2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumMinutemen? Koch brothers? Hillary just lost even the most remote possibility of my vote
I would have held my nose. But saying Bernie stood with the Minutemen? She has demonstrated conclusively tonight that she has left no sense of decency. Might as well say he keeps a white hood and robes in his closet. This is a bridge too far.
She should have listened to the Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/10/opinion/a-lesson-in-hillary-clintons-loss-in-michigan.html
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess I'm not the only one she just lost for good.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)LeFleur1
(1,197 posts)Particularly when you've been convinced your candidate is perfect. I admire her because she isn't passive aggressive in the least like her Independent opponent.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)elmac
(4,642 posts)this is what it takes to win an election. Just hope theres someone left to vote for her in the GE after she burns all her bridges.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)Except she won't be able to maneuver like Frank Underwood.
boomer55
(592 posts)Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)links showing he was member of minutemen vigilante groups.
NHprogressive
(56 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)in the same sentence - ever!
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)To score a political points, on a totally fake issue that she made up. If yhst's not passive-agressive, I don't know what is.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Really a tacky move I would have expected from the other side.
I smell the brimstone of desperation in the air.
Loki
(3,825 posts)You will never score any political points by doing that. Republicans do that kind of crap, and now I guess Bernie supporters do too.
Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)It was a slam on your hero, Hillary. Me thinks thou protesteth too much!
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)For lying, per usual. All of this bullshit about Bernie using the term ghetto is hysterical nonsense that ignores the fact that he was relaying a conversation he had with a BLM activist. Clinton and others, cynically forgot to mention that he was quoting a BLM a activist who has as much right to speak her BLACK experience as I do. To turn this into so battle of tears was despicable. Feel free to quote me, an actual black person on that when you are done being outraged
chervilant
(8,267 posts)the "you've been convinced your candidate is perfect" bovine feces, is a perfect example of the deceit rampant in the Clinton campaign, and among her supporters. Bernie supporters do not think Bernie is perfect. Furthermore, Bernie supporters are aware that our work is just beginning.
And, guess what, LeFleur1? We're in it for the long haul, and for everyone, even those who remain loyal to Hi11ary.
(Please don't bother to reply. You are the most recent addition to my IL.)
Loki
(3,825 posts)When you've got Mr. Perfect, what can I say. Truth is never pretty or unbiased. It's always going to piss someone off. I'm tired of old, white men telling me what I can do and wagging their finger. Doesn't work for me, never has, unless I was six years old and it was my father. He's gone now, so no one wags a finger and gets my support......ever.
paleotn
(18,015 posts)...I bet you would have loved you some Maggie Thatcher, fascist policies be damned. But, but...she's a woman!!!
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)NYtoBush-Drop Dead
(490 posts)OR sit home?
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)I think the Clintons are gross.
amborin
(16,631 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Hell, I even remember when Democrats would call out the liars on the Republican side. Now, many cheer when a Democratic candidate flat out lies her ass off.
casperthegm
(643 posts)I look at the gop clown car with the lies and insults and shake my head. But then I look at DWS and HRC and realize that the lines are starting to blur. It used to be a lot clearer. But between the lies, smears, bad decisions, cozy corporate relationships, and backroom handshake deals the democratic party is starting to look more and more like the the clown car party. But if Hillary wins the nomination I guess we are expected to vote for her "for the good of the party."
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)She needs new council, because whoever is feeding her these bright ideas, is making her commit political suicide.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)it.
You want to sell woof tickets? Do it with the truth.
Nite Owl
(11,303 posts)but her accusations of Bernie are so outrageous that it seems like she has lost her mind not just the election. Her problem with Bernie is there isn't much to accuse him of so she must lie. He is an open book to all.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Maybe she was just giddy with the idea of throwing a few more lies about him into the crowd.
She knows that even if they are lies, and even if he tries to rebut some of it later, some of it sticks. That's why she has no integrity...she doesn't care if he loses because of her lies. She can't win on her own merits, so this is all she has.
