2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders needs to do better on the "Are you a capitalist?" question.
He had a great debate, but I think when asked about whether he is a capitalist or a socialist or something in between, he needs to define more precisely where he falls in the spectrum of views that one might call capitalist or socialist. Merely talking about not believing that the few should gobble up a huge chunk of the nations wealth, or pointing to countries like Denmark as examples, is not good enough. He should come right out and identify the extent to which the means of production should be owned by the state, the extent to which businesses should be worker-owned, etc. I think if he was more precise, people would be less inclined to fear the sort of socialism he wants, or at least it could be debated.
Response to Vattel (Original post)
darkangel218 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)The end game for pure unfettered capitalism is one person holding all the wealth and the rest of the world broke.
That is why we have regulations to, in the words of HRC, "save capitalism from itself".
What she means is we have to inject a little socialism into the mix.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)No serious person believes in unfettered, free market capitalism--certainly no one who debated last night believes in that. But Sanders is the only one who was on that stage who says that he is not a capitalist and that he is a socialist. I think voters want to know exactly how that distinguishes him from the other candidates.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)The Neo-liberals of the XIX Century:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_%28industrialist%29
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)Nationalizing major parts of the economy is not. He would jump from Cool Uncle Bernie to Lenin! Castro! Chavez! by doing that.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)Or, more precisely, ensuring these industries are government run and not privatized.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)If he talks about nationalizing "product producing" companies, it would go south really quick.
cprise
(8,445 posts)Maybe the rail system (I know its more of a service, but thought it should be mentioned).
The Fed (production of money).
But I don't think he is going to push a lot of nationalization (of production) if any. Its more about the possibility that it could be used under extenuating circumstances.
cprise
(8,445 posts)It could be argued that most public enterprises should be owned at the state level. In that case, an DS president would be in position to facilitate the possibility of state ownership.
There are privatized water and land resources that came from municipalities which should be returned to the public.
iemitsu
(3,888 posts)Capitalists live off other's work. They do not have to work to support themselves because their capital does that work for them.
Most of us are workers, who get exploited by the capitalist class.
Why should any worker support that?
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)Manual is not the only kind of labor. Intellectual labor is still labor. Supervision is still labor. Finding employees, hiring them, training them, paying them, is labor.
And unless you are a sole proprietor, you benefit from the labor of your coworkers, and they benefit from yours.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)iemitsu
(3,888 posts)We don't live off of it, the way capitalists live off their investments. At least not until we are retired. Then much of what we might have earned can be lost through the fluctuations of the market place.
Our retirements should not be invested in the stock market anyway because most of us can't afford to lose it. We should get healthy pensions that are guaranteed.
FSogol
(45,488 posts)They don't have a clue about socialism in its many forms.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Neither was his answer on guns or his explanation of socialism.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)They didn't just fall out of the air sometime over the last 75 years!!!!!!!!!
This message brought to you by the Democratic Party!
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Americans are capable of absorbing one more word or concept, I think maybe.
Or maybe not.
Ron Green
(9,822 posts)Bernie could use these kinds of examples. They're everywhere.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)He's probably falling back on the same answers he has always given, but now it's getting more scrutiny, so he'll have to adjust.
Because he seems a little evasive, like he's trying to gloss over what's the differences a bit too much.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)That is what Sanders needs to explain.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Not to win more voters over. I think he does need to keep pushing out his message of WHY capitalism is failing everyday Americans, rather than simply just accepting a nuanceless label that can be used against him.
kentuck
(111,103 posts)He is not doing enough to educate the people on this subject. It is a subject matter that is deeply embedded in their brains.
Ron Green
(9,822 posts)level possible, consistent with support for human needs.
This is a cornerstone of transformational economics, and something I think Bernie understands and could explain.
jonjen
(4 posts)He should be careful not to tar all entrepreneurial activity with the same brush. There's a huge difference between the mom and pop store and the startups created by people with great ideas, and a Wall Street investment bank. Hillary followed up his response with a reminder of her support for small businesses. Like it our not, we are a capitalist society - it doesn't have to be a dirty word.
DinahMoeHum
(21,794 posts). . .and will work to save capitalism from it's worst excesses.
And when "socialism" gets mentioned, he should also say he's one like FDR was.