The struggle with a virtuous atheist

[rug]

Saturday, October 19, 2013 6:30 am
Dr. Mark Ross/Columnist
Dr. Mark Ross is the pastor of Marion Baptist Church.

I did not like her the first time I met her. I could blame it on her attitude or the way she looked or acted. Yet, the truth is I disliked her because she had once embarrassed me.

She was the neighbor to a man who had just died. I had been called to his home by his family. When there is a death, there are necessary calls to be made. The authorities, the funeral home, appropriate family and friends are a few of those calls. Usually, someone thinks to call the minister.

At the home, I spoke with the deceased man’s immediate family and this neighbor. We discussed funeral arrangements and the early details. Then I did what I always do at a time like that. I asked everyone to join me in prayer. As if on cue, everyone bowed their heads; everyone, that is, except this neighbor woman. That was awkward enough, but then she said, “No.” I thought I had misheard the woman or she had misunderstood me. Then she repeated it again, “No, I do not want to pray. I don’t believe in God.”

I have to confess that she rattled me and my prayer. I found myself thinking more about the atheist in the room than the dead man in the room. After the prayer, I did not know what to say to the woman. I was tempted to make some kind of rebuttal like, “You may not believe in God, but God believes in you.” Yet, everything sounded so trite in the presence of such great disbelief. Most of all, I was just embarrassed

http://www.tricities.com/swvatoday/news/editorials/article_0217f458-3840-11e3-83d8-001a4bcf6878.html

By their fruits you shall know them.

[intaglio]

1. The headline is a nice tease :D

Of course the woman who was doing so much good might hope that Dr Ross is one day able to discard the crutch he uses much as he hopes she might one day find faith.

Of course the problem is not the Dr Ross' of this world as much as it is the faithful of all sorts who insist that only those who acknowledge the deity of choice are worth anything.

[rug]

2. This line was a nice pivot.

I thought to myself that it would be unlikely that I would ever see this woman again. I could quietly dislike her from a distance.

[PotatoChip]

3. The pastor sounds a bit petty to be preoccupied by this.

His feelings of embarrassment really have no relevance to the situation. It is not about him.

Otoh, it appears that the deceased man's family had no objection to the prayer. Therefore (imo), the neighbor who found praying objectionable ought to have kept her opinions to herself, out of respect for them. If prayer is what they wanted, who is she to voice her opinion(s) on the matter?

It may have been awkward, but surely she could have found some other way to deal w/the situation. Perhaps politely excuse herself from the room somehow?

[edhopper]

4. Seems like all she did was

not bow her head. it was the Pastor who pushed the point. Perhaps he should have just gone on with the prayer and not made an issue of it.
But when confronted she explained why she wasn't praying. But of course your response is: "How dare the awful atheist say she doesn't believe." Typical.

[PotatoChip]

5. Did you miss this part of the OP?

That was awkward enough, but then she said, “No.” I thought I had misheard the woman or she had misunderstood me. Then she repeated it again, “No, I do not want to pray. I don’t believe in God.”

[edhopper]

6. As he stared at her

waiting for her to bow her head. So she explained. If that offended him, too bad.
Having been in similar situations, I can tell you the automatic expectation that you will pray with everyone else is assumed and often met with incredulity.

[PotatoChip]

7. Where does it say that he stared at her? (nt)

[edhopper]

9. My reading of his story

(and i would like to hear her side)

I asked everyone to join me in prayer. As if on cue, everyone bowed their heads; everyone, that is, except this neighbor woman. That was awkward enough, but then she said, “No.” I thought I had misheard the woman or she had misunderstood me. Then she repeated it again, “No, I do not want to pray. I don’t believe in God.”

Why was it awkward that she did not bow? Why did that stop him from starting the prayer? If he had bowed to pray, why did he find her not bowing awkward or even have it an issue for him. As I said, I have been in similar situations. I find that atheist do not just volunteer this without being prompted. As oppose to some religious folk who like to interject God and religion into all sorts of situations.
Also, the description of her as such a good person, I seriously doubt she would just disrupt this somber occasion just to claim her atheism.

And where do you see that she found the prayer objectionable? She simply did not join in, but that was too much for the Pastor.