I didn't get to watch most of the debate, so tomorrow will try to find a video of it. But the little bit I did watch had me wanting to scream at her...just STFU! I may have to take "happy pills" tomorrow just to watch this in full.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)That is the default affliction one suffers once they begin to buy into right wing thinking.
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)well said ! "She suffers from Cognitive Dissonance"
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Her impression of Khrushchev (without the shoe) is not bad though:
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)the Republicans are DYING to run against her.... and I can see why. They'll slaughter us with everything they can find and it's endless. And with her trustworthy ratings... it's all believable by the general public.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)"We haven't even focused on, I mean here's a guy who's a they say socialist, but some people say he's a communist," Trump continued. "I shouldn't hit him too hard though, because if I hit him too hard then he'll go down, and it'll be a fight with Hillary, and maybe we want a fight for a while. So I'll say, 'Isn't he a wonderful guy?'"
They've thrown everything and the kitchen sink at Hillary and she's STILL standing.
The attacks that the Republicans do.. aimed at Hillary. Do you really believe they are silent in their attacks on Sanders because they have nothing? They're republicans what they can't dig up they'll make up.
snort
(2,334 posts)I've ever heard: What Trump thinks.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)the person above me made the claim that republicans are dying to challenge Hillary.
The counter point is that Trump appears more interested in challenging Sanders, and thinks it'd be an easier contest.
Your fallacious argument is crap. There was no mention.. at all.. that this is any way reason to vote for Hillary.
weak attempt at a strawman.
snort
(2,334 posts)tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)Socialist....how novel. That line of attack is about as predictable as the sun coming up in the morning. So what else are they going to attack him on except for the predictable stuff?
Hillary, on the other hand, they have a dossier on her like nobody's business.
Ivan Kaputski
(528 posts)tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)and big IF... Hillary steps into the race.
Think of how polarizing she is just within OUR party -- magnify that by the rest of the country who are Independents and Republicans. It just does not add up to say she'll somehow make up lost ground by being herself.
I wonder who she'll try to be next... hmmmm
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)That particular picture of FDR and Stalin would certainly be wonderfully delicious red-meat for the shallow idiocy of the here and now. However, as shallow idiocy scores bonus points to the sub-literate, as aptly illustrated by this thread, I can certainly realize your draw to it.
Ivan Kaputski
(528 posts)Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)The exact same tactic that HRC is using. Look how well that worked in MI.
Response to BeanMusical (Reply #83)
Post removed
Marr
(20,317 posts)Do you know what would've sold wonderfully for Hillary Clinton? Just embrace Sanders from the get-go. Offer nothing but praise, but say she's got more ability to actually move an agenda, because she has more of a political coalition that's willing to work with her. I wouldn't buy it, personally, but I'd respect it.
But she's so entitled that she and her supporters/staff have seemed offended that some smelly liberal would dare even run against her. And she's only getting worse.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)The River
(2,615 posts)and a thirst for power.
I wish the HillBilly duo would just take the money and retire.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)TTUBatfan2008
(3,623 posts)She is very likely to win the nomination at this point. She should not need these kind of dirty attacks. Her current strategy is very strange.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Speaks directly to her character.
tblue37
(65,552 posts)support and is afraid it's happening again. She is easily stampeded. That is one of her major flaws as a candidate. Compare her easy to panic campaign demeanor with Obama's no-drama cool and Sanders focused steadfastness. She gets called a weatherevane because she is so quicly and easily sent into a wild spin by the slightest breeze.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)I find Clinton to be very insecure. That's why she changes her positions, imo. She wants people to like her, heck, love her. She loves attention and craves acceptance and gratification from others. If one does not like what she is saying, she'll just say what she thinks they want to hear just so they can like her.
amborin
(16,631 posts)Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)and Hillary WILL LOSE!
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)She is afraid, the Bernmentum is growing.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)That would make her behavior 'standard' rather than 'strange.'
