Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 01:03 PM Jul 2015

Bernie Sanders Voted Against the FIRST GULF WAR. His Words That Day Were Prescient!

When Bush Sr and Cheney were preparing to go to war with Saddam Hussein claiming to be protecting Kuwait from an unlawful invasion (they always have their excuses don't they as if that should be any of OUR business) there WAS opposition to military action, though you might not have known it at the time.

Many pleaded for a Diplomatic Solution which fell on deaf ears.

When they finally went to Congress to get Autorization, one day after the war began, for their ill-conceived adventure Bernie Sanders stood alone in an empty chamber delivering the speech ALL democrats should have delivered!

Here are some of Bernie Sanders words which accurately predicted the tragic outcome of that 'good war', which we were told was supported by 90% of Americans. It took courage back then to do what Bernie did but he wasn't going to allow politics to stop him from doing what was right:

Bernie Sanders Predicted Invading Iraq Would Cause 'More Wars for Years to Come' -- in 1991


In his speech, he warned that while the United States would be able to crush the vastly inferior Iraqi army, the destruction and bitterness the war would cause would “lay the groundwork for more and more wars for years to come.” He denounced our attentiveness to war and our inattentiveness to basic human needs, such as child starvation abroad and homelessness at home:

"We should make no mistake about it, today is a tragic day for humanity, for the people of Iraq, for the people of the United States, and for the United Nations as an institution. It is also a tragic day for the future of our planet and for the children, 30,000 of whom in the Third World will starve to death today as we spend billions to wage this war – and 25 percent of whom in our own country live in poverty in our country because we apparently lack the funds to provide them with a minimal standard of living. ...

"Despite the fact that we are now aligned with such Middle Eastern dictatorships such as Syria, a terrorist dictatorship, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, feudalistic dictatorships, and Egypt, a one-party state that receives seven billion dollars in debt forgiveness to wage this war with us, I believe that in the long run, the action unleashed last night will go strongly against our interests in the Middle East. Clearly the United States and allies will win this war, but the death and destruction caused, will in my opinion, not be forgotten by the poor people of the Third World and the people of the Middle East in particular. ...

"I fear that one day we will regret that decision and that we are in fact laying the ground work for more and more wars for years to come."




Regardless of the way the political wind was blowing, Sanders, who was a new Representative at the time stood against that tide, not worried about his political career and did the right thing, one of just a very few with the courage to do so.

THIS is the kind of leader we need. Someone who gets it RIGHT THE FIRST TIME and doesn't need to apologize after the horse has left the barn, or when the tide turns again.

He went on to vote against the Second Iraq Invasion, consistent as always, standing by his principles and GOOD JUDGEMENT regardless of the possible political fallout.

You can watch his entire speech here:



Right about our disastrous and tragic wars.

Right when he predicted the Wall St collapse.

Right about Civil Rights for all Americans way before it was politically safe to do so.

This country so badly needs a leader who has both the foresight and good judgement that Sen. Sanders clearly has.

And later, his speech demanding an end to the war to stop the bloodshed and violence:

