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[oviedodem]

This message was self-deleted by its author (oviedodem) on Tue Oct 9, 2012, 05:32 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[mikeysnot]

1. good luck with this.

[budkin]

2. CROFL... this better be sarcastic

Has to be

[oviedodem]

6. Nope. I truly don't like what I see and hear.

[brush]

58. Wrong site

This crap doesn't work on this site. No low info voters here. Try somewhere else and better luck next time.

[Panasonic]

115. Wait a minute. Oviedo Dem?

Douglas Kaplan, is that you?

The CEO of Gravis Marketing is Douglas Kaplan, of Oviedo, Florida. ... KAPLAN, DOUGLAS OVIEDO, FL 32765 $300 08/21/2002 NATIONAL ...

[grasswire]

151. hahahahaha!

BINGO!

Excellent work.

Did you alert the MIRT team?

[Indpndnt]

155. Well, I'll be.

Somebody is still mad that his bogus polling was outed here at DU.

Nice job, Panasonic!

[AverageJoe90]

160. Makes me wonder, too.......nt

[mnhtnbb]

3. Don't be a quitter. The perspective is quite different in other places.

[Kookaburra]

4. You forgot the

[budkin]

5. Don't jump, it's ok!

[Floyd_Gondolli]

41. Actually the OP can go ahead and jump

One less defeatist with no chin in the herd.

[peacebird]

54. But the op needs to send in his absentee ballot for Obama/ Biden first!

[JDPriestly]

7. I can't hardly find a Romney voter in Southern California.

Obama seems stronger than ever.

I went to an event at a university here in an area that normally would have lots of Republicans. The students were coming in steady streams to our Democratic table, but not so much to the Republicans. Haven't seen and won't see any Romney signs in my area.

I see signs for local candidates, but none absolutely none for Romney.

So, it depends on where you live.

[CJCRANE]

8. OVER!!! DID YOU SAY OVER???

[louis-t]

15. "Was it over when Germany bombed Pearl Harbor?"

[Johnny Noshoes]

61. It ain't over until we say its over.

nt.

[Ecumenist]

67. Louis T., uh baby, Germany DIDN'T bomb Pearl Harbor, JAPAN did... and NOPE it wasn't over

not by a long ass shot!!

[FBaggins]

77. Ecumenist, uh baby, I think you missed the reference.

[Ecumenist]

109. FBaggins, don't believe I was speaking to you....

Mindya.

[FBaggins]

123. Was Louis T speaking to you?

Or is there a double standard?

[Brother Buzz]

139. Forget it, Ecumenist's rolling

[SidDithers]

141. You win the thread...nt

Sid

[ohheckyeah]

147. Dur n/t

[Th1onein]

113. Uh....you ARE joking, right?

You DO know that Japan, not Germany, bombed Pearl Harbor, right?

[janx]

114. That's a reference to the movie Animal House,

in which a clueless character spouted that line.

[catbyte]

134. oh my, louis t, are these guys too young to remember Bluto's big speech?

May the saints preserve us, lol!

[WorseBeforeBetter]

144. The Romney = Greg Marmalard and/or Doug Neidermeyer threads...

must have been terribly confusing.

[ohheckyeah]

146. Oh sweet Jesus...

I thought EVERYONE knew that line. LOL

[dimbear]

152. As Julius Caesar said to the retreating soldier as he physically spun him around:

"The enemy is over there."

[Drunken Irishman]

9. Huh?

[fleur-de-lisa]

10. I feel pretty optimistic that Barack Obama will win . . .

I don't think the debates matter all that much.

[oviedodem]

13. I did believe that until I realized the electorate is chock full of stupid.

[budkin]

22. This is fallout from the debate performance... it's all starting to rebound now

There is way too much time left... 3 more debates. Obama will win.

[TroyD]

107. There are 2 more Presidential debates - the other is the Vice Presidential n/t

[fleur-de-lisa]

32. If the recent polls are the cause of your concern . . .

just wait a few days. Most of them are bullshit anyway.