TTUBatfan2008
(3,623 posts)...the math is very much on her side. She could run a campaign the rest of the way focused on Trump and the GOP exclusively while ignoring Sanders and she would very likely win enough delegates to be the nominee. Even if she loses the rest of the states, he has to beat her by 10% or more in just about every one of them to end up with more pledged delegates. Maybe she is losing sight of this a bit.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)dogman
(6,073 posts)Seems it went out to the media but not internally to her.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)You have yours and I have mine.
tarheelsunc
(2,117 posts)I am pretty sure if Clinton had voted in support of the Minutemen that we would NEVER hear the end of it here.
Mufaddal
(1,021 posts)SCantiGOP
(13,878 posts)I try to avoid people who blatantly misrepresent the truth to make a point.
You said that Clinton "just lost" you with her comment last night. Yet you have almost 500 posts in the past 90 days on the Bernie Sanders group.
Still want to sit on the moral high ground and accuse Clinton of misrepresenting the truth?
Mufaddal
(1,021 posts)That will no longer happen. If you are concerned about the possibility of her winning in a general, that ought to give you pause, since an increasing number of Sanders supporters are feeling the same way given her shameless personal attacks and distortions.
SCantiGOP
(13,878 posts)1) Someone saying they will not vote for the eventual Democratic nominee; and,
2) Someone saying that they will vote for the eventual Republican nominee.
Votes decide elections; intentions and 'feelings' don't.
stranger81
(2,345 posts)and still pull the lever for her in November, no matter how many times they're threatened with the prospect of President Trump. They just aren't.
Are there any Clinton supporters who get how this is damaging her general election prospects? Or does everyone have their fingers lodged firmly in their ears?
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)They continue to believe if they drag out the possibility of Trump winning the election, which is IMHO a better possibility if he runs against Clinton, but what I was saying is the meme appears to be those that refuse to vote for Hillary are dumb, stupid, or don't realize they will be voting for a republican if they don't. It's not going to work....trust me.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)I would really have to be extremely self medicated to vote for a Republican like her.
I don't know if I will be able to compile a stash of weed and beer large enough to do so.
I will say one thing with certainty however, being wasted may, MAY allow me to vote for her if she sleezes her way to the nomination, but I sure as hell won't vote for her no matter what, if she wins by super delegates overwriting the will of the elected ones, and I know with great certainty I am only one of a really, really large number of people that feel the same way.
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)"...Voted YES on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project.
Voting YES on this amendment supports the Minuteman Project, a group of volunteers who have taken on surveillance of the Mexican border for illegal immigrants. The amendment states that US funds will not be used to tell the Mexican government about the whereabouts of the Minuteman Project volunteers. Proponents of the Minuteman Project say that they are volunteer citizens doing what the federal government SHOULD be doing, but has failed to do. Opponents of the Minuteman Project say that they are vigilantes at best and anti-Mexican racists at worst. The amendment states:
None of the funds made available by this Act may be used to provide a foreign government information relating to the activities of an organized volunteer civilian action group, operating in the State of California, Texas, New Mexico, or Arizona, unless required by international treaty.
The amendment's sponsor said on its behalf:
What this amendment does is it clarifies Congress' position on a Border Patrol practice or a practice of the US Government that tips off illegal immigrants as to where citizen patrols may be located.
As a response to the lawlessness along the Mexican border, a group has sprung up called the Minutemen Project, and the Minutemen Project is definitely not politically correct in Washington DC. However, they filled a void which the government was unable to fill.
There are over 7,000 volunteers in the Minutemen organization, and their help has been productive and good.
What my amendment does is simply says that the U.S. Government cannot tip off the Mexican officials as to where these folks are located. Plain and simple, nothing fancy about it. I am sure the Border Patrol will say, oh, no, we are not doing that, and yet one of the Web pages of the Secretary of Mexico had the information very explicit, and we just do not believe that is a good practice.
Reference: Department of Homeland Security appropriations; Bill HR 5441 Amendment 968 ; vote number 2006-224 on Jun 6, 2006..."
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)and she is accusing him of voting for a bill that protects the minutemen from prosecution. And it's been proven, nothing in the bill does that. Yet Hill camp keeps throwing it out there like a sloppy wet tennis ball, hoping a drooling dog will catch it and keep bringing it back for more...over and over again so they can keep tossing it out there.
