I don't have the same feelings as 2008. "Uniting" is harder than you say that it is.

[Renaissance Man]

I was thinking about this primary season and how it feels very different than 2008. Sometimes, I wish that the Democratic Primary, Democratic voters, Democratic Party officials, and even independent voters, would have kept this primary season restricted to the issues, but it didn't.

Admittedly, I'm voting in a state that will not be in the (D) column in the general election, but there are things that are happening now, in the Democratic Party, that I don't feel people will overlook (at least, as far as I'm concerned, I know I will not overlook).

The person that's slated to be the standard bearer for the Democratic Party (for the first time in my life) is someone for which I cannot see myself walking into my polling place (normally an early voter) for in November and casting a ballot. I've been voting for President since the 2000 election (first presidential election in which I qualified to participate), and even before this primary, I held a gut-wrenching feeling that we would get our nominee wrong, even if we were given the chance to get it right.

I'm not motivated. I'm not excited. I don't feel like phone-banking. I don't feel like knocking on doors. I don't feel like purchasing yard signs. I don't feel like debating. I don't feel like influencing others of my party's position on a lot of issues. I don't feel like we will win this election ...

... because I literally don't have a leg to stand on, and my party (the Democratic Party) decided to take that away from me.

How do I answer the questions about Hillary's failure to safeguard critical information on a private e-mail server?

How do I honestly convince Democratic and Independent voters (particularly environmentalists) that our eventual nominee is against fracking and has the best interests of the environment at heart?

How do I convince the 10%-15% of black voters that are vehemently anti-Hillary that she didn't really mean to call their children "super predators" and that she didn't really support the 1994 Crime Bill?

How do I convince the single mother or the family attempting to survive on minimum wage that Hillary was always for raising the minimum wage to $15?

How do I convince the millennial graduating with thousands of dollars in debt and no job prospects that there will be more jobs created by someone who called the TPP "the Gold Standard" and openly supported "NAFTA" and other free trade agreements?

How do I convince those who are against stupid wars that the person that voted for the Iraq War and wants intervention in Syria will be smart on foreign policy, when almost everything that she's touched (as it relates to foreign policy) has been an unmitigated disaster?

... and there are many other issues that, with a simple Google or YouTube search, can contradict anything I would try to say to convince that voter otherwise of where that nominee's position stands.

It's sad. I can't convince that voter, because I can't even convince myself of that position, without lying to myself. This is where I am. I'm voting down-ticket, but convincing myself (or others) that Hillary is what they WANT in November is something I can't even begin to even conceive happening.

To those who have always been in her camp, other than saying "but do you want Trump in the White House," what will make me want to vote FOR HER (rather than against someone else)?

[Jackie Wilson Said]

1. Yeah, draw the line at Hillary with Drumpf or Cruz in the wings

BRILLIANT

[rateyes]

9. I see you didn't answer the question.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

11. What question? Why I prefer Hillary to Drumpf or Cruz?

[rateyes]

49. No. I guess you didn't read the post. The question

was can anyone give the OP a reason to vote FOR Hillary other than she isn't Trump or Cruz. So far I haven't seen anyone say anything except "she isn't Trump or Cruz."

[Jackie Wilson Said]

50. I cant, you see I dont vote for myself. If the question is what will Hillary do for

the poster, I dont know.

You see I vote for who will do the least harm to the most, as most if not all politicians do harm.

So I will vote (no brainer to vote for the dem in every election) for the person who will fit that bill which is always the democrat.

So no, if this is about what Hillary can do for YOU, I dont know.

Ask me what she wont do to minorities and women, and then I will have an answer for you.

[leftofcool]

2. What ever. At least you said you will vote down ticket.

[rateyes]

10. Do you have an answer to the question?

[onehandle]

3. Oh Noes! nt

[senz]

5. Ohhh they always care about the issues, don't they? They're just so silly!

[rateyes]

13. Another post not answering the question.

[senz]

4. Very understandable and widely shared.

[Bluerome]

6. You don't have the same feelings

because this time the one you wanted didn't win. Most Hillary supporters sucked it up and voted for what was better for the country. As Sanders himself has said, Hillary is a thousand times better than any republican.

