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[Name removed]

[BlueMTexpat]

1. Welcome to DU!

Please don't be discouraged by the swarm that will likely descend upon your OP.

[paleotn]

12. Exactly....

...there's a few here who don't seem to mind the current economic debacle the majority of Americans find themselves in. I guess some are making a buck off it, so why support any meaningful change. Not in there best interests, I suppose. Just some establishment approved window dressing is in order to make the plebs think Hill is actually helping them, when in reality she's just a power hungry grifter like Bill.

[murielm99]

2. K&R!

[Betty Karlson]

3. Fantasy is: pretending the 20th century didn't end

and campaigning as if the status quo is sustainable. Fantasy, therefore, is supporting Clinton.

Reality is that this country needs a massive overhaul - and the only two candidates offering that are Martin O'Malley and Bernie Sanders.

[Human101948]

4. List of accomplishments: Destroyed Iraq...check! Destroyed Libya...check! Collected millions from

Wall Street...check! What else can we look forward to?

[Helen Borg]

5. If it's supposed to take so long...

Then it is time to start right away... No?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

9. Abolishing slavery was a big overhaul, too.

Glad we didn't have a bunch of defeatists back in the day.

[Empowerer]

33. Read your history

Lincoln freed the slaves incrementally, not in one fell swoop.

And he didn't make them citizens or give them the right to vote - that was done incrementally over several years. Lincoln knew just how far he could go and how far he couldn't go within the environment in which he was operating. I suspect that Sanders knows that too, but like the pragmatic politician that he really is, he's just not saying so.

So, while the "Thank God you weren't around when Lincoln freed the slaves" argument sounds good, it's useless for making the point you're trying to make since it actually proves the opposite.

[secondwind]

17. amen!

[99Forever]

6. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511095658

[blackspade]

7. Another one of these OPs......

This reality vs fantasy canard is on it's tenth rinse and repeat cycle.

[oasis]

16. The makeup of SCOTUS is no fantasy. Scalia's power can

be enhanced in the next few years by a GOP administration.

[smiley]

22. Great point!

Which is why Hillary shouldn't be the next nominee. She is already being destroyed in the media. Imagine if she where the nominee? That would be handing the election to the GOP.

[oasis]

26. Reclassified e-mails? Gimme a break. The media needs

to keep Bernie afloat in order to prolong the horse race.

[kracer20]

29. Hardly, Bernie got where he is WITHOUT the media.

It is message boards like this and social media that got him the poll numbers needed to even make it close. The media was mostly silent about anything Bernie (other than he is popular, but can't possibly win) up until just a month or so ago.

To think they are propping him up to make it close is quite a stretch.

[oasis]

32. So the media would rather not have a horse race?

An early exit by Bernie means millions in ad revenue lost.

[smiley]

37. The media barely mentions Bernie

They got nothing on him but the so-called dirty word "socialist"

[Fantastic Anarchist]

8. Fantasy that Hillary will tell the truth in my near future?

[SamKnause]

10. Reality versus fantasy.

Reality for Hillary and her supporters.

Everything we need to accomplish is too hard.

I have a lot of experience.

I have proven time and time again that I have very poor judgment.

Defeatist attitude and policies.


Fantasy for Bernie supporters.

We know the fight is going to be hard.

We willingly accept that challenge and will fight hard.

I have a lot of experience.

I have proven time and time again that I have very good judgment.

Optimistic attitude and policies.

[Ed Suspicious]

11. Hillary: Extremely practiced at losing.

[farleftlib]

23. + 1

I know what challenges lie ahead and I'm still optimistic that we can meet and surpass them.

[Locrian]

27. you forgot some more "realities"

The stock market is fixed
We have to spend money on more wars
Healthcare is too expensive to spend money on
Millions from big banks in speech fees don't influence politics

[delrem]

13. I see it every day. I'm Canadian.

When I think about giving up the universal single-payer system that I enjoy, for the US system, I laugh.
I just laugh.
Not even the most extreme conservative party in Canada would dare openly attack our universal single-payer system.
That's a fact.

I hear that a whole shitload of Dems support the idea of some kind of universal single-payer system for the USA.
Don't you deny that to be true!

So maybe this guy is playing a mindfucking game, comparing "reality vs. fantasy", since he can't find a way to pull his head from his ass.

[Hortensis]

14. "Predicting imminent indictment for 20 years."

I wonder just how many berners here have been among those hoping for Hillary's indictment for 2 decades. Now yet again crossing their fingers that Hillary will magically be whisked off to a Federal pen in time to save Bernie's candidacy. (Might as well laugh. We can assume by now that they're not just slow learners.)

Good piece, thanks. I do disagree with the thoughts on single payer. We already have a number of very large single payer systems in place. Eventually expanding one as an OPTION or using one as a template seems extremely likely to me -- to the point of inevitability. The option for those who want it is all that is needed. Eventually almost everyone would choose it anyway.

[Gary 50]

35. I wonder just how many Berners here have been among those hoping for Hillary's indictment for two

decades? I'd guess the answer would be just about zero. And the number of Berners crossing their fingers that Hillary will be whisked off to a federal pen? That would be about zero also. But the number of us who wish she'd be whisked off to a retirement home is probably near 100 percent. And by the way Bernies candidacy doesn't need saving. Hillary's does. Bernies not under investigation. Hillary is. Bernie doesn't need to explain his repeated bad judgment. Hillary does.

[mmonk]

15. Reality is one cannot serve two masters. There will be

an expiration date sooner or later. To think not is the fantasy.

[secondwind]

18. Bernie will not give us single payer, but he will put us on the path TO single payer.. it's time to

GET TO WORK!

[Uponthegears]

19. You forgot part of his resume

He and Joe Conason co-authored The Hunting of the President: The 10 Year Campaign to Destroy Bill and Hillary Clinton

[yourout]

20. There was a day when landing on the moon was a fantasy.

Compared to that single payer should be a walk in the park.

[Helen Borg]

30. Are you kidding? Going to the moon?

That is fucking impossible! Stop conjuring up pies in the sky!

[Cowpunk]

21. Funny that your biography of Lyons should ignore his most famous work

Lyons literally wrote the book on defending the Clintons from the right wing attack machine. Nothing wrong with that, but taken with his strong Arkansas ties, it does make one wonder if he is not the most objective observer.

[Nanjeanne]

24. Aren't we lucky

LGBT groups didn't believe gay marriage was a fantasy? Or the brave people who fought for civil rights. Or woman wanting the vote. Or getting rid of Don't Ask Don't Tell. Or ending the Vietnam War. Or Getting Mediare passed.

But someone named Gene Lyons says give up. So I guess that's the lesson we should teach our children. Sheesh. Not me.

[madfloridian]

25. Fantasy is believing you can invade a country and not have serious repercussions.

Fantasy is believing you can keep raising the limit on H1B visas and there won't be any layoffs.

I can not believe all of Hillary's surrogates trying to dash any hopes for any change in the future.

There's not been a really strong movement like this in my lifetime. Her campaign can NOT tolerate hopes and dreams.

[Alfresco]

28. Great read, thanks.

[Le Taz Hot]

31. And . . .

another newbie posting anti-Sanders/pro-Hillary shit via hit-and-run.

They're comin' out of the woodwork, folks.

[Enthusiast]

34. Completely unrecommended because Gene Lyons is a fool.

[EndElectoral]

36. See it more as a battle between acquiescence and vision.