Viral Video Appears To Show Sydney Train Passenger Defending Muslim Woman Against Hateful Rant

[hrmjustin]

Sarah Ann Harris

A commuter has been caught on camera defending a fellow passenger from a hateful tirade on a train in Sydney, Australia.

In the shocking video, an elderly woman is seen asking a Muslim woman: “Why are you wearing it for a man who married a six-year-old girl?”

Shocked, Stacy Eden jumped to the woman’s defense.

In the clip, Eden is heard telling the woman: “She wears it for herself, she wears it because she wants to be modest with her body okay? Not because of people like you who are going to sit there and disrespect her.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/16/sydney-passenger-defends-muslim-woman_n_7078542.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

[okasha]

1. Good to see people standing up to bigotry.

[edhopper]

2. Look, I'm the first one to make fun of

Hasidim costumes, or denounce the treatment of women in Muslim countries,
I cringe when I see Muslim women in full burkas carrying bags of groceries as their empty handed husband walk 5 paces ahead of them (a sight I have seen a few times here in NYC)

But that said, you do not accost someone verbally who is minding their own business out in public.
The woman shouting should have just kept her thoughts to herself. We all just want to get where we are going undisturbed.

[hrmjustin]

3. As an adult you still feel the need to make fun of people because of what they ware?

Last edited Sat Apr 18, 2015, 10:04 AM - Edit history (1)

[Mariana]

5. Edhopper said he makes fun of the costumes

not the people who are wearing them.

Much religious garb does look ridiculous, IMO. But as he said, it's not right to harass people about it.

[hrmjustin]

6. And this makes it ok?

[Mariana]

7. Sure, if he's not bothering them about it.

Do you really think it's wrong to have a laugh, privately, over someone's silly-looking outfit?

[hrmjustin]

9. You can do whatever you want but yes as an adult I find laughing and mocking

people because their clothing is different from mine is childlike.
Forgive me but living in Brooklyn I have a variety of different friends and neighbors so I would never do such a thing.

[okasha]

14. Student and teacher,

I've seen so many weird outfits on university campuses that hijabs and fur hats look absolutely unremarkable.

People whose undies get all twisted up over other people's clothes need to re-examine their priorities.

[Mariana]

15. I understand you feel that way.

I see it differently. My adult daughter makes fun of my clothes sometimes, even right to my face. It doesn't mean she doesn't respect me as a human being, it just means she thinks my clothes look funny. Another example: One regular poster on this forum posted about reading from a particular religious text during a road trip, and finding much hilarity therein. I'm sure she respects the people who follow that text, but she thinks their religion is silly.

Some people wear funny clothes. Some people hold goofy ideas. And so on. It's wrong to harass them for it, but I just don't see how it's wrong to laugh at them in private.

[hrmjustin]

16. If you mocked them privately you may end up doing it publicly one day.

[cbayer]

40. OMG!! It's cbayer meme #243 - "reading from the Book of Mormon while on vacation!"

Exact quotes, in case you might be remotely interested.

We once spent a full day of a road trip laughing while reading

the Book of Mormon going through Utah. It was pretty entertaining.

Read in the right mood, it really can be entertaining.

It was in direct response to a post that said this:

Like everything else attributed Joseph Smith, it's as stimulating as general anesthesia.

But is makes for a great story, doesn't it!

So sorry that your daughter mocks your clothes. It must be painful.

[rug]

57. Wait, doesn't that go reading the Book of Mormon from the stateroom of your yacht?

It's so hard to keep up.

[cbayer]

58. No, it's The God Delusion I read from my yacht stateroom...

well, to be honest, I have someone read it to me. It's always a pick me up when I'm feeling low.

[rug]

59. That's prudent. Eye strain may cause wrinkles.

Ears don't wrinkle.

[edhopper]

11. I make fun of the people too

at least some of the silly religious rituals and practices.
When I say make fun of, I mean joke about it here or in a private setting.
Not walk up to someone on the street and make fun of them.

[edhopper]

8. Yes

One, because they wear it because they think it's what God wants. Which means God commands they wear outfits from 18th Century Prague.

Second, this:
[img][/img]

I find it funny, sue my.

[hrmjustin]

10. Well i live in Brooklyn so I am used to seeing those hats so it doesn't amuse me.

[edhopper]

12. I live in NYC as well

I find them ridiculous.
I find most of the lifestyle of the Hasidim ridiculous.
But as I said, I would never confront them if they are just going about their business.

[hrmjustin]

13. Ok.

[okasha]

17. It's probably mutual.

Personally, I see a lot more character and flair in Orthodox men's wear than in the garden variety men's business suit. What's that thing around your neck about? What kind of guy goes around in public with a noose around his neck? Half of you barely know how to make the knot, and you have to toss it over your shoulder to eat soup.

