2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumUrgent: Need some help refuting right winger who happens to be my friend
I know you all are busy, but could you possibly point me in the right direction with this? This is what he emailed me.
Here is an unbiased report on numbers from Obama's term that I thought you might find interesting. In my opinion, the cons outweigh the pros, some of which are listed below. I encourage you to read the article if you get an opportunity. It's a shame that there is no longer an assault weapons ban in place, which, if I'm not mistaken, could have easily been passed in Obama's first two years with a Democratic majority in both the House and Senate.
Gun sales have boomed under Obama, who did not deliver on campaign pledges to restore the Assault Weapons Ban that expired in 2004 or to require background checks for guns sold by non-dealers at gun shows.
Federal debt has soared under Obama, driven by a string of annual federal deficits exceeding $1 trillion each. The president inherited a gusher of red ink, which has continued despite his promise to cut deficits in half.
Typical families and households have suffered financially since Obama took office, and poverty has increased.
A rise in the number of persons on food stamps accelerated under Obama. Thats the highest number on record, and equal to nearly one of every seven Americans. Its also an increase of just under 46 percent since January 2009.
His source: http://factcheck.org/2012/10/obamas-numbers/
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)Did your friend actually look at the FactCheck site? Or is he just pulling those numbers from wherever?
That isn't what factcheck is saying. Sure, they are taking snippets from fact-check but it takes away the context.
As for the assault weapons ban, that would not have passed in Obama's first 2 years, and to do so would be to take away his ability to pass other more important legislation.
Z_California
(650 posts)Do you really think an assault weapons ban would have passed in the Senate where 60 votes are needed? The President never had 60 votes in the Senate, the fact that he got Healthcare done is nothing short of a miracle. So, no, the assertion in bold that it could have easily passed is complete BS.
As for Federal Debt soaring, the annual deficit is lower today than when Obama took office. Furthermore the increase in the rate of spending under Obama has been lower than any President in my lifetime (I'm 45). The Federal Debt would be soaring no matter who won the election in 2008. Same can be said for families suffering and using food stamps at a higher rate. How quickly everyone forgets the global financial catastrophe that was occurring during the last election.
Hope this helps your "friend".
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,588 posts)no one number tells the whole story. To think that an increase in food stamps is a result of Obama making it easy for people to get those is to miss the point. Uneployment, a depression or at least severe recession has been occuring which drives that food stamp number............. did you notice jobs are up too?
rfranklin
(13,200 posts)plus deregulation of the financial industry. Look at the pattern...Reagan double the deficit, Bush again doubled the deficit while starting two wars and a Medicare drug program off budget.
They crapped all over America and now they expect Obama to clean up their mess in record time.
By the way, at this point he has bettered Bush's record for creating jobs as well.
Under Obama the number of government employees has shrunk. The deficit has shrunk.
Your friend is just a rightwing parrot repeating talking points.
sinkingfeeling
(51,471 posts)GW Bush. Why does he/she think there are more households in poverty and on food stamps?
As to the debt, asked him about the $2 trillion added by Bush for unfunded wars, the unfunded tax cuts to the wealthy in 2001 and 2003, and the unfunded Medicare drug program. Here's a look at how we got to the national debt. And remind him that Obama has grown spending by the least amount in over 4 decades.
Narraback
(648 posts)"ox News is in business because their model of success depends on their viewers not knowing the facts. Host of Fox News, Chris Wallace, made the incorrect assertion during an interview Sunday that President Barack Obama had a filibuster proof majority (60 out of 100 votes) in the Senate for two years. The actual fact is Democrats only had a filibuster proof majority for 133 days, a far cry from the over 700 days that Wallace gleefully interjected."
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Summary: The Democrats only had 24 days of Super Majority between 2008 and 2010.
Discussion: The Democrats had a super majority for a total of 24 days. On top of that, the period of Super Majority was split into one 11-day period and one 13-day period. Given the glacial pace that business takes place in the Senate, this was way too little time for the Democrats pass any meaningful legislation, let alone get bills through committees and past all the obstructionistic tactics the Republicans were using to block legislation.
Further, these Super Majorities count Joe Lieberman as a Democrat even though he was by this time an Independent. Even though he was Liberal on some legislation, he was very conservative on other issues and opposed many of the key pieces of legislation the Democrats and Obama wanted to pass. For example, he was adamantly opposed to Single Payer health care and vowed to support a Republican Filibuster if it ever came to the floor.
Summary:
1. 1/07 12/08 51-49 Ordinary Majority.
