Have you ever had a discussion with a smart person that really had command of the subject matter?

[Skwmom]

Last edited Fri Feb 12, 2016, 02:22 AM - Edit history (3)

Because if you had, you would realize that wasn't what you were seeing with Hillary Clinton.

She is all smoke and mirrors, no real substance.

In fact, I feel like I'm watching a scripted reality tv show.

Update: Clinton really places a lot of emphasis on her hair and dress. It's been my experience that really smart people (those that have good judgment like Bernie) don't place much emphasis on their dress. But people that dress to the nines, we'll let's just say that I've always found them to be less than the sharpest tools in the shed. They tend to focus on projecting a certain image to cover up for a lack of intellectual substance.

We are constantly being told how accomplished Clinton is, a genius at domestic and foreign affairs? Really? What are the FACTS that support this assertion?

Note: A policy wonk that can remember arcane details does not a brilliant person make.

[TCJ70]

1. As a Sanders supporter...

...I disagree. Hillary has a great deal of knowledge on the state of the world and how things are. We just differ greatly on what to do about it and what our role in the world is. She knows her stuff, she's just wrong about her conclusions and recommendations.

[Empowerer]

4. Thank you

The notion around here that people who disagree with us are stupid or evil has really gotten out of hand.

[Hortensis]

48. Thank you both. Notably, in both IA and NH large majorities of

Sanders supporters were like you, and most considered her a very acceptable second choice. So it may be out of hand here, but...oh, well.

[Skwmom]

5. It is scripted and based on information fed to her from other people.

Rattling of memorized stuff is not impressive.

[Stallion]

13. You Don't Have to Memorize What You Have Personally Experienced

including
as Secretary of State
Health Care reform in the 1990s
Equal Rights, woman and children's rights

some of the criticism of Clinton seem to be missing about 2 decades of fact

[Art_from_Ark]

34. Well, health care reform didn't get anywhere in the 1990s

It didn't help that her health care meetings were in secret. That might have doomed them right there.

Did she campaign for equal rights? I must have missed that.

She might be for women's and children's rights, but she has advocated for "regime change" in three of the most secular countries of the Middle East, where women had enjoyed more rights than their sisters in theocratic countries.

[bettyellen]

49. I thought the part of the OP claiming well groomed people are less intelligent was scripted- and

yep, pretty sexist and moronic. We should be better than this.

[MrMickeysMom]

60. According to Ray Swarez's interview with a few experts in what black voters respond to...

Hillary has the nomenclature down. They didn't use those words, but essentially, they said Bernie has more to offer the black community, but Hillary has a better command of the way to say it.

Now... I was a bit gobsmacked after that confession, but then I thought... That is probably an admission they didn't feel as comfortable saying themselves.

Not sure if this will play again, but it was on Al Jazeera earlier tonight.

[Joe the Revelator]

6. Agreed. My beef with Hillary is not her intelligence, it's her way she wants to accomplish her goals

most of which include grabbing as much personal power as possible.

[TCJ70]

7. Yeah...she's a big time panderer, no doubt about it.

Bernie's proposals happen to be more realistic particularly in the funding category because they do give everyone a stake in the game. 2.2% for Medicare for All is a huge example. Her prescription is the ultra populist (and unrealistic) "I'll get it from the rich!" Bernie asks people to be citizens...which will only increase everyone's investment in these policies succeeding.

[JudyM]

8. yes, exactly as I see it. she wants to get power and have people answer to her, help people

along the way so that she'll be deified. Bernie isnt into money or poe=wer for its own sake, he wants to help the kids starving on the street.

[onecaliberal]

2. She does nothing but talk around things. No substance no specifics.

[deathrind]

3. Yes...

Once, and it was priceless lesson.

[kcjohn1]

9. I hate to say it

But Hillary talk is smooth, and I'm going to say this as diplomatically as possible, she is what a person who doesn't have command of the issues thinks smart people sound like.

For example people think she is great on foreign policy when its actually one of her weakness. From Iraq war, failed mid-east policy (Libya, Egypt, etc), relying on neocons like Kissinger, etc. She says capital cities, and talks BS but her policy is as disastrous as any republican. But people think she is smart because she can put couple of sentences together?

[Skwmom]

12. They think she is smart because they are constantly told that. n/t

[bettyellen]

50. Bernie described her as "intelligent" when asked for one word to describe Hillary. Never seen a

candidate's supporters disagree with their candidate so frequently as I have here.
Was Bernie was just pandering- or lying?

[snagglepuss]

36. "she is what a person who doesn't have command of the issues thinks smart people sound like"

A very interesting observation that is imo bang on. And your right about SoS disasters. Has anyone stated anything she got right? Anything that matches Kerry's successes as SoS?

