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virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:23 AM Mar 2016

What we learned tonight.....Hillary can't win big outside of the confederacy.

also, Hillary got 700,000 votes in Massachusetts in 2008.....only in the high 500,000's this time.

Why the huge dip in votes?

Can she get a big win outside of the confederacy?

185 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What we learned tonight.....Hillary can't win big outside of the confederacy. (Original Post) virtualobserver Mar 2016 OP
K & R AzDar Mar 2016 #1
Hillary will be the Democratic Candidate for President. FarPoint Mar 2016 #2
she will need to actually prove that virtualobserver Mar 2016 #6
really? Hiraeth Mar 2016 #8
If the only states she can score solid wins in... HooptieWagon Mar 2016 #17
that's true grasswire Mar 2016 #29
This message was self-deleted by its author Matt_R Mar 2016 #61
And will lose in the general election. basselope Mar 2016 #53
Just look at total votes in states like Georgia greymattermom Mar 2016 #83
I feel Hillary can empower the Democratic Party to a landslide. FarPoint Mar 2016 #94
well, not according to all the polls for months now pdsimdars Mar 2016 #95
Oh..you have little faith. FarPoint Mar 2016 #99
Hillary has no charisma Press Virginia Mar 2016 #126
Hillary Clinton has been a dedicated, committed Democrat. FarPoint Mar 2016 #130
Hahahahahahahahahahaha! Yeah, Ooookay Press Virginia Mar 2016 #132
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2016 #179
Well, since you asserted it, it's clearly true. Gene Debs Mar 2016 #77
yep basselope Mar 2016 #140
thank you for crystal ball premonition iAZZZo Mar 2016 #81
Maddi, just give her the damn dollar, already! Buns_of_Fire Mar 2016 #106
The rest of us would like to vote, please. Thank you. Le Taz Hot Mar 2016 #145
No she wont but keep dreaming. She CANNOT win outside of those states where sabrina 1 Mar 2016 #169
There's a difference between "hasn't" and "can't". winter is coming Mar 2016 #3
+1 VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #4
I'm not assuming...I'm just looking at the results. She has to prove that she can. virtualobserver Mar 2016 #10
I thought Bernie was supposed to drive turnout to historic levels redstateblues Mar 2016 #5
it will take time....and he has time....by the time he visits all 50 states....he will achieve it. virtualobserver Mar 2016 #13
He won by respectable margins in Colorado, Minnesota, Oklahoma and above all in the state JDPriestly Mar 2016 #62
She only won Massachusetts by 1 point. JDPriestly Mar 2016 #79
She only won Mass by one point... Svafa Mar 2016 #150
Ouch! 2% pdsimdars Mar 2016 #96
No one has ever said that Bernie would drive turnout to historic levels. Dawgs Mar 2016 #183
Is the confederacy back! Agschmid Mar 2016 #7
Hey, John Lewis used that term today on TV. grasswire Mar 2016 #33
It is back, actually in a real sense virtualobserver Mar 2016 #67
Very good point pdsimdars Mar 2016 #98
She's strongest in states that Dems have no chance of winning. reformist2 Mar 2016 #9
538 is predicting HC wins in MI, IL, OH, NC, & FL. And these are purple-to-blue states. spooky3 Mar 2016 #11
528 is so overrated. Bernie needs to win Ohio - and he will. reformist2 Mar 2016 #14
538 was dead on in other recent predictions. I guess we'll soon see whether it is right spooky3 Mar 2016 #19
538 completely missed Oklahoma. w4rma Mar 2016 #56
No, it didn't. It gave her only a 51% chance of winning. spooky3 Mar 2016 #65
It wasn't 51% until Super Tuesday. w4rma Mar 2016 #93
nicely played . . . .. pdsimdars Mar 2016 #100
And his win was still outside their MoE. jeff47 Mar 2016 #153
So going 14 for 15 on the Democratic side mythology Mar 2016 #131
NC and FL are confederate states , although I give Bernie a shot at NC. virtualobserver Mar 2016 #20
I would put my money on 538 for them. spooky3 Mar 2016 #23
that can change virtualobserver Mar 2016 #34
Of course it can. But it's my money. spooky3 Mar 2016 #66
She can't win a GE in the confederacy. Downwinder Mar 2016 #12
She can if all of us vote for her. nt Jitter65 Mar 2016 #163
She does have an issue with actual Blue states thus far... Barack_America Mar 2016 #15
Didn't she just win Massachusetts? spooky3 Mar 2016 #25
By 1.8% and dropping. Care to look at Bernie's margins in other Blue states? Barack_America Mar 2016 #30
Facts NWCorona Mar 2016 #37
All of the states he won had much larger non-Latino white populations than average. spooky3 Mar 2016 #48
Like she did in 2008 but this one is close nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #60
American Samoa, too! Who knew it was part of the Confederacy? Tanuki Mar 2016 #104
You know that a state only counts BlueMTexpat Mar 2016 #116
In so many words, that's what she's saying. consciouslocs Mar 2016 #129
Before it was Eko Mar 2016 #16