72 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Bernie Sanders Voted Against the FIRST GULF WAR. His Words That Day Were Prescient! (Original Post) sabrina 1 Jul 2015 OP
You mean the latest Rovian hit piece isn't true? BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #1
Of course not! Lol! This is why I love being able to support someone that I know needs no struggle sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #2
That's why we just need to keep posting the record BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #3
Yes, your two step strategy is the best strategy. Especially since nothing they can come up with sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #6
"they are intended to get people caught up in trivia so they are not discussing the issues" BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #13
....! KoKo Jul 2015 #28
+1,000 Scuba Jul 2015 #42
Oh my, what have I not seen yet? cui bono Jul 2015 #45
Hahaha BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #48
What really struck me was the empty room. nt WDIM Jul 2015 #4
They were all outside with their fingers in the wind. Got the message and decided to vote for WAR! sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #5
Bush and Cheney were laying the groundwork for endless wars Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2015 #7
He has the qualities of a true leader. He has foresight, good judgment as his voting record sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #8
This cannot be stated enough BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #11
As a woman and having followed the devastating effects of war on women, documented sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #14
Wow, are you ever correct! BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #15
^^^this^^^ L0oniX Jul 2015 #39
Perfectly well said! Enthusiast Jul 2015 #41
+1,000,000 cui bono Jul 2015 #46
Well, I've always felt the most extreme American religious fundamentalists raouldukelives Jul 2015 #62
+ 1,000,000,000 What You Said !!! WillyT Jul 2015 #64
One of many concerns about Clinton is how would she decide on countering policy that her husband Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #16
I don't think she has truly evolved on most issues BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #18
I agree, but if she is not ever confronted with what has been the result of these policies Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #21
Careful, whenever you ask about her husband's policies, some of which BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #31
I ignore that noise. The policies from that era that have caused harm are Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #32
She gave a speech on mass incarceration and police violence BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #33
Yep, I saw that and once again, we have a difficult time getting to those pointed questions. Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #34
I don't think they will ever ask the questions, and if they do, she won't answer BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #35
I know, it is very frustrating. Recall when Sanders asked Clinton what she thought about TPP Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #36
And as far as I know her only answer was "follow Pelosi" BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #37
Right, which gives Sanders every right to state unequivally that she will not answer Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #38
I guess they thought that was a clever answer. They should stop underestimating sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #69
The SC just struck down the Three Strikes Law. That was such a horribly sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #49
I just looked it up and I guess Bill has taken some responsibility BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #50
Did she know that Three Strikes didn't mean 'violent offenders'. And that is sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #51
We haven't talked much about three strikes being overturned and we should BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #56
Well, that's the problem. We don't know where she stands on so many issues. sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #19
Yes, I want her and everyone for that matter, asked many questions covering a broad spectrum. Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #22
That's the job of the press. Bernie doesn't seem to have any problem with the press sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #23
Sanders and O'Malley may need to keep that alive..Bernie has utlized that I believe when he Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #24
Someone said he did vote for the Gulf War? I thought they were talking about Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #9
I take every attempted smear against Bernie as an opportunity to post his excellent record sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #10
+1. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #12
+1 That is the way Bernie does it too. nt Live and Learn Jul 2015 #17
He's a good teacher. Lol, I even saw two Republicans this week follow his example when an sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #20
He is a good teacher. I hope we all learn something from him. Live and Learn Jul 2015 #53
he did vote yes on kosovo. mopinko Jul 2015 #60
K&R! K&R! K&R! K&R! Phlem Jul 2015 #25
This is one of many reasons why I support the FRINGE candidate! PatrickforO Jul 2015 #26
K & R historylovr Jul 2015 #27
Kick madfloridian Jul 2015 #29
Thank God for C-SPAN AwakeAtLast Jul 2015 #30
K&R! This post deserves hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Jul 2015 #40
oh yeah? d'you know who else doesn't change their mind on things? Pat BUCHANAN! MisterP Jul 2015 #43
There is a comical absence of a certain segment from this thread. Bonobo Jul 2015 #44
You beat me to it, Bonobo. They are very conspicuously absent. kath Jul 2015 #47
They're probably too busy laughing ... NanceGreggs Jul 2015 #52
So typical really. TM99 Jul 2015 #54
Those who could have lived had Bernie not been among the very few who sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #55
Of all the things to laugh at, that was probably the worst choice you could have made. Bonobo Jul 2015 #57
... NanceGreggs Jul 2015 #71
Awesome-- a very prescient man. Glad he recognizes that war is a racket. Fast Walker 52 Jul 2015 #58
He saw the future, and no one listened to him. beemer27 Jul 2015 #59
i can't vote for a gun nut stonecutter357 Jul 2015 #61
One issue voters elected bushitler. lonestarnot Jul 2015 #63
I'm the same way about war mongers... Indepatriot Jul 2015 #65
Well it's a good thing Bernie isn't a gun nut. hootinholler Jul 2015 #66
Let them keep doing what they are doing. It is only harming their own candidate and sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #72
Well, I reluctantly supported the First Gulf War. malthaussen Jul 2015 #67
Informed, thoughtful and fearless. eom. JEB Jul 2015 #68
And consistent! d_legendary1 Jul 2015 #70

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
2. Of course not! Lol! This is why I love being able to support someone that I know needs no struggle
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 01:59 PM
Jul 2015

to defend. All you have to do is post his record.

