Video proof of Bernie calling for a primary challenge to Obama in 2012.

[Dawson Leery]

&feature=youtu.be

[Autumn]

1. Is that in question? We all know he did and we know the reason why.

Democracy, it's a beautiful thing. Thanks for the video.

[TheBlackAdder]

41. I can't believe this OP stupidity--challenge is great to refocus attention & energize the base! nt

[Autumn]

43. It's holding ones feet to the fire...that's what Obama said to do.

I find the outrage very this to be so very amusing.

[earthshine]

45. We lost really bad in 2010.

I believe, in large part, that this was because Obama campaigned as a progressive in 2008, but then governed as a corporatist.

He blew all the hope-for-change and enthusiasm. He's the ideological head of the party. It's on him.

Anyone for some afternoon TPP?

[bravenak]

2. People will tell you that it is perfectly fine

But if it were president Sanders they would feel like I do

[Vincardog]

28. Let's give it a shot. Elect Bernie and if he is not liberal enough, we primary him.

[bravenak]

32. No thanks

Jill Stein yes I would. Not for Bernie, never for him.

[Rocky the Leprechaun]

74. Let me understand your reasoning for not voting for Bernie.

Please do explain

[bravenak]

112. You. His fans.

[Rocky the Leprechaun]

113. So you are not voting for Bernie based on his supporters?

Sad. He isn't defined by his supporters.

Hillary turns me off just by herself.

[bravenak]

114. I do not join in on this type of stuff

I read John Lweis facebook with those comments. Too much nasty

[JRLeft]

107. I like Jill Stein too. Too bad she didn't run as a dem, but I know why she didn't.

[CincyDem]

3. Help

Has there been any comment from the campaign or candidate denying that he proposed a primary challenge in 2012 ?

Just trying to understand if he's owning it or running from it.

Thanks.

Disclaimer.

I'm in Ohio. By the time the show gets here for our March 15 primary, it's like Highlander (There can be only one) so when people ask who my candidate is the answer is easy...the one with the little donkey lapel pin. I can't care right now because thoughtful Dems in 21 other states will have their opinions heard before mine. They will do the heavy lifting of sorting out who among the Dems will be our candidate. If they pick HRC, she gets my vote. If they pick Bernie, he will get my vote. If they pick Bugs Bunny, the rabbit gets my vote (ok - maybe I'll think more about this one). My point is not that I don't care. It's that living in Ohio, I've got work to do in the general and I can't get confused by wishing there was some other Dem on the ballot in November. It's counterproductive and a crazy maker.

[bigdarryl]

6. They have not said shit about it

[CincyDem]

21. reminds me of a line from and old DeNiro/Duvall movie. NSFW (a little)

True Confessions. (great movie if you haven't seen it)

DeNiro is a priest with shady friends.
Duvall is his brother and a homicide cop.

Girl's body found.

Suspect is a friend of DeNiro's character.
Suspect tries to tell DeNiro he's complicit too.

DeNiro says "No. Let's be clear. I picked her up. You f*cked her".

Kind of like "No. Let's be clear. I called for a primary challenge. You ran against him".

I don't know. All this feels like a non-issue.

[cyberswede]

52. Why on earth would they deny it?

[passiveporcupine]

69. He owned it

But the reason he said it in the first place needed to be part of the story. I've posted the link here twice now of Hartman interviewing him and what led up to that reply to a caller's question.

You need to watch the whole program, not the three minute sound bite that takes it out of context.

[winter is coming]

4. And we should care because...?

It's a four-year term, not an eight-year one. Any incumbent who can't withstand a primary challenger is probably not going to win re-election in any case.

[demosocialist]

30. this ^^^^

I hope Pres. Sanders has a primary challenger!

I think all incumbents should always have.

So I liked Obama in 2008, I like Sanders in 2016. I supported Obama getting challenged in 2012, just like I will support Sanders being challenged 2020. Not seeing the issue with this, its a representative democracy, whats wrong with a primary challenge?

