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[cyberpj]

This message was self-deleted by its author (cyberpj) on Sun Mar 27, 2016, 07:58 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[itsrobert]

1. If you want to be fair, they actually said both did well

But Sanders did not get that boost he needs to win the main prize this week.

[Karma13612]

8. MSM might not want to give it to him, but anyone watching this debate

who is not already a Hillary or Bernie supporter would have been impressed with his answers and his command of the stage.

He didn't let her get away with anything.

And, lastly, he doesn't finger wag to be rude.

This is done for two reasons:

1) To alert the moderator that he wishes to rebutt
2) To alert the viewers that he wants to set the record straight on 'untruths' coming from his opponent.

and a 3rd benefit of the scowl and finger alert is to show his supporters that he will no longer let Hillary get away with crap like he has been in previous debates.

Tonight he showed strength and control and complete command of the stage.

[JRLeft]

14. Yes he did he let her off far too many times. He could done a lot of damage tonight.

[Qutzupalotl]

2. Sanders had a great night. Clinton choked at the end.

[metroins]

7. She owned the god segment at the end

I don't care about it, but a lot of voters do.

Sanders should have pandered more on that subject. It literally doesn't matter, but a winning candidate has to pander to the church going folk.

[Karma13612]

10. Not sure how she owned it just cause she goes to church and prays

during the day.

Bernie is very spiritual in a private way.

Voters these days don't like pandering.

Did you hear the question where they asked why Hillary came to Flint and politicized their water emergency. They obviously found it phoney and pandering.

[metroins]

16. Yes

that's what they want to hear about religion.

I'm not sure about the pandering on the water issue. I felt like the entire premise of the flint water issue was pandering, as it is primarily a state issue. Just like that woman complaining about her school, the maintenance of schools is done by the states.

I do think Anderson Cooper was in Clintons camp during the debate.

[kstewart33]

30. Thought Hillary was clearly better on her actions on Flint.

Bernie talks a lot but he hasn't actually done much.

I saw an interview with the Flint mayor. When she was asked about her contact with Bernie, she said that he was in town for 2 rallies but she never heard from him.

Clinton should have mentioned that.

[ThePhilosopher04]

15. Bullshit.

She didn't own anything. She gave her point of view and Bernie gave his.

[metroins]

20. and her point

was in more detail and said what the church voters wanted to hear.

[ThePhilosopher04]

27. Ok, she catered to SOME "church voters," but ...

Bernie's message hit home with far more voters I would suspect, including many "church voters" who feel the way he does.

[metroins]

28. Hey, I don't know

I'm the guy usually making Zombie Jesus jokes right about this time.

I just felt she talked more to the religious people.

[bobbobbins01]

19. That part at the end was rambling and dull.

She didn't own that at all, and the crowd applauded lightly at the end just because it was over. Sanders on the other hand took the gotcha question about God and hit a home run with it. Same with the question about his Judaism. He gave a short, but deeply moving personal story about growing up Jewish that really resonated with the audience.

They each had strong parts and weak parts throughout the debate, but the end was all Sanders.

[metroins]

21. I disagree. nt

[Kittycat]

39. I'm sorry

But that answer was disingenuous at best. It was a simple, softball question, and she stumbled all over it. It was cringeworthy.

[metroins]

43. I don't think that at all

I think it was softball but I think she knocked it out of the park and Sanders bunted.

[Kittycat]

46. We'll just have to agree to disagree

I grew up in the church, but I'm no longer religious. I'm pretty good at spotting bulkshit when I see it.

Bernie doesn't waiver, his answer is genuine to who he is.

Eta: my autocorrect is making me be a better person tonight, lol.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. That point does not belong in a debate stage

and it was asked for the same reason JFK kept getting asked about being Catholic.

There is this thing called separation of church and state.

[metroins]

35. I'm on your page

But that's not realistic.

And separation of church and state isn't mentioned in the constitution and is still being currently debated.

I'm very very very far from religious and denounce theism in all aspects.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. It is the establishment clause

in the bill of rights, and that bill of rights is considered part of the constitution,

This is so basic it is not even funny.

[metroins]

40. If you can find the words

"Separation of church and state" then you're reading a different document.

