Hillary Lied: She keeps saying what she did with her emails was "allowed"

[Cheese Sandwich]

She did it again in the debate last night...

CLINTON: Well, I've taken responsibility for it. I did say it was a mistake. What I did was allowed by the State Department, but it wasn't the best choice.

But what she did was certainly not allowed. It was a clear violation of State Dept. rules.

Shame on the CNN moderators for letting her get away with a lying to the nation about this serious ethical problem.

Judge Says Hillary Clinton Didn’t Follow Government Email Policies

AUG. 20, 2015
A federal judge on Thursday said that Hillary Rodham Clinton did not comply with government policies in her exclusive use of a personal email account while she was secretary of state, challenging her longstanding position that she abided by the rules.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/21/us/judge-says-hillary-clinton-didnt-follow-government-email-policies.html?_r=1

[boston bean]

1. You are wrong. do some more research. nt

[Cheese Sandwich]

2. I presented evidence.

That's more that you've done.

[Renew Deal]

57. You didn't present evidence

Evidence would be the policy.

[Cheese Sandwich]

60. In DU we consider NY Times news articles as evidence

[AndreaCG]

79. Like Judith Miller's articles?

LMAO.

[Cheese Sandwich]

80. This is very factual though. Take a look at it.

I get it that this is not a popular opinion her but oh well

[AndreaCG]

81. It's been debunked by several posters

[Cheese Sandwich]

82. Not really. They just say it's debunked but if you read the stuff it's factual.

That NY Times article is factual. If it's not, then someone can let me know which facts in it are not true.

So far the only debunking I've seen is people saying the Bushies did it too and calling it right wing talking points.

None of that is actually debunking. It's more like deflecting.

[Andy823]

83. Did you know the poster

Will Twain? Just curious.

[AndreaCG]

86. Poster #9 linked a Gene Lyons article

Which debunked it quite well. Stop being a troll

[Cheese Sandwich]

87. But nothing in that disputes the basic facts.

The policy when she arrived was emails had to be on authorized computers. She broke that rule.

Later the policy was that emails had to go through the official network. She broke that rule too.

As far as I know those are basic facts that nobody disputes, except for when Hillary says it was "allowed".

It wasn't allowed.


Nothing in the article from post #9 contradicts that. The article seems like a much of blowing smoke to me.

You're calling me a troll but really you're the one trolling me with misleading info!!!!

[DURHAM D]

6. Well, that is no fun.

[blm]

3. It's only allowed for Republicans.

.

[senz]

31. And DINOs ;-)

[uponit7771]

4. The email story is an ADMITTED righty attack on a dem candidate to drag down numbers, why is this...

... still allowed on DU?!

This is silly, even Sanders doesn't give a shit about the email .... says they're not substantive

[FlatBaroque]

13. conflating Benghazi and the server issue. Interesting strategy

try to link the legit server issue to the illegit Benghazi investigation. I watched her launch that strategy last night. Some will buy the slight of hand. Thinking people, not so much.

[OregonBlue]

45. Perhaps you missed the last year where the GOP has been trying to conflate Benghazi to the

email story. They are trying desperately to say that she is guilty of the deaths of those Americans in Benghazi and all of her guilt and all the evidence is on her email server. That it was a giant cover-up and the CIA and DOD helped her cover it up and she put it all in her private email. It's total b.S. and no thinking person should go along with their lies and insinuation and character assassination.

[OilemFirchen]

62. To whom will Clinton testify next week?

And about what?

[emulatorloo]

85. Sorry, you don't know your Benghazi Committee history.

E-mailghazi is a desperate spin-off by Trey Gowdy and the Benghazi Committee. They have been driving this bullshit from Day One.

[handmade34]

5. Hillary Clinton did not lie n/t

[hrmjustin]

7. Didn't Bernie say enough already?

[Cheese Sandwich]

21. So?

[hrmjustin]

23. Oh yes i understand now.

[Starry Messenger]

41. Yup. (nt.)

[hrmjustin]

43. .

[ronnykmarshall]

88. Same here

If Hillary gets the nomination and Bernie endorses her like she did for Barack in 2008 .... some peeps around here would say that Bernie was killed and a fake Bernie replaced him ... or some other crazy shit like that.

[JRLeft]

8. Email gate is a waste of time. Her Wall Street ties are the real threat.

[haikugal]

14. It speaks to her character but you're correct about her Wall Street ties being the real threat.

Thanks!