You can't tell them the truth. They refuse to hear it.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)The hilarious thing about that Koch accusation was that Charles Koch's statement was actually an agreement with one of Bernie's core points about corporate welfare and the un-level playing field. In other words, Charles Koch actually said something good and reasonable...and Hillary uses that as an attack. Comedy gold.
Mufaddal
(1,021 posts)It's almost as if nuance exists.
Ochsfan
(25 posts)That's why I call her Hillarity Clinton. The stuff she says can't be taken seriously.
johnnyrocket
(1,773 posts)HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)is so willing to throw away 1/3 of Sanders supporters who say they can't see themselves voting for her -ever-.
That could translates to throwing away 5-ish percent of the total vote in the GE. I don't really understand why she persists in behaviors that are so off-putting for so many. I can only guess she doesn't believe there's a connection.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)(I mean Hillary and some of her supporters) is playing low-information voters.
The only reason to even mention them now is to try to manipulate people who think they matter at this point.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)there are a lot of low-information voters out there who fall for it. Because they are not on a political forum like this, where all these issues are discussed. I've learned so much I never would have known if I still had TV and didn't look for all my news on the web. But I moved to a spot without TV reception 18 years ago, and then a few years later got my first computer and got on-line and started learning about interesting topics...and I haven't looked back since. To me, learning on-line is so fascinating, I can't stop it, and I no longer have time for mindless sitcoms or talk shows. Except for a few special programs I enjoy/ed (like jon stewart daily show ), I spend most of my time talking to other people about politics and current events and researching answers to questions that come up during those discussions.
It's a shame. So many people know so little about politics and candidates and so many of them vote for all the wrong reasons, because they just don't have time to get involved in even researching it. I was guilty of that too...until 9/11 woke me up, I was just like that.
What bothers me most now is that I can find the real news, but I also see in clips here what so many people get, thinking it's unbiased news, and it isn't. A lot of it is just biased opinion mixed with a little biased news reporting. It's disgusting what has happened to media since I was in my 20's.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)she chooses to deceive.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)She will be pummeled for the next 48 hours for these comments.
She's lying. She's lying by omission. She's making associations that really don't exist--by manipulation.
She will be hit very hard over this snake-like behavior. It's so over the top.
She looks desperate. She's going to be a whole lost more desperate in the coming days!
I predict a whole lot of buyer's remorse in the next states that vote! I think people are going to start rejecting her. They all ready don't trust her. Now, she's giving people reasons to completely reject her.
You can go too far, Hillary--and you've done it!
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)If she had sense and self-control, she'd stop the bullshit attacks. Not that I mind the result.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)He's sly as a fox and he's probably relying on the people who don't double check things to bite the bait; hook line and sinker.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)INdemo
(6,994 posts)Last edited Thu Mar 10, 2016, 09:03 AM - Edit history (1)
John Brock's Bill's .Karl Rove's,and John Podesta's.
When she has right wing advisers om her team wouldn't we expect these lies..
bvf
(6,604 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Herman4747
(1,825 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)Herman4747
(1,825 posts)The Traveler
(5,632 posts)when they know they have nothing else to offer. By these deeds, we know certain that Ms. Clinton knows she cannot win a contest of ideas. Neo-liberalism (the philosophy of unrestrained markets) has little to nothing to offer the people of this country, but the Clintons are neo-liberals to the core. Ms Clinton will promise, slander, twist arms ... but they will give us only more of the same.
Trav
MisterP
(23,730 posts)you can hear her frontal lobes melting already from the strain of being asked things
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Seems to be a habit with her.
jalan48
(13,916 posts)Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)The one thing she has going for her is that it's hard for me to believe she would say anything that stupid. She may be untrustworthy, but she isn't stupid and she she surely kniows that kind of thing doesn't play in Peoria.
Jarqui
(10,131 posts)isn't good enough.
So she must resort to deceit. That's how she tries to flip votes.
