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MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 11:13 AM Aug 2016

The Subtle Difference between Just Voting for and Supporting Hillary Clinton

I've heard and read some Democrats saying things like, "I'll hold my nose and vote" or "I'll grudgingly vote" for Hillary in November. That's nice, I guess, and every vote matters, but that's not actually supporting the Democratic candidate. In fact, that lukewarm acceptance of Clinton as the better candidate can work to suppress the vote, and that affects more than just the presidential race.

Even in states where a Clinton victory is certain, we need as many Democratic voters to show up at the polls and vote all the way down the ticket for Democrats. Even in blue states, there are legislative districts where a Democratic win isn't assured. If a lukewarm response is heard by some occasional or wavering voters, that could tend to help some indecisive people make a decision to sit out the election in November.

It's incredibly easy to discourage some people from voting. But, that's a very bad idea. We need voters who will vote for Democrats in every state, even in Red states. Just as there are legislative races in blue states that can go red, there are legislative races in red states that have the potential to go blue, if enough people turn out.

So, even if you're not personally enthusiastic about Hillary as President, you can say something like "Hillary is so much better than Donald Trump that I can't imagine not voting for her." You can say, "I'm voting for Hillary. The alternative is unthinkable." Those are positive statement, not discouraging statements. They actually support the Democratic presidential candidate, rather than damning her with faint praise.

I encourage those who are less than excited by a Clinton presidency to choose a positive way to express their opinions when asked about their voting plans in casual situations. You needn't be full of praise, but can point out an important reason to vote for a Democrat, rather than an orange-haired clown. If you're positive, you're supportive. If you're openly begrudging your vote, you're not being positive or supportive.

Is the difference subtle? Yes, of course it is. But some people make decisions about whether to vote or not based on small things. What you say or write could affect someone else's decision about voting. It's possible to be supportive without being enthusiastic, if you're not feeling like glowingly praising our candidate. We need voter support, all the way down the ballot, and that only comes if people who will vote for Democrats actually turn out to vote.

That's my opinion on this Sunday morning. Thanks for reading it.

49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Subtle Difference between Just Voting for and Supporting Hillary Clinton (Original Post) MineralMan Aug 2016 OP
Please stop snpsmom Aug 2016 #1
You said... tonedevil Aug 2016 #3
How are suggestions and encouragement "policing?" MineralMan Aug 2016 #4
Perhaps snpsmom Aug 2016 #6
Mineral Man's words WILL have sway on intelligent, non-defensive, non-negative people pnwmom Aug 2016 #40
You don't know the first thing about me n/t snpsmom Aug 2016 #46
I wasn't speaking about you, clearly. n/t pnwmom Aug 2016 #47
Disingenuous at best snpsmom Aug 2016 #48
Nobody is policing you. MineralMan made suggestions, did not advocate monitoring your activity. . nt Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2016 #15
Who are you to tell Mineral Man to stop? You don't get to police his speech or actions. n/t pnwmom Aug 2016 #39
If you don't like what the OP says, BlueMTexpat Aug 2016 #44
This message was self-deleted by its author NurseJackie Aug 2016 #2
I've donated ($27) to her campaign cali Aug 2016 #5
I'm sure the campaign thanks you for that. MineralMan Aug 2016 #7
lol. cali Aug 2016 #8
There's a certain milieu that seems to foster the tepid attitude you describe ... NurseJackie Aug 2016 #9
I think the internet tends to reflect general attitudes, frankly. MineralMan Aug 2016 #12
It has to do with credibility, too. yallerdawg Aug 2016 #10
Please just stop with the division Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #11
What primary did I mention or even allude to? MineralMan Aug 2016 #13
You did not have too Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #24
Divisions exist. MineralMan illuminates a bridging activity & does not dwell on the divisions. . nt Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2016 #17
That is in YOUR eyes. Others feel differently. I disagree with your assessment. cali Aug 2016 #20
Indeed Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #23
... SixString Aug 2016 #33
Mineral Man's post was anything but divisive. n/t pnwmom Aug 2016 #42
your points are well taken but it is up to the voter Fast Walker 52 Aug 2016 #14
So I can say "lesser of two evils" now and not get banned? rickford66 Aug 2016 #16
I have no idea. I can't ban anyone. MineralMan Aug 2016 #18
I got banned very early on. rickford66 Aug 2016 #21
You're talking to the wrong person, I'm afraid. MineralMan Aug 2016 #25
I was number 1 to be blocked Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #26
So HDSam Aug 2016 #19
Mineral Man did not say you ahve to be enthusiastic about Hillary Clinton csziggy Aug 2016 #35
You're right... HDSam Aug 2016 #37
MM is just saying that if you really do want to keep Trump from being elected, pnwmom Aug 2016 #43
If you vote for her you obviously support her. Rex Aug 2016 #22
+1! KPN Aug 2016 #27
For 30 years the repubs have spent billions prosecuting the Clintons. Never have they won. judesedit Aug 2016 #28
The subtle difference between just accepting differences and shoe-horning one's ... KPN Aug 2016 #29
I don't see why you have a problem with tepid support for HRC Larkspur Aug 2016 #30
My post is not really about the presidential election. MineralMan Aug 2016 #31
It's up to the candidates to get voters interested in them Larkspur Aug 2016 #38
Since some people appear to have misunderstood what this post MineralMan Aug 2016 #32
I am telling people that if they can not vote for her, or vote against Trump, to ignore the pres uppityperson Aug 2016 #34
She gets my vote, that's all she's getting. My time and money Exilednight Aug 2016 #36
please be as specific as possible Enrique Aug 2016 #41
Boy, did you ever hit some nerves! BlueMTexpat Aug 2016 #45
MM good op Peacetrain Aug 2016 #49