2. 1/09 7/14/09 59-41 Ordinary Majority. (Coleman/Franklin Recount.)
3. 7/09 8/09 - 60-40 Technical Super Majority, but since Kennedy is unable to vote, the Democrats cant overcome a filibuster
4. 8/09 9/09 - 59-40 Ordinary Majority. (Kennedy dies)
5. 9/09 10/09 - 60-40 Super Majority for 11 working days.
6. 1/10 2/10 60-40 Super Majority for 13 working days
Total Time of the Democratic Super Majority: 24 Working days.
------------
There are plenty of source links at the end so your RW friend doesn't say "you got that from some lefty site"!
SunSeeker
(51,678 posts)"Summary:
1. 1/07 12/08 51-49 Ordinary Majority.
2. 1/09 7/14/09 59-41 Ordinary Majority. (Coleman/Franklin Recount.)
3. 7/09 8/09 60-40 Technical Super Majority, but since Kennedy is unable to vote, the Democrats cant overcome a filibuster
4. 8/09 9/09 59-40 Ordinary Majority. (Kennedy dies)
5. 9/09 10/09 60-40 Super Majority for 11 working days.
6. 1/10 2/10 60-40 Super Majority for 13 working days
Total Time of the Democratic Super Majority: 24 Working days."
http://mauidemocrats.org/wp/?p=2442
silverchair
(1,347 posts)Hey Guys,
Thanks for your response. All of these replies are very helpful. Can somebody explain the senate majority deal in Obama's first two years with a link?
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)hope it helps!!! There are lots of links to non-partisan sources.
http://factleft.com/2012/01/31/the-myth-of-democratic-super-majority/
Response to silverchair (Original post)
JaneQPublic This message was self-deleted by its author.
SunSeeker
(51,678 posts)Democrats did not have a fillibuster-proof majority for two years -- that's a LIE.
January 20, 2009 - After suffering a seizure during Barack Obama's inaugural luncheon, Senator Kennedys health forced him to retreat to Massachusetts.
April 28, 2009 news outlets issued the following report: Republican Sen. Arlen Specter has switched parties, which would give Democrats a filibuster-proof 60 seats.
Despite the fact that the media hailed the party switch of Arlen Specter and claimed it gave Democrats a filibuster-proof Senate, the Minnesota seat still remained vacant. The Senate had 57 Democratic members and 2 Independents. Technically, the Senate was two members short, but I'm counting Senator Kennedy even though he was at home ill because he did cast a vote in June. 59
May 15, 2009 Senator Robert Byrd was admitted to the hospital reducing the number of sitting Senators to 56 Democratic members and 2 Independents. 58
July 7, 2009 Al Franken (D) was sworn in after the election dispute over the Minnesota seat was decided in his favor. Senator Kennedy continued to recuperate at his home in Massachusetts and was unable to cast any more votes; Senator Byrd was still in the hospital. The Senate had 56 sitting Democratic members and 2 Independents. 58
July 21, 2009 Senator Byrd returned to the Senate making the count 59 seats. No Senator Kennedy.
Senator Kennedy died August 25, 2009.
The Kennedy seat was vacant from August 25 - September 24 when Paul G. Kirk was appointed to occupy his seat until the completion of a special election. The swearing-in of Kirk gave the Democrats a 60-seat majority.
Democrats had a 60 seat majority from September 24, 2009 thru February 4, 2010 when Republican Scott Brown got the Kirk/Kennedy seat. 4 months; not 2 years!!
This does not account for the number of days Congress was not even in session during that time. If one subtracts the number of days Congress was out, the time that President Obama had a Democratic majority in Congress is further reduced by more than 30 days, or another full month.
Of a possible 94 legislative days during that period, the Senate was only in session for 67 days, while the House only labored for 54.
Add to the above: Lieberman, Nelson, Landreau, and Lincoln, who may have caucused with the Democrats but they voted with the Republicans.
As for a suggested response to your friend's "unbiased" article, try this:
It was Bush who erased the surplus he was handed by Clinton and doubled the national debt on two unfunded wars, an unpaid-for prescription drug program (Medicare Part D- a gift to the pharmaceutical lobby), and of course the huge Bush tax cuts to the rich. It was Bush who handed over the $1 Trillion TARP to the banks in 2008.
