How Hillary can win

[Onlooker]

I am a Sanders supporter and have made contributions to his campaign, but I started as a Hillary supporter. I supported Hillary because I think this country is way overdue for a woman president, and Hillary has many personal qualities and political qualities I like. I especially like the fact that the Republicans have been attacking her relentlessly since the 1990s, and yet she has stood up and weathered every attack. They launched 7 investigations of Benghazi and they turned a ridiculous email story into a major scandal. It's ridiculous because the fact is that policies that Clinton operated under had no negative effect on American foreign policy or security. There is no evidence that the email policies needed to be changed; in fact, when you look at confidentiality breaches they have come from the .gov addresses, not private emails by and large.

But, the fact remains that Hillary has a tepid agenda that is designed to pacify moderates. Unlike Sanders she does not present a coherent theme that ties all her policies together. From Sanders economic theme comes his views on race, education, foreign affairs, income, the environment and so on. Sanders makes a logical argument for his views that is not only fresh, it is clear, simple, and energizing. Hillary just issues mainstream Democratic pablum, some of which I agree with, some of which I disagree with. She has nothing new to say and is not generating much excitement as her decline in the polls show. Unlike Sanders, she is not making a case for her candidacy, she is merely making promises.

That said, Hillary certainly has her strengths, and obviously the nomination is not out of reach for her. When other Sanders supporters use the same bullshit attacks on her that the right uses, it softens my support for Sanders, and I suspect I'm not alone. I think the criticisms of Hillary that have to do with her political stands are great, but the other attacks are embarrassing and make me more sympathetic to her.

As in 2008, Hillary is an idiot. She is running an overcautious campaign that is driven by "seasoned veterans," and others who are fully insulated from the reality of the day-to-day thinking of Americans. Right now, more than Sanders, she is the one who should be calling for debates. If she wants to win, she needs to do the same thing that Bernie is doing -- she needs to present a coherent and logical argument as to why her policies make sense and why they are better than the alternatives. These days, she has enough common ground with Bernie that she can establish that she's not a right-wing as some Bernie supporters claim and she's not nearly as dishonest as both the left and the right claim. Her way to do this is through debates. More than Sanders or O'Malley, it is Hillary who should be wanting the debates to start already and who should be wanting more debates because that's the only way she has a chance of getting us to trust her again.

[peacebird]

1. Hillary is a warhawk ProCorporatist, against reinstating GlassSteagal or breaking up too big to fail

Banks, for TPP, against $15 min wage, had to 'evolve' on same sex marriage, is a member of the political fundie group 'the family', pals around with Kissinger, talks tough on Iran (troubling since her poor decision on Iraq).

Essentially on every issue where her view differs from Bernie's, I prefer Bernie's position.

[Thinkingabout]

3. Glass Steagal would have only helped in the finanical meltdown, Dodd-Frank needs enhancement to

cover more issues.

Guess you like Bernie's position on handling ISIS also.

[kenfrequed]

6. Uhm... you need to actually support that statement

Exactly HOW would Glass-Steagal have "helped" cause the financial collapse?



Preferably do so without the ridiculous, throwaway, terrorist-fear line.

[Thinkingabout]

8. "Cause", I did not say cause, I said it would have helped in the finanical meltdown, it would not

have prevented the meltdown. There are issues which occurred that was not covered by Glass Stegall.

[artislife]

19. Even if it couldn't have stopped the financial meltdown

Do you believe it should be reinstated? Is it at least some kind of protection to a owner occupied home? Are provisions and laws, rules and regulations to be jettisoned out just because they cannot stop a catastrophic event? The fact that they stop small ones and mid-sized ones, affecting thousands of people is not enough to keep them? And why was it removed? To what end? Who benefited?

An accident of magnitude is the occurrence of a number of things going wrong at the same time.

