An atheist at Christmas: Oh come all ye faithless

[rug]

If the nativity to you is nothing more than a fairytale, how do you handle Christmas?

Alain de Botton
The Guardian
Friday 23 December 2011

Christmas is inevitably a rather problematic time for atheists. Does one sour the mood, somewhere between the turkey and the pudding, and overtly declare the entire festivity is built on the naivety and, if one's feeling particularly spiky, the blatant stupidity of one's ancestors? Or does one simply fill up the stocking, sing Away In A Manger and go with the occasion in a spirit of politeness?

In this area, I wasn't reared for compromise. I was brought up in a devoutly atheistic household, by a father who made Richard Dawkins look open-minded on the matter of there perhaps being a supreme being. I recall him reducing my sister to tears in an attempt to dislodge her notion that a reclusive god might dwell somewhere in the universe. She was eight at the time. If any members of their social circle were discovered to harbour clandestine religious sentiments, my parents would start to regard them with the sort of pity more commonly reserved for those diagnosed with a degenerative disease and could from then on never take them seriously again.

Christmas was a particular testbed of loyalties. At its approach, my parents would go into overdrive, stressing the absurdity of all its rituals, art, songs and traditions. They weren't so cruel as to deny their children presents – but to make the point, they insisted on giving them to us in August. This wasn't a problem. It was rather special. I went through childhood feeling rather sorry for people vulgar enough to have Christmas trees and advent calendars: hadn't they understood?

Then, in my mid-20s, I underwent a crisis of faithlessness. It began with a re-evaluation of Christmas – and gradually spread to religion as a whole. My feelings of doubt began one year when I was invited to spend Christmas at the home of a Christian friend. He had evidently taken pity on me. At the time, I was single, professionally adrift and obviously lonely – and when he suggested I might like to test my prejudices and come for a bit of lunch (playfully promising there would be no attempts to save my soul, or at least not till after the main course), I didn't even pretend to put up a fight. Needless to say, the occasion was eye-opening in the extreme. I felt I was doing something very taboo simply by pulling a cracker. There was warmth, jollity, music, even moments of faith that no longer felt especially alien or daft. As lunch spread out across a lazy afternoon, I began to face up to the full scale of my ambivalence regarding the doctrinaire principles with which I had been inculcated in childhood. I never wavered in my certainty that God did not exist. I was simply liberated by the thought that there might be a way to engage with religion without having to subscribe to its supernatural content.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/dec/24/christmas-atheists?newsfeed=true

[cbayer]

1. Great read, rug.

May your day be filled with comfort and joy (and I hope you win at least one game of chess).

[rug]

2. Same to you, cb.

(The only reason I lost is that she moved the pieces when I went out to smoke.)

[MarkCharles]

3. Hope you have a wonderful holiday!

The holiday is an international holiday, observed in many predominantly Christian nations.

Here in the USA, where we post on DU, most of us have the day off from work, (except our most essential workers, police, fire, medical, military etc.)

So we can observe this holiday just as we observe Thanksgiving, or Labor Day, a day to enjoy life without being required to believe what we do not believe. Jewish folks, Hindu's Buddhists, Muslims, etc. all can do what they wish of this day, too, believe what they wish any day of the year.

Chinese restaurants do a bang-up business with Jewish folks on days like today, but I'd imagine you'll find a few atheists and other non-Jewish folks there, too.

We skeptics and non-believers in the Christian tales and traditions meet with our family and friends, (many of whom might be believers, even Christians). We do what Christians do, just without a need to believe what others believe.

Christmas is a time to respect Christians and their faith, and thank them for a nice holiday where we can be with friends and family.

I hope you Christian members of this forum have one of your best Christmas holidays ever, and that we all have a wonderful day, and a wonderful, prosperous, healthy and happy new year.

[rug]

6. You too.

Going to the movies and having Indian food later.

[Gregorian]

4. I come from nearly exactly the opposite.

And for many years I've found myself sitting alone on Xmas day, disgusted by the routine. My father is a biblical scholar. Their Christmas day was dreadful. I began thinking about how these holidays are automatic. A top down order that the masses obediently follow. I began to observe the beautiful absence of cars everywhere on Christmas day. I would venture out during Christmas morning just to enjoy the city in silence, without the cars. Sort of like Superbowl Sunday. My two days.

Then came DU. There was a member named Az who used to post in the religion forum. An Atheist, most likely. And my hair would raise whenever he would reply, because he threatened my belief in Christianity. Don't get me wrong, I was/am a Christian. I just hated the stupid practice of Christmas. But over the years, between hearing what bright things Atheist had to say, and my father (an intelligent man, and liberal) blabbing about how God is watching out for us, I began to realize that belief is belief, not fact. I began to see that claiming one side or the other as fact was just as unreasonable. I'd even say there is more evidence that Jesus was more than a man than otherwise. But I don't know that. So how can I be so smug as to insist that it's fact? One thing lead to another, and I started thinking rationally. Praying doesn't pass the scientific method. Jump in a well and try praying your way out. But one can go too far one way or the other.

I no longer believe one way or the other. I am open minded.

It just seemed like the right day, and the right thread to mention this on.

[MarkCharles]

5. "But one can go too far one way or the other."?