[Warren Stupidity]

18. It is 2015. Hardly anyone wears a tie anymore.

"character and flair in Orthodox men's wear"



no accounting for taste.

[okasha]

19. You should get out more, Warren.

[edhopper]

21. Cause God says

it's always Prague in 1802

[edhopper]

20. I hate wearing a tie

I agree it is a ridiculous article of clothing. I only do when I must.

Flair is one way of putting it. Of course you miss the point of why they dress as they do.

[img][/img]

[okasha]

22. No, I don't.

They dress the way they do as a matter of comm
unity identity and solidarity. Same reason Native American men wear ribbon shirts and Indian women in the US frequently wear the salwar kameez or sari.

[edhopper]

23. No,

they dress they way they do because God deems it so.
Wearing three layers of wool and a fur hat in August in NY is just plain silly.

[okasha]

24. Show me where "God deems it so."

[edhopper]

25. You'd have to go

through all the Talmudic discussions with them about clothes and grooming.

[okasha]

26. So you can't identify a source for "God deems it so?"

Where in the Talmud is any mention of large, round fur hats? "Prince Albert" coats? The Talmud predates this type of clothing, no?

[edhopper]

27. funny that,

isn't it?

[okasha]

28. So, once again,

"God deems it so" is something you just pulled out of the air. Is that right?

How about this instead: The stopik--that tall fur hat--is worn only by married men belonging to certain Hassidic groups that originated in Poland. It thus is a social identifier of ethnic origin and spiritual heritage. It also signals marital status. No "God deems it so" necessary.

[edhopper]

29. that Hasidim

Just a big secular social club.

[okasha]

30. Stop digging, ed.

[edhopper]

31. you're right of course

nothing the Hasidim do has to do with religion.
Its not like their whole life is proscribed by their interpretation of the Talmud.

[okasha]

32. And bury that silly little attempt at sarcasm on your way out.

[edhopper]

34. attempt?

I think it was pretty solid sarcasm, if I do say.

[okasha]

35. Trite. Your buddies have overworked it.

[edhopper]

36. everybody's a critic.

[beam me up scottie]

33. And your little dog, too!

Last edited Sat Apr 18, 2015, 10:38 PM - Edit history (1)

Iswydt.

[okasha]

37. You speak Welsh--how charming!

[beam me up scottie]

38. My father's mother was Welsh.

She died soon after I was born, as did my Romanian grandmother.

[Warren Stupidity]

39. God deems it so.

These are some of the religious aspects claimed by Hasidim of their dress code. The connections are quite tenuous and the real reasons for the Hasidic dress code are historical and sociological and not theological.

Bekishe or rekelech serve as a sign of modesty and cover almost the entire body.
The bekishe (kapote) is made of silk because of the Biblical prohibition of shaatnez (today it is common to make it out of polyester).

The fur lined shtreimel alludes to the law of shaatnez and began as a way of keeping warm without wearing wool.

Shoes worn on the Sabbath may be plain black "slip-ons" so as not to have to make a knot which is prohibited on that day and so as not to touch the shoes (which would ritually defile one's hands, requiring ritual purification through washing with a special vessel).

A gartel divides the Hasid's lower parts from his upper parts and are mentioned in the Talmud and Shulhan Arukh as a way to "prepare to meet your God".

For Kabbalistic reasons, Hasidim button their clothes right over left.

The Sabbath dress of Hasidim resembles the description of the High Priest's dress in the Bible (this is particularly tenuous and the similarity is not apparent at all).

Some Hasidim wear breeches tucked in white socks so the trouser-bottoms do not touch the ground (which in former times was likely to be a source of waste, which is a Biblical prohibition).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasidic_Judaism

[okasha]

47. Did you bother to read what you cut and pasted?

"...the real reasons for the Hasidic dress code are historical and sociological and not theological."

That's what I said.

[edhopper]

48. You did notice

how many times "Biblical" was referenced. Parenthetical editorializing of the article aside.

[okasha]

50. And yet Jews managed to observe

the law of shaanetz for a couple of millennia without wearing large fur hats.

Somehow I have a suspicion that those hats and long coats originated as a way of keeping warm in northern European winters, not as a response to "God deems it so."

[edhopper]

51. Yes

but now it is due to religious considerations, as they no longer live in Prague in 1802.

[okasha]

53. Which is where the sociogical aspects come in.

[Warren Stupidity]

55. You do understand that those are not exclusive, right?

Also the hat style is shared with iranian imams, it seems that the headgear is of persian origin, modified of course for colder climates, and with a huge layer of "god says so" as well. Religious laws frequently have multiple influences in their origins, so observing that where people lived had some effect on what they wore does nothing to dispute the claim that the clothing is also part of a religious dress code.

