2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumeven if delegates eventually "add up" for hillary, bernie must stay until the convention:here's why
there is no doubt, and it's clearly obvious, that the powers that be are trying to force bernie out after super Tuesday. There are two reasons for this. One is because after Tuesday the states look more favorable to Bernie. The other reason is because of the convention. If Hillary ends up with any legal troubles, and it looks increasingly likely that she will, Bernie must be at the convention with his delegates to be there so that they can nominate him. Establishment is playing a giant game of "blink" right now. They think if they force bernie out before the convention, they will be free to nominate somebody else if and when Hillary has to step aside. Bernie is smart enough to know this and is not gonna give up all of his hard work for one of their establishment cronies. So until these words are uttered by Debbie Wasserman Schultz,
"the democratic party nominates hillary clinton for president of the united states"
bernie must stay at the convention and not concede, no matter what the delegate count is.
the estsblishment will not win this cycle. bernie or trump. their choice, because gods know, we are doing all we can to get the best person in.
#dontconcedebernie
onecaliberal
(33,037 posts)tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)^ this ^
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Inspired an avatar change in me.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)with donations to match!
72DejaVu
(1,545 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)but if it was in vegas, then yeah, buffets all around....
72DejaVu
(1,545 posts)Buffets everywhere!
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)krawhitham
(4,651 posts)Unless Bernie can keep it close before the convention
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)gifting hillarys delegates to someone who didnt even run.
they will guarantee a loss and the destruction of the party.
roody
(10,849 posts)He is Bernie!
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)In it to win it or until the end...hopefully both. Tortoise and the Hare. Bernie is not going anywhere.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Because donations will dry up. Just like every other primary cycle that ever was. It's just that simple.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)he doesn't have to worry about "drying up" as long as the people are with him.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)He did it to try to get momentum by winning IA and NV. Except it didn't work. I know his supporters hate to realize it, but it takes money to win elections.
Did you know that $17 million of the $75 million that has been donated to him came from people without a job? That's not sustainable. Sorry.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)they may have other income or other sustenance. although if true, it speaks to the power of his message.
actually, you just made the case for publicly funded elections beautifully!
i don't know how you feel about publicly funded elections, but that was a great point!
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Just like the vast majority of Dems would. But I'm not going to criticize Dem candidates for working under the system we have in place. We'll never get it changed if we don't win due to being outspent.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)another weird wild way this election is totally wacked.
glad we agree on publicly funded elections, though
and no, i am not advocating for trump. just pointing out the unconventional features of his candidacy
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Hopefully we will all come together at the end of this given the fact that most of us DO agree on the vast majority of issues.
This primary is about pragmatism versus idealism. The candidates and the Dem voters agree on most issues. IMO.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)and i am not trying to trash obama, but he campaigned as an idealist and governed as a pragmatic centrist. that disappointed a lot of people. and many of them are ready for some high reaching ideals instead of what they see as more compromise with the status quo.
will be interesting to see how it all shakes out
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I actually felt he was promising too much, and that he was doing it because he might not have really understood the challenges he would face once president. I didn't think he was bullshitting people - just a bit naïve. Which I understood since he didn't a ton of experience in politics on a federal level. (I was a Clinton supporter for that reason, but happy to get on board with him when he won the nom).
But you have to admit, he wasn't promising near as much as Bernie. 2008 was my son's first election, and he was brought up in a very politically informed family so he was psyched to finally be allowed to be part of the electoral process.
And then he was hugely disappointed when the reality of governing set in for Obama. He didn't understand why Obama couldn't just make it all happen. Kids are like that. Idealistic. And dog bless them for that. Some of us never grow out of it, and we need them too.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)"I actually felt he was promising too much, and that he was doing it because he might not have really understood the challenges he would face once president. I didn't think he was bullshitting people - just a bit naïve."
i can totally see that. i mean, he was a community organizer for cripe sake, he wanted to help people and was clearly not into this for personal gain, at least in the corporate sense. but somewhere along the way, something happened. the biggest disappoint for me is his rabid support for tpp, which even trump and cruz are against. when top r and d candidates agree on something, i gotta wonder how bad this thing really is.....
but yes, your original analysis of obama makes a lot of sense. i think it gets us back to the tough issue of campaign finance reform. when we get the lobbyists and special interests out of the sphere of influence, we can really get to work
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)We're talking about people throwing in $5 or $10 when they can spare it. It's a sacrifice all the same, but because there's so many people doing it there is no expiry date as long as people want him to continue.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)he has an unlimited supply of $27 donations. And people without work? Well, they have spouses, unemployment et al who can spare an extra $27 here and there. They are the ones who need him the most. Bernie asks for donations for free...on debate stages, and millions flow in. It's HRC that is having to make the frequent trips to the Gold Vault.
A lot of people like me put our small contributions on auto-withdraw...in our budgets...and every month I look at that withdrawal with pride.
