Hillary supports are you just going to rubber stamp whatever she does?

[Skink]

Like now you don't want to even see the political process all the way through.

[JoePhilly]

1. Oh the drama.

[Hoyt]

2. And Sanders' supporters are just going to believe anything he says, no matter how unrealistic.

[AgingAmerican]

15. Yes We Can't!!

[Hoyt]

16. Yes, Congress is not opposed, 40 - 50% of voters are not opposed, reality doesn't exist, etc.

[SheenaR]

22. What programs specifically

are unrealistic to you and have 40-50% of voters opposing them?

No snark, we obviously don't see the same thing.

[Hoyt]

34. Single Payer -- over 40% of voters are just flat opposed. It might be the best solution, but

Congress will not vote for it and a bunch of people will not support it (as stupid as they might be). A Public Option will get us to single payer much faster.

[SheenaR]

41. 81% of Dems support it

Realistic tomorrow? No. But I would rather see someone out there advocating it until we get control of both Houses again.

Universal gay marriage was highly opposed too. The fight continued and they won.

We just seem to have different means to the end we both desire.

Thanks Hoyt for responding.

[Hoyt]

51. So, that leaves 19% of Dems who are opposed, most GOPers, and those who will become

opposed when they find out increased taxes will be necessary, and other sacrifices will be needed that they did not expect from the description of single payer spread by you guys. Ask Vermont how it worked out when they saw how much it would cost -- guess they didn't find how Sanders is going to reduce total annual health care expenditures from $3 Trilling to $1.37 Trillion.

And, I get the increase in taxes will offset premiums and supposedly the cost of health care will decline -- problem is, few believe it.

[Kall]

30. Well

Sanders doesn't have a history of changing positions on a whim according to political expedience, and lying to people for weeks about things like being under Bosnian sniper fire on the campaign trail, in order to make a dishonest pitch to voters while knowing it's BS.

[Hoyt]

35. I'm fine with people changing their opinion as long as they end up in the right place.

[Kall]

37. I'm fine with changing one's opinion if it's sincere.

Selling the TPP for years as the "gold standard" then saying you're kind of against it a few weeks before the Democratic primary is not changing one's opinion, it's just changing what one says publicly for a little while. And Hillary Clinton was never of the opinion that she was under Bosnian sniper fire unless she had a medical condition that involved hallucinations - since her medicals came through clear, she was just lying to everyone for weeks in an effort to get votes with the lie.

[silvershadow]

3. They won't have the opportunity. It will just be foist upon us all. nt

[Buzz Clik]

4. Another inference that HRC supporters are incapable of thought. Here's a suggestion:

Piss off.

[Skink]

6. Don't be to hard on yourself it is not that you are incapable

Just misguided.

[MrWendel]

8. Oh the irony...

and the lack of self-awareness is amazing.

[Buzz Clik]

9. Trust me -- your endless string of insults has not caused me to miss a beat.

I was buying Sanders's bullshit early on and supported him fully. A bit of research and -- you guessed it -- thinking led me to the inescapable conclusion that his concepts are untenable. He would be a reincarnation of Jimmy Carter, the sweet man with big ideas and no support in Congress to accomplish a thing.

So, you can swallow the lies without chewing, but don't project your blind devotion onto those who actually thought about this.

[kaleckim]

24. "it is not that you are incapable"

...if you say so.

[kaleckim]

20. You complain about an inference that HRC supporters are incapable of thought...

then tell someone to piss off. Get there irony there?

[BootinUp]

5. Just another very thoughtful GDP thread. Thanks.

[Sheepshank]

7. Bernie's rape fantasy essay received numerous rubber stamps here...so there is that.

[SheenaR]

23. Link? n/t

[JackInGreen]

28. Oh woolybutts

Mischarecterizing his writing again:

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/05/29/410606045/the-bernie-sanders-rape-fantasy-essay-explained

Have some facts before they fling shit

[SheenaR]

31. Gasp!

They would never mischaracterize Senator Sanders. For shame!

[Sheepshank]

36. are you really pretending you'e never read such a thing on DU

you've never reads people giving him a pass every single fucking time the essay is brought up, agreeing with the essays, and justifying it all? wow.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1755620

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511637124

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026742105

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026757161

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026757636

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026753605

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511905132

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251429340

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1743838

shall I keep going with the documented rubber stamps?