Obama came in to a tanked economy (thanks to Republican deregulation and spending) that he had to rescue with a $800 billion stimulus that mostly consisted of middle class tax cuts and extensions of unemployment. That stimulus immediately slowed and then reversed the 700,000/month job losses we were suffering. If he hadnt done that, we would have gone into another great depression, then the debt would have really taken off. Instead, we have had 18 straight months of private sector job growth. Wed have an even better recovery, but Republicans AND Democrats have been slashing public sector employeesthose jobs have decreased, unlike private sector jobs.
Obama has stopped the spiral of federal spending that started under Bush.
But the Bush legacy lives on. Bush's tax cuts and two unfunded wars drive the current increase in the deficit.
CBHagman
(16,987 posts)[url]http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/16/news/economy/middle_class/index.htm[/url]
Incomes for 90% of Americans have been stuck in neutral, and it's not just because of the Great Recession. Middle-class incomes have been stagnant for at least a generation, while the wealthiest tier has surged ahead at lighting speed.
In 1988, the income of an average American taxpayer was $33,400, adjusted for inflation. Fast forward 20 years, and not much had changed: The average income was still just $33,000 in 2008, according to IRS data.
This didn't just start happening in 2009. For years high-wage jobs have been vanishing, union membership has been declining, corporations have eliminated regular pensions in favor of 401(k) plans, insurance premiums have been rising, and middle-income, let alone low-income, people have been shut out of the housing market in some places for years.
julian09
(1,435 posts)built in the budget are two tax cuts, still in effect, McCain would have had them as well, the off budget drug prescription for Medicare, would also have been there had McCain won, the two wars would still be there had McCain won, we would still be be in Iraq had McCain won.
Obama ended Iraq war. Obama helped the poor with food stamps created by the very policies that the Gop want to go back to. Bush spending on all the above without any revenue increase, now on top of that Rmoney would reduce taxes on everyone twenty percent and would reduce tax loopholes, very likely your mortgage deductions, ins deductions and make your income taxes higher.
I know one thing had McCain won, the Gop wouldn't have had that meeting, to stop EVERY bill that would have helped mend the economy and job creation. As for senate Al Franken, was sworn in, in May 2009; Sen Kennedy died in August 2009, lost his seat to Sen Brown (R) in Jan 2010. Dems far far from having two years of senate super majority, required to pass everything.
For no good reason they fail to point that out, they should also point out the bills they DIDN'T pass with a majority of votes because of unprecedented filibusters.
silverchair
(1,347 posts)Great responses. Keep it coming. I greatly appreciate all the information!
Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)Purged the last of them from my life by the end of Obama's first year in office, something I should have done YEARS before.
silverchair
(1,347 posts)Regarding friends that are polar opposites of me on the political spectrum, I'm tempted to dump them myself.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)Obama is responsible for a recession that started months before he was elected.
Reagan is responsible for eliminating inflation that began plumeting months before he was elected.
Obama gets no credit for unemployment being lower today than it was the day he took office.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Ask him if he's really sad there's no longer an assault weapons ban in place since, as a Republican he should be all in favor of everyone owning assault weapons, and ask him how President Obama is responsible for that, since it's Congress who let it expire. Exactly what is it that Obama was supposed to do since there was nothing he could do. Presidents can't veto something that Congress sunsets.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)Yes, he could have pissed off the NRA (who already hate him for being black). He didn't.
The annual debt has gone down, but it's still a debt that adds to the deficit. There's a difference there.
The "suffering" is real, but it's because we're still trying to recover from the shrub's two terms.
The "food stamps" thing is a result of the shrub's recession as well.
AND, not something you mentioned, THE MAJORITY of those on Welfare and food stamps are rural, white, and Republican. Challenge anyone to dispute that. They can't. The GOP frames it as an inner city black issue, but that's not at all close to the reality. Those same "anti-moocher" Republican voters are themselves moochers. The GOP knows this, but they'll still pull the race card out.
CBHagman
(16,987 posts)Romney and Ryan keep invoking the sufferings but somehow fail to mention they want to take a pair of clippers to the social safety net.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)silverchair
(1,347 posts)Hi everyone,
I appreciate that forum members are providing more feedback. My friend is sort of a moderate. He has become less conservative than when I first met him 10 years ago, but he still listens to right wing radio, which annoys me to death. He dislikes both Obama and Romney, and will be voting for Gary Johnson (like that's really going to make a difference). He voted for Bush twice, but actually regrets it now. He just threw that in my face yesterday. Guess he's trying to convince me not to vote for Obama, but that isn't going to happen.
Caretha
(2,737 posts)you more than likely can't switch him to vote for Obama, encourage him to vote for Johnson.
That can be your contribution to the Obama campaign.