This message was self-deleted by its author

[Grey Lemercier]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Grey Lemercier) on Wed Nov 30, 2016, 10:39 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Renew Deal]

1. Democrats need a message for all Americans

What was the Democratic Party message in 2016 other than "not Trump"?

[bravenak]

3. Honestly?

We just need to sit back, stfu, and watch Trump embarass himself for a while. Then attack ads need to start playing in between contests. And lets chant 'lock him up!' 'criminal' 'Dizzy Donald!' Thats the kinda shit they respond to. This was not about jobs. His supporters made more money than hers.

We need to stop lying to ourselves about what part of his message worked. Deport muslims, build the wall, and lock her up. Those are the three I still hear in my backwater red state of AK. Oh and that Democrats negotiated nafta and hate coal mines and Trump is going to make companies open factories that they dont need to give out good jobs.

We would have to lie our asses off to get these people. When informed about automation, they just get mad and look a bit blank. I told one that those jobs were never coming back. He called me a dumb nigger.

[Renew Deal]

8. You made my point

You can clearly recite the 2016 republican message. Is it so easy to clearly recite the Democratic message?

Sitting back and watching the disaster is exactly the wrong thing to do. Attack ads don't work well with known quantities.

[bravenak]

10. What else can we do?

How do you compete with a known liar and crook who lies real loud and his supporters DO NOT CARE. They dont care if he is lying, we put that black muslim in the whitehouse and they were going to make us pay. It's just the Tea Party redux, they used the fact that we chose clinton to enter into an orgasmic delight of hate and self indulgence.

There is actually no message that can compete with that. Our message was unity, working together, a better future. When fuck mexicans spics and niggers trumps stronger together, nothing you can do. We even got more votes!

Are we willing to join them in deportations, wall buildings and putting women and blacks back in their places? Cause that's what it takes to get them fired up.

Best to get more of our people out in swing states and focus on getting more charismatic candidates who are young enough to not have thirty years of baggage. They dont actually have a target for their hate anymore and are all over the place now. They came together with help from the left to focus on criminalizing and tearing down our candidate. We need to work together better and stop trying to compete with them for their voters. We have enough. We just had them depressed as hell because we could not control the entity known as donald. He is like no other candidate. The media really boosted him. I hope they learn to do their jobs.

[yallerdawg]

26. It was a definite and profound whitelash...

and it cut across parties - judging from the primary results in those disputed states.

[guillaumeb]

27. "an orgasmic delight of hate and self indulgence"?

Sounds like an ad for a movie. Or a very rich dessert.

Lost in a lot of the finger pointing and hand waving is the fact that Clinton won the popular vote. In spite of all the GOP lies, in spite of a corporate media that focused obsessively on emails and the Clinton foundation, Hillary Clinton won the popular vote.

And that is something to build on. But the media frames the issues and that media framing makes it difficult to get a progressive message out.

[bravenak]

2. I'll just post this link here

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/11/white-working-class-another-form-identity-politics

[Grey Lemercier]

5. great article

I read LabourList a lot

[virgogal]

4. I'm white---and I'm to blame??????

Thanks a lot.

[Grey Lemercier]

7. I take it you didn't even bother to read the article

especially the part where they did not say ALL whites

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

16. I guess white people are not welcome anymore

Since we are all racists by default...especially if we come from rural areas.

This is like the 10th fucking anti white people thread on here in the last couple of days.

Just imagine the outrage if anyone made these idiotic threads about black people or hispanic people, or muslims or LGBTs, etc.

It is FUCKING STUPID.

[Grey Lemercier]

17. You just seem to not undertsand what the article is saying. In the rush to toss "identity politics"

under the bus, people are forgetting that Trump won on identity politics, white nationalism. Now, once again, there are all these calls to reach out yet again to rural whites voters who ARE racists. Sorry, if they voted for an OPEN racist candidate, Trump, that makes them racist. We are wasting our time trying to pander to them, They are too far gone.

By tossing "identity politics" out there as a reason for defeat, many are inherently use dog whistles for us PoC, us LGBTQ's, and also immigrants, etc., as scapegoats. The Democratic party needs US to win, and by ceding awaying the game of racial politics to a "whites only can play" stance, the party and the country is doomed.

[RBInMaine]

28. That all rural whites are "racist" is DISGUSTING to think let alone to say. SHAME ON YOU!!

Rural Trump voters are not mostly "racist." They are economically beaten down, frustrated with politics as usual, and justifiably angry. They are also sick to death of political correctness on steroids and elitist attitudes toward them and their culture.

Trump gave them a clear anti-establishment message and economic hope. He connected on those levels in ways Hillary didn't. Simple as that.

[Grey Lemercier]

30. no one said ALL whites, rural or otherwise were racist, stop it

smdh

[Anaxamander]

23. It's hard not to feel attacked

with threads like this. I've been here since 2003, but I don't peek my head out very often. I feel like a lot of people are lashing out right now.

[Larkspur]

6. HRC and Tim Kaine are white people, so guess this theory is correct?

The real reason is that HRC did not read the electorate correctly, therefore her campaign made strategic mistakes.

When businesses go bankrupt, it's not the fault of the customers, it is the fault of the businessman/woman.

