Didn't Hillary lose in 2008 under the same election rules? nt

[Jitter65]

[JaneyVee]

1. And won the popular vote.

[sufrommich]

5. Well,that's technically true but Obama

wasn't on the Michigan ballot or another state,can't remember which,that's what gave her the popular vote.

[stevenleser]

13. Florida. And Florida is not exactly a small state. nt

[morningfog]

19. No. You can't count FL and MI.

[moriah]

33. Specious at best.

It was a very close primary, but when Obama won the majority of pledged delegates, the Supers went to him.

It's difficult to establish the popular vote, and there is a whole section on Wiki showing the attempts to estimate it in 2008 under various scenarios. The majority were not favorable to Hillary, but did show a closer race so far than this one has been.

I hope Bernie supporters come out and vote in these last primaries, even if mathematically it looks like Hillary will win the most pledged delegates, because the primary vote isn't just about who wins or loses, but a demonstration from the Party voters what direction they want the Party to go. That statement could be very powerful, and influence at least the platform, and likely the rest of the ticket if not the Nominee.

[Zynx]

2. And she conceded once all the primaries were over.

She didn't try to convince super delegates who had endorsed Obama to flip.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. nor did the might of clintons come down on those who did endorse him

and end their careers. most of them are doing just fine. and several who endorsed obama endorsed her this time round

[TSIAS]

32. She didn't concede right away

If I remember correctly, after the last primary she stayed in a few days. Only until Pelosi and the entire NY delegation pledged to support Obama did she concede.

[Zynx]

36. The point being that the super delegates, before they voted, decided the race.

And the pledged delegate race was awfully narrow.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. why are you inserting logic in this place?

[DrDan]

6. her (and her supporters) constant complaining about the closed primaries sure got old . . .

oh . . . wait

[sufrommich]

7. Yes,she did. And she called for Obama's nomination

at the convention at his bequest.

[hellofromreddit]

8. No.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/25/court-past-voting-discrimination-no-longer-held/?page=all

The Voting Rights Act was gutted in 2013. The most colossal fuckups this primary season have been in areas that were formerly regulated by that act. Not to mention the wave of ID laws that have gone into effect. The democrats rearranging the primary schedule a bit. And a reapportionment.

Those are all massive changes.

[oregonjen]

9. And then you threw in facts!

How dare you!

[hellofromreddit]

18. Indeed. I can be cruel.

[MineralMan]

10. Why, yes, she did.

And graciously, too. President Obama had the majority of pledged delegates, so the superdelegates voted for him, even those who had indicated support for Hillary Clinton. It's a smooth process that everyone understands.

The system will work just as smoothly this year, too.

[Beacool]

11. Obama was ahead by only 102 pledged delegates at the end of the primaries in 2008.

The popular vote was also razor thin. Yet, Hillary released her delegates at the convention so that Obama could be nominated by proclamation.

Sanders and his two hustlers, Devine and Weaver, are suggesting that super delegates should switch to him even when Hillary has triple the pledged delegate lead that Obama had, and is also ahead in the popular vote by 3M.

In other words, they have the effrontery to suggest that democracy should be subverted and the candidate who is outpacing Sanders by a large margin should be denied the nomination. Imagine the outrage if the roles were reversed and Hillary tried that strategy!!!

Ahhhh, the hypocrisy........

[Gwhittey]

12. nt

+

[frylock]

14. How many debates, and when was the first one held in 2007-08?

[Cali_Democrat]

16. So is that the new excuse?

Bernie is losing because there weren't enough debates?

LOL

[frylock]

20. New excuse?

We've been discussing that issue since last June. Remember when we predicted that holding the first debate after the deadline to change Party affiliation in NY would negatively impact Sanders chances considering that he polled so well with independent voters? Where you been?

[Maru Kitteh]

41. Okay, old excuse

really, really, old.

[Zynx]

37. I don't think terribly more.

[joshcryer]

15. She lost by 62 pledged delegates.

And then went on to nominate Obama by acclamation.

[NCTraveler]

17. To a candidate who was viewed by many as being further to the left.

But there is really no comparison. Obama put together one of the greatest campaigns in history. Sanders came in with Weaver.

[frylock]

22. And Weaver helped bring Bernie from single-digits to several primary victories.

What's Mook done that has been so magnificent?