[senz]

7. Did you read the questions?

And think about them?

[Bluerome]

14. All the answers you need

Are: the Supreme Court is at stake.
Hillary is better than any republican

[senz]

16. Oh yes, a Wall Street-friendly Supreme Court nominee.

Just what we need.

I know who is better than any Republican -- and he's still in the game. Because the American people deserve a real choice.

[Bluerome]

19. I wasn't responding to you

I was responding to the op who asked. If he's reasonable, he'll realize Hillary's Supreme Court pick will be a true lefty, unlike anything you'll get from republicans. That's the last I'll respond to you, you're the kind who wants to fight rather than debate.

[senz]

31. This is a message board. We PM for private conversations.

And if by "fight" you mean disagree -- well, yeah.

[JaneyVee]

22. Bill Clinton put up Ruth Bader Ginsburg

And Hillary is to the left of Bill.

[senz]

29. Bill Clinton didn't take hundreds of thousands of dollars from Wall Street

as far as I know.

I don't think the Clintons were entirely bought and sold yet.

[StevieM]

48. There is no reason to believe that Hillary's Supreme Court nominees will be any different than

Ruth Bader Ginsberg, Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayer, Elena Kagan or Merrick Garland.

And I can assure you that the justices nominated by Donald Trump, Ted Cruz or John Kasich would be quite different from all those people.

[Yurovsky]

66. George Wallace had a D behind his name too...

but that didn't make him worthy of my support.

Hillary's corporate ties and hawkish FP worldview are every bit as disgusting to me as Wallace's blatant racism. And at least Wallace was out front about being a racist. HRC tries to portray herself as something she's not. When I was a kid, we called that a "snake in the grass"...

[leftynyc]

17. EXACTLY

I was going to say the same thing. With the supreme court on the line - with an empty seat no less - this is the stupidest question anyone can ask. Would you rather another Ginsberg or another Scalia is all that needs to be said.

[Bluerome]

8. Voting strictly downticket gives the GOP the Supreme Court

Remember that when thinking about not voting Hillary

[PDittie]

26. False (in about 40 non-swing states)

Do you understand how the Electoral College works?

Beating people with the SCOTUS cudgel wasn't convincing enough for more than 300,000 registered Florida Democrats in 2000 (who voted for W). Argue with Jim Hightower about it, not me.

http://www.salon.com/2000/11/28/hightower/

[Bluerome]

35. The president appoints Supreme Court members

If you don't vote Hillary, you help republicans keep the Supreme Court for another however many decades. It really is that simple.

[Contrary1]

57. The president does not appoint Supreme Court members. n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

37. That's exactly right.

My state has three measly electoral votes and hasn't voted for a Democratic candidate for president since 1964. Whoever I do or don't vote for in the presidential race won't make one bit of difference. I'm just happy we get to throw a few delegates Bernie's way at the convention.

[JI7]

12. lol

[KPN]

15. Yep, I share your sentiments.

I will be interested to see if any Hillary supporters offer anything helpful. To be fair though, I'm not sure that there's anything left for them to say -- it's all been said many times over. Haven't heard anything that convinces me at this point.

[7wo7rees]

18. Nicely expressed. We feel much the same and we are

really old. 50 and 59.

[JoePhilly]

20. Then don't. Problem solved.

[JaneyVee]

21. Operation Chaos 2016

[JaneyVee]

23. Trump in the WH isnt reason enough for you???

[Baitball Blogger]

24. This is a first time as a primary voter for me.

I now realize where the disconnect is occurring. You very aptly pointed it out. Our interests are being co-opted out of existence. With Hillary, the problem will be that her method of politics jumps process. That's how neo-liberalism works. All they do is slap on a social cause to sweeten a financial or corporate gimmy. I don't think it's going to work anymore because we know it's coming.

Bottomline, we might pull that lever, because we have no other choice, but we can't be expected to defend the indefensible. That will be for her supporters to explain why they didn't see how theses flaws were going to be so problematic.