[deutsey]

46. +1

[uponit7771]

71. It hurts the party in power and always has... that's why, facts matter... Carter

[winter is coming]

84. Claiming that Carter's loss is down to Kennedy's challenge is ludicrous.

The Iranian hostage situation is what really hurt him.

[uponit7771]

85. Could you name a time in History where the priimary challenge has helped? tia

[winter is coming]

87. Without parallel universes, that's an exercise in speculation. n/t

[firebrand80]

5. Sounds to me like he's doing more than just calling for a primary challenge

He was talking like he had a plan in the works

[Dawson Leery]

10. +1

[LisaM]

27. Well, that's a good get. He said Obama was weak

and people were demoralized. So it's really interesting that last night he said it was a low blow when Hillary said he'd called Obama weak.

[Hortensis]

59. He also accused Obama of MOVING RIGHT.

Talk about low blows. Where's the shame? Should we just infer it from the lack of mention by his supporters?

[passiveporcupine]

67. Obama was talking about cutting social security and Bernie was pissed

He apologized a week later. But Obama, who ran as a progressive who would NOT cut social security, and still today calls himself a progressive,should not have been waving around the idea of cutting social security, veterans care, medicare, medicaid, etc..

It was in the Thom Hartman show, but you are not seeing the first part of the discussion that explains why he said what he said. (of course).

Here is the link to the first (missing) part of the show:

&index=2&list=PLB5491C057A556646


You really need to watch this whole clip to understand why Bernie said what he said in that short and dishonestly edited clip.

[Karma13612]

90. Thank you for setting

The record straight.

[daleanime]

7. Video proof of Hillary's campaign against Obama...

[cyberswede]

8. And?

A primary challenge is actually a good thing, you know. Democracy and all that.

[mobyz]

20. lets see if you

Feel the same way if Bernie somehow wins the presidency, and someone comes out and decides to primary him as an incumbent. You guys are already going crazy everytime someone even challenges him about anything. Lets see if you guys will be able to handle a little bit of the abuse you all seem to throw at President Obama every chance you get. I doubt it.

[cyberswede]

23. My opinions about important things don't change when the wind blows

...and who the fuck is "you guys?"

[bravenak]

26. Thank you

mobyz
20. lets see if you
View profile
Feel the same way if Bernie somehow wins the presidency, and someone comes out and decides to primary him as an incumbent. You guys are already going crazy everytime someone even challenges him about anything. Lets see if you guys will be able to handle a little bit of the abuse you all seem to throw at President Obama every chance you get. I doubt it.

For saying it.

[bunnies]

29. Three posts and youre already lecturing DUers about what goes on around here.

Good luck with that.

[mobyz]

42. The truth hurts...

Excuse me, I didn't know someone appointed you as DU watchdog.

[Paulie]

89. No that's the MIRT

Welcome to DU.

[earthshine]

50. Sounds good to me.

Let's elect Bernie in 2016, and give him a primary challenger in 2020.

[uponit7771]

72. ... and Sanders should be making sure he tells everyone in the SEC states he wanted Obama challenged

... for the presidency

Good?

regards

[cyberswede]

88. Ok.

I presume people in the SEC states like democracy, too.

[uponit7771]

91. we'll see if Sanders clings ti what he said or run away from it

[NurseJackie]

9. Amazing.

For obvious reasons, I cannot elaborate any further on how this makes me feel and what I think about this.

[stonecutter357]

12. " this posts has been hidden by a DU Jury" DanTex.

[NurseJackie]

16. Nailed it!

[stonecutter357]

11. wow just wow.

[cyberswede]

25. I know! Democracy sux!!!1!

[jkbRN]

13. Omg!!

Feel the bern!!

[PonyUp]

14. Clinton's assassination remark about Obama

[uponit7771]

73. Which was forgiven by Obama and forgiving by a lot of others too.

[PonyUp]

79. Did you forgive her for assassination remark and Bernie for primary challenge?

Which one do you think is worse?
Obama was already getting death threats, and didn't need her to add fuel to the fire.
Do you think a primary challenge is worse than the risk of being killed?

