BLM - Blessing in disguise for Sanders

[thesquanderer]

Sure, it 's been ridiculous for BLM to target Sanders' appearances the way they have. Of all the candidates running from either party, he is arguably the one who is (and has always been) MOST in tune with their issues and needs... the one most focussed on improving the lives of the economically disadvantaged, the one who marched with Martin Luther King, etc. And what's the point of trying to get him to speak about your issues if you don't let him speak at all? In fact, my first thought when all this happened was, "black people aren't really going to fall for this, are they?" I didn't think BLM would actually turn POC away from the candidate who probably best represented their interests.

But regardless of all that, look what Sanders did. I doubt it's coincidence that he

(a) hired Symone D Sanders as press spokesperson and

(b) has come out with a more detailed platform specifically addressing "black" issues.

End result: He is making himself that much MORE appealing to black voters... and black voters may be the key to winning the nomination and the presidency.

Despite their questionable tactics, BLM may have helped Sanders enormously. So... thank you BLM.

[earthside]

1. And he could call-out the BLM leadership ...

... for being the Trotskyite-type extreme radicals I think they are. I simply don't believe BLM is interested in the slightest in improving anything for anybody; the leadership seems to be of the destructive "our way or the highway" ideology and they believe that liberals and progressives are their biggest enemy.

[RobertEarl]

41. BLM sure has garnered attention for Sanders

My local online newspaper, for the first time in weeks, has 2 reports about Sanders! One about the 43,000 at his two speeches, and the other about the confrontation with BLM.

The paper had been ignoring Sanders. Now he is being introduced for the first time to many more people!

As to Bernie's campaign response to BLM, it shows he is listening and does care.

[John Poet]

6. This is a false equivalency.

Jews were not natural allies of Hitler,
and AAs were never natural allies with the KKK.

The BLM movement, however, would be more natural supporters of our eventual ticket,
whomever it is.

[magical thyme]

34. not to mention that BLM hasn't even dented Bernie.

Insulted him and his supporters? Yes. Somebody who *should* be aligned with me instead chose to call me a bad name. Their loss turned into our gain.

[Supersedeas]

118. equivocation is the name of the game

[thesquanderer]

8. Sometimes adversaries do unintentionally help you.

Of course, not in the examples you cite. Hitler did not make Jews stronger or improve their situation, KKK didn't not make AAs stronger or improve their situation.

But that doesn't mean it never happens. It is ironic the few times it does... and I think this is one of those times.

[PeaceNikki]

9. JFC, they interrupted a stump speech, they didn't commit genocide, enslave or hang people.

Get a grip.

[cyberswede]

12. Good grief.

Your ridiculous comparisons aside, BLM activists aren't even "adversaries" of Sanders - they are citizens who are frustrated with his campaign's lack of attention to issues that matter to POC (issues that he cares about, but perhaps hadn't articulated sufficiently).

[artislife]

37. ^^^this.

Good thing that many of us supporters are not running for office, we wouldn't be able to handle it. In the BSG, I posted a video of him at the donor party at the Comet a mere few hours after the Westlake incident. He was unruffled.

He knows it happens, heck he has been on the other side.

[restorefreedom]

18. wow.

i have never alerted but this one comes real close.

what an odious and false comparison.

[Bjorn Against]

22. Hitler murdered most of Bernie's family

It is absolutely disgusting that you would compare the son of a Holocaust survivor to Hitler.

[JI7]

94. he compared blm to hitler

[Bjorn Against]

96. That is no better

[Smarmie Doofus]

4. In the increasingly unlikely event that he's nominated....

... the spectacle of him caving to a ramshackle, hyperventilating collection of information-compromised fanatics... to the point where he's (according to you) effectively letting them write his script for him.... is going to be impossible to defend against an autumn gop onslaught.

"If he can effectively be extorted by #blacklivesmatter.... or whomever's busting up his rallies... how's he going to stand-up to ISIL?"... will be the refrain.

It can't be effectively refuted at this point and it's the dark cloud inside the silver lining of the dark cloud.

Frankly, if he had a permit and they didn't , he should have had them arrested. (Yes , the symbolism would have been awkward; but not half as awkward as THIS symbolism is GOING to be.)

[John Poet]

5. Doesn't matter.

The people who would oppose him over this,
will ALREADY be opposed to him just because he's the Democratic nominee.
The only places it might change the numbers much are the places the GOP already carries by large margins.