[ViseGrip]

25. For a first timer...you got it! This crapola has been going on forever!

[MisterP]

33. the neolibs don't see themselves as one system out of many, they see it as a permanent system

that has to operate globally; the leftie deviations have produced nothing but tears and stagflation and they're as outmoded as the buggy whip
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_is_no_alternative

[Baitball Blogger]

39. I do see a global agenda.

Which makes their election successes even harder to explain. Between their global overreach and the Republicans thirst for war, it's no wonder that most of us are feeling the malaise of this era.

[AuntPatsy]

27. I'm more jaded I think since 08, not only towards our ruling class but towards everyone, the

vile attacks I've read on this board during the past several months are in my opinion not any different than what comes from our opposite in name only site to them, in the past I put the blame for such irrational behaviors spewing trash on trolls who's sole purpose in life seems to be well I'm not sure what they are hoping to accomplish besides popping in here then going home giving each other high fives..

But some long time Durs I have noticed are not trolls and have showed sides I wish I had not seen, it's still in my opinion one of the best forums on the net but to be honest it's fast losing steam as regulars allow themselves to be drawn into a void of from which there might not be a return...

Hillary is not perfect, she has learned how to play the game according to the rules, whether forced, coerced or threatened into that bubble, we don't know. My hope is that if she gets the power others crave she will turn the game around, she's gone through much emotionally, yes she's rich but simply because one is rich does nesscearily mean contentment..

I have to admit that if I were her, vengeance would be waning heavy on my mind .......her closeness to people I would not ever even give the time of day to makes me hesitant in fully believing she has just given up on real justice for this country, I hope I'm wrong, I hope she can ensure a powerful legacy that was truly for the people of this country and not just the country club members..

Honestly, I have not followed Sanders as I have Hillarys career in politics, some might be annoyed by this observation but I cannot get out of my head that ignorant story regardless of how long ago it was that he penned, do I believe he means what he says? Well I attempted to research Sanders, honestly besides that story, he's stayed fairly steady in his beliefs, I want to believe but I believed a lot of people through the years and time after time was left disappointed...so no, I trust no one fully...

I still hope though for the good of mankind to finally rid itself of its many flaws....

We are a self serving species after all, a bit greedy and prideful as well, perhaps all we can do is hope justice will find a way...

Bottom line I guess, I'm hopeful Clinton or Sanders won't disappoint once again, your vote matters to a degree, to what degree and to what end one can only guess at....

And like it or not, a blank vote simply one ups people like Cruz,Keish,trump, it is what it is at this time...



...

[grasswire]

40. It is not accurate to say she plays the game according to the rules.

Unless the rules mean that it's okay to break the law.

[AuntPatsy]

45. Well according to our supreme justices today, yes they are the rules for themselves anyway,

let's see how they vote to turn over a conviction on who who some say broke the rules, the laws are not the same unless they wish a certain person out of the game......

[JPnoodleman]

28. Exactly,

I mean I can vote down ticket, but Clinton?

[think]

30. The answers have been pretty telling. Basically vote for Hillary or else. You should inspire

a lot of people to vote on that message.....

[msongs]

36. the TOS of DU are to support the democratic party nominee. there are other sites for people

who do not wish to vote for the party nominee

[think]

43. The OP is looking for reasons to be inspired to vote for Hillary and to inspire others to vote for

her.

Reminding people of the TOS that applies after we have a nominee isn't real inspiring in regards to having the OP or anyone they try to convince to vote for Hillary.

But thanks for your input.

[Prism]

32. Because this primary was a full-on assault on the Left

There are multiple examples, from the cries of "free stuff!" to "But my taxes!" to the relentless red-baiting.

The signal is clear from the Democratic Establishment and its useful idiots: Dear Left, go fuck yourself.

Well, message received!

[GreenPartyVoter]

41. They have been saying that for my entire lifetime. Some day it will

bite them in the butt.

[Kelvin Mace]

34. I doubt many will answer your question

because there really is no reason other than the "lesser evil" argument.