It's been a long time since I could do that.

Rove tactic: 'Don't attack your opponent on his/her weaknesses. Attack them on their strengths'

The problem now is we know that old tactic. So far every such attempt only caused more support for Bernie Sanders as people are sick and tired of having the candidates THEY want smeared and attacked paid for by Corporate money.

I wonder how many Think Tanks they are paying millions of dollars to try to stop Bernie right now.

The three surrogates with their 'socialist' attempt, only had it backfire on them as these old Think Tanks appear to be way out of touch with the times we now live in.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
3. That's why we just need to keep posting the record
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 02:05 PM
Jul 2015

They will try to overwhelm with all the hit pieces. They even have a website dedicated to "correcting the record" if anyone tries to hit her, a super pac that is skirting the rules of campaign coordination because it is not on traditional media. That means that is what they in fact intend to do.

I expect many, many more of these hit pieces. I will follow your lead:

Step 1: Do not respond or kick thread. Let it sink.
Step 2: Post facts and record

That's all you have to do. They are hoping all the uninformed voters will take the bait, and believe me, they will. The red baiting is their ace in the hole, but they are trying to put up everything and see what sticks right now. The gun nut campaign, coordinated with the O'Malley super pac is the one they are trying now. When they find a good one, all that campaign cash from those $2700 a plate dinners will be mobilized. But it seems that she wants to appear to be above the fray, so it will be attacks from other quarters and then she has an alibi.

It just actually shows that she has no intention of running on her record. She is in fact running from it.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
6. Yes, your two step strategy is the best strategy. Especially since nothing they can come up with
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 02:21 PM
Jul 2015

is going to work when people SEE THE RECORD. I don't know why anyone goes into those threads, they are intended to get people caught up in trivia so they are not discussion the issues.

The NEVER talk about their candidate, on the issues, why is that? The seem more interested in talking about Bernie.

I LOVE talking about MY CANDIDATE ON THE ISSUES.

Because I can, because his record is almost perfect on every single issue over the past several decades and there is no smear on his record that cannot be an opportunity to focus on the ISSUES as Bernie wants to do.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
13. "they are intended to get people caught up in trivia so they are not discussing the issues"
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 02:49 PM
Jul 2015

That is exactly right. I will try to follow the two step process. I think it is the only way to go. And the interesting thing is whenever you post the real record, it goes to the top of the greatest page (which means anyone poking around DU will see it). So it does always backfire in the case of DU. And yes, they should start talking up their candidate and the issues instead of taking pot shots and posting memes only. It would make the board much better and cut down on the infighting if everyone posted threads advocating positions.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
45. Oh my, what have I not seen yet?
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 11:46 PM
Jul 2015


I think I found it!

So the attack is now that Bernie is too right wing for Hillary supporters? I'm sooooo confused. When will they make up their minds???



EDITED


sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
5. They were all outside with their fingers in the wind. Got the message and decided to vote for WAR!
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 02:11 PM
Jul 2015

Bernie otoh, just votes for what is right. That is why he is the right candidate now after decades of WRONG decisions that have cost this and other countries so much.

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
7. Bush and Cheney were laying the groundwork for endless wars
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 02:24 PM
Jul 2015

"I fear that one day we will regret that decision and that we are in fact laying the ground work for more and more wars for years to come."

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
8. He has the qualities of a true leader. He has foresight, good judgment as his voting record
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 02:28 PM
Jul 2015

demonstrates and the courage to stand up when it is necessary.

