman who is running for office today is sadly mistaken. Do not expect her to be the champion of healthcare, do not expect her to go out of her way to do anything for the average Americans in this country unless she feels it will get her re-elected.

Bernie Sanders wants to fix our broken system, and restore the inherent fairness that has been slowly eroded away from it. He will fight every day to keep his promises. He has 30 years of consistency to prove it.

[Agschmid]

76. .

I just love all these "Bernie Sanders" supporters so publicly step up and who throw their support to Hillary Clinton. You can't support one, and then suddenly throw your support to the other. It just don't work that way. The candidates views are mutually incompatible.

You can switch who you support, it's an election. This will happen a lot. And maybe you didn't watch the republican debate but our candidates are a whole other world compared to them... And are aligned on most major issues.

[bl968]

81. Mutually incompatible

Lip service is something a candidate does to attempt to draw supporters from someone else by claiming to support the same issues they support. There was a ton of lip service in that debate. You have to look at their records for the real story. Clinton's record makes clear she is paying lip service, it also makes clear what she will do once in office.

I call BS on your conversion, and this thread specifically. For the reasons stated in my message that you totally ignored, and will state again for the record that candidates views are mutually incompatible and it is flatly not possible for someone who supports Bernie Sanders and his positions to suddenly switch and decided to support Clinton.

I suggest people give your recommendation all due consideration for all it's worth, which is absolutely nothing.

[Agschmid]

82. And again we get personal.

It is par for the course around here.

[bl968]

88. We disagree on the relative value of your statement of choice of candidate

It's not personal, I simply stated my opinion that people should give the opinion stated in this thread the full value it deserves. Your post history makes one thing clear, you are, and always have been a Clinton supporter.

So when someone reads your message here and has not looked at your posts and believes that you decided to magically change your opinion. I want them to be aware of that fact, so they can do a little digging themselves and see for themselves.

[Agschmid]

90. So I'm a liar then?

That's just not correct, I supported Bernie and have donated and volunteered with him. I've met him and even got to vote for him several times and he is a great politician who has helped raise important issues in this election. Again should be clinch the nomination I will do everything in my power to get him elected to the presidency.

Luckily I don't live or die based on what people think of me on DU.

[Ron Green]

140. You're not a liar, you just don't get it.

This 2016 cycle is different from all others, including 2008. "Yes we can" turned out to be a slogan, and we are far beyond slogans now.

The candidacy of Bernie Sanders is different IN KIND, not degree, from that of Hillary Clinton. Your musings about working with this one and meeting with that one, as if to tell us you really "know" both candidates, are negated by the fact that you don't seem to understand how different is the democratic process Bernie is calling for. It's a different universe, and we may not be able to attain it. But for you, and others, and the media, to treat this contest in such a consumerist way shows that you don't understand the fundamental dynamic here.

By the way, although you don't live or die by what DUers think of you, our grandchildren will live or die by the outcome of this primary.

[Agschmid]

160. Well we feel the same...

This election is different, and it's a major one. Lots of things will be impacted by the outcome of the 2016 general election. No matter what I know our party will undoubtedly do a better job of handling most (if not all) issues. And I don't fault Obama, he was dealt a bad hand and actually did a whole lot of positive things while president.

And on some level we are both stuck with the decisions the votes of our grandparents made.

I also feel that your post if unfair, you agree I'm not a liar but then you continue on to assume I'm to naive to understand how my vote will effect the primary.

This has to stop.

Just because we don't agree it doesn't make me daft.

[SunSeeker]

101. Your innocuous observation got alerted on (I voted to Leave It of course).

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Sun Oct 18, 2015, 02:42 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

And again we get personal.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=698177

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Posts like this provide no value to the community. 

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Oct 18, 2015, 02:59 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: bogus alert. Krytan11c, Bernie Supporter.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It does provide a value, it points out the truth! Getting personal seems to be a normal action on DU, from the Clinton/Sanders camps, the pro-gun/anti-gun, the theists and non-theists!

Personal attacks keep happening and will continue to happen as long as DU members fight amongst themselves...
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I find this alert without any merit whatsoever. People we need to get real. This is an opinion and no one should be alerted for their opinion. 

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Agschmid]

104. Thanks.

I won't pretend I never get personal but it's usually pretty rare.

[Cha]

133. Wow.. now they're not even allowing to make the observation that someone is getting

"personal". While the one who is rude and insulting gets a free pass.