snpsmom

(678 posts)
1. Please stop
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 11:23 AM
Aug 2016

She has my vote. Of course Trump is unthinkable. But you don't get to police my speech or actions.

edited because I can't seem to spell this morning.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
4. How are suggestions and encouragement "policing?"
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 11:31 AM
Aug 2016

I have no power to compel anyone to do anything. I do have the ability to suggest things and encourage people to do things, though, and a forum on which I can make those suggestions and voice that encouragement.

You're perfectly free to ignore any suggestion I may make.

So, no, I won't stop. Sorry.

snpsmom

(678 posts)
6. Perhaps
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 11:35 AM
Aug 2016

I chose the wrong word. Let me rephrase: your suggestions have no sway because they sound more like chiding and because you have no authority over my actions or speech.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
40. Mineral Man's words WILL have sway on intelligent, non-defensive, non-negative people
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 01:47 AM
Aug 2016

who want to make sure that Trump isn't elected President, and that as many Democrats get elected to Congress as possible.

Response to MineralMan (Original post)

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
5. I've donated ($27) to her campaign
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 11:34 AM
Aug 2016

I've committed to vote for her and I'll be phone banking for her.

I rarely express my doubts about her here, (alert, alert, alert!) but in real life? That's my business. I certainly don't need advice from you.

I hope she wins and I hope that as president she earns my trust on issues where she doesn't have them.

Not good enough for you? Good and uff da!

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
7. I'm sure the campaign thanks you for that.
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 11:36 AM
Aug 2016

And your phone-banking is definitely support. So, I'm not actually referring to you in this post.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
9. There's a certain milieu that seems to foster the tepid attitude you describe ...
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 11:44 AM
Aug 2016

... and I see it throughout on the internet. But I wonder, is it actually that prevalent ... or does it just appear that way to me (because it annoys me, and therefore I notice and remember it)?

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
12. I think the internet tends to reflect general attitudes, frankly.
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 12:13 PM
Aug 2016

I've heard similar begrudging comments in person where I live, too. I don't think it's a rare thing at all, and I worry that it will affect down-ticket races, even in my own state of Minnesota, where we have a good opportunity to flip one, or even two, congressional seats. Turnout will make all the difference in those two districts.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
10. It has to do with credibility, too.
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 11:47 AM
Aug 2016

It's like "settling" on a spouse.

All your friends, relatives and acquaintances might seriously question your sanity if you repeatedly said, "I'm marrying this one, but my heart belongs to that one."

When you're courting someone, don't you wait until after the nuptials to point out their imperfections and shortcomings? If you don't, I bet you won't see that wedding!

In this case - can't you wait until November 9th?

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
13. What primary did I mention or even allude to?
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 12:15 PM
Aug 2016

This is not about the primaries. They're long over. This is about turnout in the general election, which matters more than some might think. Congress and state legislatures are on the line in November. In many ways, they're even more important than the presidency, although both are very important.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
24. You did not have too
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 12:45 PM
Aug 2016

You unfortunately once again just denigrate others that are not as enthusiastic as you are. It is a common thing you have been doing for months as you denigrated the Bernie supporters in prior months. What you post is actually very transparent.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
14. your points are well taken but it is up to the voter
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 12:19 PM
Aug 2016

Personally, I do try to support her more actively and try to argue against lesser evil opinions and holding nose, etc.

rickford66

(5,523 posts)
21. I got banned very early on.
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 12:40 PM
Aug 2016

All I mentioned was Hillary's connections to Wall St which was publicly being discussed. So ....

LESSER OF TWO EVILS ! Thanks for the return of democracy and the First Amendment.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
25. You're talking to the wrong person, I'm afraid.
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 12:47 PM
Aug 2016

I have nothing to do with the administration of this website.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
26. I was number 1 to be blocked
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 12:47 PM
Aug 2016

From the Hillary group. I posted some constructive criticism of how I could not vote for her in 2008 unless she changed.