I think it may be just the opposite, as HRC continues to drop as she does not have upward momentum, but is relying on the establishment, large donors may experience the all-too-reminiscent Clinton Fatigue.
roody
(10,849 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)PonyUp
(1,680 posts)DAMANgoldberg
(1,278 posts)Some of the same issues he raised in 2008 are still around her neck today. He was right then, and if he was allowed to speak on this, would be right again in 2016.
TPTB & DWS secretly want Joe Biden to be in the race, and if Bernie leaves, they may get their wish. That would amount to President Donald Trump and Vice President Ted Cruz.
I like VP Joe Biden and would have supported him over Hilary, but he made the decision not to run, so it wouldn't be fair to "just show up" after the campaign season. I would also say that if Sen Elizabeth Warren, who I would adore, did the same thing.
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)onecaliberal
(33,037 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Even if he won it would only be by a small margin. That won't make up for the Clinton blow outs that are coming in delegate rich states like Texas, Florida, and New York.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)He was only 20 behind a month ago and the polls have moved in his favor since then.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)People like to vote for a winner. That's what momentum is all about.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)She'll be leading but not by anything like the numbers you folks in the Clinton camp have managed to convince yourselves of.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I can understand that.
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)As I think you are going to find out over the next few weeks.
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)... on election day in November, rather than vote for someone who can shamelessly lie, then we could wind up with President Trump.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)I am a Hillary supporter but we need him and his message and his supporters.
thesquanderer
(12,008 posts)...even if the candidate himself has "suspended" his campaign.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Not possible. Sorry. That only works with three or more at convention time.
thesquanderer
(12,008 posts)My point was, Sanders does not have to "stay in the race" in order to have his delegates "show up" on his behalf at the convention. They will show up and vote for him no matter what.
The OP is putting forth a premise that Hillary might step aside at some point due to legal problems; and seems to be worrying that if Bernie steps out before that point, he will lose his delegate representation at the convention, but AFAIK, those delegates would show up and vote for him regardless.
That said, the more delegates he has amassed (in this unlikely scenario), the better.
For example, let's say that Hillary suspends her campaign before she has amassed enough pledged delegates to capture the nomination, and Biden steps in. If Sanders had already stopped campaigning and essentially conceded that many more delegates to Clinton, he will be in a weaker position than if he had continued to amass delegates of his own.
So here's the reason I put the word "basically" in the subject line. In this case, you could end up with a floor fight with only two "active" candidates (Sanders, Biden)... because there is a third candidate (Clinton) who may hold a significant number of delegates, even if she is no longer campaigning and not prepared to accept the nomination. (And no, I don't think this will happen.)
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I don't think there is any chance Clinton will step aside for "legal problems" but I apologize for misreading your previous comment. You are correct about his delegates.
wyldwolf
(43,874 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)wyldwolf
(43,874 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)he in till the convention.
wyldwolf
(43,874 posts)Bookmarking this for later - may two weeks or so from now.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)wyldwolf
(43,874 posts)Not only are we going to New Hampshire ... we're going to South Carolina and Oklahoma and Arizona and North Dakota and New Mexico, and we're going to California and Texas and New York. And we're going to South Dakota and Oregon and Washington and Michigan. And then we're going to Washington, D.C. To take back the White House. Yeah! - Howard Dean
Three weeks later, he dropped out of his race. Several weeks later, he endorsed John Kerry.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23587-2004Mar25_2.html
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)clearly, he is NOT like bernie, thank gods...
wyldwolf
(43,874 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)his word, unlike bernies, can not be trusted.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Lots of candidates say they are in until the convention. Then sanity prevails, and wanting to maintain their image.
Sanders will want leverage with the party, and won't piss it away by staying in if winning becomes mathematically impossible.
However, unlike some of my fellow Clinton supporters I don't think that tipping point is going to be reached in the next two weeks. We'll see.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)the whole theory about whether he stays or not might be moot, because i believe after tuesday it will become a long and close race, probably right up until the convention.
think
(11,641 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)wyldwolf
(43,874 posts)Not only are we going to New Hampshire ... we're going to South Carolina and Oklahoma and Arizona and North Dakota and New Mexico, and we're going to California and Texas and New York. And we're going to South Dakota and Oregon and Washington and Michigan. And then we're going to Washington, D.C. To take back the White House. Yeah! - Howard Dean
Three weeks later, he dropped out of his race. Several weeks later, he endorsed John Kerry.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23587-2004Mar25_2.html
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)It's what candidates do.
think
(11,641 posts)peace13
(11,076 posts)You may be right. Is it possible or probable. It's any woman's guess.
tazkcmo
(7,310 posts)Not sprint.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)cuz the tortoise will catch up in the later states..
dinkytron
(568 posts)OhZone
(3,212 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)The "we, the people" stuff irritates me a bit because the polls show we, the people are pretty much behind Clinton. But to some Bernie fans we apparently aren't people.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)Which polls would those be? There are polls that have shown Sanders leading among democrats, Nation-wide. There are polls that have shown him handily defeating all of the republican candidates. To some Clinton fans, we apparently aren't people.
