2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSo turns out that Bernies position on marriage in 2006 was pretty much Hillary's position
on marriage in 2006. We have been regaled with tales of Bernie the marriage crusader while Hillary was a vacillating politician. Now we know better. Slate's outward blogger wrote this about Bernie.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/10/05/bernie_sanders_on_marriage_equality_he_s_no_longtime_champion.html
But Sanders is not quite the gay rights visionary his defenders would like us to believe. Sanders did oppose DOMAbut purely on states rights grounds. And as recently as 2006, Sanders opposed marriage equality for his adopted home state of Vermont. The senator may have evolved earlier than his primary opponents. But the fact remains that, in the critical early days of the modern marriage equality movement, Sanders was neutral at best and hostile at worst
end of quote
A reasonable response was where is the source. So I did something sensible. I asked and I have received.
His source is an article from the Times Argus published on June 7, 2006 written by Ross Sneyd of the AP
Sanders said he opposes the constitutional amendment. States for years have had authority over marriage laws and that's the way it should remain, he said,noting that Vermont had led the nation in creating the civil unions law granting most of the rights and benefits of marriage to gay and lesbian couples. He noted that Vermont "led the way," but it was "a very divisive debate." Asked whether Vermont should legalize full marriage rights for same sex couples, he said: "Not right now, not after what we went through."
I can't find an online link the author of the Slate piece sent me a pdf. Here is a link to the author of the AP piece who currently works for Vermont public radio.
http://digital.vpr.net/people/ross-sneyd#stream/0
Now I have no problem with people evolving on this issue but I think we need to be honest and admit who has evolved. Simply put, Sanders had the same, precise, exact position on marriage in 2006 as the rest of the Democratic field including Hillary Clinton.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Just curious what this is supposed to prove.
dsc
(52,160 posts)was confusing to you? He may have had a different reason but he opposed bringing marriage equality to Vermont as late as 2006 which, it should be noted, is after the Hardball clip where Hillary was asked the same question in regards to NY.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Considering his vote against DOMA I find it difficult to believe he opposed marriage equality.
dsc
(52,160 posts)I gave the author's name, and a link to his present online presence, I gave the name of the newspaper, I gave the date it was written, I told you how I got it, and then said, in clear English I couldn't find it online.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Since you're claiming it's the gospel truth you should cite the source.
dsc
(52,160 posts)I gave you the author's name, and no I won't go back and retype it for you if you are too freaking lazy to read it. I gave you the name of the paper, and no I won't go back and type it for you if you are too freaking lazy to read it. I gave you a link to the author now, and no I won't go back and retype it for you if you are too freaking lazy to read it. I also told you were I got the pdf, I asked the author of the slate article and he gave it to me.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)If you're not "too freaking lazy" and want us to believe you, that is.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)You can also find this in their archives.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Perhaps you can show me where Bernie opposed same sex marriage in 2006?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)dsc
(52,160 posts)the debate (in 2000) was too divisive. That is opposing marriage equality plain and simple. He felt that it shouldn't happen.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Perhaps I should rephrase:
Please post proof that he opposed marriage equality in 2006 by providing links to Bernie actually saying that.
dsc
(52,160 posts)has the quote. I gave you the author, to my knowledge not a duer. I gave the date of publication. I gave the name of the paper. I also told you who gave me the pdf (the author of the slate piece who to my knowledge isn't a duer. but in any case, some one else gave you the link to the actual article from which I quoted. Does she have to read it to you over the phone?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You made the claim on DU and if you want me to believe you then you have to cite a source - on DU.
I would hold any other DUer to the same standard so it's nothing personal.
dsc
(52,160 posts)Those words mean no, I won't support marriage equality. I really don't know what else to say here. He was asked a direct question "Do you support marriage equality for Vermont" He answered "Not right now it was too divisive." That means no. I don't know what else to say. That quote appears in the article, which was linked (albeit not by me).
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)If you want people on DU to believe you, that is.
You've been claiming Bernie opposed same sex marriage for months and your latest attempt is another fail.
