I'm wondering if religion and the twelve steps teach humility so people can get

[applegrove]

along. They do this by handing power over to god. People pray when they are troubled by nature. They get sad, ask god for direction or help, then the fact that they have been sad keeps them on a more realistic road (sad people are less delusional that happy ones). When you are sad you reconnect with a new reality. That is a very human way to be..to have this sadness skill. But when you hand the results of your sadness over to god, you are giving him/her credit for your strength, your perceptiveness, etc. So you have less of an ego. Then you go on with your life on the right road. If you are an atheist you are on that right road and say "i am a good human being". If you are on that right road and are religious you say "god is good, he makes me a good human being by putting me on the right road". The second teaches compliance which is what the gop want. If you are an addict - learning compliance so you get healthy is a good thing.

But then there is the part of the relationship with god that is delusional. This is when the beliver is in rapture with god and all the things god has helped them with when they were sad. But they are not sad. They feel god's love and share that with the world. They have been softened up so to speak. And are more easily exploited. It is true that the manipulators of the world are like a heat seeking missile when it comes to good people.

I am an acolholic and accept that my ancestors have my power when it comes to anything addictive. I am weak and need help in that regard. I have no power there. But I will never hand over the results of my sadness, my perceptiveness, over to god. I don't have the luxury of that kind of trust...and I learnt it the hard way. And I don't know that in the united states, where the gop used the tools of the psychopath to convince people to vote for things that will only make life better for the 1%, that it has the luxury of trusting religion either. The Catholic church seems to know that...it has come out against neocons in the last decade. I'd like to see more religions come out in favour of people being insightful and following their gut feelings instead of being sheep right now. Sometimes the times call for different action and religion is no different from any other institution in that regard. Why I was so happy to see churches help out OWS in NYCity. To be the place that people look to for strength and wisdom these institutions have to be perceptive themselves.

[msongs]

1. good things are all due to the oh heavenly grid and all the bad things....are your fault lol nt

[peacebird]

2. i see less humility and more arrogance from the religious right

Which is pretty funny if you look at what the repukes say vs what they do.
"freedom for the individuals" vs "personhood at conception" and "marriage protection act"

[immoderate]

3. They hand it over to god -- until they want it back!

And then it's the same old shit.

--imm

[kwassa]

4. The twelve steps only ask you to believe in something greater than yourself.

Whether or not that is a belief in God is for the individual to decide. You are correct in the idea that it creates an important sense of humility. Without it, the addict attempts, and fails, to manage the universe.

A belief in God, or the divine, or in simply something greater than us, is not the property of conservatives. There are Christian churches that are very liberal, very open, very inclusive. There are actually more liberal Christians via the mainline churches than there are conservative evangelicals, they simply don't get the press and aren't as politically effective because of that.

This doesn't mean that they aren't there.

You sound like you could use a meeting. Do you have a sponsor?

[applegrove]

5. No I don't need a meeting. I'm good. I was just thinking out loud about god and being.

perceptive and how getting along can be both good and bad...along with any other human quality. If I sounded like I was rambling I am sorry.

If there are more christian liberals in the USA, they certainly have been very, very quiet.

[kwassa]

6. Christian liberals aren't quiet, they simply don't get media coverage.

They aren't news because they aren't controversial. They advocate things that make sense.

[cbayer]

7. agree