And even if you think people are stupid, well, I have to agree with you there, but NOBODY likes rMoney. People will stay home rather than vote for someone they don't like, who, by the way, has stated that he doesn't give a rat's ass about them either.

Of course there are right-wingers who hate Obama, but not enough to win the election. Stealing it is another matter . . .

[NoPasaran]

125. You JUST realized the electorate is chock full of stupid?

New to this planet?

[Scootaloo]

11. Video for you;

[Cali_Democrat]

12. STFU

[oviedodem]

17. I see you really believe in the country with your upside down flag.

[kooljerk666]

39. Up side down flag means "HELP US THINGS A NOT RIGHT!!"

not used too in modern shipping but all u ever wanted to know about flags.......... http://www.fotw.net/flags/xf-flip.html

[NightOwwl]

85. Does this bother you too?

[janx]

88. Good one!

[Skittles]

128. do you understand what an upside-down flag signifies???

GOOGLE AND EDUCATE YOURSELF, PLEASE

[demwing]

18. Agreed

shew...

[MjolnirTime]

16. Are you really this fucking stupid?

[oviedodem]

21. More cursing. Stay classy

[sharp_stick]

35. Ah shucks

and gee whiz opie, what did you expect after that steaming pile of an OP?

[Drunken Irishman]

38. What did you expect?

Jesus Christ. You're either stupid or a troll. You come over here and tell us game over and then get pissed when people call you out on your utter stupidity? I hope this post remains bumped between now and November so that you can own your shame when Obama wins reelection.

[abumbyanyothername]

154. I vote troll.

Perhaps a stupid troll.

[Indpndnt]

157. Perhaps?

The signs are definitely pointing that way.

[MFM008]

19. .......

[LisaL]

20. Are you for real?

[oviedodem]

25. I am dead serious. This county is full of people that vote against themselves always and are

going to do it again. I can see it coming.

[dmallind]

23. You'd have a point - If CF were the nation and signs predicted votes.

Since neither is the case, keep doing what you can, and don't worry yet. Things look fairly good.

[hrmjustin]

24. Thanks for the pick-me -up there my friend.

[elleng]

26. Then shocked you are, and wrong.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021494795

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. Bookmarking

What a hilarious flame out.

[craigmatic]

28. You're forgetting 2 very important facts

Obama is still leading in the electoral college and the good job numbers. Then there's also the fact the mittens hasn't led in the electoral vote all year including now.

[davidpdx]

138. You missed one

Obama is breaking record fundraising. Meanwhile, Mitt the coward has not released his numbers. We all know why, because his numbers sucked.

[d_b]

29. lol

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. Wait...Oviedo? Are you Doug Kaplan????

[dmallind]

49. I missed the Oviedo connection - that's FL 24!

A 60-40 red district or so. That's like someone in Manhattan saying Romney has no chance!

[speedoo]

51. hmmmm. Silence from you-know-who since this post.

You might be on to something!

[faith woos science]

59. Is this Doug's account that he uses to donate to Hillary?

[alcibiades_mystery]

69. Good friend of Doug's are ya?

[oviedodem]

66. not even close

[alcibiades_mystery]

71. Oh wait, I know, Tony Arrigoni!

[GoneOffShore]

172. It is according to Grantcart and others

Just a-posting and spreading fear and dissent.

[sharp_stick]

31. Dude you are fucked in the head

or being sarcastic. I can't tell which on first look... mind numbingly stupid or sarcastic?

[GoneOffShore]

173. Both.

[TexasLeftist]

33. WOW this is so far from over

Democrats need to step back for a second and breathe. Mitt Romney is a HORRIBLE candidate. Lest we forget... he can't even win his HOME STATE. You know the only people that have actually been governed by him. Even after the debate, Obama still leads Mitt Romney by 30 points in Massachusetts. This guy was Governor less than 10 years ago. He says that MA won't support him simply b/c he's a Republican, but if that were the case, why the hell would they elect Scott Brown?

