The genie will not go back in the bottle now. Thank you, Bernie.

[Bonobo]

However things work out, Bernie Sanders has done an incredible thing for all of us Democrats, even those unwilling to support him over Hillary. He has given us the opportunity to show the collective strength of the real Progressive movement and that genie will not be put back in the bottle.

Even if the Establishment (yes, Virginia, there IS an Establishment) manages to keep the lid on for this cycle, it will surely escape in many other forms now that it is aware of its own power.

Facing the facts, we must admit clearly that the power of the Bernie movement is not in Bernie himself but in what he represents.

This is not quite the same for Hillary. People are either voting for or against her, liking her or disliking her in relatively equal numbers. No, Bernie's power is the power of the people that are supporting him, the ever-increasing demand to change things from the current clearly abusive and unequal state of things. The idea that we cannot continue on the road on which we are traveling -the same road that Hillary will drive on (albeit the middle as opposed to the right lane)

Bernie is an old man, yes. He is a man with a strong identifying accent, he can appear grumpy to some because of his iron convictions and refusal to bend to corruption -and that is why the movement has coalesced behind him. Not because he stood up and formed it, but because he was willing to stand up and REPRESENT it. In other words, this movement exists separately from him and will continue to grow in strength. There is no such movement or energy around Hillary and that, ultimately, is why I find her a poor choice.

In any case, we have been given the gift of having our voice amplified by the courage of Bernie Sanders. And now that our voice has been heard, that it has been shown to be a major force that can turn aside all expectations, it can no longer be ignored.

However things work out, we will remember what is driving this energy, the simple demand to create a better society -one which reflects the bedrock principles of fairness and equality (no, not just the typical politician's slogan for such, but the actual reality of it)

We are not going back into the shadows that we were driven in by the right-leaning Democratic party that emerged in the 90's out of the necessity to defeat the Reagans and their political offspring. We remember who we are now and if we don't take this one, we sure as hell have woken and now we are hungry.

We are a force.

[thereismore]

1. I agree. This movement is Occupy in its essence. nt

[Betty Karlson]

33. Occupy and a bit more, maybe.

Occupy has merged with a few more anti-establishment sentiments to form this movement.

[rhett o rick]

39. Bernie is the leader Occupy never had. While I loved the concept of Occupy not

everyone got it. Millions are starting to get it now. We must continue the momentum.

[tk2kewl]

2. Yes! WE are a Super PAC with no equal!

We, not me!

[sadoldgirl]

4. If the movement wants to keep going,

- and it is far more than Occupy - then the millennials and
independents have to show up at the local Dem meetings
to slowly and surely replace the established power groups.

It also means calling and showing up at the offices of
the present elected officials to protest their votes, like
the TPP or TSIA for instance.

The question remains will they make these efforts?

[Bonobo]

5. Poverty is one of the most de-motivating and de-energizing things.

When your life is consumed with fear and anxiety of how to make it month to month, it is hard to summon the time or energy to consistently be politically active.

That is a luxury afforded by money -time.

That is why this movement does not maintain a consistently active appearance and rises and falls. It is latent.

It does not have an established structure -another thing bought by money (offices, lawyers, marketers, workers, commercials, etc.)

But it is latent and ever-present and now we know it is fucking big.

[dreamnightwind]

6. Excellent points

I think Bernie needs to either modify the progressive caucus (he started it but I am not sure if he has the power to modify it) to allow only candidates going forward who run without accepting corporate donations. If he can't do that, maybe a new caucus or a new party is needed. Hopefully it can be done within our party, since there are huge barriers to creating a viable third party.

However it is done, I think learing how to elect candidates without corporate money is the key to getting anywhere. Bernie has gone a long way toward accomplishing that, let's not waste the effort.

[jillan]

15. I did not know that about Bernie being one of the people that established the Progressive Caucus!

Thanks for enlightening me - now I love him even more....

[dreamnightwind]

37. Yes, he is actually the progressive who gets things done

unlike his Democratic opponent, who might get things done with Republicans, but I wouldn't expect for them to be progressive things.