[uponit7771]

86. Obama picked her for SoS, so HE... forgave her that much and no I'm not forgiving someone

... who doesn't even want to own up to years of consummate Obama bashing.

Cornell West said Obama was N-word-izzed ... the man is vile and hates Obama for not giving him the inaugartion seats he wanted

[fredamae]

15. Democracy Be Damned

Gasp!

[daleanime]

17. Clinton campaign against Obama...

[jeff47]

18. Were you operating under the illusion people were denying he did this?

Also, are you operating under the illusion that criticizing a sitting president is forbidden?

[basselope]

19. MANY OF US called for a primary challenger to Obama.

[earthshine]

53. Like me! nt

[uponit7771]

75. Good, you guys willing to make sure everyone in the SEC states knows this like Sanders will?

... or wont... cause you know... authentic and stuff

[basselope]

92. I'll sing it proudly from the rooftop.

Obama is the best republican president of my lifetime.

I'd like a democrat for a change.

[uponit7771]

93. GREAT!!! Lets make sure Sanders owns his years of consummate bashing of Obama in the SEC..

... states then.

Wouldn't want him to become anything like the despised weather divice no?

tia

[basselope]

105. He owned it quite nicely on the debate stage.

Its sad that he had to explain to people that in a democracy it is not a horrible thing for a Senator to disagree with a sitting President.

It really IS the job.. but people are just so used to yes men and women and politicians who blindly follow w/o thought I guess you believe they can't understand when someone is actually fighting for them.

I give them far more credit.

[m-lekktor]

99. I would have voted for the challenger. nt

[UglyGreed]

22. Perhaps Bernie has heard of dire problems many face.....

Most Americans are one paycheck away from the street

Some 63% of people can’t deal with a $500 emergency

Americans are starting 2016 with more job security, but most are still theoretically only one paycheck away from the street.

Approximately 63% of Americans have no emergency savings for things such as a $1,000 emergency room visit or a $500 car repair, according to a survey released Wednesday of 1,000 adults by personal finance website Bankrate.com, up slightly from 62% last year. Faced with an emergency, they say they would raise the money by reducing spending elsewhere (23%), borrowing from family and/or friends (15%) or using credit cards to bridge the gap (15%).

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/most-americans-are-one-paycheck-away-from-the-street-2016-01-06

But of course if your are not affected then carry on......

[Fawke Em]

24. Obama: "Now go out and make me do it!"

He wanted us to hold him accountable. Requesting that he be challenged a bit from the left is one way to do that.

[bravenak]

31. The answer always has something to do with Clinton08

Some people cannot stand on their own

[Fuddnik]

33. So what?

As a citizen, I reserve my right to question and challenge ANY elected official.

In 2006, I filed to run against Bill Nelson (D-? FL) just to bust his balls for not fillibustering the Alito nominayion, among other things. I didn't run a campaign, but I upset him.

Maybe we should just be like North Korea and execute me and Bernie for blasphemy against Dear Leader.

[djean111]

34. I cannot imagine why this would affect my support for Bernie, or change the fact that I

will be voting for Bernie in the primary.

This does not cancel out Hillary's fondness for war, fracking, cluster bombs, increased H-1B visas, or the TPP.
To think it would do so is ridiculous.

[Nanjeanne]

35. I wanted him primaried as well. Not because I didn't like or respect him as President but

because I was disappointed in some of his campaign promises *cough public option* *cough closing Guantanamo* that I felt it would be good for him to have to reaffirm what he wanted and expected to do in his second term.

As Obama used to say about insurance companies -- "to keep them honest".

Nothing wrong with it. Why do people assume it's anti-Obama? It's pro-democracy.

[deutsey]

48. Same here

[Nanjeanne]

49. You must be a bad Democrat too! nt

[deutsey]

54. I've been a bad, bad Dem

[LisaM]

63. Nothing wrong with it at all.

What's wrong is that he told Senator Clinton that it was a "low blow" to accuse him of saying Obama had a weak presidency. Because he's said it multiple times.