Thanks to the jury you were on for voting down the bogus alert, SunSeeker.

[leftofcool]

245. You can go away now.

[BeanMusical]

102. +1

[Cha]

74. It's been interesting reading your different posts, too, Agschmid.. we're fortunate to have you on

board.

[MannyGoldstein]

77. Me too!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251696485

Together, we shocked the world!



Regards,

TWM

[Agschmid]

87. Well all least we both can handle the heat.

From one #PreviousBernieBro to another.

[BeanMusical]

108. Lol! You're killing me!

[Fearless]

78. You've been decidedly pro Clinton across this board

What has changed?

[George II]

80. A well thought out, and wise, decision.

[William769]

84. Great post.

See you around the forums.

[BeanMusical]

113. Is he now allowed to go to The Political Pub?

[Autumn]

171. Yes he is.

[99Forever]

86. Oh wow!

I mean, who could have seen THAT coming?


I'm fucking shocked I tell ya!

SHOCKED I say.

[SunSeeker]

95. K & R

[DemocratSinceBirth]

109. This thread has mushroomed

[leftofcool]

110. A great decision. Glad to have you supporting Hillary.

[BooScout]

114. Glad to have you on Team Hillary!

[aspirant]

117. I am happy

you have finally found your real home

Best Wishes Aspirant

[Agschmid]

119. Thanks.

I'm sure I'll see you around.

[lovemydog]

120. I'm glad you're engaged in the process.

Thanks for working for both Sanders and Clinton. I respect that a lot. I love all the cool photos in your sig line. Hope you're enjoying a great weekend. Get out the vote!

[Agschmid]

127. Luckily I'm close to NH so I get to be very involved!

[lovemydog]

135. That's great. I know you'll be kind toward

both Sanders and Clinton supporters that you encounter in person. May you form and strengthen bonds of activism & humanity.

[aikoaiko]

124. Sad choice, but it is yours to make. Bernie wins if you vote for him.

Clinton supporters will welcome you with open arms.

[WIProgressive88]

125. Sad to see Bernie lose a supporter, and I disagree a bit on the issue of who can best win the

general election, but everyone has a right to make up his or her own mind, and I look forward to continuing to read your posts on DU. Cheers.

[riversedge]

134. Welcome. In solidarity

[Duval]

136. :) Winning in 2016!!

[raindaddy]

138. There is a growing number of people who don't think like this anymore

Last edited Mon Oct 19, 2015, 12:07 AM - Edit history (1)

Clinton and Sanders represents a fork in the road when it comes to the Democratic Party. One represents the Neoliberal facton that has taken control of the party, pro Wall Street, pro global corporations, luke warm labor support, screw the middle class etc.. The other represents traditional FDR Democratic Party populist principals.

This is the last election I'm voting for a candidate that runs as progressive and then fills their administration full of Wall Street and corporate insiders, and transforms into a moderate republican within a couple of months of occupying the White House.

If yet another Democratic president continues down the road of third way politics, I'm joining the droves of people who have abandoned the party in the last thirty years.

[Caretha]

246. Very thoughtful post raindaddy

I'm an old Duer...and an old Democrat. You said it very well. You should have have seen the DU boards back in the 'the days'.....

It was a real Democratic board then.

The truth is....

We get real change this time, or it won't ever happen, and it will be the last election worth voting in.

[raindaddy]

261. Thank you Caretha..

"We get real change this time, or it won't ever happen, and it will be the last election worth voting in."

It really does feel like that. If there was a slight window Bernie pried it open.
We're living in a country where the majority of it's citizens no longer believe either party represents their interests. Only 30% of Americans even identify with the Democratic Party and those numbers go down every year

How much longer can they continue to depend on progressives embracing another Reagan Democrat because anything is better than ultra right Republican whacko? Like Bernie is saying people are losing their faith in the system to represent their interests...

[WorseBeforeBetter]

142. Where have you "seen" Hillary three times in the past three weeks? (n/t)

[Agschmid]

148. Well...

Once in Boston, and twice in NH.

It's nice to be close to primary state.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

166. I don't keep up with her campaign schedule...

were you attending rallies with the masses or *salons*? Did you actually speak with her? What precisely convinced you to back her and not Sanders? (I haven't read through the thread again, you may have answered that...)

[Agschmid]

168. One was an event, two were rallies/speeches.

Four if you count the NHDPC but I heard all the candidates speak there.