[senz]

32. This is true.

[Human101948]

9. Here's an analysis of that deeply flawed story (in other words a right wing smear)

The article quoted Tom Fitton, the president of Judicial Watch, a right-wing group suing the State Department for access to Clinton aide Huma Abedin's private emails, chastising Hillary. It didn't stipulate how the former secretary, not a party to the lawsuit, came to be mentioned. Schmidt added that judge Sullivan was appointed by President Bill Clinton -- although a glance at Wikipedia shows that he was initially a Reagan protege later promoted by George H.W. Bush.

It's not supposed to matter.

But a funny thing happened on the way to the print edition of the New York Times later that morning. Schmidt's story underwent significant editorial changes. Two anonymous sources were replaced by no sources. "A federal judge on Thursday said," the story began. The Judicial Watch guy disappeared. Judge Sullivan was no longer a Clinton appointee.

More significantly, the "Washington" dateline was replaced by no dateline.

Basically, the Times told us the judge said something, but contrary to Journalism 101, didn't say how they knew it or why he said it. Pretending that a reporter attended the hearing when he didn't, however, would be far worse. Hence, I suspect, the disappearing dateline.

We're to take it on faith.

http://www.the-daily-record.com/opinion/2015/08/29/commentary-new-york-times-and-clinton-rules

[GeorgeGist]

56. +1

[randome]

10. What other candidate do you hold to strict adherence to government rules (not laws)?

This is like insisting that all jay-walkers be given fines.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[Human101948]

11. But there is not even a shred of evidence that she jaywalked...

It's Fox News journalism: "Some people say..."

[randome]

20. I know, I know. It's annoying as hell.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[haikugal]

12. She made the decision to do what she did.

What she did was non-transparent which opened her up to this whole mess but she paints herself as a victim. She can't have it both ways. If she's taking responsibility she doesn't whine about it, she owns it. It is a big fail in my view. She is not the exception to the rule she thinks she is. What she did was wrong.

What the republicans have done is wrong as well.

Neither has helped our country better itself.

[NCTraveler]

15. She didn't lie.

And as Sanders said, it's time for democrats to stop carrying water for the most vile of republicans just because it meets their needs. Enough. It is personally unethical and depending on the intent it also brings in questions about ones morals as they perpetuate this right wing witch hunt.

Gowdy has a whole party lying and carrying his water for him, he doesn't need help from "democrats."

On a side note, if I bring in comments from a judge who claims something was wrong, will you simply run with it? Your method of "proof" here is laughable at best. I got some good quotes from judges for you that will change your worldview since you find them to be infallible.

[Cheese Sandwich]

17. She broke the rules. Regular people pay a price when they break the rules.

Government employees are not allowed to run their own private email systems outside of public oversight.

That's a very shady move.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

30. But she DIDN'T break the rules...

That's the point. The current rules were NOT in effect at the time.

[Cheese Sandwich]

33. She broke the old rules and the new rules

Judge Says Hillary Clinton Didn’t Follow Government Email Policies

When Mrs. Clinton became secretary in February 2009, the State Department’s general policy was “that normal day-to-day operations be conducted on an authorized” government computer. Nine months later, federal regulations were toughened to say that government agencies that allow employees to use nongovernment email accounts must “ensure that federal records sent or received on such systems are preserved in the appropriate agency record-keeping system.”

Since The New York Times reported in March that Mrs. Clinton exclusively used a personal email account, she has said that she complied with the regulations by sending emails to the work accounts of government officials so that those messages would be caught in the government’s servers. At a news conference in March at the United Nations, Mrs. Clinton said, “I fully complied with every rule that I was governed by.”

Emails from Mrs. Clinton’s account that were handed over to Congress show that she sent emails to at least four of her aides on their personal email accounts. Unless those emails were later sent to government accounts, they could not have been retained on government record-keeping systems.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/21/us/judge-says-hillary-clinton-didnt-follow-government-email-policies.html?_r=1

[Human101948]

35. This is a discredited news story...

The article quoted Tom Fitton, the president of Judicial Watch, a right-wing group suing the State Department for access to Clinton aide Huma Abedin's private emails, chastising Hillary. It didn't stipulate how the former secretary, not a party to the lawsuit, came to be mentioned. Schmidt added that judge Sullivan was appointed by President Bill Clinton -- although a glance at Wikipedia shows that he was initially a Reagan protege later promoted by George H.W. Bush.

It's not supposed to matter.

But a funny thing happened on the way to the print edition of the New York Times later that morning. Schmidt's story underwent significant editorial changes. Two anonymous sources were replaced by no sources. "A federal judge on Thursday said," the story began. The Judicial Watch guy disappeared. Judge Sullivan was no longer a Clinton appointee.

More significantly, the "Washington" dateline was replaced by no dateline.