Next time google it and you won't look like a fake obstructionist trying a stupid "gotcha" moment

[procon]

10. Want a tissue? A cookie... your blinkie or a sippy cup, maybe a story and a nice nap? nt

[chervilant]

40. Aren't you clever?

Actually, I use posts like this for one very useful thing: updating my IL.

[procon]

42. Boo-hoo... I'm heartbroken. Can you tell? nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

62. What a wonderfully appropriate username!

Does the "con" part stand for "conservative" or "condescending?"

[procon]

63. No, actually it's first three letters my kid's names that comprised my 1st business name.

Can I still pick "condescending" for $500?

[whatchamacallit]

11. Yes

[bigtree]

12. I'm not sure most Sanders supporters understand or appreciate the political process

[SheenaR]

26. Yup

We no go skool.

Have you worked on a Presidential campaign before? Like paid to? Some of us have. We understand and appreciate the seriousness of the process really well. Hence my opposition to your candidate now and when I worked in 2008.

[Kall]

43. Sure they do.

And they know you don't compromise on popular ideas before negotiations begin. Obama compromised and offered up the Republican Health Care Plan of the 1990s before negotiations began. How many Republican votes did it get him? Now the Democratic Party is the political owner of an unpopular plan that has been underwater in public opinion since Day One, and Republicans can move to repeal it 60 times with no political consequences attached, because no Republicans voted for it.

[mooseprime]

13. past behavior

is often a very solid indicator of future behavior

[flobee1]

14. You know better than to ask that question!

Its time for you to fall in line behind the party
Do not question the party
Because the party is always right.

[Agschmid]

17. I'm fine with seeing it through.

The outcome is highly unlikely to change.

[oasis]

18. Hillary has not called for Bernie to drop out. (nt)

[cali]

19. Hillary's fans are an object lesson for me

Last edited Fri May 6, 2016, 01:05 PM - Edit history (1)

At least those here. I have no problem criticizing Bernie for his support of the F-35, for example. It's wrong. Period. I have never seen any forthright criticism of Hillary from her fans. Nothing but excuses.

[VulgarPoet]

46. Seriously. Do I disagree with the f-35 and the Brady bill choices? Yes, and mildly in order;

But overall? His bag of bad is WAY smaller than Hillary's. And you already know they'll just pencil-whip everything she does in the name of party unity-- which is treason to the country as a whole; "my party right or wrong" is never the way to operate things fruitfully-- but I have to say, Hillary supporters scare me more than even Trump's supporters do. At least it took Trump inciting violence to get his supporters to start beating people.

[cali]

47. Absolutely, but my point is that I've yet to see any criticism

of her from her fans here. Nothing.

[VulgarPoet]

50. Oh aye. They have nothing bad to say about her. Which is funny-- they accuse us of conspiracy theory

and yet have the undying gall to claim that Hillary Clinton's been suffering at the hands a 25 year conspiracy? I'd believe it if they said Bill. But 25 years, attacking a former First Lady-- don't they think at least SOME of the stuff she's done is legit?

Or are we just hallucinating all of her hilariously bad positions over the years that she flipflopped over due to political expedience?

[kaleckim]

21. Look at this thread

and all the immature and childish responses by HRC supporters.

Obviously, the answer is that they will not challenge her, they will give a monopoly to the right (although I would argue some of them are on the right) on pushing her, thinking that makes any logical sense.

[procon]

49. Have any Bernie supporters ever challenged anything he's said or done?

Perhaps I've missed all the daily critiques and suspicious inquests coming from his fans. Look, demagogues like Bernie are always held inviolate because they are the perfect, untarnished representative of his followers unwavering faith in his righteousness.

Hillary's fans seem to be well aware of her faults and foibles, but far more pragmatic when it comes to deciding what's more realistically important; ideological purity or winning the election.

[Skink]

55. The guys got a D- record with the NRA

He can do better.

[kaleckim]

66. Why bother responding?

"what's more realistically important; ideological purity or winning the election."

Nonsense on almost every level. For one, you have no case that she is more electable. She is the second most unpopular major party nominee in modern history. She is just lucky to be running against the only one more disliked, she isn't trusted, Sanders has done better versus Trump for months, is more trusted, liked, and his positions on the issues are more popular. You can argue that this or that will happen, and you can't predict the future. As we stand here now, he is a far more electable candidate, she is a horrible choice. On ideological purity, you're just repeating bumper stickers. I focus on policies, actual policies, her record, the impact those policies have had. I know the damn issues and it is a joke for you to claim her supporters are the ones glued into issues. They almost never address her actual record, her corruption, her horrible polling, or have adult conversations on the record of Democrats like her, her husband, and Obama. It immediately turns personal.