We do not need leaders who have to evolve on every major issue. That is fine for ordinary people, but NOT for leaders. Look at the consquences of having to wait for many of our Dems to evolve on these wars. If only they had had the good judgement and the courage to support those few who did. What a different world it might be now.

We HAVE to elect people, for President and Congress who have these qualities we can't wait any longer for our leaders to take years to evolve.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
11. This cannot be stated enough
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 02:46 PM
Jul 2015
We do not need leaders who have to evolve on every major issue. That is fine for ordinary people, but NOT for leaders.


I would say that with the exception of women's issues, on which Clinton has always been a leader and did focus on it at state, the major issues have required an evolution. That should make anyone pause.

Iraq War (military aggression in general as she is now going after Iran)
Marriage Equality
Immigration
Mass Incarceration and the War on Drugs
Trade Agreements

I am sure there are some that I am missing, but these are the CENTRAL issues of the 2016 election and she has been on the wrong side of EVERY SINGLE ONE. That right there is the most important argument to make. All else is theatre.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
14. As a woman and having followed the devastating effects of war on women, documented
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 02:56 PM
Jul 2015

by World Organizations I do not believe you can possibly support War and claim to support women.

Eg, in Iraq, women had the same equal rights in the workplace as men. Free education which produced women doctors, lawyers, teachers who were paid the same as men.

NOW, women in that country have been returned to the dark ages as our invasion unleashed fundamentalist control of the country and once independent and professional women, any who have not ended up in refugee camps for the past decade, cannot even go out alone without a man.

Afghanistan is another example of how women there who once enjoyed freedom to be doctors lawyers, wear western clothes etc, lost ALL Rights as HUMAN BEINGS after the two super powers decided to use their country as a chess board.

With that in mind, assuming women's rights are not just for American women, who are also sorely lacking in that department re poverty, war where we sending them off to die in these imperial wars and Rape is rampant in our military with little recourse for female soldiers, I cannot support anyone who supports these egregious foreign policies that have destroyed women's rights in every country we invade.

Libya is another. I could go on and on as I have been following women and the terrible effects our wars have had on them for years.

Another reason I cannot support Hillary. Bernie otoh, is aware of all these things.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
15. Wow, are you ever correct!
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 02:59 PM
Jul 2015

That really makes me think. I hope a lot of people read what you wrote and think about it too.

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
62. Well, I've always felt the most extreme American religious fundamentalists
Mon Jul 6, 2015, 09:33 AM
Jul 2015

Have far more in common with radical Islam than they have differences.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend, as it were. As evidenced by the hand holding and gentle kisses I see them receiving on the grounds of the capital my forefathers fought and died for.

To them, one giant Dubai would be a great thing. One giant "family", as it were.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
16. One of many concerns about Clinton is how would she decide on countering policy that her husband
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 03:02 PM
Jul 2015

enacted. One example is the Telecommunications Act 1996, which has had terrible results.

She could continue to support it, ignore it, but these kinds of issues should be confronted and any change
would alter/damage his legacy...conflict of interest.



BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
18. I don't think she has truly evolved on most issues
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 03:08 PM
Jul 2015

She runs in the circles of the masters of the universe, and they are elitists to their very core. She is throwing some candy to the base but her real point of view is that the proles do not know how to govern and therefore just need to be placated, not actually listened to. Even on her "Listening Tour" she has been caught meeting with staffers instead of real people. That tells you how much she cares about what the average voter has to say.