Love this pic
JGug1
(320 posts)Get over it. They may not be "natural born" politicians but they are at least both naturalized politicians. So what that she said, probably correctly, that the Koch's liked something about him. The debate changes nothing. Either of them will be just fine with me.
llugo1013
(3 posts)But is it a coincidence that Koch Bros commercial came a few hours before debate...smells fishy to me...Bernie did not even endorse the message...Hillary is part of the Establisment...the Koch Bros are the Establishment....so who knows...
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)greymouse
(872 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)She has lost it.
Forget serious issues and solutions...she goes with shit like this.
She is One Issue and that issue is Slime.
PatrickforO
(14,605 posts)But, boy, didn't that Bernie hit a bunch of home runs in tonight's debate???
He was great, and those were some hardball questions. I wish the Republican lizards could have debates where people actually ask them serious and potentially damaging questions.
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)Ford_Prefect
(7,933 posts)There's no walking this kind of stuff back. Not unless she blamed and then fired Brock.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)Maybe she's planning a Hybrid rebirth? Hillary 4.0
glinda
(14,807 posts)chknltl
(10,558 posts)Well he does that sort of thing in debates 2 his opponents as well.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)she is beyond help.
fbc
(1,668 posts)She must really think that democrats are morons if she thinks anyone is actually going to believe her idiotic slander.
indivisibleman
(482 posts)Fair and square I can respect but made up shit is awful and disqualifying for the presidency.
elljay
(1,178 posts)Why, oh why, can't she stick to the issues? There are enough differences between her and Bernie's positions for voters to make an informed decision between the candidates. However, by attempting to characterize the most progressive member of Congress, who has held to the same principles his whole life as being anti-minority, anti-gun control legislation and a liar, she has crossed my line forever.
tblue37
(65,552 posts)rank and file Repub voters. Many of the issues are dangerous ground for her, so she deflects. One reason most Repub politicians use social wedge issues like guns and God is that their voters would agree with us on too many other issues. In fact, many Repub politicians have moved away from attacking gay marriage and in fact against attacking gay people generally because it alienates too many of their own voters now that the country has a majority of people who disapprove of discrimination against LGBT people.
Hillary knows Dem voters--and most others, as well--disapprove of unrestrained globalism on trade, of endless war, of trying to impose democracy by force in the Mideast, of unrestrained money in politics, and of the rigged economy and of politicians being the puppets of billionaires and corporations. So she muddies the water with these deceptive attacks on Bernie's record.
indivisibleman
(482 posts)and honestly moved closer toward her and was ready to support her if indeed she was the nominee. But since then she made unfair and misplaced criticisms of Bernie and each time she pushes me further and further away from her. She has to earn my vote first and it would take a lot to earn it back now that it is lost.
mak3cats
(1,573 posts)...from the most partisan of the other side (they aren't all unreasonable).
Anyway, here's the jury results, brought to you by Juror #4:
On Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:23 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Minutemen? Koch brothers? Hillary just lost even the most remote possibility of my vote
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511458477
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Refusing to vote for the Dem nominee and advocating that others do the same is grounds for a hide and a PPR.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Mar 9, 2016, 09:30 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I see no advocating for others to not vote for her.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's still primary season. Nice try. Your time would be better spent proving how your candidate is worth support instead of alert-swarming those who don't agree with you.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: not sure this quite crosses that line since we are still in primaries and further, i am not seeing the advocating
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Crosses the do-not-advocate-not-voting-for-Dems line.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Response to Mufaddal (Original post)
Post removed
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)You mean to tell me y'all can spew here day in and day out how you would rather note vote or let Trump win should she be the nominee and Still want to try and hold your vote hostage? Keep your vote. I am taking a que from y'all. I am voting true blue or NONE. I hope my peeps follow my lead. Lets all hold our vote hostage!
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)but will this be the second time you withheld you vote like the PUMA's in 2008? Do the chickens coming home to roost bother you?