Better luck next time.
dsc
(52,160 posts)you need to back that up. What I said was that there was no citation whatsoever of him supporting it prior to 2009 and so far I haven't yet seen one despite repeatedly asking for one. I do now say he opposed it based on this article. If you want the author's source for the quote, I gave you his current online presence.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)11. no you merely claimed he supported it since 1975 or 1976
I can't recall the exact date of the letter you have spammed the board with repeatedly.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=655255
Where's your proof?
dsc
(52,160 posts)I was wrong about one thing, It was the early 70's instead of 75 or 76. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=488363
Bernie Sanders Was for Full Gay Equality 40 Years Ago
Todays Supreme Court decision was a monumental moment in American history, as it guaranteed the right for gays and lesbians to get married and established full marriage equality.
Many politicians offered their words of support, including President Obama and Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.
Yet it is important to remember that Obama and Clinton both opposed marriage equality as late as early 2012. It is a testament to the work of thousands of activists over decades that the political class was pulled towards supporting equality.
There is however one prominent politician who did not wait so long to call for full gay equality: Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
In a letter he published in the early 1970s, when he was a candidate for governor of Vermont from the Liberty Union Party, Sanders invoked freedom to call for the abolition of all laws related to homosexuality:
end of quote
I don't see anywhere in that post where you disavow the stuff you quoted. It is clear that the author the piece you quoted says exactly what I said you said and you don't disavow it.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I have posted that article countless times and I have yet to say that.
dsc
(52,160 posts)the article clearly states he supported marriage equality and you didn't disavow. I am going to bed so feel free to have the last word. BTW a link to my supposed behavior might be nice.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You have been on a crusade against Bernie over his lgbt rights record for months.
It's none of my business and you're free to continue but it seems rather Rovian to attack the man for his strengths.
Bernie's civil rights record is stellar.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)just a bunch of prevaricating.
I don't have to step in the bullshit to recognize that it smells bad, and my goodness, there is a fragrant air around this OP.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)ForwardMotion
(39 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)http://imgur.com/gallery/yxUMH4S
1 of 2 sitting Senators to attend MLK's "I have a dream" speech. Believe it or not, Mitch McConnell was the other one.
*Bernie may be the only Senator who has never run a negative campaign ad. (I absolutely love the hell out of him for staying true to those principles)
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I believe he was being pragmatic. It would be similar to someone asking a candidate shortly after passage of the ACA if they supported an immediate effort some major and controversial advance towards universal health care, and they replied "Not right now. It's too soon after the bruising battle we just went through, and we have to get other things done."
That is a whoooooooole lot of different than "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman, and we should not legalize same sex marriage."
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I don't understand why this is suddenly an issue for Clinton's campaign, when she never gave a shit about gay marriage before.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)dsc
(52,160 posts)Bernie's supporters have been flat out dishonest about what his position was. It was the same position. Both supported civil unions, both opposed the amendment, and both opposed marriage equality. In fairness, it was probably more ignorance than dishonesty, but the fact is certainly Bernie's campaign knew full well that he was being portrayed falsely on this issue and did not a thing to correct the record. Had Hillary behaved this way we well know what the reaction would be both here and in the press.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)dsc
(52,160 posts)but since you clearly didn't read the OP I can see why you had to ask.
Asked whether Vermont should legalize full marriage rights for same sex couples, he said: "Not right now, not after what we went through."
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)When did Bernie say he "opposed marriage equality"?
His vote against DOMA would seem to contradict your claim, wouldn't it?
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Sanders as an advocate for.states rights and by his support.of the 10th amendment link him to guns and racism
They are just very bad at it
dsc
(52,160 posts)if you don't I will alert you. I won't be lied about.
I don't control.what you alert
Aerows
(39,961 posts)"I will alert you".
Sometimes, volunteering for MIRT provides a perspective you wouldn't believe.
It is absolutely a great thing to do if you love DU.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)but it doesn't make you right, it doesn't make your assertions correct, and it doesn't cast your opinions in a fair light, if you have to run around threatening people. Mind you, I've been around here for quite a while, but I could see a new member becoming intimidated by you attempting to throw your weight around with threats.