HDSam

(251 posts)
19. So
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 12:39 PM
Aug 2016

it's no longer good enough to agree to vote for Clinton, now I have to appear enthusiastic about it?

Sometimes you have to accept that good enough has to do.

I had to come to that realization myself not long ago.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
35. Mineral Man did not say you ahve to be enthusiastic about Hillary Clinton
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 03:19 PM
Aug 2016

Just do everything you can to get Democratic candidates into office all the way through the ticket.

So, even if you're not personally enthusiastic about Hillary as President, you can say something like "Hillary is so much better than Donald Trump that I can't imagine not voting for her." You can say, "I'm voting for Hillary. The alternative is unthinkable." Those are positive statement, not discouraging statements. They actually support the Democratic presidential candidate, rather than damning her with faint praise.


Neither of those statements are enthusiastic support of Hillary Clinton - they are just not negative about the person at the top of the Democratic slate of candidates.

If we want the next Democratic president to be more successful than Barack Obama we HAVE to put more Democrats than Republicans in Congress. The only way we're going to do that is to get more people to vote Democratic.

Frankly I don't care who threw their support which way in the primaries. Volunteer to get out the vote. Encourage everyone you know to vote. Talk down our Republican opponents even if you do not feel you can talk up our Democratic candidates.

HDSam

(251 posts)
37. You're right...
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 04:32 PM
Aug 2016

that's why I said 'appear' enthusiastic. I view both of the bolded statements as appearing enthusiastic for Clinton, but of course your opinion is different than mine. Anyway, please accept my thanks for taking the time to try and explain it to me, I'm not too smart in the head sometimes.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
43. MM is just saying that if you really do want to keep Trump from being elected,
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 01:52 AM
Aug 2016

you need to understand the power of your words on wavering voters. Even though you are committed in your own mind to voting, if you express your misgivings too baldly or openly, you could inadvertently deter others from voting.

judesedit

(4,438 posts)
28. For 30 years the repubs have spent billions prosecuting the Clintons. Never have they won.
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 12:51 PM
Aug 2016

Wake up people. Hillary is not perfect but she's a hell of lot better than any of the repub candidates that ran. I really wish she could share the Presidency with Bernie, but that won't happen. I hope she gives Bernie a very powerful position, while holding his seat. Get voting for democrats all the way down the ticket if you care about your voting rights, social security, unemployment, overtime, child labor laws, sick time, family leave time, vacation time, the environment, medicare, improving on the affordable care act, and help for the less fortunate. There's a lot more the repubs will try to take from you than listed here and it starts at the bottom. Go Hillary! Thanks for your intelligence, empathy, strength, and perseverance.

KPN

(15,643 posts)
29. The subtle difference between just accepting differences and shoe-horning one's ...
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 12:55 PM
Aug 2016

personal preferred perspective in a collaborative venture. Geesh!

 

Larkspur

(12,804 posts)
30. I don't see why you have a problem with tepid support for HRC
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 01:02 PM
Aug 2016

a vote is a vote. Be grateful that she's getting the votes.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
31. My post is not really about the presidential election.
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 01:13 PM
Aug 2016

Reread it and you'll see. It's about Democratic voter turnout. Frankly, that's what my posts are almost always about. I believe that down-ballot races are even more important than the presidential race. To win those, we need a large turnout. That's what I'm writing about in this OP. Maybe you missed that part.

 

Larkspur

(12,804 posts)
38. It's up to the candidates to get voters interested in them
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 01:29 AM
Aug 2016

If candidates have a poorly organized campaign or can't raise the funds, then they are not good sales people. Campaigns are like small business start ups. Voters are the customer base and if candidates can't appeal to them, then just like a small business that can't attract customers, the candidate will "go out of business" or lose.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
32. Since some people appear to have misunderstood what this post
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 01:34 PM
Aug 2016

is about, I have edited the OP to emphasize certain phrases in it. Have another look. If it still doesn't seem clear what I'm talking about, you can visit another OP I just posted here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512377271

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
34. I am telling people that if they can not vote for her, or vote against Trump, to ignore the pres
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 03:06 PM
Aug 2016

spot and vote for congress, national and state, and local issues. Too many people think you have to fill in every spot, or that if they don't want to vote for president they just won't vote at all.

It's not like a test where you get penalized for leaving things blank. Find 1 thing to vote for, perhaps city council, or school bond, or state congress.

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
36. She gets my vote, that's all she's getting. My time and money
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 03:37 PM
Aug 2016

have gone to other Democratic causes that either support Dems that I believe can be agents of change (Maxed contribution to Canova's campaign and another 20k to a superPac supporting him) or Democratic issue groups.

Hillary only gets my vote this year, if she wants more in 2020, then it will be based on what she does in the four years between now and then.

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
41. please be as specific as possible
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 01:48 AM
Aug 2016

when advising us what tone to express our thoughts in. Thanks in advance!

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