Cheap_Trick
(3,918 posts)Sad and pathetic.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)Geronimoe
(1,539 posts)Just like in 2008 when she claimed Obama was associated with radical extremists, how his Reverend hated America, and Michelle didn't love America.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)Last edited Thu Mar 10, 2016, 08:55 AM - Edit history (1)
Hillary's internal polls are showing she is behind and the attacks will intensify...
Bill Clinton's probably leading this one..
OK I'm going to say it..Hillary is campaigning like a Republican and any one like those Congressman that have endorsed her are just Republican lites..Hillary is slowly working her way into the same class as Donald Trump
Hillary and her campaign now believe they have to lie about their opponent in order to gain,but Hillary is going to lose.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Slowly...?
IsItJustMe
(7,012 posts)Reminded me of the type of $#!t Trump pulls. Mud wrestling 101. If this is what people call getting tough, I will pass.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
jpb33
(141 posts)Hillary's judgement on campaign strategy is just as bad as her judgement when it comes to policy, having a server at her home, and giving speeches to Goldman Sachs for hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Duval
(4,280 posts)Eko
(7,423 posts)Don't get me wrong, I support Sanders. This vote just seems so odd.
mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)praising Castro and other Latin American leaders.
Why it was almost as if she knew in advance it was coming up, as obscure as it was.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)She deliberately makes it sound like he was out on the border with a sniper rifle shooting refugees.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/09/transcript-the-post-univision-democratic-debate-annotated/
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Kall
(615 posts)Some people try not to see it.
Ivan Kaputski
(528 posts)billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Private prison execs, hedge fund pedophiles Bill cavorts with, And assorted other criminals if she is going to stand up and lie and say Bernie is with the White Supremesists. My family in MI who are democrats refuse to vote for her even though they aren't Bernie fans either. They are disgusted and probably sitting the election out. Thanks Hillary.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Rinse and repeat.
BainsBane
(53,137 posts)And then blame his opponent for discussing votes that you refused to look into?
Here is the text of the amendment and the vote.http://www.ontheissues.org/HouseVote/Party_2006-224.
It was not a large bill. It was a specific admendment on the Minuemen, as you can see from the text above. Sanders yes vote is listed near the bottom under independents.
Just a few of many stories covering it.
http://www.latintimes.com/bernie-sanders-supported-border-vigilante-minutemen-group-symbolic-2006-vote-357705
http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/in-2006-bernie-sanders-voted-in-support-of-an-immigration-co#.ohkBbqn2a
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-02-19/in-nevada-bernie-sanders-immigration-record-is-a-nightmare
Discussing a candidates voting record is legitimate. It is also incumbent on voters to inform themselves. Now voters have different priorities. For some, immigration and social justice issues more generally may not top their list. But to insist there is something illicit about her raising facts, actual votes from her opponents record, is absurd.
Read the amendment. Look to the bottom for independents and see his name listed as voting yes. http://www.ontheissues.org/HouseVote/Party_2006-224.htm Clintons statement was factual.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)The votes are real, and for many in the Latino community hugely important.
I had known about the minutemen vote for a long time, way before Hillary mentioned it yesterday
It would have done well to him to explain it, instead of dismissing with so much contempt. But then again, how can such think be justified?
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Tonight, when asked if he supported the nativist hate group Minutemen, Bernie Sanders said, Of course not [
] I do not support vigilantes, and that is a horrific statement and unfair statement to make.