mythology
(9,527 posts)Also general election polls during the primaries are pretty much useless.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...but even if Hillary Clinton wins every remaining primary-and-caucus in a landslide, I'm confident that Sanders will stay in to speak out about the policies which would help the American people.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)such as O'Malley, if Hillary is out of the race does not mean he will get all of the delegates.
w4rma
(31,700 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)w4rma
(31,700 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)mean I want the most qualified candidate running for president to be our next president.
w4rma
(31,700 posts)FEBRUARY 18, 2016: The latest Quinnipiac Poll of national voters shows that Bernie Sanders performs MUCH better than Hillary Clinton against potential GOP opponents.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/2/20/1488200/-LATEST-POLL-Bernie-Sanders-is-MUCH-more-electable-than-Hillary-Clinton
But, I was talking about your support of authoritarianism by simply replacing Clinton with a candidate who didn't run and isn't supported by the primary voters.
The neoliberals are afraid of another FDR.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)w4rma
(31,700 posts)You need to understand that if you are too heavy handed with the anti-authoritarian wing of the Democratic Party, we'll revolt. Even if it means mutually assured political destruction.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Me in the least. Why do you think Sanders should get the nomination without the required number of delegates?
w4rma
(31,700 posts)It's clear that this race is going until the convention. And it's clear that it's going to be fairly close, in the end. There won't be a whole lot of delegates separating Sanders and Clinton in the end.
Sanders would only need a small number of them to have the required majority number if Clinton squeaks out a win, which I don't think that she will.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)w4rma
(31,700 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)brentspeak
(18,290 posts)1) Hillary will run of money; Bernie won't
2) The email scandal won't go away
3) The #whichhillary protests may have appeared too late to hurt HRC in South Carolina, but it will dent her approval among minorities in the months to come, count on it.
4) Bernie is quite used to long distance contests. If he chose to stay in the race, he would remain competitive up to the very end.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)made a commitment to give Sanders a prime time slot.
WTF
Mister Ed
(5,962 posts)Sanders is working hard to bend the USA away from the oligarchy it has become, and back toward democracy. I, personally, believe that goal is what has been driving him all this time.
To accomplish that goal, he and his supporters must press the Democratic Party to return to its populist roots. That pressure must continue all the way to the convention, and far beyond.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)erlewyne
(1,115 posts)when I walk down the Railroad tracks to the polls.
I will vote for Bernie. I could take the sidewalk but the
tracks are more fun. We vote at the fire station across
from the rural water pumps.
Thanks so much Bernie!!!
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)Senator Sanders speaks for me. He will need funding to keep up the fight.
me too
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Do what Al Gore was not man enough to do.
Fight to the end. Make them tear it from your hands if it is to be so.
Make a mark for history, as Gore should have done.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)She will peel of Bernie supporters by the bunches. If past is prologue, voters start jumping onto the ship of the winning candidate. It will accelerate exponentially.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)He will know when to drop out, or stay till the end, it's all his choice. Bernie has done wonders for this race, and no matter what happens, no matter who wins the nomination, he has helped to put some great ideas on the table. His revolution does not end as long as those who "really" support his ideas and want to see things change, continue to get out and make sure more candidates at local, and state levels get put into office who will keep on making the right changes in order to get real change in this country.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)Say maybe win 1/2 as many delegates as the other?
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)but if she has to step down, bernie will still have way more delegstes than biden or anyone else, who didn't run and will have zero delegates. bernie will have to the the nom.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Abandoning liberals and progressives in favor of the military, industrials, and Wall Street.
dcbuckeye
(80 posts)You said it looks "increasingly likely" that Hillary will face legal troubles. Do you have some inside knowledge that the rest of us don't have?
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)no insider anything. just keeping up with the latest
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)hopefully it won't be like an ant under a magnifying glass
andrewv1
(168 posts)went Democratic in the GE.
Ccarmona
(1,180 posts)The MSM is so in the bag for HRC, they're trying all they can to diminish Bernie's candidacy. They only can handle one horse race, and they want it to be on the Repub side. And, it's what their corporate masters want. That said, Bernie needs to stay in the race so he forces sellout DWS to give home a prominent speaking spot at the Convention and help shape the Party's platform.
andrewv1
(168 posts)In terms of how he has been screwed by the Democratic Establishment, I wouldn't wait around...
If it's not him, then another Progressive can step up for the Progressive base & independents & they would have a good chance to win; Especially with the probability of another right-wing conservative getting in the race splitting up the vote.
They would have until May to get on the ballot in every state, & who want's to bet on Hillary with a possible indictment & unfavorable rating & whatever negative baggage she "acquires" by that time?
Hillary will have a tough time winning the General Election unless she "rigs it" or the Rethug Candidate completely explodes.
rock
(13,218 posts)Best illustrated by a joke:
Bob stopped by Pete's the other day and Pete greeted him at the door dressed in nothing but a top hat. Bob, though surprised, came on in.
"Why aren't you wearing anything?"
"Nobody ever calls, except you."
"Why are you wearing a top hat?"
"Somebody might!"
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)CentralMass
(15,265 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)azmom
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