Here to Confess

[angrychair]

Soooo, I've given this a lot of thought and decided it needed to be said "out loud" as it were. Its not that I just decided I was an atheist just that I decided I needed to say it. Though I am reasonably sure certain family members suspect it. Certain friends suspect it. I've never just said it. Most of my family and friends are "believers" and children are involved in Boy Scouts, so my position on this would be uncomfortable for a lot of people, at best, and down right awkward to be certain. I don't want to seem rude or belittling to my friends and family in regards to their belief system, though I find everything about Christianity or any other religious system, to be ignorant and silly. I believe it one of the single greatest factors that inhibits humanity's ability to progress technologically and socially. I believe this to the core of my being. My stance is non-negotiable.

One of the other things is that I have children that participate in Boy Scouting. For all its faults, there is a lot of positive aspects of Scouting. In the Troops I have associated with at least, it has never been about LGBT or religion. It has always been about the boys. Unfortunately, the "A Scout is Reverent" is taken as a "Scout must love Jesus" pledge. That is not BSA's official stance on the subject and it states so in the Boy Scout Handbook. To date, I go along to get along. I go through the motions and say the right things. I say to myself "none of it matters anyway, so what do I care that I play pretend along with them". I cannot help but feel I am being intellectually dishonest and feeling that I am perpetuating a belief system that is harmful to society.

Why does that matter? I need advice as to how to manage my relationships with my family, friends and co-workers in a way that remains respectful but doesn't force me to go through the motions and perpetuate the impression that I share their beliefs?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[dangin]

1. Warnings

I was where you are now back in 1987.

Good luck with this process. You can't let your lack of faith make you uncomfortable. It's not disrespectful to them that you don't believe.

When I run across a crazy Xian these days I try to encourage them to try to find a sense of humor about how fast their faith is dying. Well, how fast it's clout is dying.

But I'm not trying to keep friends. Good luck.

[LostOne4Ever]

2. I am in very similar situation myself

So I have no idea how to advise you.

I think it probably most important to live your life in a way that you can be proud when you look back in reflection. It sounds to me as if this is burning inside of you, and It probably would be for the best to just be honest with everyone. No one has to live with the life you lead but you, so I think its important that you live that life the way you want.

If your family really care about you, if your friends really are your friends, then they should understand. If not, then now that all pretense has been stripped away you know what those people really think of you. Are friends who would abandon you for simply disagreeing really friends? Are family who would abandon their own blood really worth have relationships with?

I guess only you can answer those questions.

For those who do stick with you, I would say to return the same loyalty to them as they have shown to you. I think you should be honest about what you think (no matter how much they dislike hearing it) but also polite and diplomatic in how you tell them.

As for the scouts I imagine you should talk with your children about how you feel about the scouts. But do keep in mind there are alternatives and it is my understanding that depending on the unit sometimes they let things fly.

Doing a quick search I found this alternative and a site talking about scouting and inclusion. I don't know if this will help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Fire
http://www.campfire.org/

http://www.scoutingforall.org

I sincerely wish you well with whatever you decide.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

3. Welcome...

I was in your position many years ago. Never involved in scouting though, that does put a different spin on it. I owned my own carpet cleaning company. People shouldn't have but sometime did, ask about religion. My customers and I talked a great deal. All part of my companies "experience", we tried to be friends not so much contractor and client. Anyway, calling myself an atheist to some garnered responses from "come to my church, it's really inclusive" to "well I'll pray for you" and some others I'd rather not get into.

I solved the problem by saying I was a "Freethinker", one who does not recognize the dogma laid out by any religion. Don't go into particulars, just let it be. Research freethinking a little online, there are plenty of sites pick one or two you're comfortable with.

Sometimes saying the word atheist just pisses Christians off. No sense going there. Plus you are being very honest. Great balance.

Good luck.

[RussBLib]

4. Everyone I know knows I am an atheist

I never hesitate to say things to my co-workers like..."Well, that's fine, but as an atheist, I don't do those kinds of things." I don't outright call my believing co-workers idiots, although many of them truly are. Just state your case and move on. Most won't challenge it.

You are in a much different family environment than I am. Having no kids, and not associating much with people that do, I can't relate very well to your situation. But I've made my non-belief known to my family members and neighbors, and no one challenges me on it.

I think that if you basically make your views known but do not openly assault family members, friends, or co-workers about their lazy or silly beliefs, they will usually accept it as just being a part of you. Those that don't can just go to hell, so to speak.

Probably not very helpful for you, but good luck, and stand your ground.

[Brainstormy]

5. I feel your pain

Or at least your discomfort. Coming out as an atheist to family and friends can be difficult. And, as you pointed out, that feeling of intellectual dishonesty can be awful in the day to day decisions we make to get along. I'd say you've got to pick your battles and also be sensitive to the timing. The Thanksgiving dinner table is probably not the best place to take a big rhetorical stand. Not a good idea maybe to negatively influence a jury by insisting you'd rather not swear on a bible. The Scouting thing is a good example. Our society is so saturated with religion that it's impossible sometimes not to throw the beneficial baby out with the mythological bathwater. Personally, I alienated some of my family and friends by being too bombastic and militant in the beginning. As another poster has acknowledged, no matter what happens you're likely to lose some relationships, but we don't have to strain things unnecessarily with too much "missionary" zeal. This was certainly a mistake I made.

