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Sun Apr 22, 2012, 04:18 PM

 

Please help me on this.

After watching the previous post entitled “Is there a God”, I started thinking about a few things. Among them was the virgin birth of Jesus.

If Mary conceived without a man, wouldn’t that mean that there would only one set of DNA involved in the now fertile egg (Mary’s)?

If this was the case, wouldn’t Jesus have been a clone of Mary? If Jesus was a clone of Mary, wouldn’t Jesus have to have been born a female?

Does this line of thought sound logical, or should I just lay off the medical brownies while reading this group???

Thanks in advance for your responses (in case this post even merits a response.)

17 replies, 1854 views

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Arrow 17 replies Author Time Post
Reply Please help me on this. (Original post)
Yavapai Apr 2012 OP
laconicsax Apr 2012 #1
Ron Obvious Apr 2012 #2
Warren Stupidity Apr 2012 #3
mr blur Apr 2012 #5
zbdent Apr 2012 #4
Curmudgeoness Apr 2012 #6
laconicsax Apr 2012 #7
zbdent Apr 2012 #9
tdb63 Apr 2012 #12
laconicsax Apr 2012 #15
Curmudgeoness Apr 2012 #8
Iggo Apr 2012 #10
Ian David Apr 2012 #11
AlbertCat Apr 2012 #13
Yavapai Apr 2012 #16
RebelOne Apr 2012 #14
Bradical79 Apr 2012 #17

Response to Yavapai (Original post)

Sun Apr 22, 2012, 04:24 PM

1. That's about right...

 

Parthenogenesis results in a clone of the mother.

If Jesus had no biological dad, she was a clone of her mother.

But, since Jesus wasn't a real person, it doesn't really matter.

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Response to laconicsax (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 22, 2012, 04:36 PM

2. Haploid

I believe an old joke on talk.origins referred to the 'H' in Jesus H. Christ as 'Haploid'.

I don't know. This is a bit like trying to disprove Santa's sleigh using physics to me. We have two mostly non-overlapping camps here who won't be convinced by arguments made in the sphere of the other side's reality.

In other words, if you're trying to use science and reason to disprove people's religious notions, your chance of success is nearly exactly the same as a religious believer's chance of success in convincing a non-believer through appeal to faith.

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Response to Yavapai (Original post)

Sun Apr 22, 2012, 04:39 PM

3. In wakadoodle world anything can happen.

Virgin Birth is a myth-meme that occurs frequently in various religions. As the gods can do anything, a virgin birth can produce a male child from a female egg. Your mistake is viewing nonsense through a rational lens. Santa can't fit down a chimney either. The cow could not possibly jump over the moon.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #3)

Sun Apr 22, 2012, 05:49 PM

5. "viewing nonsense through a rational lens."

That would be progress for some of the theists around here.

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Response to Yavapai (Original post)

Sun Apr 22, 2012, 04:50 PM

4. as I understand it, the term "Virgin Birth" really was supposed to mean

that Jesus was born without the stigma of "original sin" ...

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Response to zbdent (Reply #4)

Sun Apr 22, 2012, 07:37 PM

6. No, virgin birth is supposed to mean virgin birth.

All Christian religions that I know considered Mary a virgin at the time she got pregnant.

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Response to zbdent (Reply #4)

Sun Apr 22, 2012, 07:40 PM

7. No, that was because of Mary's immaculate conception.

 

She was born free of original sin.

Virgin birth had to do with Mary getting pregnant without having sex. It was a routine miracle in contemporary religions.

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Response to laconicsax (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 23, 2012, 09:07 AM

9. Ah, you got the right one that I was thinking ...

It wasn't Jesus who was born without original sin, it was Mary.

My error ... got that mixed up.

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Response to laconicsax (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 23, 2012, 11:18 AM

12. Also, Mary was also only 12 or 13 years old.

Mary was born free of sin due to her mothers immaculate conception of Mary. Mary's mother was barren when she gave birth to Mary. But, Mary was only 12 or 13 years old when she was impregnated. Yahweh was abit of a ped as we all know.

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Response to tdb63 (Reply #12)

Mon Apr 23, 2012, 03:07 PM

15. Technically, it was the Holy Ghost who did it.

 

Now, while apologists have come up with all sorts of excuses for why impregnating a 13-year-old against her will isn't rape, impregnating a 13-year-old against her will is rape.

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Response to Yavapai (Original post)

Sun Apr 22, 2012, 07:42 PM

8. In real life, what you say makes sense.

But.....if "God" created everything, including humans and DNA, it would be a piece of cake for him to "create" a properly fertilized egg. You just don't get it. This is how it goes: God is a male figure. God impregnated Mary. The fertilized egg is "perfect". End of discussion.

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Response to Yavapai (Original post)

Mon Apr 23, 2012, 10:26 AM

10. No, because god is magic and science is stupid.

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Response to Yavapai (Original post)


Response to Yavapai (Original post)

Mon Apr 23, 2012, 01:42 PM

13. Mary had it made!

Sure, she had to watch he son get crucified, but not only did she get to avoid icky sex with a hairy man, she didn't even have to die! She just shot up into heaven...whooosh!
(and I always thought "Our Lady of the Assumption" just meant she said to Joseph, "Well, I assume it's god's....")

In the Mahabharata, Kunti gives birth to 3 sons! No, 4 sons! and her virginity remains intact! But alas, she burns to death in a forest fire. Mary didn't even have to go thru something like that.


Next up:

Did Adam & Eve have belly buttons?

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #13)

Mon Apr 23, 2012, 09:19 PM

16. Did Adam & Eve have belly buttons?

 

Of course they did, but they only were able harvest lint from them after they became aware that they were ashamed from being naked...

...or something like that.

First was Adam, then came Eve. They produced Cain the Able. Then Cain slew Able. That would make the world population to be a total of three, right? Then Cain got married. Where the fuck did his wife come from?????????????

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Response to Yavapai (Original post)

Mon Apr 23, 2012, 03:05 PM

14. Many years ago, I read an article about virgin births

and it was always female babies. I don't remember the source, but it was interesting.

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Response to Yavapai (Original post)

Tue Apr 24, 2012, 12:06 PM

17. Two problems with your post...

The first is that the stories in the scriptures may have been misinterpreted and mistranslated for quite awhile. The evidence for Mary even being considered a virgin as we think of a virgin at the time these were written is pretty weak. Other than it only being mentioned in two of the gospels, virginity was a more inclusive trait at the time. Someone who was a virgin had as much to do with their perceived ability to concieve as it did with the actual not having had sex. A girl who was thought to have not reached a stage where she could conceive of child was considered a virgin regardless of if she had had sex or been raped. Also, a woman who was thought to be to old to conceive could be considered a "virgin" too. I read a great book on the history of Christianity that had mentioned misinterpretations of Mary's virginity and lack of real evidence in scripture supporting the story, but unfortunately I accidentally ruined the book and have yet to buy another copy :-P Here's the first decent link I found though:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/dec/16/religion.commentisfree

The second thing wrong with your post is that the God most Christians believe in is all powerful and not confined to our laws of physics or understanding of reality. In other words, such a being could have made Jesus look like Bugs Bunny, simply be controlling our every thought and emotion for fun, or have willed our entire universe into being a few minutes ago creating false memories and histories for everyone alive. In fact, no crazy religious idea regardless of if its written in a book or made up on the spot would be more implausible than any other since a being is involved that can do whatever the fuck it wants. Look up "Flying Spaghetti Monster"

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