If I were the Obama campaign, I would shift focus to Massachusetts. Ask people what was so horrible about Mitt Romney, and why they would never want him to be President. They already know!!

[Inspired]

34. Go piss in someone else's punchbowl. n/t

[JoePhilly]

37. Translation ... "Stay home Dems, stay home".

Fuck off with this nonsense.

[BlueStreak]

40. Florida should have been an easy win, but the campaign REFUSED to challenge Romney on Medicare

They should have taken an aggressive position, such as this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=90910

Instead, they allowed Romney to run wild with his lies about Obama taking $716B from Medicare. Instead of saying "That's a goddamned lie to take attention away from the fact that your plane ENDS MEDICARE and replaces it with a voucher system,"

their response was more like, "Well, it seems we have a disagreement here. I respectfully suggest that the Governor go check his facts again, but who knows, maybe he is right. I don't want to argue about it. Can't we all just get along?"

[RichGirl]

42. You better forget the election entirely!

I've been looking through my telescope and there appears to be a meteor heading for planet earth. By my calculations, it's heading straight to a college town in central Florida. You've got bigger problems than Romney...so get moving.....

[MANative]

43. If this is "so over"...

why is Obama up over 3 points on InTrade today?

[Floyd_Gondolli]

44. They must not have counted yard signs in FL

[MANative]

46. LOL! No kidding!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

97. They must not have counted yard signs in Oviedo, FL

And Oviedo is not a college town as the original poster claims. It is contiguous to Orlando where my alma mata, the University Of Central Florida, is but it's most definitely not a college town. It's a garden variety suburb that leans Republican.

[ncav53]

45. Stop freaking out

Stop freaking out. Keep your eye on what really matters, the electoral college and the battleground states.

[JNelson6563]

47. lolz Thanks for your concern

Here in the blood red zone of northern Michigan we are kicking ass and taking names. Our Dem office is like a bee hive, swarming with activity. Dem lawn signs everywhere. I personally had been doing the buying of lawnsigns and we've gone through literally thousands of them as well as providing supply for many neighboring counties that are also blood red.

Get your butt off the internet and find a campaign office and you will get a glimpse of reality.

Julie--proud foot soldier in the effort, reporting from the trenches

[simmonsj811]

48. We're doom!

it will never work we gotta get out of here!! from some cartoon in the 70"s sorry pal it not over rommy will not be POTUS!!! IMO

[Cha]

50. Hyperbolic Idiotic Flameout Much?

[janx]

74. This is a classic.

[robertpaulsen]

52. Take a deep breath, count to 10, then click these links.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

That's not the Rasmussen-free link, BTW.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map_no_toss_ups.html

That's current, up-to-the-minute polling there.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

The current numbers as I read them now: President Obama has a 78.4% chance of winning the election, with a 79.1% chance of winning OH and a 96.8% chance of winning PA. Yes, his numbers have dropped since the debate, but Romney is nowhere in the frackin' ballpark of 270 electoral votes by anyone's estimate. As Walter Sobchak would say, "Nothing's fucked here, Dude, nothing is fucked, they're a bunch of fucking amateurs!"

[freshwest]

140. Taking the deep breath and all.. but I still am uncomfortable with that map. Population wise, yes.

Why is the solid blue so small geographically? Oh, wait, that's a rhetorical question, I admit it. I'd like to see a big midwestern state go hard blue.

[Cooley Hurd]

53. Dumbest post of the day...

The President is neither hated, nor losing.

You're new to politics, aren't you?

[faith woos science]

70. Not new to politics,

just polling.

Gravis Marketing is Douglas Kaplan, of Oviedo, Florida

[janx]

78. "Not new to politics just polling."

Oviedodem...

[Caretha]

166. I think you meant to say....

"Not new to politics, just trolling.

