Shocked at shallowness of Hillary supporters

[pdsimdars]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Goblinmonger (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).

I have been reading some threads by Hillary supporters. There is much talk about sending a message to their daughters, that girls can do anything. Now, that's is a nice message. But the way their talk is, it's about "vote for the girl."
I'd vote for Elizabeth Warren in a heartbeat. Same as I'd vote for Sanders. Let me spell it out for you . . these 2 people are of different genders. That means, I don't base my support on GENDER, but on issues, on being on the right side of history consistently.
In these threads there was little talk about how they differed on issues.
I think the message they are sending to their daughters is a very shallow, superficial, uninformed one. . . vote for the gender, who cares about their history on the issues.
I think it'd be much better to discuss what they are saying and where they stand and where they have stood. Leave the sex out of it.
I didn't vote for Obama because he was black, it was because what he said on the issues. It was frosting that he could make history, but frosting without the cake just makes you sick.

[Jenny_92808]

1. Well said

We need Bernie!

[pacalo]

2. I'm a woman & I vote for whom I think is best.

[litlbilly]

3. shallow isnt the word i would use

[Nite Owl]

4. Great way to put it

The thing is they don't seem to care about the important things like policy or integrity. Exactly what kind of message does that send? 'Girls can do anything' but a girl who gets there acting just like a man isn't going to make the changes that we would expect a woman in at the very top of our country and the world to do. Things like peace and compassion, honesty and integrity.

[Lorien]

5. As a lifelong feminist I can't tell you have disgusted I am by the "vote for

Hillary because she's a woman" nonsense I've seen from her supporters all along. For decades we feminists have been saying that gender should not ENTITLE a person to a job when someone of a different gender may be more qualified. That hiring preferences based on gender are shallow and immoral. So now they want to "set an example" for their daughters by voting for someone BECAUSE of her gender. How is this any different than choosing a less qualified man for a job simply because he has the favored genitalia over a more qualified female applicant? This is *exactly* what we've always been fighting, all the while saying that feminism isn't about hating men. But geez, voting for Hillary, a hand puppet for the 0.01% who wants a war with Iran and loves fracking, over Bernie, the most decent and honorable candidate that we've had a chance to vote for in generations, who will do everything in his power to get money out of politics, un-rig the system, fight for medicare for all, renewable energy, affordable tuition, rein in Wall st., etc. etc.-and he polls far better than Hillary and has a much longer list of achievements in office than she does....how is that not flat out misandry? It makes no sense whatsoever, and cheapens a struggle that's been fought for over a hundred years. I've lost faith in the party completely, and I couldn't imagine saying that just a few years ago. The hypocrisy in it's supporters is mind boggling.

[loyalsister]

10. Same here

Hillary sold out the sisterhood to get where she is.
She willfully participated in misogyny when she trashed the women her husband exploited. Then, she helped destroy the economic security of thousands of women (and children) when she supported the policy that put so many at a disadvantage when men were removed from providing any economic support via incarceration. To make their lives more difficult, she advocated welfare reform.

Now we hear that she would be willing to compromise on abortion.

I hope she loses this election and fades from the public stage and consciousness of young girls and women who look forward to the day when they can vote for a woman of integrity. One who does not stomp on less privileged women to satisfy her own ambitions.

[cui bono]

18. Agreed.

And a supposed staunch feminist on here said that getting a woman elected was enough change to the status quo. Talk about clueless.

.

[JoeyT]

26. I don't get how it's supposed to be feminist to vote for Hillary anyway.

If she were guaranteed to win the election by supporting a complete ban on abortion, she'd do it in a heartbeat.

Hillary is out for Hillary.

[farmboy]

6. Sterotype alot? It shows. I think I smell something berning you up inside.

I wish I could say I was surprised by the ridiculous judgement shown by the op and many in this thread, but I am not. You don't know a thing about me to call me shallow because I support Hillary Clinton. You are just being rude. And you do nothing positive for Senator Sanders' candidacy. I actually expect, from what I have seen and know of him, he would say the same about your attempted tarnishing of Clinton supporters as you have.

I am excited as hell that Hillary Clinton might be our first female president of the USA! I can see the excitement in the faces of my mom and sisters at times. But I, and they, would no more vote for Secretary Clinton just because she is a woman than I would have Sarah Palin (never!) The fact that the person who is running for president that WILL BE THE BEST PRESIDENT for this country happens to be a woman is so awesome that I smile every time I think about it.

Stop hurting your own candidate's chances (unless you think he has none now) by throwing mud at his opponent and opponent's backers. It is called bullying and it is ugly.

[cui bono]

15. Spare us the hyperbole. You must not have read much on here.

The bullying is not on this side.

If you can find OPs by Hillary supporters where they are actually discussing the merits of her policy stances please post links. It's not Bernie supporters who are attempting to tarnish a candidate's stellar record on civil rights activism. It's not Bernie supporters who are running with false statements well after they are debunked in an effort to paint his supporters as racist. It's not Bernie supporters who are using several serious issues as political footballs. And it wasn't a Bernie supporter who said that getting a woman into the White House was enough change to the status quo. No, that was a supposed staunch feminist on here.