However, the adjustments Bernie is making will make him more attractive to AAs,
whom we must have turn out for our nominee in high numbers.

[thesquanderer]

7. He didn't cave.

He simply made more clear what his priciples were all along.

[Smarmie Doofus]

29. Yeah, yeah. That's not how M$M will frame it. Come ON!. n/t

[thesquanderer]

33. Evidence?

He has hired Symone D Sanders and added more addressing race to his web site, as I mentioned.

Where is the MSM framing these things as caving? Links?

(And things like "addressing concerns" or "looking to shore up support" is not the same thing as "caving.&quot

[Smarmie Doofus]

53. Michael Medved Show on FOX Talk Radio yesterday. ( August 10)

I heard it live.

Medved said offering to give the mic to the two blm nazis showed "poor judgement."

Canceling the rally reinforced that perception.

The only reason why Sanders is not being CRUCIFIED for that by the media is because NO ONE in those ranks thinks he's going to be the nominee.


Trust me. It was a MISTAKE. You don't give in to nazis and fascists no matter HOW FURIOUSLY THEY SCREAM and THREATEN.

It just does't look good. To *anyone*.

[thesquanderer]

54. Right wing talk radio is not "mainstream media"

Those folks are lost anyway. No way they're voting for Hillary in November, either.

[Smarmie Doofus]

60. They're actually BETTER than mainstream media.

They at least REPORTED the event.

It didn't take place as far as any "objective" tv or radio news.... that I saw, anyway.

Just like everything else Sanders is involved in.

[AgingAmerican]

73. They don't 'report'

nt

[Person 2713]

56. Amazingly your nazi comment is ok on DU

nice to know

Michael Medved Show on FOX Talk Radio yesterday. ( August 10)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=511082

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Comparing or calling BLM activists Nazis and fascists is extremely offensive

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Aug 11, 2015, 04:11 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: If a comment is needed that is sad

[Smarmie Doofus]

61. "By their deeds you shall know them."

What is this thing some people have... this compulsion... to control everybody else's speech?

You're here for how long? 3 months or something? And you're the arbiter of what speech should and should not be allowed.

Is it that you can't completely control what Sanders says ( although not for lack of effort or desire) so you're trying to control mine?

If you don't think they're nazis don't call them nazis. Leave the rest of us alone.

Frivolous alert and an abuse of the system.

[Person 2713]

64. I was juror no 7 not the person that alerted . All that rant of yours wasted.

Guess what I call you??
Don't want me to be juror ? What a nazi you are that only people who think like you can be on the jury!

[Smarmie Doofus]

65. Gosh aren't you brilliant.

Bye.

[John Poet]

59. Calling BLM activists "nazis and fascists" is Pretty Goddamned Ugly!

WTF.

If you're quoting the right-winger, you should make that clear--
but it reads as if these words are YOUR choice to use.

Just. WRONG.

[Person 2713]

63. Jury Vote here on DU said leave it alone

nice to know
I was juror number 7 and thought it was just wrong no explanation needed . Guess I was wrong...

Michael Medved Show on FOX Talk Radio yesterday. ( August 10)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=511082

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Comparing or calling BLM activists Nazis and fascists is extremely offensive

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Aug 11, 2015, 04:11 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: If a comment is needed that is sad

[John Poet]

71. SHAMEFUL!

I've seen quite a few removed posts that were NOTHING like this one... and THIS is what gets left?!

[AgingAmerican]

72. He is a right wing whack job

He isn't the media.

[giftedgirl77]

101. Why are you using terms such as Nazi & crucify, why

are you putting them in caps? Is it because you were watching Fox? This whole victimization of Sanders portrayal is absolute fuckin nonsense.

[Smarmie Doofus]

103. Huh?

Did you read the post?

1. I didn't put "nazi" in caps. *You* gave it a ( single) cap. I didn't give it any.

2. I put "crucify" in caps for emphasis. ( You know, like people do?)

3. Medved's show is a .... get ready: caps again.... R A D I O... program. Hard to watch. No?

4. Our constitution guarantees us ( among other things) 1. freedom of speech; 2. freedom of assembly.

As it wasn't YOUR constitutional rights that were threatened and then denied, it's seems scarcely worth noting that your opinion on that score is not particularly consequential:

>>>This whole victimization of Sanders portrayal is absolute fuckin nonsense.>>>>

[giftedgirl77]

105. Still waiting on an explanation for the silly ass analogy.

My bad you we listening to Fox instead.