Narrow victories won't clinch the nomination...this will drag out.... virtualobserver Mar 2016 #26
If I recall correctly, in 2008 Clinton had pretty big wins in New York and California, but Obama had onenote Mar 2016 #18
Really? A Democrat had no problem winning CA and NY....what a shocker! virtualobserver Mar 2016 #21
Exactly. So why do folks think that the results in the primaries foretell ]the result in the GE. onenote Mar 2016 #68
they aren't saying that the results foretell the result, they are just saying that Democrats can't.. virtualobserver Mar 2016 #71
California is Bernie's Le Taz Hot Mar 2016 #147
Just like Obama in '08 theboss Mar 2016 #22
Because DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #24
but Benghazi! Emails! spooky3 Mar 2016 #27
Compared to Condi Rice and Colin Powell... FarPoint Mar 2016 #135
Plenty of time to change that virtualobserver Mar 2016 #31
Yes, because he has so much momentum from his resounding Super Tuesday victory. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #35
He does....4 solid wins and a stalemate. virtualobserver Mar 2016 #39
Not all states are the same... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #42
four is enough virtualobserver Mar 2016 #44
K&R warrprayer Mar 2016 #28
You go! stevil Mar 2016 #32
I'm just pointing out the reality of the situation virtualobserver Mar 2016 #36
Keep it up stevil Mar 2016 #59
Here have a gif ismnotwasm Mar 2016 #38
I love it. virtualobserver Mar 2016 #45
... ismnotwasm Mar 2016 #47
Is she running for the President of the CSA? thereismore Mar 2016 #40
She is almost ready to take the oath of office. virtualobserver Mar 2016 #43
LOL, nice framing. (n/t) SMC22307 Mar 2016 #41
Every time a Sanders voter says "Confederacy" Codeine Mar 2016 #46
I used the word "Confederacy" because it is a coalition of conservative white voters.... virtualobserver Mar 2016 #54
Wait? The confederacy was a coalition of African Americans and their oppressors? onenote Mar 2016 #69
I'm speaking about a voting "confederacy" unique to the southern states virtualobserver Mar 2016 #70
You are mistaken. The "conservative white votes" are going to Trump and Cruz. Clinton is Tanuki Mar 2016 #103
I live in the south. I know Clinton voters. I got my "odd notion" by the experience of living here. virtualobserver Mar 2016 #108
I live in Tennessee. I know the difference between a conservative and a liberal. I know Tanuki Mar 2016 #113
I'm not talking about RW conservatives, I'm talking about conservative Democrats. virtualobserver Mar 2016 #115
Whatever consciouslocs Mar 2016 #88
It isn't an organized coalition virtualobserver Mar 2016 #139
IL, MI, OH, NY, NJ, MD, PA, CA and Washington DC. Garrett78 Mar 2016 #49
we will see virtualobserver Mar 2016 #50
She's ahead in the polls in each one of those states and predicted to win them by the 538. Beacool Mar 2016 #63
Perhaps it's just wishful thinking run amok... Garrett78 Mar 2016 #84
Yeah, that was my point too. Beacool Mar 2016 #178
What we learned tonight...Sanders can't get the minority vote. lunamagica Mar 2016 #51
So you are saying that Bernie is so horrible that minority voters would rather have Trump? virtualobserver Mar 2016 #55
What I'm saying is that minorities will give Hillary the win both in the primaries and the GE lunamagica Mar 2016 #57
I guess we'll find out virtualobserver Mar 2016 #58
I just wonder pdsimdars Mar 2016 #101
Polls? Last night's "poll" proved that Sanders can't get the minitiy vote lunamagica Mar 2016 #112
Are the minorities in South Carolian, Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama all going to move to Ohio? Dawgs Mar 2016 #184
are you saying Hillary is so terrible that young white "progressive" voters would rather have Trump? onenote Mar 2016 #72
No, I'm not.... virtualobserver Mar 2016 #74
so you're saying that if Bernie is the candidate minorities won't vote or will vote Republican? azurnoir Mar 2016 #73
No, what I'm saying is that minorities will take Hillary to victory both in the primaries and the GE lunamagica Mar 2016 #111
It takes a village azurnoir Mar 2016 #141
So you're saying that if HRC is the candidate progressives won't vote or will vote Republican? 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2016 #121
You do know that the "minority vote" Le Taz Hot Mar 2016 #149
How could I forget? She won 70% of the Latino vote last night lunamagica Mar 2016 #164
2008 is not 2016 Le Taz Hot Mar 2016 #170
WHAT? She WON the Latino vote by 70% LAST NIGHT. March 1, 2016 lunamagica Mar 2016 #171
One more time. Le Taz Hot Mar 2016 #172
OK, so your friends wont vote for her. She has won the Latino vote in seven states. How is that lunamagica Mar 2016 #173
We'll see how she does out West. Le Taz Hot Mar 2016 #174
Because Southern blacks are exactly the same as every other minority group. jeff47 Mar 2016 #154