It will all shake out, particularly as you become more comfortable with having really let go of religious pretenses. Seek out the like-minded and read the good atheist and agnostic thinkers. If for nothing else to confirm your own sanity in a demon-haunted world. Once the rose colored glasses are off, there's no turning back anyway. But it does get easier.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. you do not need to be outspoken with friends and coworkers

but I do think you have an ethical responsibility to be forthright with your immediate family. I also strongly believe in not tolerating bigotry in any form, even at the cost of friendship, even if it upsets your coworkers, so I don't think you need to spontaneously discuss your lack of belief at work, for example, but when confronted with religious bigotry, inaction and silence is, in my opinion, ethically compromised.

[Warpy]

7. Just be very careful

There are very good reasons we often hide in that "I'm just not religious" closet, especially if we are women and especially at work.

Just knowing sane people who are atheists threatens a lot of people at the core of their beings. Their stance is non negotiable, too.

As for friends and family, you'll have to figure out which ones are safe and which ones are not.

I also know a lot of atheist kids who had secular scout troops and loved it. Just be aware that if the leader retires and is replaced by some thumper your kids will probably be made very uncomfortable, whether he knows they're atheist or not.

I don't think I ever came out to my parents, religion was always a sore point with them. At the end, they were both unbelievers, having come to the same conclusions in a lot more time than I took to reach them. I was grateful because they died unafraid of judgment and hell. They just knew I didn't believe a word of it and found using it like an Irish social club wanting.

[Curmudgeoness]

8. The hardest part is accepting the "atheist" title.

It took me a long time to actually say the word out loud...I always just said that I was "turned off by religion" or didn't "believe in god" or was "on the fence about whether god existed". It was easier and it didn't seem to be treated like a slap in the face to believers. I ran from the word "atheist", and that was dishonest but also made it easier on me.

My suggestion to you at this point in your life, since you seem to have young children, is to keep this to yourself----at least the "atheist" part. I know, I know, it is deceptive. But it isn't like you are going to go to hell for it. Once your children are older and no longer participating in the scouts, you should talk to them about your belief that there is no god. You can even wait until the kids are adults to have this conversation. There is very little reason to announce to the world that you are an atheist.

Everyone who knows me knows that I am an atheist now. I no longer hide from that term. But I was also at a point in my life when I was not going to harm anyone by making my non-belief known. It is not something that comes up often, even with my most religious friends. I am still respectful of their religious beliefs. I will be silent if they want to pray. I just delete their emails about god and angels without comment. The only time that I get into heated discussions if when I am confronted with "freedom of religion" arguments from people who know that I am an atheist and are trying to be argumentative---and this would not happen if they did not know about me.

For now, you could just stop going through the motions and tell people that you no longer trust any religions or some vague statement if you are forced to say anything. But don't put your kids in a bad situation at a young age just to ease your guilt. Live a decent life and raise the kids to be decent, and it will be easier for them to understand when the time is right.

[amuse bouche]

16. "The hardest part is accepting the "atheist" title."

I'm not a fan of the label and feel it's forced on me by religies

I usually describe myself as reality driven, a Humanist or not a fan of magical beliefs and a Sky Daddy

[Curmudgeoness]

17. I don't feel as if the title is forced on me,

except that there would be no need for it if I didn't have to have a way to define myself on a scale of religiousness. So you have a point, it is forced on us. But I have accepted it as well. It describes exactly what I am. I just wish that it didn't have to have a negative connotation. I just don't let it be negative.

[Vashta Nerada]

9. Just flat out tell them that you don't believe in fairy tales.

If they don't want to be friends anymore, they're not very good xtians (i.e. hypocrites).

[JNelson6563]

10. Perhaps develop other hobbies for them.

And of course you can continue scouting activities with them yourself. Include any friends who aren't in scouting formally but might enjoy. You could just kind of gradually fall away from the Boy Scouts. Slowly but surely just become too busy on a regular basis.

Julie

[TxDemChem]

11. I feel you and your dilemma.

I wish I had some sort of answer from my own life, but I have found that for the most part, I can talk to my friends, family and coworkers about everything but religion. I haven't had too many problems with them in general. Things get awkward when they pray over food and I don't participate, but if they love and respect you enough, they will accept you.

Good luck!

[defacto7]

12. Hey angrychair! Welcome to the group.

Your plight is as old as religion itself. It's the struggle of being in, being out, being honest or being deceptive for a cause. Whatever you decide to do, remember that atheism is written with a lower case "a" because it's not a religion or a belief system, it's simply the lack of them. You don't have to defend it because it doesn't have a creed; it's a condition. There's no need to announce it to everyone or anyone; not being a belief it doesn't need to be proselytized. Atheism is not a thing here or there or somewhere, it's just how you have come to understand yourself and that speaks for you alone.