[SamKnause]

36. I knew there was proof.

I have seen the video.

I don't care.

[gregcrawford]

37. This was four years ago...

... what possible connection could it have to the current primary campaign? Sounds to me like you'll throw anything at the wall to see what sticks.

Reminds me of the sixties dance craze, the Limbo, where the singer asks, "How low can you go?"

[Gothmog]

38. Thanks for posting this

[UglyGreed]

40. Well MSNBC's online

poll asked if Bernie's criticism of Obama will hurt him and 80% said no.....

[sheshe2]

47. K

[UglyGreed]

64. .

[passiveporcupine]

76. The criticism of Obama on a regular basis on DU

Makes Bernie's criticism look like a hug.

[senz]

44. Bullchit. It was a conversation on how to bring Obama back to The People.

The caller was concerned about O's plan to shrink Social Security payments to elderly people. Social Security is bedrock and Bernie knows it. He was brainstorming ways to get Obama's attention.

[deutsey]

51. The scraping of the bottom of the barrel has corroded it to the point

that there's nothing left for them to throw but pure mud now.

[senz]

58. Yep, better put on our waders

it's gonna be muddy from here on out.

[Ferd Berfel]

56. Correct senz !

[Cali_Democrat]

57. "He was brainstorming ways to get Obama's attention"

[passiveporcupine]

78. Correct,and I've posted the rest of Hartman's show in this thread twice now

Not one response from the people trying to make an issue of this. I bet they won't even watch it.

[valerief]

55. Who doubted this, if I may ask? nt

[Kalidurga]

60. I was talking primary challenge myself and for the same reason/s.

And then I voted for Obama.

[840high]

61. So what? I don't care.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. Yes. He took a principled stand.

As he usually does. And, I cheer him for it.

[99Forever]

65. So what?

I should care about this because ________?

I happen to agree that Obama should have been primaryed. Sue me.

[bigwillq]

66. I would have supported a major challenge

Nothing against Obama, I just support democracy and letting the people decide.
If Bernie wins in 2016 and decides to run again in 2020, I would support a major challenge to Sanders in the primary.

[JackBeck]

118. Bye, Scalia!

[passiveporcupine]

68. This is an short clip that cuts off the whole beginning of the show

That shows why he spoke as he did.

He apologized a week later. But Obama, who ran as a progressive, and still today calls himself a progressive,should not have been waving around the idea of cutting social security, veterans care, medicare, medicaid, etc..

Here is the link to the first part of the show that was missing:

&index=2&list=PLB5491C057A556646

You really need to watch this whole clip to understand why Bernie said what he said in that short and dishonestly edited clip.

[retrowire]

70. Did we Bernie supporters ever doubt he did?

No... No we didn't.

We understood why he did it and we get it.

...Moving on! lol

[uponit7771]

77. Look, Sanders will MAKE SURE everyone in the SEC states knows he wanted Obama challenged for the

... presidency.

It's authentic, Sanders wont run from what he said!!!

He's not camp weathervane!!!

He'll OWN what he said!!!

[passiveporcupine]

80. And he had a valid reason for saying it

This thread is funny. Since I posted the whole show with the discussion leading up to his comments, not one Hillary supporter has watched it and will admit he had a good point and was not just attacking Obama out of malice. Obama was going back on his own words when he campaigned. Bernie was calling him out.

[uponit7771]

81. I disagree, Sanders is yelling at the bus driver for not going through stop and go traffic

... fast enough.

The traffic being the gerrymandered congress.

Sanders has a well established record of bashing Obama for the last 3 years, ... he wont run away from that record now

[passiveporcupine]

83. You did not watch the show clip I provided, did you?

See...I said they wouldn't.

[uponit7771]

94. ?.......... come on meta shouldnt always be used

[passiveporcupine]

95. If you watched the clip of the Hartmann interview,

You might actually understand why Bernie was criticizing Obama's actions.