[okasha]

233. In Texas, that's like driving from one county to another.

Welcome aboard, Agschmid!

[Agschmid]

234. Thanks, I'll post pics next time I see her.

[jberryhill]

151. Does the new one work any better?

[Agschmid]

152. And by the "new one" you mean?

[jberryhill]

153. You said you changed your mind

I got a good deal on a trade-in the last time I changed mine.

[Agschmid]

155. I'll let you know in about a week.

[jberryhill]

156. Good point

It can take a few days to break in a new one.

[Romulox]

157. Just as convincing as MineralMan's "conversion". nt

[Agschmid]

159. Again I'm getting called a liar.

Not sure why?

[artislife]

173. I think liar is a harsh word.

You how sometimes you have a friend who keeps going over a dilemma. They give all the pros and cons, all the plusses and minuses and aren't sure how they really feel.
And you sit back and listen to it a few times and wonder why they say they are still torn when it seems obvious to you.

I think this is the way it feels to me.

And yeah, those photos are way cool. I have to admire your love of art.

I hope that the person who follows President Obama cares deeply for this planet and fights hard for her and all the living creatures on her.

I think it should be Bernie, but that is obvious.

[Agschmid]

174. I respect your choice.

And again will do everything I can if he is the nominee to get him elected. Thanks for your words.

[m-lekktor]

167. HA, I never knew you were NOT a Hillary supporter!

I just always assumed you were one.

[Agschmid]

169. You know the phrase about making assumptions?

[AtomicKitten]

180. Which is why many said WTF?! when he wanted to host the Bernie group.

[Agschmid]

182. Again calling me a liar.

It's really frustrating.

I supported a candidate, I volunteered and donated for that candidate. Hell I even voted for that candidate to get him where he is... Yet I repeatedly get called a liar.

[AtomicKitten]

184. If I were to assign a descriptor, it would be that it's obviously theater.

In that vein, please to enjoy Lyle Lovett changing his mind.

"After a lot of thought, I'd like to reconsider. Please, if it's not too late, make it a cheeseburger."

[Agschmid]

186. What's obvious?

That I now support Hillary?

If that's your point I sure hope it's obvious, I wrote an entire OP about it.

[ronnykmarshall]

195. You are too much.

Cool video however

[AtomicKitten]

196. I never called him a liar, did I?

Don't leave home without it.

[ronnykmarshall]

201. Serious?

Oh my god. You are too much. What skin is it off your ass if someone doesn't support YOUR candidate? Jesus Helen Christ. I'm sorry I just don't get this bullshit around here. It's the same shit from 2008 and 2004. You don't support Obama in 2008? You're attacked. You don't support Dean in 2004? Go to hell.

GAWD. I left this place after President Obama was elected in 2008 and came back to see him being attacked for not being "perfect" and people sat on their asses in 2010 and gave us the GOP congress. Came back in 2012 to support my President for re-election.

Now in 2015 ..... the same people are throwing the same shit towards Hillary supporters like it was 2008 all over again.

Hey Dionne ... sing it for us:

[AtomicKitten]

206. I wasn't here in 2004 and I supported Obama here in 2008, so your tizzy was for naught.

It's the same shit from 2008 and 2004.
You don't support Obama in 2008? You're attacked.
You don't support Dean in 2004? Go to hell.

[Agschmid]

203. You did.

I've been called it a few times today.

And I'm not going to give it a pass, it's just not true. And it's not a term that represents my actions in any way.

I'm going to stick up for myself here.

[AtomicKitten]

205. I absolutely did not. Anybody with eyes can see that.

[Agschmid]

208. Good I'm glad you ackowledged that I supported Bernie.

[AtomicKitten]

210. Never said that either. You might want to look into getting your eyes checked.

[Agschmid]

211. No I'm good.

I've made my point here.

Have a good night.

[ronnykmarshall]

213. You rock.

[ronnykmarshall]

212. Another personal insult ....

Typical.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

214. +1

eom

[ronnykmarshall]

215. This crap is so typical.

And "alerting" is total bullshit. Everyday it gets worse here in BU. I know I have to watch my step since I'm on "watch". But I'm not putting up with this shit anymore.

[AtomicKitten]

216. "Help I'm being repressed": Clinton supporters' clarion call w/ pretzel declarations of victimhood.

[ronnykmarshall]

218. Keep digging.

You do such a great job promoting your candidate with your charm.