[Orangepeel]

99. the day?

was there a dumber post yesterday? I must have missed it.

I wouldn't bother to kick this nonsense thread if it wasn't already at the top.

[ejbr]

55. um....

Obama has been leading in the national polls for 90+ % of the time and you think Florida yard signs and one "lackluster" debate spells his doom?

[brush]

56. You're not fooling anyone

This is the wrong site to post this kind of crap. Not a lot of low info voters here. Try somewhere else.

[War Horse]

72. That was my first instinct as well

too 'scripted'. Dunno.

[vincenzoesq]

57. Mammamia!

What site is this? FreeRepublic? You must have lost your everlovin mind, ovie!

[Ecumenist]

60. Are you high??!! WTF is wrong with you? Thank you for your concern

but somehow I don't feel the 'P.A.N.I.C.K you do... Robme McLiar was lying his ass off to the estent that his OWN CAMPAIGN fact checked him not even 18 hours later. Back the fuck up, Barack's got this!!

[lillypaddle]

62. Unrec

[Doodler71]

64. Not to sound all sports psychology-like but...

A negative attitude is contagious. Hand wringing and worrying is not going to do anything be deflate the base. People want to back a winner, I get that. But labeling it a loser a month out is premature and counter productive.

[Cha]

89. It's not only "hand wringing" but..

GAME OVER, DUDE!

It's having just the opposite effect on me.. highlighting how stupid the OP and others like it are.

[Ikonoklast]

65. Whatever. Good thing your opinion is meaningless.

I will predict tears, but not for Democrats.

[geckosfeet]

68. pfffft

How did you get that tail so far between your legs?

[GallopingGhost]

73. If Romney looked sane I'd hate to see crazy.

And I'll bet debate #2 is more watched than the first.

[flamingdem]

75. You're still here?

Thought you'd be a pie by now jus kiddin'

[faith woos science]

76. Can I reserve a Florida vacation?

99 bucks, right?

[janx]

81. . . .

!!!

[RBInMaine]

79. Either this is sarcasm, or you have entirely lost your marbles. If it isn't a joke, it should be.

[janx]

80. Don't you have some faxes to send

or something?

[Andy823]

82. Total bullshit! nt

[NightOwwl]

83. I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!

[RBInMaine]

84. Really, you need to go get your meds checked. This is the CRAZIEST post I have ever seen.

[VespertineIconoclast]

86. ...

[SoFlaJet]

87. 78.4% chance of winning

is what Nate Silver says at 538...who do YOU trust more?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

90. That hasn't factored in today's polls

He's been quiet since last night. I anxiously await his update.

[karynnj]

91. If he is too hated to win, how can some one LESS liked win?

Obama's favorables were much higher than Romney's

[Lex]

92. The OP is laughable.

[book_worm]

93. I'm sorry and I may get alerted on this, but F**k you.

[Skraxx]

94. The Trolliest Troll That Ever Trolled Trollville's Trollific Troll

Troll?

[Lex]

95. Do you understand NUMBERS?

They are a better predictor than your "feelings," and if you do understand numbers, have you looked at: http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

[notadmblnd]

96. Have you suffered a recent head injury?

[KansDem]

102. Time to see the wizard...

[Avalux]

98. I am asking all the anti-Obama DUers this one question:

Do you plan on voting for Obama?

I doubt I'll get an answer from you.

[HeeBGBz]

100. Okayyyyyyy

[WI_DEM]

101. boy some people around here give up awfully easily.

[thelordofhell]

103. Sure thing Debbie

[rateyes]

104. it is over...

Romney s toast, and you are out of your freaking mind.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

105. "All Romney had to do was look sane which he did."

Wholly f'n shit! You call a plutocratic, derisive smirk, "sane"?

Good riddance to you, and your hyperbolic pile o'shit OP.

[PlanetBev]

106. Good Christ

I'm waiting for my heart to start again....