[grasswire]

38. Working for Hillary would be working for things I abhor.

And I'm not going to live a lie for her.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

59. ..and I Ain't gonna work on Hill'ry's Farm no more...

[Thirties Child]

42. I sat out 1968, can do it again in 2016.

McGovern was too far left for me then, couldn't bring myself to vote for Nixon. This time I'm appalled at HRC stance on money, fracking, war, TPP, etc., can't bring myself to vote for Trump. I'm in a red district in a red state, which means my vote doesn't matter, either at the top or the bottom.

[pnwmom]

44. With regard to the black voters, you could point out to them that Bernie voted FOR the same

1994 crime bill.

And that Bernie used the word "sociopathic" to describe the same violent gang leaders and that neither mentioned race.

And with regard to them and everyone else, you could point out that the next President could be nominating 3 Supreme Court Justices.

And that Congress is being run by people who want to abolish the ACA.

[SwampG8r]

54. I dont see how talking about sanders inspires ones support of hrc

The op is how to answer voters concerns in a ge
I doubt at that point sanders criticisms.will be a very good way to inspire
The op needs ways to get voters for hrc other than shes not a republican
You know.a.way to.vote FOR someone instead of against someone else.

[pnwmom]

55. The OP is about uniting Sanders supporters with Clinton supporters.

And the best way to do that is to acknowledge that, on the issues, Sanders and Clinton are much closer to each other than to any of the Rethugs.

For example, when they were in the Senate they voted together 93% of the time.

[Melissa G]

63. No, it is not.

Sanders and the Left in general are constantly insulted by Clinton even in her attempts to coop the Liberal talking points because there is almost always a video of her saying just the opposite. Her disingenuous statements are not compelling. The Op is about trying to find a compelling reason to vote for HRC.

The only argument for Clinton so far is she is better than Trump and the corollary Think of the Supreme Court where she will be better than Trump.

The differences in what you cite re the 93% are big differences. Hillary was setting up her White House run. We all knew it then and now. Going along with the crowd is not leadership. It is political calculation. Her pretending that she did not know if she was going to run for President during all those Wall Street hidden speeches is just that. Pretense.

In many of the cases in which she differed with Mr. Sanders, who represents Vermont and is also running for the Democratic presidential nomination, Mrs. Clinton went with the crowd. She voted with an overwhelming majority of her colleagues, including Republicans. Her positions on the votes that differed from Mr. Sanders represented policy differences, but they may have also reflected political calculations by Mrs. Clinton, who was preparing for a presidential run in 2008.

The 31 times that Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Sanders disagreed happened to be on some the biggest issues of the day, including measures on continuing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, an immigration reform bill and bank bailouts during the depths of the Great Recession. Mr. Sanders, who formally kicked off his campaign Tuesday evening in Burlington, Vt., was opposed to all these actions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/28/upshot/the-senate-votes-that-divided-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders.html

[pnwmom]

64. Our recession would have been much worse if we hadn't saved the banks. And the money

was returned to our treasury with interest.

[Melissa G]

65. So many parts...

The repeal of Glass Steagall gleefully came from Clinton version Him, which is what lead to the financial trouble in the first place, so it is an ironic support argument for Her.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280187914
hat tip to Baobab.

as for the list of the bailout debtors..
check here:
https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list

And MOST Especially notice that the bailout folks used the money for bonuses and to consolidate further- putting our country MORE not less at risk.

Asked by one of the participants whether the $25 billion in federal funding will "change our strategic lending policy," the executive replies: "What we do think, it will help us to be a little bit more active on the acquisition side or opportunistic side for some banks who are still struggling."

Referring to JPMorgan's recent government-backed acquisition of two large competitors, the executive continues: "And I would not assume that we are done on the acquisition side just because of the Washington Mutual and Bear Stearns mergers. I think there are going to be some great opportunities for us to grow in this environment, and I think we have an opportunity to use that $25 billion in that way, and obviously depending on whether recession turns into depression or what happens in the future, you know, we have that as a backstop."

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2008/10/pers-o27.html

This is why some folks want to see the transcripts.