If you don't want to watch it, I sure can't force you. It's everyone's responsibility to learn or not.

A lot of DUers have spent years criticizing Obama for not being progressive enough. Bernie is a progressive...the best we have in congress. Of course he's going to criticize anyone who starts talking about major social cuts. I love Obama, but I've criticized him for not being progressive enough and for putting things on the table that never should have been put there, in his attempts to work with the Republicans who froze him out.

[uponit7771]

97. It wasn't just one or two interviews its been three years of consummate bashing...

... Sanders should own his bashing of Obama cause its authentic

[passiveporcupine]

106. To you it's bashing

To me it's calling them to account. It's forcing them to face up to what they are doing wrong.

Everyone makes mistakes. Politicians are not gods. Just because they become President doesn't mean we need to support everything they do.

I'm OK with Bernie calling out our democratic politicians when they screw up. Even the President. At least he does it in a way that is not nasty. He's talking about issues, not personalities. He's still friends with these people he's calling out. He still respects them. He has the courage that most of our politicians don't have, to stand up for what he believes in.

I wish I could say the same for Hillary. She shows her disgust every time she talks to or about Bernie, and once he's out of office, will probably do the same again to Obama. She never gets over her mad.

[uponit7771]

108. Its bashing cause Sanders isn't proffering anything much better. He's being very unspecific...

... when it comes to how he'll get any of what he's proposing past a historically gerrymandered GOP congress which is at the root of his complaints about Obama; Obama compromised.

That sounds like someone screaming at a cabby for not going through stop and go traffic fast enough

Also, calling Obama weak... rightward... and proffering he be primaried is also bashing... NO mistake Obama has made deserves any of that.

On top of that...

Sanders associated his campaign with Bigga and West... two racialized bomb throwers who has some some of the most vile racialized things about Americas first black president.

Screw that... this isn't just simple criticisms where its due... and Sanders knows this

Matter of fact...

Where is Bigga and West now?

[passiveporcupine]

111. You are welcome to your opinion

But that is all it is and I respectfully disagree with you.. Bernie is calling on us to form a movement to push progressive change through. He doesn't expect to do it on his own.

[m-lekktor]

100. Not everybody does this ridiculously creepy politician personality cult thing!

Don't fucking assume everybody gives a fuck about this. Obama wasn't all THAT for chrissake.

[juxtaposed]

82. no one should go un-challenged ever it is what makes democracies work

[ThePhilosopher04]

96. All the more reason to vote Bernie. He stands on progressive principles ...

and not afraid to call out the establishment. This is a sign of strength, not weakness, and will only help him as the campaign plays out.

[libtodeath]

98. Thank you for showing Bernie is a man of principle

and not a politician that checks what is popular (Irag war vote) for his decisions.

[cantbeserious]

101. Choice Is Good -- Coronations Are Bad

eom

[Bonobo]

102. This meme needs to fuck off. The people have the right to choose the President every 4 years.

If you don't like it, choose the other party. They like authoritarians better there.

[m-lekktor]

117. they are like a broken fucking record with this whiney obama personality cult horseshit. nt

[Perogie]

103. He wasn't king, he was president.

If it offends you then you don't understand the political process.

[Zambero]

104. Well so what?

We elect presidents and consider them for re-election if and when they seek a second term. We don't stage pre-planned coronations for a second term. If an incumbent president deserves to be re-elected or otherwise, voters will make that decision. Incumbency has never been a sacred cow.

[H2O Man]

109. Thank you,

Senator Sanders. I appreciate your advocacy for a progressive government.

[AtomicKitten]

110. Bill Clinton reportedly encouraged Hillary to challenge Obama in 2012. So there's that.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/us-election-2012/46878/bill-clinton-told-hillary-run-against-president-obama

[JackRiddler]

115. Video proof of Clinton challenging Obama in 2008 primaries.

[TransitJohn]

116. Why do you think he's running against an Obama third term now?