[Grey Lemercier]

9. we had massive drop/offs in black voters, plus Latinos and blacks voted in higher percentages for

Trump than they did for Romney or McCain.

If the Rethugs are going to played hardball racism, then the Democratic Party needs to up votes of my fellow people of colour. Chasing after mouth breathing racist bible bangers in Tinytown, USA will just end in further destruction of the country.

The demographics are entirely in our favour. We need to expand the size of the House of Representatives (and thus the number of Electoral College votes) so the nazi rethugs cannot "kettle" or "cage" our overwhelming numbers in CA, NY, etc. We need a FAIR distribution of House seat and EV's which increasing the House to 1001, or whatever number, will give.

[Larkspur]

11. I live in a small town and am white. i abhor Nazism.

I also come from a small town in Illinois. My parents, brothers and me all considered ourselves Democrats.

I resent POC calling all of us whites Nazis or racists. To me that is reverse racism and only contributes to dividing us further.
Whites are still the majority in this nation and will be for some time. To ignore or belittle whites is to ensure defeat for Democrats and progressives going forward. A defeated Democratic Party will not be able to fight for the needs of minorities and the working class of all races.

[Grey Lemercier]

13. no one called all whites nazis

[radius777]

21. agree, we turn out the Obama coalition we win

every time, which is why IMO we should double down on turning out our base, the REAL base of the modern Dem party, i.e. metro areas and their adjacent suburbs and the demographics who inhabit them, i.e. PoC, immigrants, women, young people, social liberals, urban whites, moderates, etc.

We can and should reach out to secular working class whites, the types who have voted Dem (Bill Clinton, Obama) in the recent past.

Rural whites are too conservative, hooked on Fox news and white identity politics, and will never vote Dem, unless the party goes back to being a Dixiecrat party of the FDR era, that ignored social/racial concerns to appease white conservatives.

ps. Latino exit polls were wrong, who are difficult to poll due to language barriers and other reasons. Latino Decisions did a more extensive poll and found Trump got a historically low 18% amongst Latinos, whose increased turnout and vote for Hillary is likely what made states like Texas and Arizona closer than in past elections.

[Grey Lemercier]

22. "Trump got a historically low 18% amongst Latinos" oh wow, that is both good news and yet horrid too

I was of a mindset that we only needed to turn around 10% of the 28% (that seemed to be the national agreed upon number) to the Dem total to dominate in 2020, BUT if the real number is actual 18% or less, then we have to go find millions of votes elsewhere.

[treestar]

24. you are not a customer or analogous to one

as a US citizen. You have a duty to vote, do jury duty, participate as We The People are ultimately in charge. Acting like politicians are supposed to appeal to you and get you to "buy" them is a mistake. It's giving up on participation only, and letting those who do run things.

[radical noodle]

12. Even if it is true

So called identity politics... which seems to me to be the politics of standing up for the oppressed... had something to do with the results of this election, we should not leave our moral values in order to make white Christians feel more superior than they already are. It was Fox and the right who created all the faux butt hurt about Merry Christmas, bathrooms, marriage equality, reproductive choice, BLM and even the ACA.

We do not need to cater to white working class Christians who slurp up Fox news day after day. We need to learn to create the narrative ourselves. We sit around thinking all will be right with the world IF we just tell the truth, but truth seems not to matter anymore. We must get out in front of everything and create the simple narrative that the right can't misconstrue. It's exactly what happened with the ACA. We all bitched and moaned about it not being enough while Republicans were out there talking about death panels and the government choosing someone's healthcare treatments until it became another rallying cry for the right.

I may be totally wrong, but if I am please tell me when we've hammered home the truth over the other side's lies.

[Grey Lemercier]

15. keeping it classy, wow

and obviously you didn't read the article

have a nice day

[iluvtennis]

18. Ok, going on a limb and saying in the final outcome the GE was about race...

...the whites came out in big numbers to say "Black/Brown people, no way are you going to take over this nation...not at this time" [my opinion only]. I say that because whites are used to bein in control in America and can't fathom that minorities are the growing majority in this country and will be that majority in the next 10/15 years.

Remember, Make America Great Again really meant "Make America White Again"...taking it back to the 50's timeframe.

[Grey Lemercier]

19. Yes, we lost for many reasons (Comey, Russian disinfo and hacked emails), Obamacare rate increases

Clinton Inc Wikileaks (Russia again), out and out sexism, and of course systemic voter suppression by the Rethugs, BUT, Trump WON due to race. It was his single biggest draw, that and his con game of being an "outsider", and agent of change.


This article and my own personal belief is NOT that ALL whites are racists, hell no, BUT many many millions are, and they pushed Trump over the top. Furthermore, blaming identity politics is simply code for tossing us PoC, LGBTQ, and immigrants under the bus again. Especially when Trump used WHITE identity politics to such a successful degree.

[pnwmom]

20. I think so, too -- and about James Comey's letter bombs n/t

[RBInMaine]

29. To MANY Trump voters, it meant "Make American JOBS Again." They wanted JOBS. Period.

[treestar]

25. It was the right wing that cried about transgender

people in the bathroom. We just defended the transgender's rights to use the one they identify with. The right wing was faux terrified about it.