.

[cascadiance]

7. Yep, note how so little is made about Bernie being a person of Jewish faith...

... and the precedents that that is setting in this election.

His win in New Hampshire was the first time a non-Christian won a primary like that, but we didn't really celebrate that as if that were the only thing to celebrate. What's more important is what Bernie as a person stands for in terms of what he wants to do for us who he represents. If you had someone of Jewish faith that had more of a personality like Netanyahu, most there would tell him to take a hike, wether or not he was an American citizen.

Again, it is not the identity of who we are voting for, but what they want to do for us in office that counts! That's why so many of us are behind him including an endorsement from a Muslim congressman in Keith Ellison too (who I would also vote for as a person who represents my interests, not because he's a Muslim).

[djean111]

38. But a Hillary support in Nevada cared enough to say a reason to not vote for Bernie

is because he is a "Socialist Jew".

Hillary is for war and fracking and the TPP and cluster bombs and increased H-1B visas, and against Single Payer. Her gender is irrelevant; so are her endorsements. Why those things would override the issues is beyond me.

[Onlooker]

8. You don't get it

The fact that we have never had a woman president is not some remarkable coincidence. There are deeper problems involved here. The ridiculously harsh assessment of Hillary by many Sanders supporters is nothing but ingrained sexism. The suggestion that Hillary can't think for herself, is run by the male dominated Wall Street, is a chronic liar, cackles, screams (as if Sanders doesn't), is guilty because of Lewinsky, and so on are subtle forms of sexism. The ludicrously harsh assessment of her since the 1990s is a form of sexism. The pressures on a woman to be "tough" are as a great as the pressures on Obama never to be the "angry black man." A woman politician faces a different standard. Defeating barriers to women getting ahead is a critical part of the liberal agenda.

Now, I support Sanders because he has really made no mistakes (though, like Hillary's, certainly his admirers have), but to suggest that those who support Hillary because of her gender are shallow is just plain ignorant. It's the kind of ignorance that perhaps makes many Sanders supporters dumbfounded that so many people of color and gays support Hillary. Politically, Hillary is no reactionary. She's quite liberal. Her general liberalism, though not as great as Sanders, + her experience (which if she was a man would be considered impressive) + her gender make her just about as worthy for the office as Sanders.

Look at these two links -- there are many more like them, that show that we do not have equality.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/findthebest-/here-are-the-youngest-mem_b_6847866.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jjcolao/2013/02/06/americas-most-promising-ceos-under-35/#3170663b1040

[cascadiance]

35. Many of us like me have Elizabeth Warren images in our sig, and would vote for her in a minute...

I think it is a bit heavy to criticize so many of us as being sexist, when many of those people would support Warren, even if they criticize Clinton at times. It's not that Clinton is a woman that most of us have issues with. It is that she doesn't appeal to us on issues the way Warren has that is the issue for us!

Yes, Hillary has had a lot of experience, and in another time, that might be a great reason to focus on her as the candidate of choice. But we are living in a time where so much of our system is broken, and broken at the core. So many of us now are seriously fed up with a system that no longer works for us, and in fact works against us, and it is a situation where both parties are broken, and both parties are facing populist revolts because the masses are so fed up now that it is harder to keep us divided any more on a left/right basis the way the PTB have done so long, to avoid their policies of screwing the masses for the elites from getting much scrutiny.

"Experience" in that system isn't looked at as much of a plus by itself any more, as it is more of a measure if you are a big part of the current problems that afflict us, rather than a part of a system that in other times people might have been proud of for what it was doing for the masses.

That is why this time around, you have to go beyond just "I'm the most experienced candidate" and also make a good case why you are the best person to change the system and fix the broken state it has evolved in to. That is what is getting both Sanders and Trump as "outsiders" more attention as people that are working "outside" the system to try and fix it. I feel like many here of course that Bernie is far more of a real change person for the better than Trump, but that doesn't stop the mind set that is also the way that the Republicans are feeling that change is needed.

Obama ran on "Hope and Change" last election, and many voted him in as a way to "change" things for the better, but feel that after he got elected, that many of those hints of change didn't happen, and were disappointed from those promises not fulfilled. Many feel they need to be more demanding this time around to hear more detail of what ways a candidate will change our system for the better. It is not enough just to say you will "renegotiate NAFTA". You need to show a track record of working against the TPP in the way free trade agreements have been done since the Nixon years that has messed up a lot, and show in more detail (not hiding them the way Obama's administration has) of what you propose as a newer system of trade.

[Onlooker]

44. I was responding to the accusation of shallowness

I basically agree with everything you wrote. My point is simply that there are good, progressive reasons to support Hillary. There were good progressive reasons to support Obama over Edwards in 2008, even though Edwards in many ways had the more progressive agenda.

[kcr]

46. And if and when that happens, it will be fun times when you're accused of voting with your uterus

Because it would happen. Bernie supporters who do this really need to knock it off.

