Religion
Related: About this forumIt’s funny how inconvenient my lack of faith as a bereaved mother can be for those on the outside.
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/24/please_stop_telling_me_my_daughter_is_in_heaven/Being an atheist in a believers world can be difficult at times, especially when some of the more fervently religious are close family or friends. Its even more daunting when faced with grief and death. Christians believe that when we die, we either go to heaven or hell. Many, of course, believe babies go to heaven because they are, well, babies. When our daughter died, my husband requested to have our baby baptized, fearing in some way for her soul, a remnant of his Catholic upbringing. There was no time for a traditional baptism while she was alive but her NICU doctor performed the rite for her while we held her in our arms for the first time, our tiny, frail, lifeless daughter whose eyes never even got a chance to see. It felt bizarre to me, but I allowed it because my husband was suffering and it seemed to bring him some comfort. Later, as reality hit harder, he would lose all faith as I had done.
(. . .)
The thing is, though, if you tell someone of faith that you dont believe your child is in heaven, youre met with confusion, or sad looks, or sometimes even a bit of anger. People dont understand how or why you wouldnt want to believe that your child is in a better place. Quite often, they take it as a personal attack on their belief when its really more about being honest about your own grief. Its funny how inconvenient my lack of faith as a bereaved mother can be for those on the outside. (Actually, its not funny at all.)
I sought out support groups in my area, but could not find any that were not held within a church. I did not feel comfortable going to one of these places for fear of verbally assaulting anyone who might suggest my daughter had earned her angel wings. It made me want to shake people until they realized that maybe she died simply because people die. Maybe she died because there were errors made in the care I received at the hospital I visited twice in the week before she died, where those who saw me shrugged off that I was spotting without reason. Maybe she died because I was unable to visit a new doctor because the office refused to see me without receiving the paperwork from my previous doctor in Miami, whose office continuously forgot to fax over my records, leaving me without regular medical care for weeks. Maybe she died because I had experienced tremendous stress after being fired from my job due to early pregnancy complications that required me to miss work, causing me to go on Medicaid in the first place, resulting in the aforementioned doctor shuffle. Maybe she died because of any other reason except that it was gods will. Maybe it was more about socio-economics and my own personal health than about imaginary lords in the sky.
rug
(82,333 posts)I had a daughter who lived three hundred days. When I think of her now, these many years later, the last thing on my mind is religion, or atheism, or if and what anyone thinks about it.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I don't post many articles here, this one hit fairly close for me because I too lost a child and yeah, as an atheist there isn't much in the way of support for handling our grief that doesn't often make it even more difficult to bear.
rug
(82,333 posts)This happened just before Thanksgiving, After we buried or daughter, my wife, an atheist, and I chose to drive upstate for Thanksgiving weekend, away from family, and spend time alone. We ended up eating Thanksgiving dinner with strangers at a small church in a small town. Thy held it every year, not just for those struggling financially but for those alone on the holiday. We saw a flyer in a store window announcing anyone who needed to be there was welcpme. So we went.
I question no one who is grieving.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I'm always conflicted about what to say myself about these things when they happen to others, words are so horribly useless and yet you feel compelled to say something, anything. I just try to keep in mind that what I consider to be comforting may not necessarily feel that way to others.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)What I've dealt with as an atheist (out as a child, closeted as an adult) is nothing next to this.
Why people can be so horrible because you don't believe in the proper imaginary friend has always been beyond me.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)My impression is that many theists seem to think that atheists are secretly theists who are denying god and they will come around to acknowledging their theism when put in a severe enough personal crisis.
Having a mother who just suffered the ultimate personal crisis deny god really shocks them to their core, they can't help the reaction and I don't think it's often done maliciously.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)I hope this family lives.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Not believing in the face of death is a proclamation there is no hope for an afterlife.
That is why it triggers such hateful reactions from believers:
in itself, negation of afterlife in deeds endangers their strong wish to hope for one.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)I could see my family members, pets friends and stuff. I could see Elvis, Buddy Holly, Lincoln, F.D.R. George Carlin -- that would be really great --- the priest who gave me a kick in the ass, although I doubt he would have made it. That would give me comfort.
But the problem is the harm the believers do to others, mentally but sometimes physically, in the name of God. I just finished watching, "What's The Matter With Kansas." They voted for Jesus. Now they are finding out what the Republicans austerity programs bring. Jesus ain't helping them.
Yes, the universe was created but the source of that creation does not involve itself in our daily lives.
Intelligent design, My Ass. If the designer that made me was intelligent, there would be a least one more arm in the middle of my chest so I could open a door while carrying stuff. There would be a third eye in the back of my head so I could not be surprised when danger approaches from behind me. I am old, with prostate trouble. An intelligent designer would have given me a holding tank inside my left leg to hold pee so I wouldn't have to pee every hour or so.
There would also be three switches, maybe around my lower spine that would turn me off like a light switch when my life quality fades. It would require me and two other people to turn it off so that I wouldn't turn it off accidently. That would be intelligent design.
Unfortunately, we live among people who are afraid of their own death and because of that fear, you have to experience the responses to their fear. I am sorry you have to go through that. I live in northern New Jersey. I don't have to experience any of that nonsense. Religion is not a major part of most peoples' lives here.
Yes, there are churches but they are generally benign in their need to convert anyone. Even the Jehovah's Witnesses. I told them once that I was an apostic atheist. They never came back. The Mormons? I point out to them that if there was a golden tablet in Western New York, there would be thousands of people digging up the state to find it. They leave quickly.
Maybe you should move to New Jersey.
Anyway, I wish you well.
roody
(10,849 posts)nt