She wo 70% of the Latino vote. Didn't you know that? lunamagica Mar 2016 #165
And Sanders crushed her with the black vote in VT and NH jeff47 Mar 2016 #167
His home state and neighboring state? GMAB lunamagica Mar 2016 #168
so the black people who actually know Bernie, like him. virtualobserver Mar 2016 #182
they always find a way to dismiss anything positive about Bernie virtualobserver Mar 2016 #181
We stand in the presence of greatness. Half-Century Man Mar 2016 #52
What we learned tonight is that Hillary will be the nominee. Beacool Mar 2016 #64
You go girl, keep the dream alive pdsimdars Mar 2016 #102
Dream? Beacool Mar 2016 #176
Bernie won 4 states by double digits, 3 of them by 19 points...so we learned no such thing. virtualobserver Mar 2016 #109
You miss the point completely hack89 Mar 2016 #155
and Bernie will get more delegates in future primaries virtualobserver Mar 2016 #157
But not more that Hillary hack89 Mar 2016 #158
you imagine that he doesn't.... virtualobserver Mar 2016 #160
I can read the polls. I can also see how different demographics are voting hack89 Mar 2016 #161
then you should have nothing to worry about virtualobserver Mar 2016 #162
That's true. Haven't been concerned since Nevada. Nt hack89 Mar 2016 #166
Well, then you missed the point of the lesson. Beacool Mar 2016 #177
I did not miss the point, I considered it invalid. virtualobserver Mar 2016 #180
negatives fierywoman Mar 2016 #75
You should probably look at African-American populations in the South vs other primary states so far Spider Jerusalem Mar 2016 #76
Yes consciouslocs Mar 2016 #92
I'm not convinced that results in the north will be the same virtualobserver Mar 2016 #137
Uh, no. jeff47 Mar 2016 #156
I'm addresssing the "Confederacy" idiocy Spider Jerusalem Mar 2016 #185
Hills is the second place nominee of Dixieland, the Repubs will squash her here aspirant Mar 2016 #78
Agreed. SoapBox Mar 2016 #80
This is incredable news, Rincewind Mar 2016 #82
OOOOOO! DemonGoddess Mar 2016 #124
Or Nevada! (Nt) Starry Messenger Mar 2016 #159
K&R: she will lose. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #85
Turn out was lower than in 2008 nt Buzz cook Mar 2016 #86
You call her black support in the south "the confederacy"? Onlooker Mar 2016 #87
Not Really the vibe I'm getting from SEN Sanders, but... consciouslocs Mar 2016 #90
no, I'm talking about her combination of black support along with conservative white support virtualobserver Mar 2016 #136
What I learned tonight from this thread Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Mar 2016 #89
The south is not under the bus....it is simply Hillary's firewall....but there are 50 states. virtualobserver Mar 2016 #119
Haaaaaaa shenmue Mar 2016 #91
Another point, Bernie keeps rising in the polls as Hillary slowly declines. pdsimdars Mar 2016 #97
there is truth in your words virtualobserver Mar 2016 #110
What we learned last night: sufrommich Mar 2016 #105
oklahoma and colorado are whiter, but not white as the driven snow virtualobserver Mar 2016 #138
Another attempt to minimize the value of the votes of POC. NT Adrahil Mar 2016 #107
Not at all....Hillary would be toast without votes of POC. virtualobserver Mar 2016 #117
Simply put, all things considered, we're toast if Clinton is nominated. nt Zorra Mar 2016 #114
I agree.....and the race with Trump would drive Hilary's negatives in the polls even higher virtualobserver Mar 2016 #118
What will be the "lesson" when she wins Michigan, Illinois, New Jersey, New York? NT Adrahil Mar 2016 #120
We will see how those states actually turn out virtualobserver Mar 2016 #122
Yes we shall.... Adrahil Mar 2016 #123
yeah plus they cheated in MA Cobalt Violet Mar 2016 #125
par for the course for Bill Clinton....no one knows more about cheatin' than that guy. virtualobserver Mar 2016 #127
one ome despicable attempt to marginalize what is essentially a base of black voters bigtree Mar 2016 #128
not at all......I'm just showing the flip side of the equation virtualobserver Mar 2016 #134
I see that too. I think the race will pick up for Sanders here on out. AgadorSparticus Mar 2016 #133
Which non-confederacy States will she lose in the next two weeks? brooklynite Mar 2016 #142
perhaps none of them, perhaps all of them. virtualobserver Mar 2016 #144
I find "anything can happen" a fairly lightweight answer... brooklynite Mar 2016 #148
Bernie has to make the case in those states virtualobserver Mar 2016 #151
And Bernie still can't win minority votes only white voters like him book_worm Mar 2016 #143
he has won minority votes in every state, just not as many as Hillary virtualobserver Mar 2016 #146
platitudes Protalker Mar 2016 #152
K & R AzDar Mar 2016 #175
 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
17. If the only states she can score solid wins in...
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:34 AM
Mar 2016