So, can you now explain the Nazis & crucifixion analogy?

[Smarmie Doofus]

108. People who behave like nazis....

..... shouldn't be shocked to hear themselves so described. If they are in some way shocked or offended: good. Maybe they'll reflect on their behavior. ( Most likely they won't; but it's worth a try.)

You *are* aware that the German Nazi party and other European fascist groups began in the 20's and 30s by breaking up and shutting down socialist and other rivals' public rallies and meetings? I hope so.

And... I don't know what you are talking about with the "crucifixion analogy." Everyone knows what crucifixion is... I think. Don't they?

Maybe I'm not understanding you. In the ( unlikely) event that Sanders is the nominee, the right is going to come after him on the grounds that he CAVED to extortion and threats in Seattle ( by for example, NOT having the ....whateveryouwannnacallem's ( "nazis" seems to get a lot of people upset; in the interest of communication, I'll employ a euphemism; for this post only.)... arrested for breaking up his rallies and ... according to some things I've been reading.... having them ( the "whatevers" ( how' bout "extortionists"!) help help him craft public positions more in liking to the extortionists.)

This will be a fateful ( and fatal) mistake... if indeed that comes to pass. You fight extortion; you don't surrender to it. If BS goes that route he will be DESTROYED ( Like that better than "crucified"?) by the right. No one wants a wimp as prez.

Which is not to say that's what he is. It is to say that's how he will successfully be portrayed by the other side.

Count on it.

Signing off.

[giftedgirl77]

109. No, you probably would've been better received if

you had avoided the hyperbolic nonsense. I was just trying to understand how you were equating a clearly oppressed minority with the Nazis & damned if you didn't make that pretzel logic work.

[thesquanderer]

113. Even *if* i accepted "caves," I don't think it's the issue you're making of it

re: "In the ( unlikely) event that Sanders is the nominee, the right is going to come after him on the grounds that he CAVED to extortion and threats in Seattle"

In the unlikely event Sanders in the nominee, I think the right is going to come after him with things that are much more noteworthy (to their audience) than that... major disagreements with positions he has had for decades (including his identification as a socialist), and sure, whatever little things that can make a flap about at the time, but at that point, all of this will be a little dust-up that will have happened a year earlier. It won't be "current" enough to have the weight of recency, nor is it substantial enough for it to have long term staying power of its own. The exception will be if he does, say, two more things over the next year that could be seen by opponents as "caving" - because then they can talk about it as a pattern, and as a trait. But in isolation, a year later, it will mean nothing, IMO. Certainly nothing that will escape the right-wing echo chamber and leak into mainstrem coverage. And without that, it doesn't matter, because the right-wing is not going to vote for Bernie no matter what (nor will they vote for Hillary).

[monmouth4]

14. "In the increasingly unlikely event that he's nominated...."...LOL. When HRC starts having 20K

people show at her gatherings, please get back to us..

[hack89]

21. She has a commanding and steady lead in the polls

these crowds won't mean shit come Super Tuesday and Bernie comes up against the true Democratic primary voter demographic. White progressive crowds in predominately white progressive cities is indicative of nothing other than his attraction to white progressives.

[monmouth4]

24. These thousands of people coming to hear him I would imagine are the true Democratic primary.

We will see..

[hack89]

26. I don't see large numbers of POC

Last edited Wed Aug 12, 2015, 07:40 AM - Edit history (2)

which represent a majority of primary voters in some primary states. SC will be the first test - AA voters are a large voting bloc. A bloc that right now leans HRC in a big way.

[Smarmie Doofus]

30. They have to, however, TURN OUT.

How'd she do there among POC in the 08 primary?

[hack89]

31. If BS was AA like Obama you might have a point

In 2015 she has an overwhelming lead with AA voters. Bernie is not going to change that. How do you think this BLM fracas is playing out in heavily AA areas? It certainly is not helping Bernie.

[Smarmie Doofus]

35. I think that's PRECISELY the idea.

>>>How do you think this BLM fracas is playing out in heavily AA areas? It certainly is not helping Bernie.>>>>

[John Poet]

55. You mean, South Carolina? eom

[hack89]

57. Yes. nt

[AgingAmerican]

74. Have you been to any of his events?

Are you qualified to say that, or are you just repeating the script?