She has shown that she will vote whichever way the polls go, including for the IWR. But the ultimate goal of any centrist is to shovel money up to the top. Obama's presidency has been exactly that. A little present or two on some social issues, but always siding with bankers and corporations when it comes to money. The huge push for the TPP. The Clinton presidency would look exactly the same way. Anyone who thinks any differently is lying to themselves.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
21. I agree, but if she is not ever confronted with what has been the result of these policies
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 03:20 PM
Jul 2015

which include her husbands, she won't need to answer. Whether one trusts her to follow through
is different in my mind. Get her on the record to either support them or not.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
31. Careful, whenever you ask about her husband's policies, some of which
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 05:07 PM
Jul 2015

she personally campaigned for, like the crime bill, then you will be called a sexist. She can claim credit for the good stuff but doesn't need to take responsibility for the bad stuff. Win win.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
32. I ignore that noise. The policies from that era that have caused harm are
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 05:19 PM
Jul 2015

more than fair questions. If she does not agree there has been harm she needs to say so,
that would tell me a great deal as well. So yes, if she takes on the job of president she
must consider poor policies from prior administrations.

There is ample evidence of harm from Glass-Stegall to the telecom act to name just two.
How to get those questions asked directly may be a real problem.

I want to hear from Sanders on issues I disagree with too.



BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
33. She gave a speech on mass incarceration and police violence
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 05:41 PM
Jul 2015

Her two proposals were

- Body cameras on cops
- Community policing programs
- Some talk of sentencing changes

Nowhere in the speech did she acknowledge the Crime Bill that passed during Bill's tenure. Nowhere did she admit that she personally campaigned for Three Strikes laws. She acted as she has been since she has announced, as a Champion! of the solution for the problem which she at one time supported. It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

http://www.vox.com/2015/4/29/8514831/hillary-clinton-criminal-justice-transcript

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
34. Yep, I saw that and once again, we have a difficult time getting to those pointed questions.
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 05:53 PM
Jul 2015

Why were you campaigning for it in the first place. These are all fair questions, getting her to be
asked those questions directly will take some effort.

The irony of the telecommunications act is that the msm which is heavily relied upon would have to then admit they're
part of the problem..makes me very upset because they don't talk about it.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
35. I don't think they will ever ask the questions, and if they do, she won't answer
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 06:05 PM
Jul 2015

The fact that people think that's ok astounds me.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
36. I know, it is very frustrating. Recall when Sanders asked Clinton what she thought about TPP
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 06:08 PM
Jul 2015

through the press, and asked her to join him?

I hope to see more of that, it may be the only way on other issues too.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
38. Right, which gives Sanders every right to state unequivally that she will not answer
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 06:14 PM
Jul 2015

questions. Why should Americans trust an individual that wants to be president but
won't answer?

People can decide why that is when she leaves them no alternative.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
69. I guess they thought that was a clever answer. They should stop underestimating
Mon Jul 6, 2015, 01:30 PM
Jul 2015

the people who have been deceived so often now, the KNOW when it's happening. I saw the reaction to that 'clever' statement. People knew the fix was in.

The people were right. They should stop trying to deceive the people. Just tell the truth. But it does show that Bernie is right, the people do still have some power left or they wouldn't bother trying to hide so much from us.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
49. The SC just struck down the Three Strikes Law. That was such a horribly
Mon Jul 6, 2015, 01:23 AM
Jul 2015

unjust, unconstitutional piece of legislation that I am shocked to know that it was Clinton who signed it.

It went without much notice but it was a huge victory for Civil Rights activists and fair judges who for years have tried to have it overturned.

Again, have those who supported it evolved now, far, far too late for all the lives that were ruined.

It probably did help fill up the prisons providing bodies for the Prison Industrial Complex, a brutal for profit system which in so many ways is enslaving millions of American citizens who never should have been in jail.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
50. I just looked it up and I guess Bill has taken some responsibility
Mon Jul 6, 2015, 01:44 AM
Jul 2015

Bill Clinton concedes role in mass incarceration
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/06/politics/bill-clinton-crime-prisons-hillary-clinton/

But Hillary Clinton personally campaigned for Three Strikes, so she can't say this was just her husband's policy. This is a direct quote from 1994. They say that "tough on crime" appeals to young white mothers and is used to attract that vote.