[AtomicKitten]

222. Never said what I'm being accused of, and anybody here can see that.

Playing the victim card is emblematic of the candidate you support. And it plays right into the "Bernie supporters are so mean" meme many Clinton supporters have been promoting here even if it's made up, and it usually is, out of thin air.

[ronnykmarshall]

229. Why do you give shit?

My Godzilla. Please, "victim card"? REAL Bernie supporters are not "mean". Just the vocal ones here. Go look around. Pro-Hillary posts are attacked by these so called supporters of Sen. Sanders. Thank Buddha his supporters outside of here are not such jerks.

[bettyellen]

254. you're soon getting alert stalked......

Why do you give shit?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=699610

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Poster is calling Sanders supporters here jerks and not real supporters. That's a pretty nasty personal attack.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Oct 18, 2015, 11:51 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: enough with the victim card bullshit- y'all sound like Freepers with that bullshit. you're embarrassing Sanders again.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: "Just the vocal ones here"
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: An obvious call out to supporters of a candidate he/she doesn't support.

[Agschmid]

224. I don't claim to be anyone's victim, especially not yours.

I don't feel repressed, if I did I certainly wouldn't have made the statement that I support Hillary Clinton for President.

As I've said up thread several times, it is what it is.

[AtomicKitten]

227. You've accused MANY people in this thread of calling you a liar, made up out of thin air.

People have expressed, as I did, that they've always taken you for a Clinton supporter based on your posting history.

That's it, the sum total of the so-called "egregious attack" on you.

[Agschmid]

228. When you have people saying "I knew all along what you posted isn't actually what you thought"...

That certainly indicates they thought I was lying about it.

[ronnykmarshall]

231. You're being monitored ...

take it as badge of pride.

[Agschmid]

232. I'm not concerned.

I'm not hiding anything, I supported Bernie (and I still will especially if he is the nominee) but I have now decided to vote for Hillary in the primary. I agree my posts do show a history, and that history is support of Bernie, excitement about him running... and yes now they will show support for Hillary as a I announced in the OP.

No big surprises there.

[ronnykmarshall]

230. ooo posting history ....

Stalk much?

[okasha]

237. Uhmm...the triple-platinum version

goes to crowd who are demanding that the President, no, less, intervene to declare Sanders the winner of Tuesday's debate.

[ronnykmarshall]

239. Well there is an online poll

you know ..

[demmiblue]

170. Lol!

[boston bean]

172. bookmark this thread for proof of personal attacks on Hillary supporters.

Their perfection and claims of being the best of the best of the best moral persons in the world will come to a screeching halt when linked to a thread like this.

The Steven Leser threads would put those moral claims to bed, also.

[ronnykmarshall]

189. Oh hell yes

This shit thrown is epic. And the stalking of 'I've seen your posts' are down right creepy.

[BeanMusical]

204. The irony would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

I bookmarked a whole board with almost nothing but personal attacks on Bernie, his supporters and DU as a whole in some cases.

Here's an example:

Post by boston » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:51 pm

Give me a B. Give me an S.

What do you got?

BS

What does it mean?

Bull Shit

Give me a D

Give me a U

What do you got?

DU

What does it mean?

Deluded Untruth

Put em together

BSDU

What do you get?

Bull Shit Deluded Untruth

BSDU
BSDU

This post can't be seen with the direct link anymore. (It's at the Pub!). However:

http://web.archive.org/web/20150924083441/http://hillaryclintonsupporters.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=480

[boston bean]

209. Feel free to stalk me around the Internet.

I find it creepy.

That post was nothing like the personal attacks on a member here. I'd write it again. I have nothing to be ashamed of. I spoke the truth in generalized terms.

[BeanMusical]

217. Don't flatter yourself.

Stalking? I took screenshots and archived many pages of that hateful site without taking the names of the posters into account. The content of the threads was the motivation. You just happened to be one of many people who posted "interesting" stuff directed at DU, DUers and Bernie. Nice to know that you're not ashamed of calling Bernie Sanders "BullShit" and DU "Deluded Untruth".

[ronnykmarshall]

220. Oh oh oh oh ....

Can you please google my screen name? I had a recipe for Chili Rice that I lost.

[BeanMusical]

223. No but I can give you my grand mother's recipe.

[ronnykmarshall]

225. YUM!!!!

[boston bean]

243. So what? Very creepy behavior if you ask

me. Taking screenshots. Linking to archived sites. Following posters around the Internet. Concerning, creepy behavior if you ask me. In other words I don't find it flattering at all. Other things yes.