[jzodda]

108. Terrible Attitute

And one which I won't subscribe to. I won't give up-Your promoting the worst type of voter suppression and one worse then any organized effort. The net effect of your post if people started to believe it on a large scale would be to give up and when people give up they usually just stay home.

Stop sinking into despair over a few bad days and work to make sure your notion of losing does not come to pass!

[quaker bill]

110. First thing, you are in Oviedo

They haven't elected a dem there to any office since 1976. Secondly, attempt to find Obama/Biden yard signs locally, it is pretty tough. Only one location in Orlando has had them up to now. I managed to get 2 last week. Slowly but surely my neighborhood is coming back to yard sign parity.

The campaign here has been focused on registering voters, not passing out yard signs. The news I have is that they have met their goals. Orange Co will more than pick up the slack from Seminole, just like it did in 2008.

The election is by no means lost in FL.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

118. I Lived In Cen FL From 6/70 -4/012

I saw lots of Kerry signs in 04 and lots of Obama signs in 08 in tony Winter Park. Orange County will be blue. It's been blue in every recent election.

[budkin]

111. Try these... they work for me

[Autumn]

112. There are 3 SOP alerts on this. A jury voted 2-4 to keep it.

Please remember when something like this comes up to use the Community Standards and check the TOS box. Thanks.

[ncgrits]

116. Oh for god's sake. Needing attention? Jeebus. nt

[andym]

117. Ridiculous argument-- the polls indicate an undecided election at worst

It comes down to a battle of narratives:
1) The President's policies have set the country on the road to recovery, but it will take 5 years because of the damage done by Bush policies.
vs
2) The economy is getting worse due to the President's policies.


It is very possible to win this debate, and I expect the President to do so.

[demwing]

119. Soooo many Boo Boos

Boo Boo #1 - "The President is too hated to win this election"
A. Well, the President is pretty damn well liked, even by his opponents. He's a classy man, a great dad, and has an infectious grin! His "likability" is his greatest strength, so naturally we understand why you begin there with your doom-saying. How Rovian.

Boo Boo #2 - "Back in 2008, there simply was not simply enough time for the republicans to infect the electorate before the election"
A. I particularly liked this one, because it made me chuckle with silliness. I did not know that the Republicans suddenly sprang into existence in 2008, and as a result didn't have time to plan a thing (it's amazing how they spore like mushrooms--one day it's clear, the next day there's a team of small, squishy, grey Republicans growing in a ring out in the yard. How does that even happen?)! Now explain to us what Party it was that held the Presidency back then, and had near unanimous complicity in promoting their agenda within the MSM? I think it started with an "R..." OH! The "Reform" Party? No... Jeez, I just can't remember.

Boo Boo #3 - "they have put up the perfect candidate."
A. Romney's campaign is the most inept group of "professionals" ever assembled. Everything this team does is just dumb. All the verbal gaffes, all the bad trips, all the glorious lack of empathy, all the utter social awkwardness, and all the blatant lies - ALL stupid and self inflicted. And speaking of self-inflicted, the only bump that Romney has had in this race wasn't even earned. Obama slept through a critical debate, and lost momentum. Romney was allowed a few free hits. Dumb move, but what are ya gonna do? Btw - Keep watching the polls. They're trending back toward Obama already.

Boo Boo #4 - "along side aggressive voter suppression...prepare yourselves for bad news at around 10pm on 11/6."
A. Here, you really give yourself away. A Democrat who was truly concerned about voter suppression would have been more likely to encourage us all to GOTV, not prepare for defeat! There's just one proper response to suppression - expression! To paraphrase Romney: you can tell where a person's heart lies, because that's where they put their money. This was your money line ("prepare yourselves for bad news at around 10pm on 11/6&quot , and according to Romney, this is where your heart lives.