As I said, not a single thoughtful comment in the thread from a Clinton supporter. Not one person interested in being an adult and answering the question, cause the truth is none of you will hold her feet to the fire. I sure as hell would if Sanders were elected, cause that is what is often needed. You challenge people when they sell out, or back policies that harm you or and the country. None of you say you will or act with any maturity. What you are saying is case of projection.

[LexVegas]

25. ....

[Zynx]

27. No. I recognize she'll do things I don't like.

If Sanders was elected, he'd be forced to do things you wouldn't like either. Find me a social democratic government that hasn't disappointed it's supporters. I dare you.

None of that is the point.

[Thinkingabout]

29. It is because she is right on the issues, why shouldn't we rubberstamp

What she does, oh, BTW, we don't throw everyone who does not support her under the bus.

[Matt_in_STL]

32. Oh, except for that pesky war issue

Oh, there's the TPP too. Oh, and everything else she says.

[Thinkingabout]

44. I know, free college, free, free, free

[firebrand80]

33. I didn't even know I had a stamp nt

[Onlooker]

38. No more than Sanders supporters ...

... they defend his support for anything he does. He voted against the Amber Alert system, Sanders supporters explain why. He voted to grant gun manufacturers special liability privileges, Sanders supporters defend him. He voted for the anti-immigrant vigilante Minutemen, for the stealth bomber, for military appropriations for the Iraq and Afghanistan war in 2001, etc. Supporters tend to be fairly irrational when it comes to attacks on their candidate. Just the way it is.

[Thinkingabout]

45. Excellent points

[cali]

48. Fail. I've criticized him and so have others. Hill fans? Never

[Onlooker]

52. Of course, many of us have criticized Hillary ...

Any progressive who supports Hillary acknowledges that Sanders is better on many issues, but that Hillary is pretty good (and there are important reasons to support her other than her specific stands). It's just when Sanders supporters try to paint her as a neocon, Republican, Wall Street shill, etc. it evokes a defensive response from those who support Hillary.

[NCTraveler]

39. I haven't in the past and won't in the future. nt.

[MisterP]

53. they openly say they don't care a whit about what a candidate proposes, as long as it's the

candidate proposing them

[Doctor_J]

54. Oh yeah. I figure it will break down like this

1/3 - "it's the best we can do" - Example: Cuts/privatization of Medicare
1/3 - "that's really progressive" - Example: TTP
1/3 - "you wouldn't complain if a man did that" - Example: Hillary invades Iran

[Skink]

57. Hillary could be the one to privatize Social Security

Who better. She is probably coordinating with Rand/Ryan now.

[nolawarlock]

56. Rubber stamp?

You mean like all the progressives who discovered Bernie and suddenly became all pro-gun?

[Skink]

58. Bernie the guy that votes to ban assault weapons.

That Bernie?

[nolawarlock]

59. No,

... the Bernie who believes that gun laws should be decided by the states and that gun manufacturers should not be held liable for the the carnage their products create.

[nolawarlock]

60. Oh and I almost forgot ...

... the Bernie that voted against the Brady Bill five times.

[Skink]

61. I might disagree with him here

I whole heartedly disagree with HRC on lots of stuff.

I agree with her on the ACA. I also agree that Bernie should set the stage for Medicare for all. He's not going to tear down the ACA

So we Bernie supporters just know he'll fight for us.

[nolawarlock]

64. Well he sure as heck ain't gonna fight for me or my family.

I'm the small business owner. We're the sacrificial lambs in Bernie's crusade to take a chunk out of corporations. Hillary understands our unique position in bringing unique products and services to our communities, the American Dream of entrepreneurship, and a path to independence for regular, everyday people. Hillary has an avatar specifically created for us, which I'm using here. Bernie could care less if he hurts us so long as he can get to the corporations. I won't support someone who sees my life as collateral damage.

[NorthCarolina]

65. Doesn't matter to them what she did or does. All they know is

they aren't going to vote for a candidate that wants to improve the lives of those they consider undesirables.