That being said, the Congressional Progressive Caucus may lean left, but most all of its members are still beholden to large corporate donors, and their votes on progressive issues that challenge powerful interests are unreliable at best. It could be a vehicle for real change, but IMHO they'd need to formalize some things such as where members are allowed to get money from. Or they could setup their own people's crowd-funding mechanism to allow members to get campaign money from there instead of from corporations.

[sadoldgirl]

8. I understand all of that, but unless people

are willing to sacrifice the time and effort to
"undermine" even their local power structure
I cannot see it succeeding.

A lot of people may be tired from overwork, but
I also see many who prefer their movies and
other sports events to escape the daily problems.

It is that escapism that leads to failure of any
movement. And our culture promotes it 24/7.

[Kentonio]

35. Bread and circuses

[warrprayer]

24. BRAVO

You nailed it down.

[HereSince1628]

7. yep n/t

[jalan48]

9. You got it. It's going to take a hell of a lot of effort to make the people go back to sleep.

Hopefully they don't have another 9/11 up their sleeves to change the narrative back to fear and terror.

[Blue_Tires]

10. Maybe someday I'll get a solid, coherent explanation

of who exactly "the establishment" are, and why me and my candidate aren't part of "the establishment", but you and your candidate certainly are...

Every time I hear someone ranting about "the establishment", I ask that person who they are, and I get a different answer every time...

[Bonobo]

12. The fact that different people answer differently is certainly no reason to doubt

that there exists an entrenched group of people and organizations and institutions that who receive benefits from the status quo, and wield enough political power and societal influence to continue the existence of that status quo and who strive to do so.

Actually, I think doubting that that exists is rather weird and is either the result of lack of education, experience or thinking, or perhaps willful blindness.

It would be interesting and instructive to speak to such a person face to face to see the source of their naivete.

[Blue_Tires]

41. I'm not doubting that it exists -- Don't put words in my mouth and spare me the fucking insults

I'm asking where the goddamned line is drawn (since I can't get any consensus even though everyone is cocksure), and how people are supposed to win presidential elections with no help from "the establishment" whatsoever... Since by definition even working with the establishment makes YOU establishment by definition...

[Bonobo]

46. Glad to hear you not doubt it exists.

So what the Establishment means is different to different people, we can agree on that.

It seems we can also agree that it exists in some form -though we cannot get everyone to agree on the definition.

So, what is the Establishment to YOU, Blue_Tires? That seems a decent enough question since you seem to want others definitions. You agree it exists, so perhaps you may be able to explain your POV on it.

Whatever one's definition though, it seems foolish to deny that Hillary is more deeply indebted or dependent on the money from them. Perhaps you do not agree and that is where you would choose to argue, I don't know.

But I do think your initial attempt was to imply that since there is no CLEAR definition, than it is a bogus concept. It is not, as you seem to agree.

So then the question becomes "If it exists, what is to be done with it."

[Blue_Tires]

47. What is "the establishment" to me?

What does it matter?

1. DUers haven't given a shit about hearing my opinion in a very long time

2. I'm not one of the DUers slapping the "establishment" label on everything and everybody except myself...

[Bonobo]

49. LOL

You asked what others thought it was.

You admitted there was such a thing.

Now, you took your ball and are going back home.

[Blue_Tires]

50. I'm not fucking going anywhere... You don't scare me

And I've already explained what I believe the "establishment" is in other threads...

Cliff's Notes Version: It's everybody.

If I thought you were genuinely interested in my analysis I'd happily expound, and we could kick the idea around for awhile like DU used to do in the old days... But unfortunately it's 2016, it's primary season, it's Monday, I got 2.5 hours of sleep last night, and I know your true motivation is more about fucking with me for the sake of fucking with me (and I don't know why you'd do that, since you're aware of how unpleasant I can become when motivated)...

[cali]

13. It shouldn't really need an explanation

Let me put it this way: The Democratic party belongs to the Clintons in a very concrete way. Hillary is the definition of any insider. Yes, the Party was Obama's for the past 7 years; he wrested it from them, but right now, this is Hillary's party again in a political sense. Hillary has always made whatever adjustments needed to advance her political career. Bernie is not part of the D.C. elite.

[Blue_Tires]

40. So why would Bernie join the Democratic Party

and wrestle with all the internal power struggles and baggage that come with it? He'd have a lot more leeway running as an independent, would he not?