We need more police, we need more and tougher prison sentences for repeat offenders. The three strikes and you’re out for violent offenders has to be part of the plan. We need more prisons to keep violent offenders for as long as it takes to keep them off the streets.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
51. Did she know that Three Strikes didn't mean 'violent offenders'. And that is
Mon Jul 6, 2015, 01:49 AM
Jul 2015

unconstitutional. Totally. Each crime should be judged on its merit, to overturn that principle was a slap in the face to our judicial system. I'm less and less impressed with lawyers in this country frankly. Either there is something wrong with our law schools or the Constitution itself is under attack on purpose.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
56. We haven't talked much about three strikes being overturned and we should
Mon Jul 6, 2015, 02:40 AM
Jul 2015

I think her speech was before the ruling. Our judicial system is totally messed up because of the war on drugs. She did acknowledge that but didn't give much in terms of specifics on how to fix it.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
19. Well, that's the problem. We don't know where she stands on so many issues.
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 03:18 PM
Jul 2015

And we need a record to back up anything any candidate now says while they are campaigning.

The ONLY candidate who has that record is Bernie Sanders.

I have said this many times, and will keep on saying it, it is fine to evolve on issues if you are not in a position of power where good judgement and foresight and the courage to implement those qualities at critical times, see Iraq eg, but when you are asking us to give you the most important job in the country where being able to foresee the results of a decision is extremely important, you don't have that luxury, and most importantly WE don't have that luxury.

All these candidates are asking for a job. Like any job, we have to look at their work experience, how they handled important decisions etc.

Hillary may evolve now on some issues, but if her record shows she made wrong decisions at critical times and took years to acknowledge how wrong those decisions were, while we have another applicant whose record is almost perfect on decision making, then there really is no other choice.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
22. Yes, I want her and everyone for that matter, asked many questions covering a broad spectrum.
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 03:25 PM
Jul 2015

I'm not confident our debates will be enough to accomplish that.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
23. That's the job of the press. Bernie doesn't seem to have any problem with the press
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 03:31 PM
Jul 2015

asking him questions on the issues. Politicians have to respect the fact that the people will be using the press to inform them on where they stand, so they need to use it themselves to make the press properly represents their views.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
24. Sanders and O'Malley may need to keep that alive..Bernie has utlized that I believe when he
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 03:37 PM
Jul 2015

asked Clinton to speak out about TPP. I imagine he'll be doing much more of that. The types of
questions asked on the debate level can be limiting, thus my concern.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
9. Someone said he did vote for the Gulf War? I thought they were talking about
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 02:38 PM
Jul 2015

Kosovo.

I fail to understand the strategy, the man's record is documented, he has tried to
work within the system as he learned in Vermont the alternative led to little
accomplishments.

The question people should consider is why is this man asking for a political
revolution at this point in time. Should be fairly easy to discern that he is
explaining why the system does not work..plutocracies are not democracies.

Thank you sabrina for the OP.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
10. I take every attempted smear against Bernie as an opportunity to post his excellent record
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 02:43 PM
Jul 2015

Last edited Mon Jul 6, 2015, 01:14 AM - Edit history (1)

with the facts. It's so easy to do. I do not go into threads that try to distort the record, I make sure though whenever I see the latest attempts, to correct the record where people can judge for themselves.

I don't get it either, this attempt to deceive on something that is so easily countered.

I do believe it is the intention to get people into those threads and distract from the issues.

So rather than bother with that nonsense, just post the truth.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
20. He's a good teacher. Lol, I even saw two Republicans this week follow his example when an
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 03:20 PM
Jul 2015

interviewer was trying to get them to comment on another candidate: 'I'm not here to talk about HIM, you will have to ask HIM that question'! It was hilarious, I guess they are all watching him now to see what the magic is that is bringing out the crowds and the donations from increasing numbers of voters.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
53. He is a good teacher. I hope we all learn something from him.
Mon Jul 6, 2015, 02:11 AM
Jul 2015

DU could certainly use some of his lessons at the moment.

PatrickforO

(14,600 posts)
26. This is one of many reasons why I support the FRINGE candidate!
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 03:46 PM
Jul 2015

What he said in this speech was right on the money.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
44. There is a comical absence of a certain segment from this thread.
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 11:27 PM
Jul 2015

There simply is nothing they can say.