Is this the face you want to show new members to DU?
dsc
(52,160 posts)no response yet. And I am waitng for where I called Sanders a racist. Put up or shut up to be blunt.
You are barking up the wrong tree if you are claiming that I, Aerows, ever accused you, dsc, of calling Sanders a racist.
That's as blunt as I can possibly be, and I resent that you would attempt to pin such a charge on me.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I saw them discussing it in a thread at another website and linking to DU.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)but then I realized that they'd probably be overjoyed as newbie political advocates.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)although it is technically not her campaign making the big deal, but posters on DU
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'm surprised you would put up such an "article" and declare that suddenly Hillary Clinton is the champion of gay rights. Even in 2011 she was complaining about her staff issuing passports that were inclusive.
Dishonesty, spin and mind-boggling justification is really not my thing.
It shocks the hell out of me every time I encounter falsehoods that would cause Pinocchio to fall over due to the weight of his nose growing.
dsc
(52,160 posts)My point is over and over and over and over we were told that Bernie supported marriage equality since Adam and Eve walked the earth. Now we know that is a pile of steaming bull shit. He opposed it, in no uncertain terms, in 2006 unless this reporter is an out and out liar.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)All I've seen are his supporters touting his long support of lgbt rights.
Seems like most DUers should approve of that.
dsc
(52,160 posts)I can't recall the exact date of the letter you have spammed the board with repeatedly.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)So far, all I've gotten was a lot of nothing.
O'Malley and Sanders have repeatedly been for equality long before (even in 2011) Hillary Clinto extolled the virtue of marriage as between a man and a woman.
I genuinely think that some folks in the Clinton camp believe that we can be cajoled, bullied and belittled into amnesia.
I'm not going to apologize for having a long damn memory.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I wonder why they hate Bernie so much that they can't acknowledge the fact that he championed lgbt rights for decades?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)He and by the way, Martin O'Malley, didn't need to evolve.
Griping at people for pointing out that Sanders didn't need to "evolve" isn't going to amount to much. Maybe you can go fuss at some O'Malley supporters who are likewise proud their candidate didn't need to evolve either.
Tell O'Malley and Sanders supporters that they are fools, and that Hillary has not gone on record against gay marriage.
I DARE you.
dsc
(52,160 posts)he tanked marriage the first time around and only came around the second time it was brought up. As for Bernie he said this. Asked whether Vermont should legalize full marriage rights for same sex couples, he said: "Not right now, not after what we went through." If that isn't opposing marriage equality I don't know what the word means.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)for both assertions.
dsc
(52,160 posts)here is the link about O'Malley. http://www.washingtonblade.com/2015/04/20/omalleys-amnesia-on-marriage/
emulatorloo
(44,120 posts)Neither HRC nor Bernie have any intererest in rolling back marriage equality.
I also find it mind-boggling that people here are arguing that a person evolving on the issue of Marriage Equality is a bad thing.
There are lots of issues we can talk about that make Bernie a better potential president than HRC. I don't think this issue is one of them. To me it is a distinction without a difference, so I don't see the point of it.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)Where did the OP "declare that suddenly Hillary Clinton is the champion of gay rights"?
Hillary did not "complain to her staff about issuing passports that were inclusive". She objected to the use of the terms "Parent 1" and "Parent 2" appearing on a child's passport - and I'm with her on that. What's wrong with "Father: Frank Jones, Father: Harry Smith", or "Mother: Ann Johnson, Mother: Joanne Harris"?
How is pointing out that HRC and BS had similar stances at the same time "justification" of anything? It's merely a statement of fact.
You just dishonestly "spun" what the OP said - and then you post a reply decrying the practice.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)this crap again?
i think some of you need a hobby
i hear wordworking is fun, maybe knitting....