...are states she'll lose badly in the GE, then the whole 'electability' thing is a pipe dream.

Response to grasswire (Reply #29)

greymattermom

(5,754 posts)
83. Just look at total votes in states like Georgia
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:27 AM
Mar 2016

Hillary won the democratic primary, but Trump got a LOT more votes than Hillary, and he's in a 3 way race. Scary to me. I live in Georgia.

FarPoint

(12,388 posts)
94. I feel Hillary can empower the Democratic Party to a landslide.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:06 AM
Mar 2016

I'm with Hillary as will be most Democrats, Independents and bitter republicans who won't support Trump.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
95. well, not according to all the polls for months now
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:15 AM
Mar 2016

but then again the Hillary supporters don't seem to be interested in facts

People don't like her according to the polls and they also don't trust her. Of course Bernie's numbers in these areas are at the top.

But what does that matter when you don't pay attention to facts, right?

FarPoint

(12,388 posts)
99. Oh..you have little faith.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:24 AM
Mar 2016

I'm completely comfortable with realizing the Clinton charismatic leadership. ....as do others around the world.

FarPoint

(12,388 posts)
130. Hillary Clinton has been a dedicated, committed Democrat.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:49 AM
Mar 2016

Hillary Clinton is beloved around the world equal to President Obama. So, yea, charisma has been a positive characteristic, one of a multitude for Hillary Clinton.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
132. Hahahahahahahahahahaha! Yeah, Ooookay
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:00 AM
Mar 2016

Bill has charisma. President Obama has charisma.

Hillary is like getting socks for Christmas. They're nice but they aren't what anyone really wants

Response to FarPoint (Reply #130)

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
169. No she wont but keep dreaming. She CANNOT win outside of those states where
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:13 PM
Mar 2016

Conservative Dems were her only hope, and in a GE the Repub will win those states.

Bernie is on his way to the Convention.

I see Hillary is now pleading with Bernie supporters to 'come on over' to her campaign. Lol!

She doesn't get that a majority of his supporters are formerly Independents BECAUSE the will not vote for the Establishment, Greens, previously NON voters too disgusted until Bernie to even bother to voted

So good luck with first bashing Bernie Supporters with vile attacks including using the Race and Gender cards. then asking for their votes.

But she does know she can't win without them. Should have thought about that before she and her supporters decided that attacking VOTERS was the way to go.