And while Sanders tries to portray himself as a lifelong advocate for immigrants, his voting history paints a very different picture:
2006: Bernie Sanders voted with a majority of GOPers to prohibit the U.S. Border Patrol from telling Mexico about the activities of the Minutemen, a nativist hate group. On June 6, 2006, Bernie Sanders voted for an amendment to the FY 2007 Department of Homeland Security Appropriations Act which read,Page 62, after line 17, insert the following: Sec. 537. None of the funds made available by this Act may be used to provide a foreign government information relating to the activities of an organized volunteer civilian action group, as defined by DHS OIG-06- 4, operating in the State of California, Texas, New Mexico, or Arizona, unless required by international treaty. According to the Congressional Record Rep. Kingston said, I also have an amendment that I have offered, and what my amendment does is it is a payment limitation amendment because our own Border Patrol apparently is tipping off the Mexican government as to where Minutemen are on the Mexico-United States border. Currently, we have 7,000 volunteers in the Minutemen organization. I say volunteers. These are unpaid people who are so outraged with the runaway illegal immigration problem that they have set up posts along the southwest border to help the Border Patrol and the local law enforcement agencies to tell them where the people are coming in and who is coming in. I invite all Members of Congress to go to the southwest border sometime this summer and take a look at how outrageous and how out of control this problem is. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, What follows is a state-by-state list of the 173 groups that constitute the nativist extremist movement, as fissured as it may be. In the case of three major groups the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, the Minuteman Project, and the Federal Immigration Reform and Enforcement Coalition acronyms have been added to help identify affiliated chapters that use other names. Groups marked by an asterisk (*) are also listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups. [H.Amdt.971 to H.R.5441, Vote #224, 6/6/06; CQ Almanac, 2006; Congressional Record, 5/25/06; Southern Poverty Law Center, Nativist Extremist Group List, (accessed, 12/8/15)]
http://correctrecord.org/fact-check-bernie-sanders-flat-out-misleads-voters-on-minutemen-immigration-vote/
druidity33
(6,452 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Is there a pattern on his votes to indicate a bias...a prejudice against Latinos? If so, I am interested in hearing it.
tblue
(16,350 posts)That's when the quantity & depth of her campaign's meanness and lies reached a tipping point and exploded my head. Now I not only know she has lied, I literally EXPECT her to lie. And she does, as if on cue. All trust is gone.
onecaliberal
(33,012 posts)There isn't a bridge too far. She lost me because she is the poster child for citizens United. She is bought and paid for. She don't give two shits about people. The contempt she displays at these debates, the lying and slander is beyond the pale.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)And a hypcrite too: she's the one attending fundraisers by the NRA!
eridani
(51,907 posts)Should knife manufacturers be held responsible for stabbings?
Now the issue of irresponsible retail sellers is an entirely different matter.
TBF
(32,153 posts)not that she's worse than any male politician out there with similar policies, but that is just it - I'm not voting for anyone who thinks Kissinger is a man to admire. Just NO.
Pisces
(5,604 posts)expect him to be the nominee. So much more communism crap will be thrown at you it will be insane. God forbid there
is a picture of Bernie gathering with communist in the 60's.
The right will try to annihilate Bernie with this info. He needs to answer hard questions if he wants to be the nominee.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Sigh. I remember when self-proclaimed Democrats actually had ethics.
Pisces
(5,604 posts)He received last night. If he can't handle Hillary he will not be able to answer the socialist, communist attacks that would be nonstop from the right.
sarge43
(28,946 posts)By the way, the Red Baiting is getting old. Half this country doesn't remember the Cold War and most of us who do don't want to play anymore.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)the border. Maybe he didn't realize it supported the Border Klan, but it did.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/8/5/1408937/-Bernie-Voted-to-Protect-the-Racist-Border-Militia-Thugs
book_worm
(15,951 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)nichomachus
(12,754 posts)It points to her lack of a core. No principles, no message -- just focus-grouped statements, which she'll change at a moment's notice. She appears to be a very dangerous person. Mrs. Clinton would be a terrible president.
If she can get this rattled during a primary campaign, imagine the knots that someone like Putin could tie her into.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)is well liked by more people than Hilly thinks. It's NRA's La papasqueek many have issues with. Tying whoever to the NRA in the end actually nets votes. Because Not all Tea Party paranoids trust the Right Wing on the gun issue. And anyone with their toe in the door knows dems would never do anything. But Hillary is making a point of saying Bernie won't . Okay whatever Hillary, make him more appealing to the anti Trumps
timlot
(456 posts)I'm starting to notice to parallels between Trump and Sanders supports. Both love to attack messengers rather than the message.