NanceGreggs

(27,820 posts)
52. They're probably too busy laughing ...
Mon Jul 6, 2015, 02:10 AM
Jul 2015

... at the idea that on top of all of his other endless virtues, Bernie is also "prescient".

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
54. So typical really.
Mon Jul 6, 2015, 02:17 AM
Jul 2015

Nitpick a word that is actually accurate instead of addressing the meat of the OP.

He was right. He has been right on quite a few issues that are now at the forefront of our current primary campaign. He has not had to evolve. He is showing and has shown leadership skills and that upsets the Clinton supporters who must be content with a follower or opportunitist, take your pick.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
55. Those who could have lived had Bernie not been among the very few who
Mon Jul 6, 2015, 02:22 AM
Jul 2015

were prescient, who knew that this would cause so much death and destruction, regardless of the lies that our 'smart bombs' were capable of going down chimneys and hitting ONLY the bad guys, they CAN'T laugh.

Thanks for your comment. I remember Byrd's words when he too was prescient regarding the next and predictable war considering the criminals who were running things then 'I weep for my country' but he too thought about and mentioned the victims in Iraq who would die though even those of us who most opposed these wars could not have imagined the brutality and the war crimes our own country commit.

No one who cares about human beings is laughing. But I'm sure there are plenty who do, which is why we are where we are.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
57. Of all the things to laugh at, that was probably the worst choice you could have made.
Mon Jul 6, 2015, 03:10 AM
Jul 2015

In fact, he was prescient in this case, or rather it would be more accurate to say that he showed wisdom.

In either case, the lack of the same on the part of Hillary is rather an ugly and festering wound on her suitability to be POTUS.

beemer27

(463 posts)
59. He saw the future, and no one listened to him.
Mon Jul 6, 2015, 08:56 AM
Jul 2015

Had we not invaded Iraq, there would be no Isis. There would have been no American troops killed in those pointless wars, and the national debt would not be where it is now. I would love to see a man this wise in the White House. He will not be able to cure all that is wrong in Washington, but he will be able to make some difference. Perhaps the government will consider the effects of it's decisions on all the people instead of doing everything just for business and wall street.

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
66. Well it's a good thing Bernie isn't a gun nut.
Mon Jul 6, 2015, 11:49 AM
Jul 2015

But this thread isn't about Bernie's positions on reasonable gun control which aligns with every liberal gun owner's views that I know.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
72. Let them keep doing what they are doing. It is only harming their own candidate and
Tue Jul 7, 2015, 01:12 AM
Jul 2015

since most of it is the same old negative garbage people are so sick of, we don't have to worry about it other than show people what OTHER politicians are doing while Bernie is not engaging in those nasty tactics but continues to talk about the issues people care about.

And yes, the gun thing isn't going to help them at all, I don't know who their target audience is, but as you say, Dems own guns too and Bernie's position on guns is mainstream and is going to HELP him rather than hurt him.

malthaussen

(17,219 posts)
67. Well, I reluctantly supported the First Gulf War.
Mon Jul 6, 2015, 12:41 PM
Jul 2015

As a general principle, I do think aggression should be discouraged, especially against countries with whom we are more-or-less friendly. That the same can be applied to our own aggression is an unfortunate detail.

There was, after all, no doubt or propaganda about the fact that Iraq did invade Kuwait, overtly and with malice aforethought. (Whether or not the attack was justified -- or justifiable -- is a separate issue)

As for response leading to chaos, I think the area has been in chaos for quite some time, and if it can be said our actions haven't helped any, I wonder how much our actions have really added to the problem. I think, for example, that ISIS would be wiping the floor with the Iraqi army even if they didn't have abandoned US equipment to use. Revolutions tend to get a lot of equipment from the national army to begin with. Just look at, eg, Cuba and Vietnam.

-- Mal

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Bernie Sanders Voted Agai...