Boo Boo #4 - "I can tell you that I cannot find an Obama 2012 sign driving to work in college town here in Central Florida."
A. "College Town?" Where is that. It sounds like you copied a rant template, and forgot to drop the name of a college town where the term "college town" was typed. I live in St Pete, near SPC and USSF. I've only seen 2-3 Romney yard signs, and every other vehicle here has an Obama bumper sticker. Speak for your own "college town."

Boo Boo #5 - "The next debate won't matter; the first one did"
A. Tell that to Ronald Reagan, after his second debate with Mondale. yeah sure, only the first debate means anything...

Boo Boo #6 - "he is going to laugh all the way to the WH"
A. Until Obama handed him a debate, Mitt wasn't laughing at all. Watching the trending polls, Romney won't be laughing long. and there are still 3 more debates in which Obama can dominate the debate scene.

BTW - Major props to you for the complete 'straight face' you maintained while discussing your post. Nicely done, despite the boo boos.

[just1voice]

120. The lack of stickers/signs is due to violence-inclined repukes

Nobody wants to make themselves a target for repuke abuse but that in no way suggests fewer (D) voters. There may be fewer voters overall because of people disappointed with the Obama admin and people disappointed in the incredibly inept repuke candidate.

Sadly, the repuke is a lot closer than he should be exactly because of the people whom vote against their own interests.

[smackd]

121. you picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue (nm)

[cheriemedium59]

122. I live in Iowa and..

I see way more Obama signs than Romney. Your negative attitude
doesn't help our cause..

[Jamaal510]

124. I understand OP's concern.

Indeed there are quite a number of uninformed people from the 99% who are willing to vote for the GOP and against their economic interests. Those people are motivated by wedge issues like guns, God, and gays like how Obama said 4 years ago. And the media tries overly hard to appear impartial and dodge the liberal bias label, rather than call out all of the lies.
Fortunately, the president still has a steady lead in just about every battleground state, and the Congressional races appear to be looking better for Democrats every week. For example, Scott Brown led by at least 5% in MA, but now Elizabeth Warren is up several points. And Todd Akin has been trailing ever since his "legitimate rape" comments.
Don't get me wrong--Democrats do need to continue striking while the iron is hot, since yeah...this election is far from a sure thing, and there are working class people who gladly follow the plutocratic agenda of the GOP. But I think it's a bit early to admit defeat.

[DevonRex]

175. Good lord.

[liberal N proud]

126. To hated?

Hated by white angre men and that is all.

is wrong with you?

[Historic NY]

127. Can we help you over to Freak Republic...with you defeatist attitude you'd fit in there

[CitizenPatriot]

129. Ovie

where do you get your ideas from?

Polling shows that this president is far more liked than Romney and the entire House of Republicans.

He is also more trusted.

That's science, as opposed to your sign calculations in your republican neighborhood.

We had a pollster here from your area who claimed to be non-partisan and then we found him hanging out at a GOP toastmasters event, which is still viewable on Google Cache. Seems to be going around.

No worries.

[NYC Liberal]

130. Can't stop laughing while reading this post!

OH NOES!

[Raster]

131. Epic Fail!

:troll:

[AverageJoe90]

132. I think you'll find yourself amongst a very small minority here, OviedoDem.

By the way, where are you in FL, exactly? Obama can't win over everyone, and it's possible Romney could still win Florida.
But just remember what happened back in 1984: Everybody thought that Walter Mondale creamed Reagan in the first debates. But look what happened afterwards: Mondale played his best hand way too soon and it cost him dearly. On the other hand, Obama has decided to save his best attacks for later, and Romney's played his ace cards already. I wouldn't be surprised to see Obama win at least 52% of the vote by the time it's all over.

And then there's the matter of Gary Johnson, who's been siphoning off a not terribly large by any means, but still potentially significant number of Republican votes, particularly in Colorado where it could really hurt the GOP's chances for victory. And what about Virgil Goode in Virginia? That guy's sure to win over at least a few Teabaggers who think Romney's too 'liberal'(LOL), for the White House.