Basically, the Times told us the judge said something, but contrary to Journalism 101, didn't say how they knew it or why he said it. Pretending that a reporter attended the hearing when he didn't, however, would be far worse. Hence, I suspect, the disappearing dateline.

We're to take it on faith.

http://www.the-daily-record.com/opinion/2015/08/29/commentary-new-york-times-and-clinton-rules

[Cheese Sandwich]

39. I guess you're attempting to discredit it right now

But it's not working

Those were the rules, and she broke the rules.

She admits that she "made a mistake".

What was the mistake she made?

Breaking these rules was the mistake.

[Human101948]

44. Did you even read that analysis?

It was not my analysis, but that of a mainstream newspaper, so I can hardly be credited for discrediting the story. She made a mistake only in that she did not anticipate that it would be the one thing that the phony Benghazi investigation would fixate on.
Which as Trey Gowdy admitted has nothing to do with Benghazi.

I don't know who you grinding an axe for, but I agree with Bernie--enough already!

[Cheese Sandwich]

47. Someone else posted it and I looked at it earlier.

You are not being factually accurate.

A federal judge ruled that she violated government policy.

And she clearly did.

[Human101948]

65. Maybe a rightwing news story will convince you that you are tilting at windmills

Lawyers with the Justice Department on Thursday told a federal court that Hillary Clinton had the legal right to use her own email account and broke no laws in how she handled those messages, The Washington Times is reporting.

The lawyers defended the former secretary of state in a legal filing, saying they have no right to order Clinton to turn over any more emails or documents than those she has already given back to the government.

"There is no question that Secretary Clinton had authority to delete personal emails without agency supervision — she appropriately could have done so even if she were working on a government server," the DOJ lawyers said, according to the Times. "Under policies issued by both the National Archives and Records Administration (‘NARA’) and the State Department, individual officers and employees are permitted and expected to exercise judgment to determine what constitutes a federal record."

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Hillary-Clinton-emails/2015/09/10/id/684121/#ixzz3oYzoYLsl
Urgent: Rate Obama on His Job Performance. Vote Here Now!

[Dr Hobbitstein]

70. You've been REPEATEDLY told that

the article you quote has been discredited. And here you are again, quoting the same discredited article. Hillary broke no rules. That has been established.

That's gonna be some tender fucking chicken when you're done.

[blm]

77. More like….. craving pizza.

The owls aren't always what they seem.
-TwinPeaks-

[OregonBlue]

38. What she did was break the sorta rules, however, it was not against the law. The law was

changed months after she left office. What the GOP keeps insisting is that what she did was illegal. They would have you believe she had her friend Christopher Stevens murdered and then ordered the military to stand down and refused any aid for those Americans in Benghazi and then wrote all about it in her emails to the CIA and DOD and got them to lie about it too.

Please stop with the GOP talking points.

[Cheese Sandwich]

42. She keeps saying what she did was "allowed"

It was not allowed.

Tell her to quit lying, instead of telling me to stop pointing it out.

[OregonBlue]

50. But it was allowed. The two previous Secretaries had also used private email. I agree that it was

not the best decision but given the crappy state of government server security I do understand why she might have gone that route. Too many Clinton haters at DOD, CIA, FBI who would have tried to access her information. Collin Powell has even come out and said that he used private email a lot and deleted everything when he left. He didn't ask anyone's permission or have anyone review what he believed were his private emails.

So yes, it was allowed (since the previous secretaries had done it and it was not illegal) but was not a good decision. Sorry but I think you are wrong.

[Cheese Sandwich]

53. No it was against the rules

Judge Says Hillary Clinton Didn’t Follow Government Email Policies

When Mrs. Clinton became secretary in February 2009, the State Department’s general policy was “that normal day-to-day operations be conducted on an authorized” government computer. Nine months later, federal regulations were toughened to say that government agencies that allow employees to use nongovernment email accounts must “ensure that federal records sent or received on such systems are preserved in the appropriate agency record-keeping system.”

Since The New York Times reported in March that Mrs. Clinton exclusively used a personal email account, she has said that she complied with the regulations by sending emails to the work accounts of government officials so that those messages would be caught in the government’s servers. At a news conference in March at the United Nations, Mrs. Clinton said, “I fully complied with every rule that I was governed by.”

Emails from Mrs. Clinton’s account that were handed over to Congress show that she sent emails to at least four of her aides on their personal email accounts. Unless those emails were later sent to government accounts, they could not have been retained on government record-keeping systems.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/21/us/judge-says-hillary-clinton-didnt-follow-government-email-policies.html?_r=1

And trying to justify it based on what was done in the Bush administration doesn't help me either. That was one of the most unethical administrations in American history so why anybody would want to be compared to them is beyond me.