Aerows
(39,961 posts)You can make a lovely throw with the shell pattern.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)i do think we need some kind of DU craft/toybox.
demmiblue
(36,845 posts)... but it would frustrate some because they insist on trying to put the square peg in the round hole (ad nauseum). We already have enough of that.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But that happens when you can't prove your claim.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Is his vote against DOMA confusing you?
emulatorloo
(44,120 posts)I have no problem with Bernie saying he supported Civil Unions back then. I doubt most voters will either.
As an aside, I think it is entirely possible Bernie had a problem with the institution of marriage in general, as most leftist do. Certainly at that time I viewed marriage as a patriarchal institution which reduced women to property. Personally I thought there should be no state sanctioned marriage, it should all be civil unions.
I understand your passion but to me arguments about who was there first on marriage equality are arguments about a distinction, not a difference.
As I said below neither HRC nor Bernie is interested in rolling back marriage equality.
I'd rather focus on the differences between the two candidates in terms of income inequality. Fighting over articles in Slate doesn't help Bernie win in Iowa and New Hampshire, which is my goal. But that's just me.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)His support of lgbt rights made him one of my early heroes in Vermont, so to see him denigrated for it here is disgusting to me.
Especially when the ones doing it support a woman who opposed same sex marriage until 2013.
I'll be more than happy to drop this when they stop lying about his record.
emulatorloo
(44,120 posts)But hard to take my own advice, lol.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But if someone else kicks it all bets are off.
emulatorloo
(44,120 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)dsc
(52,160 posts)I merely supplied the author's name, the author's current contact info, the date of publication, the name of the paper, the news outfit the author was working for, and the name of the person who emailed the article to me. but other than that, I provided no citation at all. You do know we have these things called archives, right. We did actually have to search for things before the net. History didn't start last week.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But these are only very recent developments. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton may be champions of same-sex marriage now, but you dont have to go far back to find a time when they werent. And hey, were happy to have their evolved support.
Not only did Sanders vote against the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996 which defined marriage as between one man and one woman, signed into law by then-president Bill Clinton an unpopular position then a look back at Sanders political career shows consistent support of the gay rights movement. Even when it was more than just unpopular, it was downright controversial.
In our democratic society, it is the responsibility of government to safeguard civil liberties and civil rights especially the freedom of speech and expression, Sanders wrote later in a memo. In a free society, we must all be committed to the mutual respect of each others lifestyle.
...
It is my very strong view that a society which proclaims human freedom as its goal, as the United States does, must work unceasingly to end discrimination against all people. I am happy to say that this past year, in Burlington, we have made some important progress by adopting an ordinance which prohibits discrimination in housing. This law will give legal protection not only to welfare recipients, and families with children, the elderly and the handicapped but to the gay community as well.
http://www.queerty.com/32-years-before-marriage-equality-bernie-sanders-fought-for-gay-rights-20150719
Of course, Clinton has since evolved on LGBT rights, as many have. That's wonderful. But the problem is, she only came out in support of marriage equality after it was not politically risky to do so. In fact, by 2013 - the year Clinton announced her full support for marriage equality - Democratic support for same-sex marriage was the norm, not the exception.
On such an important moral issue that affects my life and the lives of thousands of other Americans, making decisions in this manner is rather despicable. Additionally, Clinton's habit of doing what polls deem politically popular is the reason why so many voters find her inauthentic. Now, if Clinton were the only option for the Democratic presidential nomination, I would understand why we should support her despite these flaws.
But she isn't the only option.
Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, the longest-serving Independent in the history of Congress, is also running for the nomination. And unlike Clinton, his record on LGBT rights is historically excellent.
Sanders voted against DOMA, one of the few members of Congress to do so, at a time when such a stance was not politically popular. Four years after DOMA passed, Sanders helped champion Vermont's decision in 2000 to become the first state to legalize same-sex civil unions. This set a national precedent for LGBT equality achieved via legislative means. In 2009, when Vermont became the first state to allow marriage equality through legislative action rather than a court ruling, Sanders expressed his support once again. Truly, Sanders has been a real leader on LGBT rights, even if this leadership isn't recognized in the way that Clinton's current support is.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-novak/on-lgbt-rights-bernie-lea_b_7662682.html
Todays Supreme Court decision was a monumental moment in American history, as it guaranteed the right for gays and lesbians to get married and established full marriage equality.