[ablamj]

43. But as an Independent

he would have zero chance of winning...

[scottie55]

16. "The Establishment" Laid Out

Best as I can explain.

"When Bernie mentioned "the establishment" and "got in trouble" it got me thinking. What is "the establishment" anyway?

It is the entire pay to play system. Our government. From the lobbyists, and the corporations who hire them, to the politicians hoping to become lobbyists, or go straight into cushy corporate jobs when they leave office. This includes the politician's families too. Politicians who know if they give corporations enough handouts they will be richly rewarded with jobs, security, or simply getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for "speeches" when they leave office. Campaign contributions come to mind too.
"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511053874

There is more....

[november3rd]

27. The Establishment

Is the a priori organizations with capital and enough money to hire lobbyists.

[Blue_Tires]

42. You mean like Planned Parenthood? The NAACP? The ACLU?

The Sierra Club? PETA? Because they've all got paid lobbyists...

[TIME TO PANIC]

11. K & R !

No turning back now!

[zentrum]

14. Yes. No matter

….what happens, he's already won huge victories for the people.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

17. When I hear from people in other countries

they can see what is going on. They tell me Hillary and the republicans are wrong for this country. We have much work to do.

[mountain grammy]

18. Yes, we are a force. The people are always a force.

[hifiguy]

19. And the DINOs better be buying brown trousers. nt

[Uncle Joe]

20. Kicked and recommended!

Thanks for the thread, Bonobo.

[californiabernin]

21. American demographics are changing, and Americans are waking up to the lies and corruption.

The future is on our side.

[KingCharlemagne]

22. We ARE the 99% (little Shoutout to my former

Occupy comrades

[cantbeserious]

23. When We Stand Together - No Citizen Need Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go

eom

[november3rd]

25. The Movement Is Everything

Bernie has demonstrated that Movement for Justice and Equality can confront the Establishment, regardless of what Paul Krugman, the Washington Post, the New York Times and the Executive Boards of the big unions say.

The People are the Power, if we all stand together and say, "Enough is Enough!'

[Cassiopeia]

26. I think we were awoken in 08

only to be squandered and steered back towards that right lane.

In 2012, we had no other option to steer back toward the left, but at least we could keep ourselves out of the breakdown lane for the most part.

This year I think we will have even better turnout and vote Bernie as we try once again to unite behind change. Kicking and screaming we will drag the hawks and pragmatists into the 21st century and not only steer back into that left lane, but rebuild it as we do so.

[ChiciB1]

28. And We Say Unto Those Who Have Not Joined Us...

Come... SEE THE LIGHT, it's rising and we must follow and be shown "the way!" And I ain't even religious anymore!!

[mahina]

29. K and standing O.

Mahalo Bonobo.

I don't see a lot of posts here from you but those I do, I want to print on a flag and wave.

Aloha no.

[tex-wyo-dem]

30. Big fucking K&R!!!

Perfectly said, Bonobo!

This movement IS the political revolution that Bernie talks about at every stump speach. And he has stated emphatically that no matter how this nomination battle turns out, the movement must and will carry on and be a force for positive change.

Thank you, Bonobo, for the great OP!

[WiffenPoof]

31. Excellent Piece

I have actually been meaning to address the fact that there is no way that we will go back to politics as usual because of Bernie and his campaign. It almost doesn't matter the results of the primaries. We have come to realize that there are a lot more of us out there than we previously thought.

[senz]

32. This is what Bernie wanted when he started it

so he's already won that much.

Beautifully written, Bonobo.

[mhatrw]

34. Use the force, Bernie!

[Recursion]

36. I really hope that you haven't read the actual Ala'addiin story

Because the irony is just too much at this point...

[99Forever]

38. Yes yes yes. We will not be denied.

Feel the Bern

[Attorney in Texas]

44. k+r

[Dont call me Shirley]

45. A Progressive Force. May The Progressive Force be with us!

[Robbins]

48. Sorry

If bernie doesn't win yes the genie is put back In bottle.the corporists have put down the revolt In Democratic party.

anything short of bernie winning is defeat.that means choice is between clinton and republican.many lose with that choice.

[randome]

51. The 'corporatists'? How about the will of the voting public? Or don't they count?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[grntuscarora]

52. K&R

nt