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
3. There's a difference between "hasn't" and "can't".
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:28 AM
Mar 2016

I think it's too early in the primary process to assume "can't".

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
5. I thought Bernie was supposed to drive turnout to historic levels
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:28 AM
Mar 2016

Hillary winning a big predominantly liberal state like Mass has to really hurt. Especially since Bernie said he would win it. Ouch!

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
13. it will take time....and he has time....by the time he visits all 50 states....he will achieve it.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:32 AM
Mar 2016

Ask yourself why the people in Oklahoma, Minnesota, and Colorado didn't believe that this race is over.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
62. He won by respectable margins in Colorado, Minnesota, Oklahoma and above all in the state
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 02:13 AM
Mar 2016

that knows him best: Vermont.

Bernie won by 72 percentage points in his home state, Vermont.

Hillary won by only 36 points in the home state in which she was for many years the wife of the governor.

Bernie did much better in his state than Hillary did in hers.

Bernie is building name recognition and voter loyalty. Hillary is a household name but she is losing voter loyalty.

Bernie is doing extremely well. He has a good chance to win.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
79. She only won Massachusetts by 1 point.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:14 AM
Mar 2016
http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results

Bernie won Colorado by 19 points, Minnesota by 20 points, Oklahoma by 10 points and Vermont by 72, yes, 72 points.

Hillary won the former confederate states, but winning there is irrelevant to November if the past is any prediction.

http://www.270towin.com/historical-presidential-elections/

Bernie is the favorite of the Democrats in Democratic states -- at least thus far.

Hillary does well in Republican states.

Not surprising really. She is very Republican in many respects.

Bernie is the true Democrat in spite of the years he ran as an Independent.

Svafa

(594 posts)
150. She only won Mass by one point...
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:09 PM
Mar 2016

...and who knows what would have happened if it weren't for some seriously sketchy shit going down.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
96. Ouch! 2%
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:19 AM
Mar 2016

That's the margin and with Bill ILLEGALLY interfering with the election. They have to cheat to win. What else is new?

 

Dawgs

(14,755 posts)
183. No one has ever said that Bernie would drive turnout to historic levels.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 04:16 PM
Mar 2016

That's an untruth at best.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
67. It is back, actually in a real sense
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 02:16 AM
Mar 2016

In one way....the racist tone of the top Presidential candidates of the Republican party is essentially the tone of the Confederacy.


In another way, If you think of the Confederacy from an economic standpoint....Slavery is the ultimate aim
of capitalism.....it is the lowest possible wage with all profits going to the "CEO".


"

spooky3

(34,455 posts)
11. 538 is predicting HC wins in MI, IL, OH, NC, & FL. And these are purple-to-blue states.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:31 AM
Mar 2016

Virginia is hardly like places like Alabama. NoVA and Charlottesville (U of VA) are not "old south" at all and the other metro areas generally are blue--with non-Latino white voters as well as members of other groups.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/michigan-democratic/

spooky3

(34,455 posts)
19. 538 was dead on in other recent predictions. I guess we'll soon see whether it is right
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:34 AM
Mar 2016

about these 5 states.

spooky3

(34,455 posts)
65. No, it didn't. It gave her only a 51% chance of winning.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 02:15 AM
Mar 2016

They were not predicting what percent of the vote each candidate would get (see the 538 website for details). They were calculating the odds of winning, and 51% is as close to not winning at it could possibly be. That is the nature of statistics.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
93. It wasn't 51% until Super Tuesday.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 04:38 AM
Mar 2016

It was 78% for Clinton all the way up until the very last day or two.

And Sanders ended up, not squeaking out a win but, winning the state by more than 10%.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
20. NC and FL are confederate states , although I give Bernie a shot at NC.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:35 AM
Mar 2016

MI, IL, OH.....we will see how those states go.

spooky3

(34,455 posts)
23. I would put my money on 538 for them.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:38 AM
Mar 2016

Sanders so far has won only where the percentage of non-Latino white voters is very high - and Clinton is still winning considerable %s of these voters in most states.

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
15. She does have an issue with actual Blue states thus far...
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:33 AM
Mar 2016

...and why none of her supporters seem to think that is a problem is beyond me.

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
30. By 1.8% and dropping. Care to look at Bernie's margins in other Blue states?
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:42 AM
Mar 2016

Hint, about +20% over Hillary.