[hack89]

87. Don't be so defensive nt

[Jester Messiah]

114. Reliably red South Carolina?

I mean yeah, primaries and all that, but in the grand scheme of things you know SC's electoral votes will go to whatever nightmare the Republicans barf up.

[hack89]

115. Primaries are all that matter right now. nt

[artislife]

38. I would be careful of polls

I discount them for any nominee. I just don't think they have the structure in place to really gage the public.

I live in Seattle and go to Portland. Portland is like going into Hotel California, easy to get in but almost impossible to get out.

Traffic is a nightmare in both cities. Bridges and water, one ways and cars, lots and lots of cars.

The people who showed up, did so with conviction. It isn't something you do for the fun of it.

I left my car half an hour away by foot, only because I know the little neighborhoods and found a spot where there wasn't Saturday parking. I did that because I knew the 3 buses I would have had to take would have at least 3,000 people trying to catch the same ride into the downtown to get the buses out to the surrounding neighborhoods and cities on a Saturday night after 9 pm.

He is going into the heart of the country after this. He will go to all 50 states, I believe. People like to be met and not discounted.

[hack89]

39. Seattle and Oregon are not NC

Much more VT type demographic. There is a reason he is campaigning there first instead of a battle ground state with a more diverse demographic. It is going to be ugly here the day after Super Tuesday.

[artislife]

40. But these are not the first two cities...

He has drawn 5,000 crowds elsewhere...I am sure you remember reading about those...
But enough.

You can live in hope for Super Tuesday.

Go for it!

Enjoy the ride.

[hack89]

42. Every election there is a candidate that is "different "

And to whom polls and conventional political wisdom do not apply. Until they do and reality sets in. Ask President Kucinich. Or President Trump.

[artislife]

43. Honestly, enjoy the ride

I know determination when I see it, I feel the same determination but for a different candidate.

Really, enjoy the ride. It is a great thing to elect a new president, to feel change coming in the air. There are new possibilities and a grateful nod to President Obama and we are away..

Enjoy!

[thesquanderer]

44. Or President Obama. (n/t)

[hack89]

45. Bernie can only dream that he closes the gap

And gets as close as Obama was to HRC in August of 2007. Not only was he much closer than BS is, unlike BS he had raised nearly $100 million. You have to ignore a lot of facts to think Bernie and the 2007 Obama have anything in common

[thesquanderer]

47. I was responding to...

Last edited Mon Aug 10, 2015, 08:42 PM - Edit history (1)

..."Every election there is a candidate that is 'different' And to whom polls and conventional political wisdom do not apply" - certainly no one gave Obama much of a chance early on.

But as long as you bring it up, it's not SO different from 2007 at this point.

Today's PPP poll shows Sanders at 25% to Clinton's 52%.
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2015/08/trump-still-leads-in-iowa-fiorina-on-fire-paul-tanking.html

Look at the 2007 polls from early August 2007... roughly speaking, mostly low 20s for Obama, low 40s for Clinton.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_Democratic_Party_2008_presidential_candidates

So yeah, a bigger gap, but not ridiculously so. In either case, HRC polls at somewhere near double her nearest challenger.

Edit: I realized that's not really a good comparison, because the PPP poll is just Iowa. Some of the national polls are not as good as that for Sanders. Though some are (i.e. a couple of Aug 3 polls are about the same, according to
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/ )

[AgingAmerican]

75. He is gaining 2% - 3% every week

And there are still SEVEN months til the first primary! Do the math...

Iowa Poll: Bernie Gaining on Hillary

[hack89]

88. He has leveled out

Look at the polls.

[AgingAmerican]

89. He won't peak for another 8 or 9 months

nt

[hack89]

90. Super Tuesday is 6 months away

that is where it will end for Bernie as he has to compete in states with significant minority voters and very few white progressives.

[AgingAmerican]

91. Like I said, he won't peak for another 8 or 9 months

Poll: Bernie Sanders surges ahead of Hillary Clinton in NH, 44-37

And that's just the primaries

[hack89]

92. It doesn't matter if he doesn't win Super Tuesday

if HRC sweeps Super Tuesday than it is too late for Bernie.

[AgingAmerican]

93. She won't sweep anything

By then her 'support' will be minimal and Bernie will be regularly hosting super-rallies of 100k+ people.