[Fuddnik]

11. We need Democratic candidates with good judgement, something Clinton sorely lacks.

Comparing Sanders to Joe McCarthy and Nixon?

I'm really shocked by the ignorance of the Hilbillies.

[cui bono]

16. You lost the argument about shallowness as soon as you used the slur "Berniebros".

[Betty Karlson]

22. And that was just the start of trouble for this post:

On Mon Feb 22, 2016, 03:34 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

I'm shocked at the shallowness of the Berniebros

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Can we please stop with the berniebros bullshit already? Do we need to continue down this road? Can we please stop this?

JURY RESULTS

The review was completed at Mon Feb 22, 2016, 03:48 AM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Sexist and denigrating nomer. HIDE
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: As a berniebro i take no offense to this.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

[vdogg]

31. So Clinton supporters are called shallow

And it's A' ok. Bernie supporters are called shallow and it gets a hide? How fucking hypocritical.

[Adrahil]

43. Yup. It's all those Bernie fans concerned about fairness. ;) nt

[Flying Squirrel]

12. My daughter will be voting for Bernie.

If I told her I would be voting for Hillary to send her a message that "girls can do anything", she would be very disappointed in me.

[grossproffit]

13. Selective reading...

and feigned outrage.

[mhatrw]

14. Frosting without the cake just makes you Hillary.

She's a "let them eat cake" neoliberal covered in a brand new coat of "progressive realist" frosting.

[Duppers]

17. My sentiments exactly.

Old female here.

[MisterP]

19. but stewardesses!

[Betty Karlson]

20. Lies, 9/11 and a gender. That's all there is left to comapign on.

Campaigning on Clinton doesn't work. Clearly. It's all about her-her-her, and she is the candidate with the negative coattails who may well lose us the White House, the senate and the house.

[Skittles]

21. shocked at how sickening ALL the fangals and fanboys are

ENOUGH ALREADY

[lbrtbell]

23. I care about what's between a politician's ears, not what's between his/her legs

I mean, Sarah Palin is a woman, but I sure as hell don't agree with her policies. Nor do I agree with Hillary's.

And I say this as a longtime feminist, who has wanted to see a woman president since I was a child in the 1970's.

I've voted for many women, not because of their gender, but their policies. I've voted for many men, for the same reason. (Yes, that includes Bill Clinton--twice. But now I see where he went wrong, and I don't want to go down that road again with Hillary.)

I'm sick of hearing how we should vote for Hillary to "send a message to our daughters". Here's the message I want to send to our daughters: Get Republican Lite out of the Democratic Party, and your future will be much brighter.

[DrBulldog]

24. I've decided to never vote for Hillary because of her corruption and her lies.

If I have to, I will abstain on the Presidential candidates in the general election. I cannot bring myself to vote for any a$$hole.

[wiggs]

25. Amazing. nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

27. I didn't vote for Obama because he was black either....

I voted for him because he was SMART.

[cali]

28. I'm not shocked at all.

[Beacool]

29. Shocked at the endless pointless posts making assumptions about other people.

As much as it seems too hard for some of Sanders' supporters to understand, many of us think that Hillary is the most qualified candidate to be president. The fact that she happens to be a woman is just the cherry on the sundae.

So please, don't insult people's intelligence.

Unbelievable......

[Bohunk68]

36. You are "shocked" at making assumptions,

and then you turn right around and do the same thing in your second sentence. And, accuse other's of insulting intelligence.

[fun n serious]

30. I am voting for Hillary not because she is a woman, that just happens to be a bonus.

I am voting for her because IMHO she is most qualified for the job. I haven't been convinced by Senator Sanders. His ideas do not seem realistic to me. I think President Obama is a great President who honestly tried to work with republicans. They showed us they would rather ruin our country than to compromise. I don't see it much different in a Sanders administration. Even with a democratic congress their will be challenges. I've tried to discuss issues many times it always results in someone saying,"I'm with the party of NO."

[cali]

32. But what wisdom hill fans offer!

[treestar]

33. Baloney we are voting for her due to her experience

her brains, and her education. And we can tell the daughters she is proof girls can do anything. What a crock of a post.

[leftofcool]

34. Is this another thread on the uterus vote?

[MrMickeysMom]

39. It's an anti-sexist to me...

Nobody is going to tell me to vote based on gender.

Comprender?

[Nonhlanhla]

37. Yawn

The 'analysis' of Hillary supporters' motivations in the OP is shallow.

[sufrommich]

40. The hide in this thread is an excellent example of how

the jury system has ruined DU.

[workinclasszero]

41. Its a tyranny by the majority I believe

Got to keep those unfeeling heretical Hillary fans in place.

Gagged or preferably banned from the Bernie Underground.

[Adrahil]

42. This kind of post is guaranteed to snag some support for Bernie!

Ah yes.... brilliant strategy...

[jonjon]

45. Their Gene Pool...

has no DEEP end!

[Goblinmonger]

47. I'm locking.

Thanks.