Many politicians offered their words of support, including President Obama and Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.
Yet it is important to remember that Obama and Clinton both opposed marriage equality as late as early 2012. It is a testament to the work of thousands of activists over decades that the political class was pulled towards supporting equality.
There is however one prominent politician who did not wait so long to call for full gay equality: Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
In a letter he published in the early 1970s, when he was a candidate for governor of Vermont from the Liberty Union Party, Sanders invoked freedom to call for the abolition of all laws related to homosexuality:
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/bernie-sanders-was-full-gay-equality-40-years-ago
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Saturday he has been waiting for the nation to catch up to his support for same-sex marriage.
Sanders remarks come a day after Fridays landmark 5-4 Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage nationwide.
He argued he was well ahead of the historic decision, unlike Hillary Clinton, his main rival for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination.
...
Sanders at the time served in the House of Representatives, which voted 342-67 in favor of DOMA. The Senate voted 85-14 in favor, before former President Bill Clinton signed it into law.
That was an anti-gay marriage piece of legislation, he added of the law that defined marriage at the federal level as the coupling of one man and one woman.
Sanders on Saturday praised Americans for creating greater opportunities for same-sex couples. Fridays Supreme Court ruling, he charged, was not possible without national pressure for gay rights.
No one here should think for one second this starts with the Supreme Court, Sanders said.
It starts at the grassroots level in all 50 states, he said. The American people want to end discrimination in all its forms.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/246370-sanders-i-was-ahead-of-the-curve-on-gay-rights
Most Americans now support legally allowing gay and lesbian relationships, same-sex marriage, and personal marijuana use after decades of shifting public opinion. But one Democratic candidate for president, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, was calling for many of these changes decades ago.
In a 1972 letter to a local newspaper which was recently resurfaced by Chelsea Summers at the New Republic Sanders wrote that he supported abolishing "all laws dealing with abortion, drugs, sexual behavior (adultery, homosexuality, etc.)" as part of his campaign for Vermont governor:
These stances were far removed from public opinion at the time, according to Gallup surveys on marijuana and gay and lesbian rights. In 1972, 81 percent of Americans said marijuana should be illegal which suggests even more would favor the prohibition of more dangerous drugs like cocaine and heroin. In 1977, the earliest year of polling data, 43 percent of Americans said gay and lesbian relations between consenting adults should not be legal, while 43 percent said they should be legal.
...
But it took decades for the American public to come around to majority support on these issues: It wasn't until 2013 that a majority of Americans supported marijuana legalization, the early 2000s that most consistently responded in favor of legal gay and lesbian relations, and 2011 that a majority first reported backing same-sex marriage rights.
Sanders has carried many of these positions to this day. He was one of the few federal lawmakers to vote against the Defense of Marriage Act, the federal ban on same-sex marriages, in the 1990s. And while he told Time's Jay Newton-Small in March that he has no current stance on marijuana legalization (but backs medical marijuana), he characterized the war on drugs as costly and destructive.
http://www.vox.com/2015/7/7/8905905/sanders-drugs-gay-rights
Now that he's officially announced he will seek the Democratic nomination for president and challenge Hillary Clinton, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders will be talking about his positions on major issues on the campaign trail, and one very big issue he has championed for years is gay marriage. Sanders, unlike some of his potential Republican opponents, seems like he would not turn down an invitation to a gay wedding (and he might actually get invited to one).
In 1996, then-Representative Sanders voted against the Defense of Marriage Act, which barred recognition of gay marriage at the federal level (DOMA was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in 2013). Sanders' and his home state of Vermont were the first to legalize same-sex unions in 2000, at first recognizing them as civil unions. Gay marriage has been legal in Vermont since 2009, and as The New York Times reported, Vermont was the first state to pass legislation in support of same-sex marriage, rather than in reaction to a court ruling.