[BeanMusical]

249. Sorry, I know what you are trying to do but I won't take the bait.

Good bye now.

[cui bono]

268. No. Creepy behavior is creating another site to spew hatred toward this site and its members

Last edited Tue Oct 20, 2015, 02:46 AM - Edit history (1)

and Bernie and then still coming here and posting as if you're not participating in a cesspool of filth elsewhere where you post vile posts about the people you are interacting with on here.

And then, after you know very well that the contents of that hate filled site were posted here over a weekend after someone visited that vile site, calling people who reference that documented proof "creepy stalkers"

That's not only creepy it's bizarre. Why you guys continue to post here when you hate it so much is just plain crazy. And how you think you'll still get any respect from anyone whose seen the posts filled with hatred, claims of alert stalking on here and claims of having your own juries on here is what is "concerning".

I wonder how many threads are in the "Issues" forum now?

[BeanMusical]

288. +1

[Bobbie Jo]

273. Exactly...

Creepy in the extreme.

Some of these folks have shown a propensity to stalk and dig around the internet for personal info. What happened to bravenak should give everyone pause.

Hoarding screenshots, stalking FB pages, Twitter feeds, and chasing DU'ers all over the damn internet is creepy beyond belief.

[BeanMusical]

280. Hi Jo!

Have a nice day.

[Bobbie Jo]

281. Speak of the devil..

Welcome back!

[BeanMusical]

282. Thank you!

[Bobbie Jo]

248. Hell, bookmark just about any thread.

Only difference, this one has a designated target.

Seriously, pick any thread.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

175. I am proud to stand with Agschmid.

eom

[ronnykmarshall]

177. It's so telling ....

when a poster did the opposite than you (Hillary to Bernie) there was a ticker tape parade provided by the Bernie supporters.

Yet you are getting attacked and stalkers post your previous posts.

So common around here these days.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

178. So much for unconditional love?

eom

[Starry Messenger]

190. This.

[joshcryer]

192. I don't consider the attackers "supporters" of Sanders.

They just use Sanders for their own hateful attacks. I have put so many on ignore it's ridiculous. I'm sure I'm on some of those "suppprters'" list because I'm above attacking people.

Sanders "supporters" bashing BLM was when I realized they really don't care about his candidacy beyond internet advocacy. Most odd those "supporters" are actually setting Sanders up for failure.

I support Sanders because he's above the attacks.

[ronnykmarshall]

193. So with you on that Josh.

Bernie showed these so called "supporters" what's it all about at the debate. I respect and admire Bernie. He's not my choice for the nomination .... just like Barack wasn't my primary choice in 2008 ..... and god did I take SHIT for that. But I'll be damned if Hillary doesn't get the nomination I won't support Bernie.

What really pissed me off in 2008 was the fucking PUMA assholes. And now I see not only here but on various forums #BERNIEORBUST. These assholes would rather take Hillary down and let a republican win. Total fucking bullshit.

[JI7]

256. and if you look at their posts before Sanders was running

you will see they were posting the same things. they equate support for Sanders as hating Clinton or someone else rather than anything to do with Sanders himself.

[joshcryer]

257. Just wait...

...if Sanders loses the nomination any Sanders supporter who goes on to support the nominee will be trashed.

[Agschmid]

258. No one should support a candidate because they hate another one...

It's a bad reason.

[sheshe2]

183. You, Agschmid are no liar.

I know this. I am sorry you are being treated so poorly in this thread, yet you weather it well.

Bernie's loss is our gain.

Welcome.

[Agschmid]

185. I've dealt with worse.

I know who I supported at first, I know who I now support.

And I'll say it again.

It is what it is.

And I will certainly work for the nominee to get them elected whether that be Bernie, Hillary, or even Biden. This election is important, and we have to do everything we can to make sure we win, and that we do our best to change the senate back to democratic control.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

188. If you change your mind we will be disappointed but we won't pillory you...

Not only are we big D Democrats but we are little d democrats as well...

[sufrommich]

191. The hateful bitterness on this thread because someone

dared to choose Hillary Clinton as their candidate would be funny if it wasn't so disturbing. Some of you need to get a grip.

[sheshe2]

194. The divisiveness within their own camp...

is startling.