Separation of church and state is an interpretation and not a textual aspect of our ruling documents.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States

I whole heartedly back it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. Once again, it is the establishment clause

which is the first words in the first amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dale-hansen/yes-there-is-a-constituti_b_8171550.html

http://americanhistory.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199329175.001.0001/acrefore-9780199329175-e-29

And then there is a slew of case law on this.

http://candst.tripod.com/table1.htm

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/establishment-clause

https://billofrightsinstitute.org/cases/

I know it is a RW point of view that since the words are not there, it does not exist, It is THE FRACKING ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE

http://www.theocracywatch.org/separation_church_state2.htm

[metroins]

48. And again...it's not there.

You can argue all you want, but those words were uttered by Thomas Jefferson and an interpretation, not textual.

Argue as much as you'd like, but you're not arguing against me. You're arguing actual text and precedent.

If you re read our exchanges, I've told you the phrase "separation of church and state" will not be found in our ruling documents. It is not. I have also told you, it is an interpretation. Which it is.

I am not sure why you're continuing down this rabbit hole, but if you read my posts, I've only stated facts.

Read our exchanges...

Then ask yourself what you're arguing.

I am factually correct with every post and I also support the interpretation of "separation of church and state". You keep saying it's found in the establishment Clause, which it is not. It is interpreted from there, but not found there.

Don't let express facts get in the way of implied meanings.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Forgive me if I take Johathan Tribe

and other experts first And in their minds it is the establishment clause.

And with that, this country is reverting towards a very dark place. and people are enabling it. Oh and I will say it, the question is to try to prove he is a Jew, and yes that is a dog whistle, Next you will tell me that is not the case either.

[metroins]

50. What on earth

Are you talking about?

A Jewish person believes in the same yahweh as a Christian or Muslim person. Which to put lightly, in my opinion, are all fairytales.

Separation of church and state is one of the greatest INTERPRETATIONS of our ruling documents. But it is not found in the documents and is subject to just that, interpretation.

I don't know what you're arguing here.

[Major Hogwash]

37. She cratered.

Bernie owned that debate!

[NRaleighLiberal]

3. follow the money. that provide$ the an$wer$.

[restorefreedom]

4. the people who visited time disagree

88% bernie
12% hillary

http://time.com/4249119/democratic-debate-seventh-flint-michigan-cnn-poll-survey/j

[Barack_America]

5. There's actually a more intelligent discussion happening on Fox.

As crazy as that is. A panel fairly pointing out hits and misses of both candidates. MSNBC is completely unwatchable, beyond the bias, there's no substance to the discussion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Trump is running and the bosses at Fox fear trump

so that does not surprise me. I have seen a few pieces that have surprised me. After thinking about it, not any more.

[onecaliberal]

6. Her demeanor and the condescending attitude with questioners was terrible.

She choked multiple times. She was clearly angry all night.

[BernieforPres2016]

9. Hillary got knocked off stride early

First when Bernie hit on the trade bill issue, then when of all the causes she possibly could have taken up, she decided to champion the Import/Export, as big a symbol of our corporate welfare as you could find. Bernie said it was known in the Senate as "The Bank of Boeing", Anderson Cooper followed up and said that Sanders was correct that 75% of Ex-Im funding went to large corporations. I don't think Hillary ever recovered until near the end. I thought her answer on religion was her best of the night (even though I'm not religious) and she actually come off as human for a change.

Overall, I thought Bernie crushed her. It seemed to me that tonight he quit worrying about being too respectful to Hillary and Obama. On the fracking question, when Anderson Cooper said well a lot of Democratic governors support it, are they wrong, Bernie said yes, they're wrong. And then from there he said both parties have gotten a lot wrong. And he pointed out that just about every Democratic governor and every Democratic member of Congress was siding with Hillary and he was basically running against the establishment political system on both sides.

I loved it and hope a lot of independents were watching tonight.

[FlatBaroque]

12. She's been angry for a very long time /

[kstewart33]

31. Huh? I must have missed that. nt

[chillfactor]

11. LOVE it! n/t

[BernieforPres2016]

13. MSNBC is dead to me.

They are the worst. Last week Chuck Todd and a Hillary supporter (not identified as such) said they thought Bernie had basically given up and was basically going to try to bring his supporters on board with her for the general election. I wonder if they're going to push that again tomorrow night. But I don't wonder enough to watch them any more.