[Thinkingabout]

25. Dodd Frank was a replacement for Glass Stegall, needs some added to it, not perfect either.

[artislife]

27. That's my beef, too

We are losing real protections on so many things. Food, housing, environment...it is scary to envision twenty years from now without a full reversal.

[kenfrequed]

20. Ok...

You also seem to like to split midsentence between your reply title and the body of your text which is an eyesore.

But onto the overall vagueness of your post. When you say "helped" you did not state whether it would help cause or help prevent the meltdown.

But if the crux of your argument is that it would not do enough then why not pass it and then pass additional protections. Your argument now seems to be that you shouldn't install seatbelts because they don't completely prevent deaths in automotive accidents.

[daleanime]

9. +1

[Thinkingabout]

2. Do you listen to her policies which she has been giving since she started this campaign?

Must not have. You must not like working on wage disparity, assistance with college tuition, enhancing social security, voter suppression, enhancing health care, lowering prescription prices, education, lowering out-of-pocket health costs, women's issues, national security and the list goes on and on.

[djean111]

4. As a Bernie supporter - I like Bernie's stance on those issues better.

Add to that my dislike of any candidate who is for the TPP and fracking and increasing H-1B visas and cluster bombs - and Bernie is my logical choice. As we are constantly told, no candidate is perfect. But for me, Hillary's imperfections outweigh Bernie's imperfections. By a mile.

[Thinkingabout]

10. You are behind on the TPP.

[djean111]

15. Yeah, I understand that last year the TPP was her "gold standard", and saw that she

made a LOT (35? or so) of speeches and talks extolling the TPP when she was SOS. So - another thing she "evolved" on? Why would I not think she might evolve right back to her original support for it at some point? Bernie has been against it all along, and I think it is a corporate coup and a piece of tripe.

I see no point in keeping track of Hillary's evolving, because I feel she will evolve right on back if she needs to.

[Thinkingabout]

16. Do you work?

[djean111]

17. Why do you ask?

[Thinkingabout]

23. Because most people working does their duties required of their position and sometimes

it may or may not be the manner in which you prefer. Even if you are the owner of a company you still have to answer to the customers. Should you be judged by duties of your position as an employee.

[djean111]

26. Hillary's experience as SOS has been touted as one of her great qualifications.

If all she did was obey Obama, then it looks to me like she was just really good at following orders. Nothing she said during the time she was SOS should be taken to heart, then.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/15/politics/45-times-secretary-clinton-pushed-the-trade-bill-she-now-opposes/

45 times Secretary Clinton pushed the trade bill she now opposes

She is just not believable.

[Thinkingabout]

29. Okay, we will forget about Hillary's time as SOS and we will forget Bernie's time as congressman.

[djean111]

30. You still have not posted one single solitary reason why a Bernie supporter would switch to

supporting Hillary. Not one. I will just assume you are merely entertaining yourself.
Oh, and I can't support a hawkish candidate who says they will have a "more muscular" foreign policy.

[Thinkingabout]

31. Likewise, I have researched Bernie and have not found the qualifications in his history which would

make me switch. Oh, BTW, the hawkish candidate you support has also voted for wars, it is a part of his record also.

[djean111]

32. Then - there ya go! You vote for Hillary, I will vote for Bernie!

What is important to any of us can be quite different. That is why we have primaries, methinks. We all see things differently, and weigh them differently. That must really suck for, say, authoritarians, but that can't be helped.

[Thinkingabout]

35. Thank you, I appreciate that, the other snark, not appreciated.

[kenfrequed]

21. That is pretty offensive

You really aren't winning any converts to your candidate by asking questions like that? Are you actually a Hillary supporter or are you here just to further alienate people who support Sanders?

[daleanime]

13. I would rather trust her record.....

oops, I can't do that. She loses me after her Pro-War Hawk stance, don't even need to check trade or other issues. Sorry about that.

[Thinkingabout]

14. Like wise Bernie loses me on gun control, more Americans has died as result of gun violence than was

lost in Iraq. Gun violence continues.