No Bernie supporters are switching to Hillary. Many, many Hillary supporters are switching to Sanders as are many Republicans.

No amount of hand wringing and attempts use race to paint Bernie negatively will slow him down.

Every time Her supporters show up at his rallies throwing stink bombs and accusing Bernie's supporters of being racists, the more new folks take a look at him and like what they see. Try as you may, you can't stop the truth. No amount of lies and throwing stink bombs will save Hillary.

[hack89]

100. "super-rallies of 100k+ people"

man - your humor is subtle. Took me awhile to catch on.

[AgingAmerican]

104. Millions...

Billions...

[hack89]

106. Brazilians? nt

[AgingAmerican]

107. Gazillions

A Jillion people...

[Smarmie Doofus]

32. He's got support. ( including.... up to now, anyway....ME.) However....

We're now seeing the lengths to which the system will go to get him off message.

Don't underestimate, TPTB; they will go to ANY lengths to protect the economic order.

You're allowed to talk about race in these things. ( i.e. presidential elections).

We've been doing it pretty much since Henry Wallace in 1948. It is, in fact, a quaddrenial ritual.

What you're NOT permitted to do is talk about CLASS. And anything that sounds like.... "spreading the wealth".

Just getting back to you.

[thesquanderer]

16. Sure, it's unlikely. But increasingly?

As unlikley as it may be, it seems a whole lot more likely today than it did when he announced a few months ago.

No one generally expects these things to move in a straight line, we can expect ups and downs in the polls, but I'm really curious to see what happens after the first debate.

[magical thyme]

36. he "caved" by not letting them bait him into having them arrested?

He caved by releasing a detailed plan to address structural injustice?

Or he is increasingly unlikely to be nominated after his crowds have doubled again?

[restorefreedom]

48. increasingly unlikely?

you need to get cable or,pick up a paper

bernie is slamming it, drawing huge crowds, and climbing in the polls.

[Smarmie Doofus]

49. He's doing ok. Or had been up to this BLM ( or whatever the hell it is) stunt.

Don't let the size of the crowds ... or their manifest enthusiasm... mislead you.

(This gem of wisdom goes back to the Goldwater era. )

There's no correlation there to electoral success. ( NONE!)

It simply means that one's *BASE* backs one. Enthusiastically.

The polls: there's a a lot of contradictory data. EZ to spin it one way or another.

For the record: I hope he wins. But wishin' don't make it so.

Big mistakes..... like caving to BLM extremists... can and will come back to haunt him.


And us.

[restorefreedom]

51. heard lester holt say

tonight within a few points in nh. and it is very early.

lots of reasons to be hopeful imo.

[cyberswede]

10. Wasn't the point of the BLM protests to get him to address race issues more clearly?

It's not so much a blessing in disguise as a successful method to get his attention.

i don't actually think the BLM protesters are against Sanders, rather they are frustrated by what they feel is his campaign not addressing issues of importance to POC.

[thesquanderer]

17. The reason I called it "blessing in disguise"...

...is that so many people seemed to be think BLM was dealing him some kind of crippling blow, that he'd screwed up, that he'd never win a substantial black vote, basically that it was a disaster for him. That response actually surprised me. But regardless, in the end, far from being a disaster, I think it has resulted in his making his campaign stronger.

[PeaceNikki]

11. It wasn't "in disguise". They affected change.

[thesquanderer]

19. That's a great MLK quote

though I don't think Sanders represents the "white moderate" he describes there.

As for my use of the "blessing in disguise" phrase, I elaborate on that in post #17.

[PeaceNikki]

23. No, but I think a number of his supporters do.

[Bjorn Against]

25. As do a number of Hillary supporters.

[PeaceNikki]

28. Absolutely.

[Walk away]

13. Am I the only one who is sick of hearing about racism being a problem of the poor?

I honestly don't know one "poor" or "disadvantaged" black person. To me all of the Black, White, Brown etc people I come in contact with are all middle class, working class or upper middle class. They are my clients, neighbors and friends and have the same concerns and problems that I have. Except for one important difference. They have to deal with racism and I don't. They have to worry about their teenagers being arrested for nothing but the color of their skin. They have to be terrified when their sons and daughters are late coming home because they could be murdered by police who never pay for that crime.

Poverty is a hugely important issue but it is not the only issue and ending it certainly won't cure racism. Ask any Black family living in Middle Class America.