Tanuki

(14,918 posts)
104. American Samoa, too! Who knew it was part of the Confederacy?
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:42 AM
Mar 2016

The things you learn on DU these days!

consciouslocs

(43 posts)
129. In so many words, that's what she's saying.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:49 AM
Mar 2016

And the votes of the POC in the Southern States do not matter either.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
26. Narrow victories won't clinch the nomination...this will drag out....
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:41 AM
Mar 2016

Hillary is already resorting to getting donations from NRA lobbyists.

She won't be able to compete without more donations from Billionaires to her SuperPAC.

It costs money to run a 50 state campaign, and her sources are drying up.

onenote

(42,703 posts)
18. If I recall correctly, in 2008 Clinton had pretty big wins in New York and California, but Obama had
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:34 AM
Mar 2016

no difficulty winning those states in the General.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
71. they aren't saying that the results foretell the result, they are just saying that Democrats can't..
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 02:28 AM
Mar 2016

win southern states in the GE.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
39. He does....4 solid wins and a stalemate.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:48 AM
Mar 2016

The future primaries and caucuses favor Bernie more and more and his momentum will grow.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
42. Not all states are the same...
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:50 AM
Mar 2016

The four states he won has less population than the state of Texas...

That's like saying four pennies is the same as four dollars, because.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
36. I'm just pointing out the reality of the situation
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:45 AM
Mar 2016

The South is her firewall. I just don't think that she has much else.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
54. I used the word "Confederacy" because it is a coalition of conservative white voters....
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 02:03 AM
Mar 2016

and of black voters.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
70. I'm speaking about a voting "confederacy" unique to the southern states
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 02:24 AM
Mar 2016

Hillary is getting more than just black votes, she is also getting conservative white votes

Tanuki

(14,918 posts)
103. You are mistaken. The "conservative white votes" are going to Trump and Cruz. Clinton is
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:36 AM
Mar 2016

NOT a conservative, nor are her voters, white or black, in the South or anywhere else. Where do people get such an odd notion?

Tanuki

(14,918 posts)
113. I live in Tennessee. I know the difference between a conservative and a liberal. I know
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:11 AM
Mar 2016

many Clinton voters, and not one of them is a conservative. The conservatives I encounter are Republicans or Libertarian, and they often have a visceral dislike for Clinton.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
115. I'm not talking about RW conservatives, I'm talking about conservative Democrats.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:17 AM
Mar 2016

There is a difference.

consciouslocs

(43 posts)
88. Whatever
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:49 AM
Mar 2016

I'm an African American Southerner and not seeing a coalition between conservative white people and AAs. Understand that it might appear that way, but that is not what I am getting from my relatives in SC or Georgia.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
49. IL, MI, OH, NY, NJ, MD, PA, CA and Washington DC.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:56 AM
Mar 2016

Those are all states (plus DC) where Clinton can win, whether by a large margin or not. Not to mention MO, LA, MS, etc. Basically any state with a sizeable percentage of POC.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
84. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking run amok...
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:30 AM
Mar 2016

...but it seems quite a few folks on this site fail to understand basic math, demographics and how the nominating process works. I'm not a Clinton/neoliberal supporter, but reality is reality.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
51. What we learned tonight...Sanders can't get the minority vote.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 02:01 AM
Mar 2016

Without it, it will be impossible for him to win the GE

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
101. I just wonder
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:33 AM
Mar 2016

why all those head-to-head polls say just the opposite, that BERNIE is the most electable and beats ALL of the GOP candidates by large margins and Hillary does not.
I guess all those polls and all those people they have talked to for MONTHS now are all wrong and that you guys know better. Is that it?

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
112. Polls? Last night's "poll" proved that Sanders can't get the minitiy vote
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:07 AM
Mar 2016

Without it, he won't win neither the primary or the GE.

 

Dawgs

(14,755 posts)
184. Are the minorities in South Carolian, Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama all going to move to Ohio?
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 04:18 PM
Mar 2016

Because that's where she will need them in the GE.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
74. No, I'm not....
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 02:41 AM
Mar 2016

I was simply responding to this.....

.Sanders can't get the minority vote. Without it, it will be impossible for him to win the GE


I have no idea how young white "progressive" voters feel, since I am neither young nor white.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
73. so you're saying that if Bernie is the candidate minorities won't vote or will vote Republican?
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 02:34 AM
Mar 2016

news to me

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
111. No, what I'm saying is that minorities will take Hillary to victory both in the primaries and the GE
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:05 AM
Mar 2016
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
121. So you're saying that if HRC is the candidate progressives won't vote or will vote Republican?
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:27 AM
Mar 2016

Oh wait ... That question has already been answered!