Mufaddal
(1,021 posts)"stood with the Minutemen vigilantes in their ridiculous, absurd efforts to, quote, 'hunt down immigrants'"--including Sherrod Brown--for their vote on a DHS appropriations act, then sure. Otherwise, it's an ugly smear.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)blatancy of those lies. I know she gets her advice from David Brock, would-be Rove, but the man is slime. And watching a woman who should know better than to even associate with such slime let alone take advice from him, sink that low, was for many people the last straw.
We do not need leaders who are so willing to lie. But worse to so underestimate the intelligence of the voters.
She lost a whole lot of people for good last night. Standing ovation for Bernie hopefully told her that.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)slimy with the blood he's covered in that I doubt snails would associate with him. She lost me when she praised this man, but I might have held my nose if she had denounced this man. Instead she doubled down on her starry eyed admiration of him in one of the recent debates. No thanks to a President Hillary Clinton for me.
Response to Mufaddal (Original post)
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Ivan Kaputski
(528 posts)I guess that comes from all that "experience" she's had as SOS.
Faux pas
(14,714 posts)is how she rolls.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)Hard to see how Secretary Clinton's numbers with those can go lower, but I think they now might.
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2324
35. Would you say that - Hillary Clinton is honest and trustworthy or not?
74% of Independents, and 30% of Democrats, say "No". How the heck does that win us swing states, especially if she loses the new/young voters? And that's before getting called out by the editorial board, and Ramos asked his indictment question on national TV.
Her campaign is one revelation away from representing an albatross to our ticket.
Hulk
(6,699 posts)Such a shame. I had better hope for her. Maybe to have her run on Bernies ticket as VP, but I'm not so sure that's even a good idea anymore. Forget her email and Benghazi, and all the rest of the made up bull shit. Reality of her actions is what is killing her today.
Jean Genie
(287 posts)Mrs Clinton will NEVER "win over and energize" the Sanders supporters in my house. So sorry, NYT.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)If they told her to deny Climate Change....she would just go up to the podium and do it!
Anyway, that's how it appears.
JEB
(4,748 posts)Not a good choice for Democrats
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)This kind of desperation mode started with WaPo and her agreement to do Fox when Hill's internal polling was starting to look problematic in Michigan. Now she has her surrogates engaging in full tilt attacks and it is looking ugly.
Response to Mufaddal (Original post)
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Mufaddal
(1,021 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)But we are tired of being bullied by the likes of Citizens United, the Corp-Media and Wall Fracking Street. They think if they ridicule people enough they will fall in line, because that's what they do.
In 2000 the Party Elite tried to bully the grass-roots Democrats into supporting another term of DLC/Clinton/Gore and they couldn't believe it when everyone didn't fall into line. They blamed Nader but it was their own fault. Here we are 16 years later and they are going to do it again. The DNC, Party Leadership, Corp-Media, Wall Street banksters, want the Democratic grass-roots to fall in line. They don't know real Democrats. We won't kow-tow.
on edit I want to give a shout out to my assigned follower.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)make them cower and change their behavior to suit you? You are sadly mistaken. Some people have been bullied into voting for the lesser of evils for a long time and are starting to stand up and and speak out. That's why Sanders has such a large following. People are tired of the culture of corruption of the authoritarian oligarchy.
Ivan Kaputski
(528 posts)There's a primary still going on.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)So do I.
Mufaddal
(1,021 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Mufaddal
(1,021 posts)but I always liked that quote, "And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."
Throd
(7,208 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)Catkin
(9 posts)She simply plays too dirty; the end does not justify the means. It is what we do everyday which reflects our true character. She seems to have very little character.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)because they are Nationalists. Disgusting actually.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)That went nowhere. If there is a pattern of discrimination, prove it.
Billsmile
(404 posts)Is not the problem.
Apparently, from what I've been reading online, the problem is with Sanders supporters who are unwilling to enthusiastically back Mrs. Clinton should she be the party's nominee.
There's apparently no downside to the underhanded campaign tactics used against Sanders by Secretary Clinton.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Gothmog
(145,965 posts)eggman67
(837 posts)I'm going to go out on a limb and guess I'm not the only one she just lost for good.
There is a 0% chance I will ever pull a lever next to her name.