[Mariana]

19. So he thought it was "awkward" that she didn't bow her head

when everyone else did. He was upset about that alone, before she even said anything. Well, it was only awkward because this jackass didn't leave her alone and go on with his prayer. He wanted her to put on a performance, and she wasn't having it.

[el_bryanto]

8. I think context plays a roll in this as well

It is a death in the family; this is traditionally one of the times that religion plays a roll of comforting. To a non-believer it might seem childish, but there is comfort in believing you will see your loved ones again.

A religious figure traditionally comes in to help with that comfort; so I can sort of sympathize with the priest.

Bryant

[edhopper]

10. I don't see where she objected to the prayer

only decided to not join in and spoke out only when confronted.

[Lordquinton]

21. Maybe she was grieving too

Maybe she knew the man had been an atheist as well. Seems there are too many details missing from this tale to make any judgments.

[cbayer]

11. It's great that he was able to confront his own prejudices and see her for who

she really is.

I hope he gets the opportunity to spend some time with her. Could be an enlightening conversation for the both of them.

[rexcat]

18. After reading the entire piece...

I don't think he will ever come to grips with this atheist or atheists in general.

This just says it all:

My best hope is that someday faith will find this reluctant saint. In Matthew 25...

On edit: he does admit to being a bigot but will he do anything about it, probably not based on the excerpt above.

[Gore1FL]

12. Perhaps the good pastor should revisit Matthew 7:1-5.

At one point of his article he is starting to come around to reality:

I am bigoted. I associate faith with virtue. Believers always do good things. However, accounts of abuse by clergy should erase that fantasy. I also associate lack of faith with lack of virtue. That is wrong.

He still isn't there yet, because he goes on to judge others he has not met when he says We could use a few more unbelievers like this woman.

When he further states My best hope is that someday faith will find this reluctant saint. he demonstrates how far he actually has to go.

[MineralMan]

13. When people pray where I am, I'm simply silent

Last edited Mon Oct 21, 2013, 12:22 PM - Edit history (1)

and do nothing at all. I don't pretend to pray, nor do I comment. I don't care if people pray, but I'm an atheist. I simply don't pray at all. So far, nobody has ever commented on it.

It's a choice. For someone to notice that I'm not praying and commenting on that is just rude. I'm not being rude. They are if they make something of my non-prayer.

[rug]

14. That's nice.

[MineralMan]

15. Thanks, rug.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. No one's ever noticed me not bowing my head at all.

Usually the first person to suggest a prayer is the first to lower their head.

I've never seen some asshole taking attendance before.

[Mariana]

20. It happens.

Not too often, fortunately. Most clergy have somehow found a way to accept the reality that everyone doesn't share their beliefs, and have learned not to take it personally. This one apparently has a long way to go.

[No Vested Interest]

17. Your action in this situation sounds appropriate.

I believe the minister should have just smiled at the woman, or said something like, 'All right" or "I understand" and gone about his business of offering a prayer.
He should not make the family uncomfortable. They likely knew the neighbor's views on religion.
Being a clergyman, he likely is used to what he considers proper respect and to people acquiescing in his request.
A seasoned clergyman knows there are all kinds of people with all kinds of views and is flexible enough to handle.

[MineralMan]

22. Thanks. At a recent Lutheran funeral, I did as I usually do

during prayers, which is nothing at all. The minister officiating at the funeral apparently noticed my non-prayer, and asked me about it at the funeral "lunch" that seems to be a part of all Lutheran funerals. I told her that I was an atheist, so didn't participate in prayers. She said, "Oh." Then, we had an interesting conversation about Martin Luther and the Augsburg Confession, and what it had meant to Christianity in Europe and elsewhere.

It was one of the better funerals I have attended.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

23. It can split up families.

Bringing up religion after someone dies.

Like the JW estranged from her heathen sister who, after the funeral said "I'm sure you think that _____is in heaven now, but she's now in Hell" and the woman's son said "Now is not the time to talk about it, we all have to deal with this in our own way" which was a lot politer than "STFU".

But then, I believe Jesus explicitly said he came to split up families. He certainly has.