[dreamnightwind]

11. Such attributes must be in service of a greater wisdom

Intelligence, being articulate, and command of the issues can be found on different sides of the same issues. I think Hillary has all of those attributes, in spades.

Intelligent articulate people should have their grounding and motivations carefully evaluated. They are able to convince people of anything.

Is there any correlation between intelligence and wisdom? I'm pretty cynical about that. I've seen so many brilliant minds use their intelligence to convince people of things that should not be believed. I have a profound distrust of intelligent people who are persuasive and have highly developed communication skills.

Buyer beware.

[Skwmom]

21. Just because you can string together words does not make you brilliant. Manipulative people can

convince people of just about anything (and it has nothing to do with intelligence).

[dreamnightwind]

26. Hmm, I see it differently

I mean I wouldn't disagree with your subject line, but re Hillary, she is obviously highly intelligent, as is Bill. They're both excellent social manipulators, too, though Hillary's is more transparent than Bill's.

Bernie is intelligent and his intellect serves a greater purpose than ambition or career/monetary/power goals, which is what I see as being the governing forces for the Clintons' intellect.

Anyway we're just quibling, or discussing interesting nuances of all of this. I rec'd your OP and don't trust the Clintons, at all, they are not friends of anyone but the wealthy.

[Dragonfli]

22. " Intelligent articulate people should have their grounding and motivations carefully evaluated.

I have a profound distrust of intelligent people who are persuasive and have highly developed communication skills They are able to convince people of anything.

Is there any correlation between intelligence and wisdom? I'm pretty cynical about that. I've seen so many brilliant minds use their intelligence to convince people of things that should not be believed. I have a profound distrust of intelligent people who are persuasive and have highly developed communication skills.

Buyer beware."

Very wise, most Sociopaths are exactly as you describe, but lacking the ability to feel empathy or see others as fellow living beings, they often do great harm.

Fun fact: not all sociopaths are serial killers, but such comes easy for them. Most sociopaths gravitate to careers such as politicians and surgeons.

Buyer beware indeed.

[dreamnightwind]

27. Why kill people

when you can make a killing off of them?

[fun n serious]

14. Scripted? Lol! Hilary is a pro. She knows what she is doing.

She had Bernie stuttering!

[Logical]

24. Yes, taking you for a ride! Nt

[Renew Deal]

15. Sorry, but you are wrong on this one.

And I think you know it.

[Skwmom]

17. I'm one of those who form my own opinion no matter how many times an idea is

repeated. Constantly hearing how smart she is doesn't convince me.

[Renew Deal]

18. I understand that.

It's the "smoke and mirrors, no substance" part I disagree with. She is clearly knowledgeable and substantive.

[Skwmom]

25. Because she can regurgitate what her staff has put together for her?

[Renew Deal]

31. No, because she knows it.

And you don't have to take my word for it. Here's what Obama said:

"Her strengths, which are the fact that she’s extraordinarily experienced – and, you know, wicked smart and knows every policy inside and out"

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/off-message-podcast-transcript-obama-218167

[Skwmom]

33. Well maybe she's good at getting into the detail but as far as stepping back. looking at the

big picture and making sound judgments, she fails miserably.

[Hortensis]

51. You make that clear beyond any possible doubt, Skw.

[DarthDem]

29. No Kidding

Wow. What a reach. Plus a bonus wardrobe attack!

[tk2kewl]

16. Yes, but why do you hate Obama?

[Skwmom]

19. Did I mention Obama? I'm talking about Clinton. Why would I hate Obama? n/t

[tk2kewl]

20. I thought the :sarcasm: tag was self evident.

[Skwmom]

23. Sorry. After I posted, I did wonder if you were being sarcastic. nt

[LonePirate]

28. Hillary probably has a stylist who selects all of the clothes she wears for high profile appearances

It's probably not a good idea to draw any sort of conclusions between how she dresses and how much of a command (or not) of the issues she has.

[BeyondGeography]

30. Not a fan of the Clintons but they're both super-smart

the kind of people who bolt Yale Law to run a presidential campaign in Texas, come back six weeks later and ace their finals kind-of-smart. What I don't get about them is their post WH money and power obsessions, but neither one is faking it in the intelligence department.

[Skwmom]

32. George Bush went to Harvard. She flunked the DC Bar.

They did so much damage to this county the first go around, screwing up in monumental ways. How in the hell is that super-smart?