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
170. 2008 is not 2016
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:16 PM
Mar 2016

I go with what I'm hearing/seeing on the ground and Latinos are NOT liking the Hills here in the San Joaquin Valley. It's a new day.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
172. One more time.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:21 PM
Mar 2016

I'm telling you what I am hearing/seeing on the ground here in the San Joaquin Valley. Don't count yer chickens is all I'm saying.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
173. OK, so your friends wont vote for her. She has won the Latino vote in seven states. How is that
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:26 PM
Mar 2016

"counting yer chickens"? In any case, you are the one doing that, saying that the minuscule sample of what you see around you, has more weight than the actual results from several states, plus the nationwide Univision poll

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
154. Because Southern blacks are exactly the same as every other minority group.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:39 PM
Mar 2016

Last edited Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:10 PM - Edit history (1)

When 538 forgets to include the word "latino" in their article claiming Clinton's gonna win, you realize their analysis is a tad shallow.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
167. And Sanders crushed her with the black vote in VT and NH
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:11 PM
Mar 2016

So clearly Sanders will win all blacks, right?

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
52. We stand in the presence of greatness.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 02:02 AM
Mar 2016

I no longer thing DWS is an incompetent , backstabbing, third way lackey of the Establishment controlled by the Clinton Machine to sway the election to HRC at all costs.

She is the greatest sleeper agent/political suicide bomber/ Toxic adviser in the history of republican/ Carl Rovian tricks. She has bamboozled an organization, lead by someone twisted and vain enough to dodge FOIA requests with a private server and 2+ cloud backups as though there was no concern to web security (despite detailed knowledge of our own internet spying), to trust her with leadership.
DWS has cost us 900+ elected offices. You cannot be dumb enough to do that by accident and still remember to wear pants everyday. It had to be deliberate.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
155. You miss the point completely
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:41 PM
Mar 2016

the only thing that matters is the delegate count. And Bernie got his ass handed him in that regard.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
158. But not more that Hillary
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:50 PM
Mar 2016

he needs blow out wins to catch up. He doesn't have the support to pull that off.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
161. I can read the polls. I can also see how different demographics are voting
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 01:06 PM
Mar 2016

the trend in both is not favorable to Bernie.

fierywoman

(7,683 posts)
75. negatives
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:01 AM
Mar 2016

Hill's negatives are too high to win the general... as are Trump's. I'm merely a classical musician, so what do I know? but I think her negatives are already bringing down her numbers from previous elections she's run in.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
76. You should probably look at African-American populations in the South vs other primary states so far
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:06 AM
Mar 2016

that's where a substantial amount of Clinton's support in the South has come from, and it's one of the key constituencies for a Democratic candidate in a general election; dismissing the results as "the Confederacy" is kind of ignorant of political and demographic realities.

consciouslocs

(43 posts)
92. Yes
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 04:22 AM
Mar 2016

Notwithstanding the "Confederacy" discussion, whoever ultimately wins the nomination will look for high turnout among key, reliable constituencies in the swing States to win. I think with AA demographic shifts back South, these trends could offer insight into voting that will occur in other regions.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
156. Uh, no.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:42 PM
Mar 2016
that's where a substantial amount of Clinton's support in the South has come from, and it's one of the key constituencies for a Democratic candidate in a general election

Uh, no.

The electoral college means Southern blacks can not win the general election for Clinton. Their votes will not result in Democratic electors.

Now, if you were trying to claim Southern blacks are the same as every other minority group, you should probably travel a bit more.
 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
185. I'm addresssing the "Confederacy" idiocy
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:20 PM
Mar 2016

and African-American voters are a key constituency for a Democrat (nationally, not just in the South) who overwhelmingly support Clinton over Sanders. (I'm aware of how the Electoral College works and I am also aware most of the South will never go Democratic in a general election, thanks.)

Rincewind

(1,203 posts)
82. This is incredable news,
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:20 AM
Mar 2016

I never knew Iowa and Massachusetts were part of the Confederacy. By the way, Secretary Clinton is also leading in the polls of the deep Southern state of Illinois.