[morningfog]

21. Similar rules, but what's your point?

[sadoldgirl]

24. Similar rules, but I don't remember as

many "irregularities". Slimy campaigning from
her side, but no voter purging for instance.

[pnwmom]

25. A Republican did the vote purging 6 months earlier, hurting Hillary as much if not more than Bernie.

All 5 boroughs of NYC went strongly for Hillary. A large purge in the rural, northern parts of the state would have hurt Bernie. Not a purge in NYC.

[Igel]

29. "Voter purge" is a loaded term.

I've been purged from several voter lists.

So has my father.

And my mother.

I move and my registration continues. My father and father moved and their voter registration continued. My father died and his registration continued.

Eventually the voter rolls reads primarily like a list of people who have moved or died. In areas with a lot of mobility, people changing addresses or moving in and out, the number of voters can easily come to exceed, in just a few years, the population.

It makes it harder that people aren't consistent in how they register. Now they have middle initials, now no initials. Now they use their maiden name, now married name, now a combination. That's why affadavit ballots have existed for a long time in NYS.

[Zynx]

38. There's always weird stuff on election nights. 99.5% of the time it's absolutely nothing.

The bulk of the rest of the time, it's something, but not what it appears to be.

[tonyt53]

26. Yup

[Algernon Moncrieff]

27. Stop using logic and facts. Just stop!

[jg10003]

28. 2008 was a fair contest. Obama was not anointed in September 2007

You cannot compare 2016 to 2008

2008 started with 3 strong candidates; Obama, Clinton, and Edwards. Each had basically the same chance of winning. There was a level playing field.

This year Clinton started the primaries with more advantages then any other non-incumbent in history. In fact she has had the nearly the same status as an incumbent president running for re-election. The entire party establishment supported her. The primary scheduled was changed so that the southern states voted first (in order to prevent a progressive from gaining ground early). Only 6 debates were scheduled, and those on days when viewership would be low. And of course the DNC chairperson is Hillary's loyal servant.

[Jitter65]

30. Hmm....I guess the rules were different then. nt

[BootinUp]

34. 2016 was a fair contest too.

Nevada and South Carolina were 3rd and 4th in '08 no change there. I think you might be exagerating the changes a bit. And just because a the race doesn't start with all candidates having equal support you can't possibly be saying this is somehow unfair? Clinton earned her standing over many years. Finally, when you have fewer candidates, it seems logical to me that fewer debates are needed for them to get sufficient debate time. Bernie lost pretty much every debate according to all reporting and polling I have looked at, so raising the debate issue hardly makes your case.

[jg10003]

42. 2008 & 2016 schedule compared.

In 2008 only 5 southern states were among the first 25 primaries:
1. Alabama
2. Arkansas
3. Florida
4. Georgia
5. South Carolina

In 2016 11 southern states were among the first 25 primaries:
1. Alabama
2. Arkansas
3. Florida
4. Georgia
5. Louisiana
6. Mississippi
7. Oklahoma
8. South Carolina
9. Tennessee
10. Texas
11. Virginia

In 2008 all of the following states had voted by the end of February.
Michigan
California
Connecticut
Delaware
Illinois
Massachusetts
Minnesota
New Jersey
New York
Washington
Wisconsin

This year NY is in April, NJ is in May, and CA comes last.

[Demsrule86]

31. She didn't have the delegates...like Sanders.

Last edited Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:31 PM - Edit history (1)

Obama was ahead...he won...this year she is ahead...she wins.


I worded the preview badly...can't fix it but would like to add a clarification.

The Point was that the candidate with the most delegates wins the primary...she did not have the most delegates in 08 (although way more than Sanders) so she did not win. Now she has way more than Sanders has won and is the presumptive Democratic nominee in my opinion.

[Jitter65]

35. She had many more than Sanders at the same point in the election. What are you talking about? nt

[Zynx]

39. But was behind Obama.

[Demsrule86]

40. I meant

I worded it wrong...she did not have more delegates than Obama...but she was way closer to Obama in terms of delegates. She did have more than Bernie...undeniably. Will fix the post. Thanks. The Point was that the candidate with the most delegates wins the primary...she did not have the most delegates in 08 (although way more than Sanders) so she did not win. Now she has way more than Sanders and is the Democratic nominee in my opinion.