[Stallion]

35. Face Palm

you want to jump in here about Obama's birth certificate and college transcripts

[Skwmom]

38. No n/t

[Hortensis]

53. Lol. She only got in by affirmative action.

[Beacool]

37. This is the most amusing comment I read tonight.

Hillary not having command of the issues has never been something that anyone, even her enemies, has ever questioned. Hillary does her homework and is a policy wonk. She knows even the most arcane details about policy. So did Bill and Gore was like that too. I think that you are confusing the candidates.



Hillary not smart???? That is really precious.




Ahhh, the nonsense one reads here........

[Skwmom]

39. Well a policy wonk that can remember arcane details does not a brilliant person make. It is a

different skill set.

[Beacool]

41. Hillary is often the smartest person in any room.

Your OP is so off base to be funny.

Sorry, but you obviously do not know Hillary.

[Skwmom]

42. With the state of our government, pardon me but I'm not impressed. Well prepped people

may come off as intelligent when in fact they are just well prepped.

[Beacool]

43. Forget it, this discussion is going nowhere.

You go ahead and keep thinking that Hillary is not intelligent.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. Is somebody who was a National Honor Society member and a Merit Scholarship finalist

Is somebody who was a National Honor Society member and a Merit Scholarship finalist and has a B.S. From Wellesley and a J.D. from Yale Law School intelligent?

[Live and Learn]

40. Exactly. It is so transparent too. nt

[JoeyT]

44. If I did, I probably didn't understand them.

I don't think Hillary is dumb. I thing she has a pretty good idea what's going on has a very different opinion of what should be fixed and how it should be fixed than I do.

[Jim Lane]

45. I disagree with you about the hair-and-dress thing.

You write, "It's been my experience that really smart people (those that have good judgment like Bernie) don't place much emphasis on their dress." As a generalization, that's also been my experience, although it's only roughly accurate; there are many exceptions.

Nevertheless, my experience (and probably yours) is mostly with people who aren't in the public eye. Someone who'll be speaking at two outdoor rallies and two high school gyms today, and then doing a TV interview tonight, faces a different calculus. If you're trying to impress and influence people, you have to acknowledge that some will judge you based on superficial aspects of personal appearance. That unfortunately goes double for a woman. Hillary Clinton can expect that her hair, dress, and even make-up will be subject to media scrutiny, so she has to put more emphasis on such things.

From what I've read, Sarah Palin was excited at the opportunity to get a lot of new clothes on the campaign's dime. If a candidate reacts that way, you could make a case for citing it as suggestive of lower intelligence. For all I know, though, Hillary Clinton thinks of her attention to her appearance the way I think of putting on a suit and tie when I go into court to represent a client -- it's a nuisance but a necessary one.

[Hortensis]

62. Hillary was famous for having no patience

with her hair - when she was SecState most days seemed to be bad hair days. Some days she'd just quick-tie it at the back of her neck, and I'd be wondering what hell was breaking out where. Lol. Now, campaigning for president, the whole matter has obviously been put in the hands of a pro.

[cali]

46. What what what????

Ridiculous

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. She was a National Honor Society member and a Merit Scholarship Finalist.

She has a B.S. From Wellesley and a J.D. from Yale Law School.


I suspect her I.Q. is north of 140.

[PeaceNikki]

59. This.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. I wish I could have got into Yale Law School...

She had to have a really high LSAT which corresponds with I.Q.

[Hoyt]

52. Have you noticed Sanders recent tailored suits and slicked down hair? He's sold out.

[winter is coming]

66. Tailored, my ass.

If his suits aren't off-the-rack, he'd better ask for his money back from whoever made them.

[Hiraeth]

54. She is not a visionary rather she is good on minutiae and details. That is why, at one time,

I thought she would make a good veep for Bernie. Now, I am not so sure ...

[cyberswede]

56. Don't be ridiculous. Hillary has a fine command of the issues

she just doesn't have a spontaneous-sounding delivery. If you watched her at the most recent Benghazi hearing, she was fucking brilliant.

And that bit about her clothes: is that satire?

[PeaceNikki]

58. Agreed. She was amazing in those hearings. Plus, as is mentioned above, she's an incredibly

intelligent women.

[Justice]

57. This OP is a sad way to advocate for a candidate.

[liberal N proud]

63. I did not get that when I talked to her

Both times.

[speaktruthtopower]

64. National Merit, Wellesley, Yale Law

speak for themselves. She's a top one percenter, along with million or so other people in the age range to run for President.

On the other hand her elevation from First Lady to the Senate in a state she had just moved to wasn't because she's smart, it was because she was connected, and tapped into Bill's wealthy Wall Street backers.

On the third hand, who else is that smart with similar experience?

[Squinch]

65. You guys have gone absolutely around the bend.