On Tuesday, as the Supreme Court took up the issue of gay marriage, Sanders issued a statement on his website reaffirming his support, saying gay Americans in every state should be allowed to marry.
Of course all citizens deserve equal rights. Its time for the Supreme Court to catch up to the American people and legalize gay marriage.
http://www.bustle.com/articles/79951-bernie-sanders-views-on-gay-marriage-show-hes-been-a-supporter-for-a-long-time
Bernie Sanders, the longest-serving independent member of Congress, is officially seeking the Democratic nomination for president in 2016, the Vermont senator announced in an email to supporters this morning.
"People should not underestimate me," Sanders told the Associated Press in an interview that broke the news of his candidacy Wednesday night. "I've run outside of the two-party system, defeating Democrats and Republicans, taking on big-money candidates and, you know, I think the message that has resonated in Vermont is a message that can resonate all over this country."
The self-described "Democratic socialist" wants to challenge the business-as-usual trend of big money in politics that he says dominates the current candidates including Hillary Clinton.
The thrust of Sanders's campaign thus far like his political career as the mayor of Burlington, Vt., 16 years in the U.S. House of Representatives, and the past seven in the U.S. Senate has focused on supporting working-class Americans through elevated taxes on the wealthy and correcting income inequality "which is now reaching obscene levels," he told the AP.
But Sanders has also been a steadfast and reliable supporter of LGBT equality, supporting the Employment Non-Discrimination Act when it passed the Senate in 2013 and even calling on President Obama to evolve already and support marriage equality in 2011. He's a cosponsor of the federal LGBT-inclusive Student Non-Discrimination Act and has consistently voted against bills seeking to amend the Constitution to ban same-sex marriage, while cosponsoring a bill that would repeal the remaining portions of the so-called Defense of Marriage Act. Sanders has a perfect score of 100 percent on the Human Rights Campaign's latest Congressional Equality Index.
http://www.advocate.com/politics/election/2015/04/30/bernie-sanders-most-lgbt-friendly-candidate
Fortunately, I am not a prostitute, so I don't have to actually shovel my dignity underfoot in this manner.
I do feel for you, though. It's a tough case to make.
dsc
(52,160 posts)tell me again how Vermonters would have gotten marriage equality in Bernie's world where such debates were divisive and shouldn't be engaged in even 6 years later.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)When the whole debate started, the LGBTQ community wasn't too focused on marriage equality. We opposed things like DOMA that ruled it out, but the main priorities were civil rights protections and hate crime protections. Vermont came along with Civil Unions, with the backing of Bernie Sanders, at a time when marriage equality was a futuristic pipe dream. The LGBTQ community pushed hard for civil unions, and felt that was a good transition model until such time we were able to achieve full marriage equality.
That time may not have come in 2006, so as a gay man I also would have suggested against pushing for marriage equality right that minute. Focus on other LGBTQ issues instead, that are more achievable. It soon came to be that it was possible to achieve marriage equality, and it came in Vermont (with Sanders') support and beyond.
You're claiming Bernie said he did not believe gay marriage was right. That's obviously false even with the quote of "not right now." If he opposed gay marriage, he would have said "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman" or "I don't think we should ever legalize gay marriage" or something similar. His answer is a very specific response about the possibilities of what could be done at that second in 2006. Had Bernie been able to make the choice himself, it seems obvious that of course he would have made marriage equality a reality.
dsc
(52,160 posts)the divisive debate he refers to had happened 6 years and 3 elections prior. Just how long were we supposed to wait in his world and just how was it better than Clinton's position? Frankly had Clinton said anything like this and we tried to say see she didn't oppose marriage equality you would, quite rightly, laugh in our faces. Oh, and the stuff about the gay community opposing marriage is correct but when I said it in defense of Hillary, well we know how that went. Funny only Bernie gets the benefit of arguments but not Hillary.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)and Hillary is eeeeebillll!!!
LostOne4Ever
(9,288 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Both Bernie and O'M have impeccable LGBTQ recrods.[/font]