[OregonBlue]

54. Wow, she broke the rules. Hang the witch. I agree what she did was not smart, it also wasn't

criminal. And what the GOP has tried to do is insinuate that she had Americans killed and covered it up and put it all in private email which she deleted to hide it from them. It's all b.s. and I'm surprised that anyone on DU would go along with their attempt to destroy her. I'll probably vote for Bernie in the primary but that doesn't mean I'm going to buy into the Teahadist meme on Hillary.

I sure hope no one here is claiming she should be arrested for what she did, given how many others in her position had done the same thing.

[blm]

69. So, you NEVER read the exact date WHEN State Dept guidelines went out?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/03/hillary-email-scandal-not-so-fast.html

Or, did you choose to run with the GOP narrative instead of trusting the actual facts shown in the timeline?

[Cheese Sandwich]

73. A federal judge determined Hillary's email system broke government policy

That's a fact.

When she first got there, there was a rule that all business be done on authorized computers. She broke that rule.

Later they made a rule that all emails had to go through the state department system, and she broke that rule as well.

It's not OK just because it's a Democrat.

[blm]

76. HAHAHA……sure…..I hear you petitioned the committee to censure Powell, Rice and

the entire Bush WH, too. Plus ALL the GOP governors who used private servers, too. You did that, didntcha?

The 'judge' didn't throw her in jail, eh? You really want to keep hanging your hat on that one judge, dontcha?

[blm]

68. Her predecessors did the same without concern because GOP congress

didn't see anything wrong with it. Nor did they show concern for the 20 million emails that went through private servers during Bush WH, and the millions more on the private servers of various GOP governors.

So…..how is it that THIS use of a private server annoys you and the Republicans so damn much? And why did you choose to completely ignore all evidence that points away from the guilt and 'corrupt' purpose you claim in your posts?

Michael Tomasky:

Hillary Email ‘Scandal’? Not So Fast

A NYT report says Clinton may have violated federal regulations by using private email for government business. But those rules weren’t in place when she’s alleged to have broken them.
>>>>
But let’s hold on a second. A close reading of the Times piece reveals one potential big hole in the case. I’m not saying the Times is wrong here. It’s still a foggy situation. I am, however, saying this: You have to know how to read these things, and if you do know how to read them, there’s a big question here that could—potentially—exonerate Clinton to some or maybe even a considerable extent.

The article says that there were “new” regulations that Clinton was supposed to abide by. It notes that one past secretary of state, Colin Powell, who served from 2001 to 2005, sometimes used his personal email account “before the new regulations went into effect.”


So, a key question would seem to be this: When did the new regulations go into effect? If 2007 or 2008, then Clinton would appear to be in direct violation of them, depending on what precisely they said. If later, it gets a little murkier.

Oddly, the Times article doesn’t say. It doesn’t pin the new regs down to a specific date or even year.

Now, I know enough about reporting to know how this works. If you’ve got an airtight case, then you lay it all out there. You include the date. Indeed you emphasize the date, you put it high up in your story. The fact that it’s not in there is a little fishy.

Well, this might be the explanation: The new regs apparently weren’t fully implemented by State until a year and half after Clinton left State. Here’s the timeline: Clinton left the State Department on February 1, 2013. Back in 2011, President Obama had signed a memorandum directing the update of federal records management. But the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) didn’t issue the relevant guidance, declaring that email records of senior government officials are permanent federal records, until August 2013. Then, in September 2013, NARA issued guidance on personal email use.
>>>>>>>>
A senior State Department official emailed me to say that “in October 2014, a Department-wide notice was sent out which explained each employee’s responsibilities for records management. Consistent with 2013 NARA guidance, it included instructions that generally employees should not use personal email for the transaction of government business……….

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/03/hillary-email-scandal-not-so-fast.html

[senz]

37. It's nice to see you saying something positive about Bernie.

Hope this won't be the last time we see it.

[emulatorloo]

16. Bernie has spoken, time for DU'ers to drop e-mailghazi

As I suspected, Bernie has no time for this bullshit so maybe DU should focus on real issues too.

My plan to get Bernie the nomination is to knock doors and spread the word about what he stands for. Not breathlessly hang onto the words of Trey Gowdy et al.

[Cheese Sandwich]

18. Bernie should worry about himself instead of trying to dictate the comments on DU

Bernie has no time for email issues but DU has all the time in the world.

[emulatorloo]

19. Sounds like DU has the problem, not Bernie.

Do what you want, but aligning oneself with the right wing lie machine GOP-driven bullshit does not help Bernie win.