DemonGoddess

(4,640 posts)
124. OOOOOO!
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:35 AM
Mar 2016

I'm a Southerner and never knew it!

Face it folks. Without minorities, Mr. Sanders is not going to get the nomination. Congratulations on the wins he did get, but you know what? My candidate did better.

To those of you who think because the states she won tend to be Red in GE they don't count? Get over it. Every vote counts. No matter WHERE it is cast.

 

Onlooker

(5,636 posts)
87. You call her black support in the south "the confederacy"?
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:39 AM
Mar 2016

With comments like that you play right into the hands of those who see Sanders as a white candidate from a white state who apparently speaks only to white voters.

consciouslocs

(43 posts)
90. Not Really the vibe I'm getting from SEN Sanders, but...
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 04:04 AM
Mar 2016

It has been eye-opening, this election cycle, to see how readily some are willing to write off or devalue the votes of a significant portion of the DEM base over the candidate they chose.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
136. no, I'm talking about her combination of black support along with conservative white support
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:51 AM
Mar 2016

within the former Confederate states.

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(107,988 posts)
89. What I learned tonight from this thread
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:49 AM
Mar 2016

The south and the 538 blog joined many others that have been thrown under the Bernie bus.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
97. Another point, Bernie keeps rising in the polls as Hillary slowly declines.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:20 AM
Mar 2016

Just a matter of time . . . .

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
117. Not at all....Hillary would be toast without votes of POC.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:20 AM
Mar 2016

Also, she is getting much more than just votes of POC in the south.

My point is that Hillary is strong ONLY in the south.

Cobalt Violet

(9,905 posts)
125. yeah plus they cheated in MA
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:42 AM
Mar 2016

Shutting down polls is cheating. The lazy leisure class may not get it that working people are so busy that that might have been the only time those voters could vote. It's cheating.

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
128. one ome despicable attempt to marginalize what is essentially a base of black voters
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:46 AM
Mar 2016

...we hear you Sanders folks.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
134. not at all......I'm just showing the flip side of the equation
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:09 AM
Mar 2016

Hillary supporters have been chanting for months that Bernie can't win the votes of POC.
That is the despicable thing.

Whenever Bernie does, as he did in NH....it is discounted.

I was drawn to Bernie as much for his personal history as his policies. The policies that
Hillary has actively supported have damaged us all, but particularly the black community.

But I have accepted the fact that, Hillary, who used dog-whistle racism in 2008 against Barack Obama,
is the choice of black voters in the south. I had a real problem with it, and I have never forgiven her
for it. Some black people are still angry about it, but apparently
most black people in the south don't have a problem with it.

I am forced to accept that reality. I also accept the fact that southern white Democrats, who are more
conservative, also are far more likely to support Hillary. Hence, the power of the Southern firewall.

I don't believe that either element of Hillary's firewall exist outside of the south.




AgadorSparticus

(7,963 posts)
133. I see that too. I think the race will pick up for Sanders here on out.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:02 AM
Mar 2016

...our at least I am hoping it will. But I am not so sure now because of the Latino and Asian votes.

brooklynite

(94,572 posts)
148. I find "anything can happen" a fairly lightweight answer...
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:06 PM
Mar 2016

We have her record of winning Ohio and Michigan from 2008 (IL was Obama's home State; Chicago demographics suggest she'll pick it up)

We have current polling that has her up 15-20 pts.

We have turnout data that shows the "millions of disaffected voters" aren't turning out for Sanders.

I feel comfortable making an prediction that Clinton will pick up all of the large Primary States in the next two weeks.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
151. Bernie has to make the case in those states
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:15 PM
Mar 2016

I am not omniscient, so I can't predict. Sometimes polls are right, and sometimes they are wrong.

The "millions of disaffected voters" reference has to do with the GE. Bernie has to go to all 50 states and spread his message. Then we will see if he has been able to do that.

book_worm

(15,951 posts)
143. And Bernie still can't win minority votes only white voters like him
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:59 AM
Mar 2016

why is that?

We'll see in the next few weeks what her margins will be in Michigan, Illinois & Ohio.

Protalker

(418 posts)
152. platitudes
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:32 PM
Mar 2016

Chris Matthews interview with Bernie was very instructive. Matthews tried several times to give him names. In the House and Senate who would push his agenda. Bernie's response was a macro the people will see to it. Youth want macro and people who pay taxes and live on family budgets want names of people who will make it happen.

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