Be honest with your kids, but that doesn't mean teaching them to be atheist, it just means to answer their questions in a way that helps them to think for themselves. When one of my children has asked, "Is God real?", I never say no, I just say, "what do you think?". If they ask if I believe in God I just say, "I don't think there is evidence for a god. What do you think?" If children are confronted with open minded questions about religion, god, afterlife or the like, they always come up with the right answer along the way because it's natural and rational. Religion and faith has to be taught one way or another unless it comes from a psychosis of some sort, atheism is just the natural condition of humanity.

Loosen up and be very glad you are free of forced, exercised myth.. or worse, being blinded in defense of a delusion.

[dorkulon]

13. This makes me feel lucky that my folks were atheists.

I never felt this way, like I had to stay in the closet or be cast out. That really sucks.

While I can't advise you directly, I can say that the true issue is whether your friends, family, etc. have any respect for you and your beliefs, or lack thereof. It sounds like you think not. You're probably right; it seems that the religious pretty much expect us all to agree with them and even a passive, non-confrontational disagreement is seen as an attack on them. Still, consider the damage that these beliefs may have on your kids. Do you really want them to feel trapped and unable to express themselves as well? Do you want them to feel shame about their biological desires, to constantly fear the wrath of God? It may seem normal to you, but to me it's just insane.

[F4lconF16]

14. With what little experience I have...

here's my thoughts. I'm lucky to have figured things out at a point in my life where I don't have all the things to worry about that you do. I'm young, don't have kids, live in a fairly secular family, have tolerant friends, and live where atheism is more common. However, I kind of know what you are talking about.

For me, I've found that it's best if I don't advertise it, but don't shy away from it. I will always give a straight and truthful answer if asked, but I get myself into trouble if I start arguing. I do agree with what WarrenStupidity said, though: I will not tolerate bigotry in any form, and will stand up for that reason. Always.

I have also learned that if a person does not like my atheism, then it's their choice to stay a friend. I've stopped worrying about losing friends over it. There are enough tolerant people that I don't waste my time with the others. Family would be different, if I had that problem; I would probably have a harder time with letting go like that. For me, it's worked best just to remain polite, but firm. I won't take part in any religious activity, but I won't vocally oppose it, either. This seems to be the nice middle ground.

The part of your question I can probably best help with is scouting and your kids. Like I mentioned, I'm young. I was in scouts until a couple years ago. There's a really weird atmosphere in scouting, and a lot of it comes down to the individual troops in. There's been "secular" troops I've been in that I would have been scared to death of if they had known I was atheist, as well as heavily mormon troops I would have felt fine telling them. I think, personally, that the best thing you can do is go with your kids to meetings, go on campouts with the troop. Get a feel for the troop. Then talk with your kids about what you feel. My parents have always been open with me about their doubts and beliefs in god, and it makes a difference. If the troop is heavily christian, then let them know they might experience discrimination. Ask them questions, let them ask questions. It makes a world of difference (especially with the younger boys) to have a friend and mentor. I say this after having helped a number of them through other tough issues with the troop I was in; a couple were atheist, another was gay. If the troop seems adamant about only having christians, try looking for another in your area. I wish I had clearer advice, but scouting is weird. It can be the friendliest of places, but strangely intolerant at times. It's tough switching to another troop, or quitting scouts, but if the discrimination is there and real, it might be best to leave. There are other alternative groups, though admittedly smaller and less appealing. Scouting was one of the best things in my life, but only because I was able to figure out how to deal with the intolerances I found. The best thing you can do is be open and try to help your kids understand things.

Anyways, best of luck to you. I hope a couple things might actually end up being of use to you, just my experiences. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions about the scouts, I've been pretty good at working with parents and boys and helping them figure out a path in scouting that works for them.

[NastyRiffraff]

15. Be prepared to lose and gain

When I first "came out" I got surprised on several levels. From friends and family, the reactions ranged from disbelief ("you're not really an atheist&quot to anger, to pity. Then from some, acceptance. Some tried to convert me back and I had to tell them to stop. That made some angry, some not.

But the real surprise was when I told some friends/acquaintances/co-workers (when the subject came up) was: "Hey, I am too!" It was amazing how many. It showed me that we're out there, in surprisingly greater numbers.

My method is to talk about it when the subject comes up naturally (and it will!) Just be prepared for a wide variety of reactions.

I don't know what to tell you about the Boy Scouts. Good luck.

[Arugula Latte]

18. One phrase that can be helpful is "supernatural beliefs"

When someone brings up some religious thing you can say: "I just don't believe in the supernatural." That covers all religions and puts it back on them that they are the ones who have chosen to buy into these beliefs that are not based on reason or science.

[Gore1FL]

19. I went through 7 years of Scouting as an Atheist.

I was my patrol's Chaplain's Aid in Wood Badge training. I sat through the crap I had to, and avoided the rest.

The great thing about rules like that is that they are impossible to enforce as long as everyone is allowed to define "God" in any way they want.