2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThat silly "voter fraud" video.
You've probably seen a link to it, it's been making rounds. It's 10 minutes long, and the reason it's this long is to make sure that nobody actually bothers to watch it, because then they might die laughing at the suggestion that "fraud" occurred somewhere in it.
Luckily for you, I watched it, so you can save your 10 minutes.
The video starts with a Bernie person (don't know what the title is) counting votes. Apparently the procedure is, you keep your hand up, and when you get counted, you put it down. She gets to 222 with this method, and then says "and there's a guy at the table" to arrive at a count of 223. Fraud! Breach of protocol!
Now comes the "controversy." There had apparently been a previous count, and the Hillary counter this time around counted newcomers (presumably from O'Malley) and added it to the previous count, while the Bernie counter did a full recount. There was nothing unseemly about this, as evidenced by the fact that she explained this in full view of a Bernie person in some kind of leadership position who understood and didn't raise any objection.
At this point the Bernie count goes up from 223 to 224 because some guy off camera says "you didn't count me". Second breach of protocol! Fraud! Also, the guy who said this seems to be sitting at that table, raising the troubling possibility that he was the same "table guy" who had already raised Bernie's count from 222 to 223. Fraud!
Then comes the part that Bernie fans flip out about. A Bernie person comes up and asks "you didn't just count the new people, you counted everyone, right?" And the Hillary counter answered "yes." What she obviously meant is that "everyone has now been counted." This is also what the other Bernie leadership person, who had been standing there the whole time and heard about the two-part counting process understood, because she nodded in agreement -- everyone was now counted. As did the guy running the whole operation, who was also there the whole time. But Bernie fans insist that this was intentional deception on the part of a sneaky Clinton operative taking direction from Mordor itself.
Then comes the fun part. After blatantly inflating the Bernie vote count by 2 people in violation of protocol, and in full view of the camera, the Bernie counter decides to complain. She's joined by another woman and a beardy Buddy Holly glasses guy. The whole dispute is that the Bernie people want the Hillary people to do a whole new count, that way Hillary supporters who didn't want to stay for another hour wouldn't get their votes counted. Yay democracy!
After a few minutes, the Bernie people finally understood that there was a procedure in place to challenge the results and demand a recount. That was a big step -- for a while it seemed like this piece of information wouldn't be able to penetrate their shield of furiousness. At the end of it all, there were three people missing, people who somehow got lost in the utter chaos, possibly left, there was speculation about a bathroom, who knows. The three votes wouldn't have tipped the election, but undeterred by the pointlessness of it all, a Bernie fan demanded a recount.
The recount motion was met with sighs from the weary crowd. The director asked for a second, and got one, and only one, from a woman whose voice sounded suspiciously like the person who made the motion in the first place. Then, according to procedure, there was a majority vote to determine if there would be a recount, which lost by what appears to be about 95%-5% margin (6:37), with Bernie and Hillary supporters alike not wanting to waste another minute to placate the conspiratorial minds of a handful of Bernie fans.
Enjoy!
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)The Hillary people did not do a recount after the O'M people and the undecideds were added.
So we never will actually know the final number.
I understand - just like Florida, Bush supporters accepted those results as well.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)and nodding the whole time, the count was accurate and above-board. The only breach of protocol I witnessed was Bernie's person counting people who didn't have their hands up, and possibly counting the table guy twice. But I'll chalk that up to the chaos, along with the three missing votes that wouldn't have changed the outcome.
If this is the best election conspiracy that Bernie fans can come up with, they need a new creative director.
jillan
(39,451 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)There was no hint of fraud. The Bernie woman agreed to the way that the count of O'Malley people was done, like I said, as evidenced by her nodding the whole time. Calling the two-step counting method fraud is silly.
Response to jillan (Reply #2)
brooklynite This message was self-deleted by its author.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)Hand counting of people is always difficult. That's why Minnesota uses a simple paper ballot system. People write the name of the candidate they support on a piece of paper, then fold it. Then, a group elected by the caucus counts the votes, right there in public. As is typical in ballot counting, it's a two-pass system. If there are discrepancies, the ballots are counted again until the two passes agree. It's more precise than Iowa's head-count system, but that's because Minnesota records the actual voting numbers, instead of simply voting for delegates from the groups. Delegates are elected in our precinct caucuses, but it is the votes of the caucus-goers that matter at the point delegates to the state and national convention are selected.
Delegates at the precinct level are chosen for the state Senate district convention, which deals primarily with candidates for state legislative and other offices. They don't do anything about the presidential campaign, except to hold a walking caucus, similar to Iowas to choose delegates for the congressional district convention, where the presidential issue is considered in selecting delegates to the state convention.
Every caucus state does it differently.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Fox News ran with this early.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)We horrible, evil, communist Bernie fans were complaining about it on caucus night.
Fox News shows it 2 days later.
Then you get to work claiming Fox News was the driver.
Fucking Internet and its timestamps!!
DanTex
(20,709 posts)are on video.
But, yeah, FOX News ran with this, one of the many things that they have in common with Bernie fans. I'm sure Bernie fans got there first, if that matters to you. Maybe FOX even got the idea to run with this from Bernie fans. Who knows?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Your position was Fox News was driving a fake controversy. Then that whole "directionality of time" thing became a problem.
Then your position was that the literal words in the video were not right, and that you need to explain what they really meant.
For the people who claim to understand how politics works, you guys are doing a really, really awful job. Just say "It wouldn't change the result" and dismiss it. The more you try to "explain what they really meant", the more attention you draw to the video. Because every time you try to spin what they really meant, you make more people watch the video and listen to the literal words in it. Not your personal interpretation of the words. You want to drive people away from the video. Not towards it.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)If your position is on the video, why did you feel the need to fabricate a quote in order to make your case? Could it be that anyone who simply watches the video without changing the words realizes that the allegations of fraud are ludicrous?
Hmmm...
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The video shows the Clinton captain lied.
Would that change the result? Probably not. That just makes it extra-stupid to lie. And you guys constantly driving people towards the video is even dumber.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)quote, there isn't any lying.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)But the bro acolytes just won't let it go.
Bernie is a sore loser, we all get that now.
Fox Resorts To Bogus "Voter Fraud" Claims To Downplay Clinton Caucus Victory
Blog February 3, 2016 12:18 PM EST TIMOTHY JOHNSON
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/02/03/fox-resorts-to-bogus-voter-fraud-claims-to-down/208352
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Fucking directionality of time. Always screws up a good "Fox News did it!!!" dismissal.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)And similar things are often seen from campaigns that have been caught taking part in highly unethical activity. Sanders campaign was rightfully hit hard after they were caught stealing data. Multiple people had to be fired after the revelation. This is just an attempt to muddy the waters by the Sanders campaign. Sanders is a politician first. A pretty shrewd one that and he has carved out his own niche at that. That niche loves these types of allegations. Red meat.
Gothmog
(145,619 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)system is even in place. Anywhere.
Obviously I was joking about the allegations of fraud on Bernie's behalf, but all this hoopla about what is at worst an honest mistake that had no effect on the outcome and that 95% or so of caucusers didn't think warranted a recount is nuts.