[Bjorn Against]

133. Marking this thread so I can remember to kick it on election night.

[catbyte]

136. What's the matter, oviedodem? Was the screen name Chicken Little taken?

Or are you just a lame concern troll? Either way, shoo with that attitude. Shame on you. If you are a dem, grow a fucking spine, will ya?

[hrmjustin]

135. Seems like troll talk to me.

[Jennicut]

137. Holy cow. This race is very close but Obama can still win. Maybe if we were down 7 points.

Obama and Romney may exchange some leads in the next week or so but after the second debate I think things will settle and Obama is just more likable and the economy is moving in the right direction. I cannot believe you would give up on a race that can be potentially won. Were you around for 2004? Sheesh. There were cooler heads back then and Kerry really was behind a few points in most of the polls. We didn't win but no one jumped off a bridge either. By 2008, we were ready again.

Also, you live in CENTRAL FLORIDA. Hello. It's Republican there. Get out and realize there is a whole United States around you. And I live in Connecticut and see hardly any signs for anyone here.

[LadyHawkAZ]

142. Whatevs...

Thank you for your concern though.

[emily16]

143. I strongly disagree, and I'm not the only one

Noted Lincoln expert believes Obama won the first presidential debate.

Most pundits, left and right, say Romney won the first presidential debate. But not Gene Griessman, author of Lincoln and Obama, a new book that examines similarities between the 16th and 44th presidents.

Griessman sees a parallel between the Lincoln-Douglas debates in 1858 and the 2012 debate between Obama and Romney.

Here are Griessman's comments:

The debate formats and issues were different, but there are striking similarities.

For one, a lot of people thought Douglas won those debates. We revere Lincoln today, and want to believe that Lincoln demolished Douglas. But that was not the perception at the time.

Stephen Douglas was a feared and formidable debater--confident and powerful. Even when Douglas misstated facts, or when an opponent landed a blow on him, Douglas didn't show it.

But Douglas made some statements about slavery in those debates that upset many voters, and hurt him badly in his presidential race. And we know who won that race, don't we!

History has repeated itself.

Romney, during the debate, was concise and self-confident. Obama was almost deferential. Incidentally, people said the same thing about the way Lincoln spoke to Douglas.

But Obama said nothing that will cost him votes, and Romney did.

For example, Romney attacked PBS and Big Bird. Romney promised he would end government subsidies of a few hundred million dollars to public television--a fraction of less than one percent of the federal budget--while defending government subsidies of billions to Big Oil.

That will certainly cost him some votes, maybe quite a few votes.

Extremists in the Republican Party don't understand that millions of Americans love--cherish--public television and public radio, so they don't see it as a problem.

But it is a problem for Romney, who already is in a world of trouble with Latinos, blacks, and women. Now PBS is another issue for Romney to deal with.

Already there are bumper stickers saying Save Big Bird.

Here's the bottom line.

Virtually all Americans have already made up their minds. No Obama haters have decided to vote for Obama because of the debate, and no Obama supporters have decided to vote for Romney because Romney had a good night.

Obama may not have gained any votes, but he said nothing that will cost him votes.

So, the only change will be among those who have not yet made up their minds--moderates and independents, many of whom love public television and public radio. Those are votes that Romney needs, and a new issue that he does not need.

Gene Griessman is a sociologist and creator of a one-man play "Lincoln Live." An excerpt from the book and additional similarities are at www.lincolnandobama.com.

[Rhiannon12866]

159. Fascinating information...

Welcome to DU, emily16! We're glad to have you with us!

[tallahasseedem]

165. Amazing response!

Welcome to DU!

[geek tragedy]

145. Was it over when the Germans attacked Pearl Harbor? nt

[stevenleser]

148. YOUR CONCERN IS NOTED

[Doctor Jack]

149. 4300 Views, 149 Replies, 0 Recs

I don't think people agree with this nonsense.

