So, my fiancee may have deconverted entirely, and I'm not happy about it...

[Humanist_Activist]

You would think, being the outspoken atheist I am, I would be very happy about this but I'm not.

Don't get the wrong impression, she was never what anyone could call strongly religious, just a mainstream Catholic(what some call a cafeteria Catholic), may go to church for holidays, sometimes goes on a few Sundays outside that, still believes in Jesus, socially liberal, etc.

But recent events have shattered what faith she had, and its been an accumulation from the recent tragedies in my family, especially with my mother and grandmother dying within weeks of each other, and her helping me deal with that, but just last month her stepfather was diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer, just this week they put him in hospice, and he may not live past the weekend, no one knows for sure. Her Mom is a mess, hell she is a mess, and she recently ranted to me about God, just out of the blue.

Generally we never talk about religion in any serious capacity, except to agree to not indoctrinate our future kids and her wanting a wedding in a Catholic church. I was ambivalent about this, though amused that I, an open atheist in my family, would be the only one to get married in a Catholic church, this includes all my cousins. All of us were raised Catholic, just to clarify. I have a feeling that a church wedding may no longer be in the picture.

So given this, we were driving down the road, on the way home from the restaurant, when she broke into a rant about God, Jesus, the Church, etc. It just burst out seemingly randomly, basically she said that she was taught that God never gives you more than you can handle, and well, the ones who taught her that lied. I was caught unprepared, indeed, at the time I was trying to make her laugh, trying to distract her with corny jokes, because a few days before was when her mom told her about her step dad's cancer.

She laid out the classical problem of evil argument, through she didn't call it that, basically if God exists, he's an evil asshole for putting people through what she and others(namely me) go through, for her it was personal, and she said she really doesn't want to believe in God anymore. Frankly this sounds more like a crisis in faith, rather than a complete abandonment, I know from personal experience that losing faith takes a while, but my loss wasn't triggered by tragedy so I don't know.

Its not the faith itself I'm worried about, I worry more about her emotional well being, and I know not to suggest she go talk to a priest, for her that won't end well. I guess I just have no experience in this, most people I know who lost faith lost it due to either examining evidence or due to life circumstances that made their lives incompatible with the religion they were raised in.

I will say its been almost a month, and we haven't talked about religion since, except for a semi-awkward visit to her grandparents on 4th of July(Uber-Catholics), who made us sit through grace. I figured that I should probably just do what I have been doing, providing what emotional support, no matter how inadequate it is, to her, and support her in whatever she wants to do. Its probably for the best, if she wants to talk about it more, then she can initiate the conversation. I just hope this crisis of faith doesn't add to her stress, one reason I'm glad to be an atheist, I never really thought about the issues she thought and ranted about, sin, punishment, acts of God, etc.

And the kicker is that my Mom's birthday is July 25, and yes my family is planning a memorial that day, and yes I've been, well, grieving her, off and on, during this year, and its getting bad again because of the date(mother's day was hell), so my fiancee is also worried about me. Told her not to, but damn it she's as bad as I am at listening.

[ejpoeta]

1. that sounds perfectly normal. I grew up catholic and after my mom died

I spouted some of those same things. I was almost 13 at the time. but this is perfectly normal reaction when one experiences a great loss.... or more than one. She needs to works through these emotions she is feeling, and somewhere down the road she may stop being angry at god or whatever. I had asked god to make my mom better or take her so she didn't have to suffer anymore. Apparently I wasn't happy with the results. I still miss my mom dearly. It is an evolution from the pain I felt at 12 and the understanding of a life without my mom. Though it has been over 25 years, that pain is still there, though dulled by time. Birthdays, holidays... sometimes it's worse than others. But it isn't as fresh as it is for you and your fiance. It's a process to get to a new reality in which you don't see that person in a crowd when you go around the corner, or you forget for a moment before remembering again and having that pain rush right back. IT takes time. She will be ok.

[Ilsa]

2. Give her time to work

Through her grief. Look for hints of when she might be ready to talk about her feelings. Sounds to me like you are a wonderful partner to her.

I'm very sorry about all of the tragedy that has befallen you both.

[DetlefK]

3. Sorry to hear that.

Every person operates on several assumptions about the world and itself. To have those mental foundations shattered must be really hard.

Becoming an atheist wasn't such a sudden mental loss to me, because going to church was more a matter of tradition than religion in my family.

The following is just a wild guess, but the best I can come up with:
Found some other non-religious person she can talk to. She can't talk about that to other believers, because they can't imagine what she feels like. She's in a state of emptiness and desperation right now and the best therapy for would be to "vomit it all out" verbally. Once she has reached the state where she has spoken out everything (thus making it real), she can go on and look for new mental foundations and rebuild.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. There are many good secular therapists.

They are generally better qualified than a priest to help people cope with the stress and turmoil of life, and to do so without the blather of religious mythology. Also, you yourself have had to deal with grief and personal tragedy without the crutch of religion, couldn't you share your experiences in this area as a way of helping her to understand how to cope without god?

[rug]

5. I can tell you one thing.

When my daughter died the only solace I got was when I started volunteering overnight at a shelter. God had nothing to do with it and I was in no state to engage in philosophizing about evil. Being around wounded, surviving people was the only thing that kept me connected.

[cbayer]

8. OMG, rug. I had no idea.

I can't even let myself imagine it.

[okasha]

10. Nor had I.

The only thing that helps that kind of pain is being with people who understand it first hand.

[Daemonaquila]

6. I'd call that normal.

Maybe even good news. It stinks that she is in emotional turmoil, but that's how people work through crises and traumas. If it means she questions or loses her faith, it's fine. She doesn't need a counselor, priest, or anyone else to "help" her with this, unless she decides she needs or wants that. Just give her the emotional support you've been giving her, and the patience and time for her to work through it.

[cbayer]

7. I am sorry about what you all are going through and glad that you have each other.

I'm not sure why you would resist encouraging her to talk to a priest. If she is having what sounds like a spiritual crisis and knows a priest she trusts, it could be very helpful. If you are worried about her emotional well being, perhaps some other kind of counselor.

But it sounds like you are in a lot of pain yourself. Where will you turn for emotional support while she is trying to heal her own wounds?

[No Vested Interest]

9. "God never gives you more than you can handle"?

We who have lived long enough know that this is not so. Many crises, sad or terrible things happen in life which are more than a person can handle. (Just saw the story of Andrea Yates on TV the other night and she surely had more than she could handle.)

The people who "taught" her that weren't lying; they just didn't know better. They need to be forgiven for their naivete, not castigated. Forgiveness takes a certain level of maturity, and that comes with more time of living than we suspect.

I've never read "When bad things happen to good people", written by a Jewish rabbi (Harold Kushner) in 1978. Perhaps there are some thoughts there that might be helpful to her.

Peace.