[RunInCircles]

17. I thought MSNBC was too blatant in its propaganda

Showed clips of Hillary speaking cut off before Bernie's rebuttal was aired. Nitpicking over and over their perceived weak points in his speech while trumpeting Hillary's superb answers. It was so over the top blatant that I am not sure if they realize they don't create the news any more.

[ThePhilosopher04]

18. MSNBC is Clinton propaganda. No longer a relevant network.

[Armstead]

22. There's unstated biases...in who they're using

[NurseJackie]

23. Maybe they're being honest.

[kstewart33]

24. Thought Bernie started strong but Hillary gradually overcame him.

Hillary supporter here. Bernie has greatly improved as a debater. But he seems to be increasingly seeming like a one-issue candidate. Wall Street is a very big issue, but there are other major issues that he does not do as well with.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

32. I think he covered a lot of ground

so I don't think he was talking about one issue. He does wonderfully with the environment for instance but it is not one issue.

[Gwhittey]

51. Well Hillary said he was so his supporters

have to think it or they would get kick out of the club. Hillary does not think crony capitalism is a issue at all because to tell the truth if I was getting 150 million in 10 years from them I would probably do same thing. But I do think I would of stop after SoS bit and just focused on more charity work or something to counter act it before I tried to run on Tuff on Wall Street platform. I mean 150 million WTF you need more for. But back to the topic.

HRC supporters have a hard time seeing that Money in politics is #1 issue we have facing the nation. Reason I say it is #1 is no matter what change we want to get done there can never be a fair debate over it because the elected officials are not doing will of people they are doing will of highest bidder. So once we change the system so Congress does not get fat paydays we can start fixing everything else that they have broken.

[olddots]

25. news has been product placement for 40 years

now a word from Prozac .

[Nyan]

26. The current form of giant media conglomerates came into being

largely thanks to the Clintons, 3rd-way dems, and repugs' initiatives (1996 Telecommunications Act).
I say break up the big media as big banks ought to be broken. Bring back the news. Get rid of billionnaires' incessant self-serving propaganda. The so-called pundits and news hosts, at this point, are nothing but a bunch of overpaid hacks -Washington power-elite wannabes, and lackeys for the powers that be.
One of the reasons why Bill is the richest US president is because he's done more than any president to create the current form of big banks. And big media has a lot to thank him for as well. Hillary ain't gonna rock the boat. On the other hand, Bernie openly criticizes "corporate media" and "establishment media," even joking that if he weren't a politician, his dream job would be the president of CNN.

And surprise, surprise. Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders -guess who they like better.

[Gwhittey]

52. Trump?

Well Trumps podium got more Air time Sat while Hillary was giving her LA win speech. They did not even play audio. Just sat there filming Trumps empty podium like lost puppies wait at window for their owner to get home.

[Nyan]

56. Drumpf is good for the bottom-line.

He attracts eyeballs to the TV set. Corporate media is biased towards sensationalism, controversy, conflicts and spectacles, and Drumpf provides them with all of that. He's corporate media's favorite train-wreck. Surely you must know that.
And BTW, giving more airtime to Hillary is not necessarily the best thing you can do in order to help her against Bernie -there hasn't been a positive correlation between her likability factor and how much airtime she gets (I'd say there's a negative one).

[Gwhittey]

57. Now yea

But 1 month ago they did it to try and stop people in first few states to primary from seeing Sanders. They forgot there was a Internet I guess. I bet they thought it would been Clinto -90 Sanders - 10 in Iowa and they could start working on GE.

[Major Hogwash]

29. MSNBC fired Phil Donoahue for talking about the Iraq War before it even started!!!!!!

What do you expect from a General Electric subsidiary??

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. No longer owned by GE,

just for completeness, but COMCAST is even more blatant.

[Major Hogwash]

42. It was in 2003.

When GE's slogan was "we bring good wars to life."

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. I know

[Major Hogwash]

47. Now.

[Matariki]

41. Gaslighting an entire nation

[BernieforPres2016]

54. I love that movie

Had never heard the expression until the last year or so.

[Lizzie Poppet]

53. Corporate center-right media: all-in for the corporate center-right candidate.

And we peasants better fucking well learn to like it...

[The Midway Rebel]

55. He cleaned her clock.

She sounded harsh, talked over time limit countless times, interrupted, and looked weak on every issue. She was back on her heels the whole time.