Seriously, asserting that hasidic dress codes have no religious component is one of the goofiest claim you've made here.

[okasha]

56. Reading comprehension, Warren.

I made no such claim.

[Warren Stupidity]

62. Honesty okasha. Lacking.

[okasha]

63. Read it again, Warren.

I'm writing standard English here. You ought to be able to cope with it. I said quite clearly that Hasidim do assign symbolic meaning to the various items of dress, just as do other people who perform religious rituals in specific dress or with specific accoutrements.

That still doesn't come down to "God deems it necessary to wear large fur hats" or "Wakan Tanka deems it necessary that pledgers wear red in the Sun Dance."

[rug]

61. The specific hats refer to specific geographic locations and specific Rabbinic lineages.

http://hasidicwilliamsburgtour.com/the-multiple-hats/







http://www.wernercohn.com/hats.html

[Warren Stupidity]

49. Did you read that Hasidim think otherwise?

I did.

[okasha]

52. I read that they assign symbolic meaning

to their dress. That doesn't come down to "God deems it so" any more than it does for the symbolic accoutrements of, say, the Sun Dance, or the symbolism of an Armani silk suit for a Wall Street banker.

[Warren Stupidity]

54. Wow. Just Wow!

It is ok to be wrong every now and then. They do indeed assign "symbolic meaning" , specifically religious symbolic meaning. But you know that, and you knew that when you attempted to weasel out of admitting that your claim that there was no religious justification for Hasidic dress codes was spectacularly goofy.

[cbayer]

41. I tend to agree with your position here, but I think it may be important to

understand the origin of things before making fun of them.

I have read multiple fascinating articles by women who freely choose to wear the burka or similar clothing. The Hasidim traditions are soaked by the cultures in which they arose.

There are ways to laugh that are not mocking. The musical "Book of Mormon" is one that did it brilliantly. Stone and Parker have an immense talent for seeing the humor while respecting the source.

[edhopper]

42. Yes

they dress as if they live in Prague in 1802. And much of there dress is dictated by their belief.
So we get wool coats and fur hats in August in New York.
God must have a sense of humor.

But as i said, making funny of them here, or in private company, even mocking, is differrent than publicly humiliating an individual.

[cbayer]

43. I don't know a lot about this, but how are wool coats and fur hats

directly related to their religious beliefs? And why do they dress differently than jews in other parts of the world do?

While I agree that publicly humiliating individuals for what they wear is completely uncalled for, where does one draw the line for making fun or people or mocking them in private company?

If is ok to mock gay people or black people as long as they are not in the room? If not, why would it be ok to mock hassidic jews or muslim women?

[edhopper]

44. Humor can often be off color.

It's more a private vs public thing and mocking something in general rather than a specific person.
I am also not a saint.



They have a much stricter structure to their lives than most other Jews. And they wish to keep separate from others more.

Here is a good, nuanced article about the Hasidim dress FYI.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/nyregion/hasidic-jews-in-heavy-dress-bear-up-in-summer.html


There are laws about mixing fibers that is interpreted differently among different sects.

http://www.beingjewish.com/mitzvos/shatnez.html

[cbayer]

45. Yeah, I lived in the south for a long time.

Lots off color humor about blacks and gays. Not ok with me at all.

I understand the the Hasidim have a much stricter structure and a wish for separation. From the article you link, I think the women are following some religious rules about modesty, but he men seems to do it more as a sign of respect for each other.

As with many things, I think there is an inextricable mix of religion of culture here that has resulted in some ritualistic dress.

Just as one might see among the workers on wall street, who worship something completely different.

[edhopper]

46. Though in Wall Street it is all culture

much of in just following the crowd.

There are similarities and also BIG differences.

[beam me up scottie]

60. Wtf? You just admitted you laughed at mormons because of their beliefs.

Now you're comparing edhopper to racists and homophobes because he laughs at what people wear?

okasha thinks men's ties are funny looking, she compared them to nooses, is she like the racists and homophobes you knew too?

cbayer scolding edhopper:

where does one draw the line for making fun or people or mocking them in private company?

cbayer mocking mormons:

We once spent a full day of a road trip laughing while reading

the Book of Mormon going through Utah. It was pretty entertaining.

When are we going to see something besides hypocrisy and hyperbole from you, cbayer?

Pathetic.

[rug]

4. K&R

The woman continues: “Read the newspapers, 148 Christians murdered in Kenya, they’re killing each other in Syria."

Eden responds: “That’s not her doing that, that’s a minority of people not a majority. Have some respect. What’s that got to do with her?”

The woman admits: “Nothing.”