[desertduck]

150. the sky is falling b/c of 1 debate that will be forgotten by tomorrow? REALLY??!?!?!!

no offense, oviedodem....but seriously. you should go have a drink. the cracks are beginning to show and you are not making any sense whatsoever.

[jberryhill]

153. Lol... Good one

[DonCoquixote]

156. with all due respect

You live in a part of Central Florida that is still hostile to all those out of towners that moved in. Central Florida was evangelist central, and it sure does not help that the site of the Trayvon Martin murder is not too far. Zimmerman did a lot to rile up Central Florida. I am in Tampa, and I can tell you, that there are MANY Obama supporters here.

Of course, if one debate is enough to lose an election, and have the Dems basicly abandon Obama (gotta prep for Hillary 2016, you betcha!) then frankly why bother, as, for allof Obama's lack of game, you know that Mitt could have eaten babies on stage, and the media, wanting the money a "horserace" brings, would have called it brilliant.

If we do not fight now, do not bother. Hillary has her own baggage, and Bill will make his gaffes. I would like to think we would survive a Romney reign, but not now. Bush put us in traction, but Mitt will use the war with Iran to wreck the world,and ensure more programs need cutting, till we are barely serfs. Add to this that if Obama loses, the message that willbe preached is "Obama was too much of a leftist." If you think Hillary will not cut socials security, read about how her Hubby, St.Bill of the Cigars, almost did that in a book called "The pact." The only thing that stopped him is that the GOP went for impeaching him. Imagine the death that willensue, as Mitt tries to indulge his and Bibi's fantasies of being a Messiah!

FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION. And to even hint that the Dems should focus on the senate is foolish, especially as it ignores the one main reason most of us wondered where most of the hope and change went; it got flushed down to commode by turncoat, Blue-Dog congress critters. We could have had every congressperson a member of the Democratic party, but as long as Citizens United greasespalms locally, it would NOT matter. I mean, in Florida, we have to choose between BillNelson and Buddy Mack. Mack is dangerous, so Nelson will get my vote, but neither is remotely to the left. Let's not even get into the fact that Rick Scott does not even need the polls, as the only one we can run against him is...Charlie crist....no, I will not Alex "let me surrender so I can go back to my law firm" Sink throw another election.

In short, we need Obama to have whatever momentum we have. If we yield, we might as well sign not just the country, but the whole world, over to Romney. If the global warming does not kill us, World War III sure will.

[Indpndnt]

158. This thread is hilarious!

[NBachers]

161. I cherish this thread. Thank you, ODdem, for making it all possible.

Too precious to TS at this point.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

162. This Thread Makes Me Sad

[myrna minx]

163. I just wanted to be a part of this thread.

[Indpndnt]

168. Thank you!

I love starting off my morning cleaning coffee off my screen!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

164. The Suggestion That Oviedo Is A College Town Is Laughable

Oviedo is a suburb of Orlando in northeastern Seminole County. It is contiguous to Orlando which is the home of the my alma mata, the University Of Central Florida. I think Orlando is defined by a lot of things but the University Of Central Florida isn't on top of the list.

[CTyankee]

167. So obvious! This is trash talking, oviedodem, pure and simple. I'm amazed that you

think you can get away with this. How silly of you...

[yellowcanine]

169. I have one number for you: 1984.

Go read the history of the 1984 election. Mondale creamed Reagan in the first debate and he got a big bump in the polls. That turned out to be merely a blip in the overall campaign and Reagan won going away in November.

[FSogol]

170. Haw-haw, not a single rec. No one buys the BS you are peddling.

[msanthrope]

171. Doug??? Doug Kaplan!11 Is that you??? nt

[TwilightGardener]

174. Fortitude...you don't haz it.

[arcane1]

176. Thank you for this in-depth analysis

Aside from republicans, Obama isn't "hated" at all. Have you seen the crowds and their enthusiasm?