[daleanime]

18. D- not good enough for you?

If you wanted to find an area where I disagree with Bernie I would suggest drones. Unfortunately for you I've never had a candidate that I agree with more then Bernie. Sorry about that, have a lovely day!

[Thinkingabout]

24. No.

[daleanime]

38. No, lovely day?

Sorry about that, then take care.

[uponit7771]

36. No, not at all... could care less what they rate him I look at his record of support and his voting

... on pivotal gun issues.

Also, hows this supposed to sell in Southside KC or Northern Philly were lack of gun control have ravished those areas?

[daleanime]

37. Probably not much better then Hillary's idea....

that the way to get Wall Street to behave is to offer them more 'incentives'.

And after all, we can trust her to work towards getting money out of politics once she's won her second term, right?

But we are not going to agree, are we? Have a lovely day!

[uponit7771]

41. Southside KC isn't gathering pitch forks for Wall Street... they're more interested in main Street

... cops killing their kids, kids with access to guns and adults with no access to jobs or good health.

Also,

Yes, we can trust her to get money out of politics... Wingerish mash of poo slinging doesn't cause me to distrust Hillary, I more distrust the winger news than Hillary herself so I'm not going to count her out of doing the right thing for the middle class.

Her husband was a damn good president, not perfect but damn good... and he should be seeing what he had to work with

Same for Obama

[daleanime]

42. Then we'll continue to disagree....

because I'm sure people see Wall Street as Main Street's friendly big brother and that Hillary can be counted on to pull the ladder up behind her....cough..uh..cough...choke...

Sorry, slipped my tongue too far back in my cheeck. Well, if that's what you believe, good luck with that. Have a lovely night.

[tularetom]

5. She can't win if she keeps holding on to that turd way meme

She just can't bring herself to get rid of what worked for Bill Clinton in 1992, but the country has moved way beyond it.

Welfare "reform" has failed, media consolidation is a disaster, gay marriage is now the law of the land, the war on drugs is over (drugs won), but she cannot tear herself away from the old middle of the road bullshit.

Oh, and "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow" won't work as a campaign theme song in 2016.

[Thinkingabout]

12. So, spouses are in the game also, thank you.

[WI_DEM]

7. She can win without Iowa & NH if needed

though it would be a set back for her to lose both. On Super Tuesday (March 1) she could get a huge amount of delegates if she wins such states as Texas, Florida, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Virginia, Mississppi, Alabama, Georgia, Arkansas and North Carolina. Sanders has his best shots on Super Tuesday in his home state of Vermont, Massachusetts (though HRC could be formidable there, too--she beat Obama solidly in MA in 2008 despite his endorsment by Ted Kennedy), Minnesota and Colorado.

[Thinkingabout]

11. Exactly, two states does not declare the nominee.

[uponit7771]

33. Those are the only two states in the union if you looked at DU OPs

[Thinkingabout]

34. Yea, right huh.

[pinebox]

22. Hillary and Colorado

I hateto tell you this but HRC isn't especially popular in my state however Sanders certainly is.

[BeyondGeography]

28. "As in 2008, Hillary is an idiot."

Agreed. The trust issue could be directly addressed with something resembling vision and/or soul-baring, but she doesn't go there.

It seems to me she is much too focused on her attackers/abusers than on her base. What are they up to/how best to pre-empt them. It's a collosal waste of time and energy, and it does nothing to help her ability to connect with people, which isn't that great to begin with.

[Arugula Latte]

39. Wait for her to trot out Hillary 7.0 -- "Now with Flavored Authenticity Bits!"

[Vinca]

40. In 2008 she ran in a bubble and her handlers are doing it again.

On the rare occasion she breaks free, she's a good candidate. Sadly, it doesn't happen often enough. She should be demanding as many debates as she can get rather than adopting the "bubble" strategy.