"claiming one side or the other as fact was just as unreasonable"?


One either believes or doesn't believe. Facts are facts, beliefs are beliefs. You seem confused.

I can see going "too far" in believing in anything supernatural, anything "religious".

But NOT believing cannot go any further than simply NOT believing. One cannot go "too far" not believing.

Equating facts with beliefs is a trap you, yourself, don't want to fall into. We can all understand that.

Being a Christian, evidently, to you, does NOT require "believing" but it can and often does, but not for you?
I guess I could call myself a Christian, then, if that is your self-definition of being a Christian.

Facts are facts, beliefs are beliefs. Christians can and do agree with atheists as to most facts in the world around us. But then Christians add a whole slew of material on top of the facts and call those their "beliefs"and thus as "beliefs" do not require any evidence or proof. They are merely "beliefs" they tell us.

Atheism is simply a lack of belief, not another set of facts. One cannot go "too far" with facts! One can only go "too far" with beliefs.

The only thing atheists do NOT do is hold beliefs without sufficient factual evidence. I cannot "believe" in Christian stories and "beliefs" because they would require me to accept them without any shred of evidence. So I am a non-believer, a skeptic, a man without belief in a god or Jesus or anything.

I am not a Christian, I am not a theist, I am an atheist, a person "without belief".

I think you are confusing atheism with anti-theism. Anti - theists can be atheists, they can also be Christians who condemn the Islamic god as not the same god, not a Christian god. They are anti-Islamic theists. The Ten Commandments are quite precise on how to be an anti-theist ..."thou shalt hold no other gods..." etc.

[Gregorian]

7. Nope Agnostic.

Atheism is the belief that there is no god. Christianity is the belief that there is a god. Both take a side.

I'm not going to quibble on definitions. Fuck it. I'm out of here. This isn't the conversation I want to have.

[GliderGuider]

11. Belief and disbelief are just the two sides of the same dualistic coin.

Non-belief is a whole other ball of wax entirely.

I'm working on completely discarding all my beliefs, and it's a very hard job. Much harder than just switching out one belief for another.

[Gregorian]

12. My difinitive answer to everything right here--

I just realized I may have to explain this. Moments ago I ran into this video. It's the fact that this guy is trying to be serious. And it's about religion. I guess I'm more on the cat's wavelength now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nYNHUFgdpk4

[GliderGuider]

13. That's hilarious! The cat knows where it's at, all right!

[MarkCharles]

14. Who ever could disagree with that? LOL n//t

[cbayer]

15. That is hilarious!

[rug]

19. There's a paradox.

[Adsos Letter]

20. Ceiling Cat..

...iz watching.

[tama]

17. Kaos Magic practice of non-belief

Believing genuinely, seriously, even fervently. But chaotically, few months a Christian theist, then atheist materialist for some period. Could loosen your believing marbles quite effectively... that kind of magical thinking...

[GliderGuider]

21. Thanks! I hadn't heard the term before, but it turns out my GF has practiced sigil magic.

We both resonate with Discordianism, Robert Anton Wilson and Wicca, so chaos magic definitely needs further investigation.

I'm currently reading an excellent book called "The Book of Not Knowing" by Peter Ralston. It's essentially a handbook on how to discard beliefs, and why one might wish to try something so odd and Quixotic. It looks like there's a nice linkage between that and chaos magic.

[rug]

8. I used to work the third shift in a type shop in midtown Manhattan.

When I'd take a break in the middle of the shift and go outside the stillness would envelop me. Your post reminded me of that.

Enjoy the pause today brings.

[cbayer]

9. I am also enjoying the peace and relative silence that today brings.

After years of way too much tradition both as a child, then raising children, I treasure the quietness of today. My only tradition now is to play the Messiah in the morning.

I also am struck by the change in mood around Christmas - more kindness, a gentler approach, a more hopeful and loving attitude. At least that is my experience. For all the things that Christmas gets wrong, I still think the underlying message is a beautiful reminder of what is really important.

I support your open mindedness and agree that there are those on the extremes who exercise intolerance towards others. There is little to discuss with them, but much to discuss with people like you.

Thanks for sharing this today and I hope your day is full of comfort and joy.

[PassingFair]

10. I remember AZ as well.

A very gentle atheist!

I hope he's having a good Xmas, where ever he is.

[onager]

16. ...

[dmallind]

18. Meh - it's a day off with some social norms

Why should it and its trappings be any more problematic for me than July 4th and fireworks or Thanksgiving and turkey? I don't "handle" it any more than I "handle" other holidays and their norms regardless of origin. Come to think of it just like Christians "handle" the syncretic origins of this holiday.

[RainDog]

22. it's a celebration of the solstice

what I find that's nice about the holiday is the way in which is continues humans' connections to the earth and our ancestors' knowledge about the cycles of the seasons.

long ago I found a lot of gold-painted plaster sun ornaments when I lived in Europe and those are still my my favorite ones.

for children, the story of a child that is loved and adored is a sweet one for them to hear - they are also loved and we give them presents to celebrate their existence.

...iow, I don't find christmas to be about christianity as a doctrine unless someone wants it to be.

the problem is those who want it to be a way to force their (literalist) beliefs on the rest of us - or indicate those without the "proper" beliefs are excluded.