Why BS insists on equating poverty with racism I don't know.

[thesquanderer]

15. It's not a matter of equating poverty with racism

If you check the link to his page on race-related issues, you'll see numerous things there besides economic issues. OTOH, you also can't ignore that poverty disproportionately affects POC because of institutional racism, so the two are not completely unconnected, either.

But I think it is the perception that he's too focussed on that side that led him to list economic issues as the last of the items he discussed there.

[azmom]

27. Just because you don't come into contact with them

Doesn't mean they aren't there. I know lots of poor and disadvantaged people.
White, black and brown. There are cities all over the United states that have huge numbers of poor people.

[Walk away]

50. Obviously, but what does that have to do with racism?

That is a question of poverty. Anyone can be poor.

[Person 2713]

67. Thanks for understanding

[Person 2713]

58. + 100K. Yes I agree to those who don't -be a minority and get back to me on economics

Yes there are plenty of poor
& yes racism doesn't have anything to do with being poor from my perspective

[thesquanderer]

62. Racism has NOTHING to do with being poor?

You don't think the economic deck is stacked against POC?

Of course not all poor people are minorities, and not all minority folk are poor. But economic hardships do fall disporortionately on POC. As I mentioned in an earlier post, institutional racism certainly plays a part. I'd be surprised if any Democrat disagrees with that.

[Person 2713]

66. Minorities being poor has to do with racism . Not the other way around .

Escaping poverty does nothing to escape racism. Having a good education will not help against racism . it is a separate issue as the poster I was replying to pointed out

[thesquanderer]

78. I half agree with you.

Largely true: "Escaping poverty does nothing to escape racism. Having a good education will not help against racism . "

However, I don't think poverty and racism are completely separate issues, either. For example, if racism plays into the difficulty in getting a good job, then it is a contributing factor toward poverty.

[Armstead]

20. I'm pretty certain Sanders would....

have made such adjustments/expansions of his campaign without the bullshit confrontations.

If BLM and other group(s) -- including his current supporters -- had met with Sanders and his staff, pointed out his shortcomings, and told him he had to make some changes, I'm certain the same result would have been achieved -- without the headlines saying "Sanders being accused of not giving a shit about Black people" (paraphrased obviously) in the media.

[Vattel]

68. I guess I think the first protest was arguably useful. But the second was counterproductive,

and I doubt that BLM will advance their cause if they keep up that sort of nonsense. I hope that, because Sanders has been making his message on racism clearer, the confrontations will go away. Sanders has to resist the urge to pander to BLM while still fighting racial injustice in the ways he really believes it ought to be fought. I hated to see him describing Michael Brown as a victim of police misconduct. The DOJ report laid out a strong case that the evidence backed up Wilson's version of what happened. Cases like Bland and Tice and Garner are much clearer cases of police abuse. I also worry that BLM actually does see Sanders as the enemy, in which case I don't see how they can garner much support in the long run. I still hold out hope that most people in BLM see Sanders as an ally, but I really don't know.

[Armstead]

69. I saw their cofounder on TV toniute and steam came out of my ears

She said (slightly paraphrased but not much): "Yes Bernie Sanders has been on the front lines of civil rights for 50 years. But when confronted, he did not use the phrase 'Black Lives Matter." So he has to be called into question.

So Sanders deserves to tarred with innuendo that he is not sympathetic to the same goals as Black Lives Matter because he didn't use the three words of their approved brand?

It galled me because I had seen the clip below today. She's complaining about a guy who said these things below in 1991?

" target="_blank">

[Vattel]

70. Sanders said, "Of course black lives matter" at the Netroots event.

So the cofounder you saw didn't even get her facts straight.

[Chathamization]

102. BLM activist have been working with the Sanders campaign (as well as other campaigns)

The people involved in the protests (like the DOJ protest where Cornel West was arrested) and marches (the march here had economic equality as one of its major components) on Monday dwarfed the 2-3 individuals who demonstrated on Saturday. But like with other movements, the media will focus on what they want people to see, not what's happening. Which is how movements are generally treated - think Occupy, anti-war movements, etc. - ignore most of what's happening, and build an entire false narrative over one tiny sliver of what's happening.

[daredtowork]

46. Still hoping for Barbara Lee as his VP pick

I was originally hoping for Barbara Lee President/Bernie Sanders VP, but I'll settle for this.