[FSogol]

22. +1. Well said. n/t

[ronnykmarshall]

89. Bravo!

[bettyellen]

24. Ha ha, most of us have better things to do.

[Cheese Sandwich]

26. Doesn't seem like it

[blm]

71. Yeah - if you're here at DU to push GOP narratives instead of a Dem candidate

who recognizes GOP's BS narratives when they see one.

[bettyellen]

25. Good plan!

[Dr Hobbitstein]

27. You really like fucking that chicken, don't you?

[zappaman]

28. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[senz]

29. I think by "allowed" she means, "Nobody stopped me" which is another way of saying

"I got away with it."

At least she's consistent in some areas.

[workinclasszero]

34. Bernie says we are sick of the email BS

(Democratic Debate) Sanders: 'People are sick of hearing about Clinton's emails'

What part of this do you not understand OP?

[Cheese Sandwich]

36. Bernie shouldn't be trying to strong arm the press into ignoring HRC's serious ethical problems

I can certainly understand he personally wants to talk about bigger issues.

But when high ranking government officials move electronic data off site, outside of government oversight, that raises serious ethical issues. And then if they lie about it it raises more ethical issues.

[workinclasszero]

40. So I'm waiting for your post attacking Bernie

about this.

I bet its going to be a long wait.

Kinda amazing when your own candidate tells you to stop and you keep right on going.

Do you just love attacking democrats with right wing talking points?

[Cheese Sandwich]

46. That's the post. Bernie shouldn't be going out of his way to defend HRC over this email thing

She wouldn't do it for him. I'm pretty sure about that.

[blm]

48. Right…Bernie should be carrying corpmedia's witch-hunt water FOR them.

Sorry, but, the GOP are pushing another one of their hypocritical 'outrages' with a fully complicit corpmedia.

Bernie (and I) refuse to accept the GOP narrative on this.

Apparently, you see the GOP narrative as legitimate, even though they offered NO CONCERN for private servers and deleted emails while Bush WH and most every GOP run state was doing the same.

[Cheese Sandwich]

49. I don't even know what the "GOP narrative" is.

I don't follow those hearings and stuff.

I'm just talking about a few basic facts.

What were the rules and polices? Did she break the rules? Did she move data out of government oversight, into personal email servers?

I'm sure the Republicans are horrible people and they are blowing it out of proportion to try and smear Hillary.

That's wrong. And also she should stop being so corrupt and acting like she's above the law. She keeps saying "it was allowed". But it was not allowed. It a violation of government policy.

[Renew Deal]

59. Read your OP

[ronnykmarshall]

90. But ... butt ...

look!

Look how Bernie seems frightened at Hillary!!! She HAS A GUN!! She was going to KILL BERNIE!

[NuclearDem]

51. When people talk about liking Sanders but not Sanders supporters

this is exactly what they're talking about.

Sanders knows the email manufactroversy is complete nonsense and has no interest in giving any legitimacy, but too many of his alleged supporters are doing just that.

[Cheese Sandwich]

52. Oh that's too bad

[workinclasszero]

55. You got that right

Some of Bernies followers are his own worst enemies.

Bernie says its BS, stop it but they just can't help themselves. SMH

[frylock]

66. Some of Bernies followers are his own worst enemies.

This guy!

[blm]

72. More like just 'playing' a Sanders supporter here at DU.

I think many of us real Sanders supporters recognize the difference.

[Cheese Sandwich]

74. Sanders is being very naive in defending Clinton on this email thing

She certainly would not waste any breath defending him over something like that.

[blm]

78. LOLOL - you really are past the unbelievable point.

.

[Sheepshank]

58. so sick of the bloody email hystrionics already

Bernie and the cheering audience knocked that out of the ballpark.

I wish DUers would stop water carrying for the Benghazi Committee.

[MineralMan]

61. You are simply incorrect.

Sorry.

[Cheese Sandwich]

63. The only way it can be considered "allowed" is if she means "nobody stopped me"

It's not against the rules when I do it because I make the rules.

That's what it means to say it was "allowed".

At least according to what I've read, the rules were pretty clear. Day to day operations were supposed to be conducted on government authorized machines, and later the rules changed to say all emails had to be in the oversight system.

She broke the rules.

What she did was not "allowed" in any normal sense of the word.

[MineralMan]

64. I've already responded to you on this.

You are incorrect. You're also wasting your time on a dead issue.

[LexVegas]

67. You should get a committee started to look into this. nt.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

75. Those who have the gold make the rules.

And, those who have the gold count on it to bail them out when they screw up.

[ronnykmarshall]

91. So what Bernie said last night

went over your head?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

92. About the emails? I disagree with him.

[ronnykmarshall]

93. Thanks.