Minnesota Archbishop Told Mother To Reject Her Gay Son Or Go To Hell

[ButterflyBlood]

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/10/09/976841/minnesota-archbishop-told-mother-to-reject-her-gay-son-or-go-to-hell

Reminds me of what I've often said, which is that if I tried to remain Catholic due to being raised that way I'd basically have to psychological torture myself or just engage in the most blatant cognitive dissonance ever. Leaving that was the easiest decision I've ever made.

[aquart]

1. Satan Bags an Archbishop!

Insists he say mass in Hell.

[Angry Dragon]

2. Just another example of what is wrong with the Catholic Church

[MADem]

3. The "update" at that web page is priceless

Minnesota Vikings punter Chris Kluwe has again offered one of his bold responses:

Tell me, Archbishop, Pope, what purpose does the Church serve attempting to influence the affairs of a secular state? The federal benefits under law currently denied gay couples certainly fall under the realm of Caesar, don’t they? No one is forcing the Catholic Church to marry gay couples if that is not the Church’s wish. You can keep the sanctity of Catholic marriage solely between heterosexual couples if you feel that is what’s required (again though, I caution you on the dangers of presumed infallibility). All we are asking is for you to extend the open hand of tolerance instead of the closed fist of fear and hate.
As American citizens, we respect the right for everyone to practice whichever religion they so choose, including the right to not practice one at all. Haven’t we learned enough from the Crusades, the Inquisitions, the Talibans of the world? What does it benefit the Church to attempt to influence secular policy in this country, especially when that influence is to deny basic human rights to others? Will you now assume Caesar’s throne, grasping the transitory ephemera of worldly power and control, while forsaking the eternal kingdom of Heaven?

[Dorian Gray]

4. Yes

This is horrible. I would have ignored his advice. But he's not the only voice in the church, and many others would disagree with him and say he was wrong.

[dmallind]

5. Many others of comparable rank and authority to speak for the church?

Some desperate laity clinging to the church with splintered bloody fingernails while the modern era pulls on their heels do not quite equal an Archbishop in apostolic authority do they?

[rug]

7. Where is the authority to determine state legislation?

Your overwrought simile aside, demonstrate how apostolic succession creates greater competence on civil matter.

Educate yourself.

http://ncronline.org/blogs/grace-margins/why-do-so-many-catholics-support-marriage-equality-blame-catholic-imagination

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/05/11/do-most-catholic-theologians-support-same-sex-marriage.html

[dmallind]

8. The "sin" of homosexual activity is a civic matter to the church now?

Educate yourself,

http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_df75se.htm

"But no pastoral method can be employed which would give moral justification to these acts on the grounds that they would be consonant with the condition of such people. For according to the objective moral order, homosexual relations are acts which lack an essential and indispensable finality. In Sacred Scripture they are condemned as a serious depravity and even presented as the sad consequence of rejecting God.[18] This judgment of Scripture does not of course permit us to conclude that all those who suffer from this anomaly are personally responsible for it, but it does attest to the fact that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered and can in no case be approved of."

The Inquisition.... oh I'm sorry the renamed "Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" seems to think it has a right and indeed duty to restrict pastoral options and attitudes towards gays in the church. Is it wrong to think so?

[rug]

9. It isn't and never was.

Your citation propounds a moral position not a civil one. Nor in it is there any basis for asserting ecclesial authority over civil matters.

I'll ignore your last comment as ignorant rhetoric except to say that when the original Inquistion began, it began under the color of delegated secular authority. The only authority it had to initiate an inquisition was that delegated to it by the state. The church had no such authority on its own then and it does not have it now.

Really, if you want to effectively advocate shurch-state separation a bit of history would go a long way.

[rug]

6. Early on I recognized that people in authority often try to exceed their authority.

This is one of those times. There is nothing in the Catechism or Scriptures that gives any church the authority to speak more competently on civil law than anyone else.

BTW, the headline is inaccurate. There is nothing in the letter that tells this mother to reject her son.

[cbayer]

10. "Spiritual bullying" just about sums it up.

The updated response is good.