[Le Taz Hot]

80. That's who I'm pushing for.

Both coasts. Yessss!!!!!!!

[daredtowork]

81. Any signs this could become a reality? nt

[Le Taz Hot]

82. Nah,

just wishful thinking. I'm sure he's just focused on the primaries at the moment. But I think he'll not betray this populist movement by "balancing the ticket" with a DINO. I think he'll stay true to his ideals.

[daredtowork]

84. Awwww. Seriously? nt

[Le Taz Hot]

85. It's justs too early.

I doubt he even has a short list yet but it wouldn't surprise me the least if Lee was on it. Why wouldn't she be? She's a proven liberal who's been in Congress forever and she's well respected. Losing her away from Congress wouldn't be as detrimental as, say, losing a liberal Senator (any 3 of them).

[daredtowork]

86. I can't even think of a down side to chosing her. Dream team. nt

[Skwmom]

52. Hmmm... I think the game involving BLM is far from played out.

And when I think of the different avenues it could take, it's really disturbing to say the least. However, people devoid of conscience will think nothing of inciting a racial divide if it will gain them their political goals and keep the 1% in control.

I really hope that I am wrong though I have a feeling that there are a lot of twisted actions yet to come.

[Hydra]

76. BLM shot themselves in the foot

And in the process Bernie took over their momentum, and gave him yet another reason to promote that he is a better choice than HRC.

They unintentionally did him a huge favor, as well as the unity movement. Not many people are liking this divisive feel they are bringing to the movement.

[apnu]

95. This presumes BLM is some kind of Hillary astro-turf

Which I find very hard to believe.

I think BLM is its own thing and they're fine doing what they do.

I do agree with part of your point. Bernie's been great as changing and evolving his campaign on these issues. The BLM has challenged him and he rose to it and, like the greats, took the challenge and made it something useful.

That which does not kill, makes us stronger, right? Bernie's actions thus far have proved it.

I don't think the BLM did any thing unintentionally. I think they got what they wanted out of Bernie, that is, to talk about social justice. Granted, Bernie's the kind of guy who was going to talk about it anyway, like he always has, but still they got him to talk about it now, and that's fine.

[AgingAmerican]

110. I don't believe BLM is astro turf

But it's pretty obvious that some who proport to speak on their behalf are.

[apnu]

111. Could be.

Fast and loose protest organizations like this tend to get confusing fast. OWS had that problem. Every Western hacktivist organization has that problem.

On our side of things its hard to tell sometimes.

On the right, however, we can guess pretty accuratly that 100% of their protest organizations are astro-turf. Yeah I'm looking at you teabagers. Bite me!

[delrem]

77. I think it's insulting to say that Symone D Sanders was hired as a token

of appeasement to anything.

I don't think #BowDownBernie and #BernieSoBlack are fair.
I don't think they allow a reasonable discussion to happen, because of how they're so unfairly framed - and how they deny the voice of the accused.

But maybe you think that's cool, and with no more ado #blacklivesmatter founders having private (no press) chats with Hillary Clinton, to prove Hillary's creds, is cool too.

I don't.

[cloudythescribbler]

79. bernie sanders needs to do more

the steps taken so far are a beginning, but bernie sanders needs to make sure that the issue of the new jim crow and the modern day analogue to the pattern of lynchings that accompanied jim crow in police killings is part of his standard stump speech, along with plutocracy and climate catastrophe

refocusing his campaign into a full-fledged rainbow requires more than just putting some good positions up on his website

[Le Taz Hot]

83. And what do you suggest those other candidates do?

You know, the ones without the 50-year history of Civil Rights activism? Just curious.

[hay rick]

97. ^^^^

[Le Taz Hot]

98. **crickets**

[demwing]

99. Dont expect much

that DUer has posted only 2,243 times since 2004. Ya gotta wonder - what exactly activated this post?

[thesquanderer]

112. I'm the OP and I've "only" posted about 2000 times since 2004...

...some of us have lives outside online discussion groups.

[demwing]

116. Wrong. All of us have outside lives.

And I note that you still haven't answered LTH's question....

[bettyellen]

117. squandered your goodwill with "Sure, it 's been ridiculous" . Nope nope nope.

I skimmed the rest to see if "marching with MLK" was the first thing you have mentioned Bernie has done for POC.
It's an answer to a question that BLM is not asking This is why so many suggested he listen. He has- but you? Not so much.