[peacebird]

202. Why did you decide? Because you like her support of more H1b visas? More outsourcing? Support for

NOT breaking up too big to fail banks? Refusing to reinstate Glass Steagal? Or maybe because she is for Monsanto being able to avoid labelling GMOs? Perhaps because she supports fracking? Or maybe you like her warhawk stance on Iran?

If so, why exactly are you a Democrat?

[Agschmid]

207. I stand with her based on most of her policy positions.

In fact I stand with most of our candidates and most of their policy positions, you ask me why I am even a Democrat? Let me tell you why I am a Democrat, and why I am proud to be one and to support whomever gets the nomination...

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/the-top-10-republican-candidates-in-order-of-crazy--WJeu_SCogNx

Maybe that will help you understand why I am a democrat, and proud to be one.

If that doesn't I can't help you.

[peacebird]

263. For all the reasons stated in my other post I can never support Hillary. I don't think the middle

Class will survive another Clinton presidency. The Third Way, DLCers have turned the Democratic party into moderate Republicans. Very pro Business, with a splash of social policies to sweeten the pain. I respect your decision, but I believe Bernie is far closer to what we need in this country, escpecially since I fully expect Hillary to turn away from the progressive policies she is being forced to embrace in order to gain the nomination if she is elected.

[Kang Colby]

226. Great decision. K&R

[bowens43]

235. There is no 'win' with hillary.

[Agschmid]

238. I feel differently.

However I will absolutely work to get the nominee elected if it isn't her. And it's certainly a "win" when you compare it to a potential Ben Carson presidency.

[senz]

240. Well, there's a Wall Street win and a corporate win with Hillary

and let us not forget, as the Supreme Court and Mit Romney explained, "Corporations are people too, my friend."

They just luuvv Hillary!!

[Agschmid]

241. I'm rooting for a win against republicans.

That's my kind of win.

[closeupready]

259. That's fine. People change their minds.

I just hope it's for an honest reason, because one day you'll look back and have to account to yourself and your conscience for doing what you do now, and the repercussions it has for your children, other's children, the world, the planet, and every creature and species on it.

Yes, we are, each of us, one being on a planet populated with billions like us, but you start with the man in the mirror.

Anyway, have a great week.

[Agschmid]

260. Thanks for your words.

And IMO I'm doing it for the right reason, it didn't come easy and I actually spent time volunteering with both campaigns to get to my final decision.

Have a good week as well.

[shivors]

277. In good company

These "People" also threw their support behind Hillary. I am sure Hillary will fight Wall Street and the status quo. No doubt the interests of the middle class will be what she will work for and not these huge donors....right?

Citigroup Inc $824,402
Goldman Sachs $760,740
DLA Piper $700,530
JPMorgan Chase & Co $696,456
Morgan Stanley $636,564
EMILY's List $609,684
Time Warner $501,831
Skadden, Arps et al $469,290
University of California $417,327
Sullivan & Cromwell $369,150
Akin, Gump et al $364,478
Lehman Brothers $362,853
21st Century Fox $340,936
Cablevision Systems $336,613
Kirkland & Ellis $329,141
National Amusements Inc $328,312
Squire Patton Boggs $328,306
Greenberg Traurig LLP $327,890
Corning Inc $322,450
Credit Suisse Group $318,120

J/K...we know she is a shill. Focus groups decide her views and money buys her opinions. #justanotherpolitician

[Agschmid]

278. Can you please include the missing information from the table you've included in your post?

[restorefreedom]

279. jury results

On Mon Oct 19, 2015, 01:05 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

In good company
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=701458

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Calling a democrat a shill and falsely misrepresenting individual donations by people as donations by companies is a right wing tactic. Can we stop calling an almost life long democrat a shill, it's not productive and is disruptive.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Oct 19, 2015, 01:08 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Hillary is not the nominee. When/if she becomes the nominee, I will vote always to hide the shill comments (even if I secretly agree with the poster). Sorry, but people don't have to be forced to be nice about all nominees before the convention. Look what we were saying about Joe Lieberman 10 years ago. Suggest you avoid the Primary forum like the rest of us sane folk.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts.

If you can't stand the heat...

This is just an opinion. If the alerter doesn't like it, then make an argument against it instead of trying to censor it.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with alerter and suggest MIRT may want to check the poster
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Seriously?
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: no we cant stop

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Agschmid]

284. Dear juror 3, this just *isn't* the facts.