And yes, none of the folks who 'misbehaved' were jailed in this country.

[Blanks]

46. I was in college when George H.W. Bush was elected...

And since I was a veteran, and received a small amount of money from the VA (some of which I had taken from my check when I served) like $225/month, I didn't qualify for student loans.

I went back to work for a couple of years, and then when Bill Clinton became president, student loans became available again. Not only did student loans become available, but there were a lot of jobs in the computer industry and other technology related fields.

This whole 'Hillary is part of the oligarchy' bullshit is getting old. The president is not a dictator, the president runs the executive branch of the government and signs into law the legislation that congress sends to them.

Those who think Bernie is gonna lead a revolution understand neither how our government works or the meaning of the word revolution. Clinton did an excellent job, Obama did an excellent job, as long as they had a congress that worked with them.

If they have a congress that will not work with them, there are a lot of compromises. When a Democratic Party president has a republican controlled congress, they either sign things into law or veto them, they don't write their own legislation (like raising minimum wage). The president leads the party, but if the party isn't in control of congress, they don't have nearly the authority.

The reason I want Hillary to win the nomination is because they (the Clinton's) are leaders, Bernie is not.

He tried to make himself out to be something that he wasn't when he went to the Vatican, and he got busted. The pope didn't summon him (and his family) he invited himself, hung around and shook the Pope's hand. All of the support I saw on Facebook among people that I actually know evaporated right then.

If he were a true leader he'd be stumping for congressional candidates, but he's an independent so he could care less about the democrats getting control of congress. Instead he chooses to repeat the same applause lines to crowds.

About the same time as the pope debacle, he demonstrated that he doesn't have an actual plan to bring banks under control, just a string of meaningless clichés.

I'm relieved that Sanders is done, I've been around long enough to know when someone is blowing smoke up people's asses, and that was his only game.

[djean111]

52. Wow! I am impressed!

A big wad of opinion, with nary a fact! You are good at that blowing smoke up asses thing, though.
'bye!

[lunamagica]

58. +1000. Very thoughtful reasonable post. no wonder they could only reply with a snarky

one liner.

Thank you.

[Blanks]

60. Thanks, I feel for them...

I really, really, really wanted Gore to win and the damage to our country as a result of the Supreme Court handing the office to Dubya is something that I'm afraid we can't recover from, and even if we do, it will take decades. So, I know how they feel. They really believe that Bernie was gonna take on the system and his loss hurts.

Gore was going to be the environmental president, an he saw the potential of the 'information superhighway' before anyone even knew of its existence. He talked about it on the stump in '92.

I don't care if people are older and are only just now getting involved in politics, or if they're young and haven't had an opportunity to be involved in politics. There's no excuse for the serious lack of historical knowledge.

The problems that they're blaming on the Clinton's occurred under the Bush administration. There's no excuse for repeating all of the right wing talking points. Bill Clinton took a government that was bleeding red and turned it around without a recession, that's good for the working class. He would have done more, but the republicans controlled congress for much of his term (similar to Obama).

Just my opinions, I suppose, but there are probably plenty of people out there who feel similarly. I've got no problem with the Clinton's, they're public servants and I don't hold it against them that they have been financially successful.

[grasswire]

61. I feel sorry for you, sincerely. nt

[Blanks]

62. Good for you.

[NCTraveler]

47. K&R Marking to reply tomorrow. Nt

[azmom]

51. I'm not voting for Clinton or Trump.

I'm voting for Bernie or Jill Stein.

[MFM008]

53. The problem here is

You already know your not going to vote for her
However its fun to post the usual list of complaints about her.
If you cant find the reasons your GOING to vote
there are none.

[Sky Masterson]

56. She is Inspiring

Right-Wingers to vote. She is literally the Best candidate we could have chosen to inspire them to get off of their couches and vote.

[NorthCarolina]

67. You convince yourself that those things are just a made-up product of the looney left

intended for no other purpose than to discredit the one.

Once you allow yourself to do that, everything is rosy and you break some glass ceilings or something like that.