Indiana police find 47 guns in arrest over threat to elementary school

[Starboard Tack]

Authorities have said that an Indiana man who had 47 guns and ammunition in his home has been arrested, after allegedly threatening to kill people at an elementary school near his home in Cedar Lake, about 45 miles southeast of Chicago.

Cedar Lake police were called to the home of 60-year-old Von I Meyer early Friday, after he allegedly threatened to set his wife on fire. A police statement said Meyer had also said that he would enter Jane Ball Elementary School and "kill as many people as he could".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/16/indiana-47-guns-arrest-elementary-school

[Warren Stupidity]

1. 47 guns. No problem there. No need to regulate that shit.

[ellisonz]

2. Will a gunner here defend "unlimited gun rights" for this shit-stain?

[Oneka]

3. Neither

this, "shit stain" , nor any other gun owner,
has "unlimited gun rights".
You knew that though, didn't you?

[ellisonz]

6. So he should be able to own as many guns as he likes...

...and take them wherever he wants to whenever?

Otherwise we're oppressing his rights? Right?

[Oneka]

16. Read my post again

We allready regulate the things you list in your post, except for quantity, and there should be no limit on quantity of guns owned, by someone who is not probibited.

[Starboard Tack]

9. In effect they are unlimited. On paper, maybe not.

Cases like this guy demonstrate how ineffective any so-called restrictions are. They are nothing more than NRA lip service. Like a hooker with AIDS giving free blowjobs.

[Starboard Tack]

5. I think many are busy trying to explain themselves to their children right now.

The rest are probably busy trying to wash the blood off their hands.
Those with a conscience are rethinking their lives.

[ellisonz]

7. I doubt the first...

...think the second is impossible, and can only hope for the third.

Hey - two of the regulars here did a bit of a 180 because of this horror.

[Starboard Tack]

8. Momentum is building. Growing pains America.

[gejohnston]

10. 45 or 90 degrees maybe

not 180

[ellisonz]

11. You can't even do that...

[gejohnston]

15. you actually don't know where I was or where I am now

You actually need to read through my posts closer. It has to do with personality type than ideology or opinion on anything. I don't jump on bandwagons or get overly emotional. Right now GD and Meta are filled with rants that are a lot like anti Muslim rants after 9-11. This is after an election season of reading a steady stream of religious bigotry aimed at Mormons in those same places. My dad was a Mormon, so I took it kind of personally. So, excuse the fuck out of me if I don't jump at the wanted orthodoxy.

[ellisonz]

17. "Right now GD and Meta are filled with rants that are a lot like anti Muslim rants after 9-11."

Bullshit. Grow some balls, fuck grow a conscience, "get overly emotional."

[gejohnston]

18. sorry, that is how it is.

and next you are going to deny that there was any anti Mormon bigotry during the election? I got balls, and a conscience. Grow a brain and learn what a parallel is or the meaning of the word hypocrisy.

[ellisonz]

19. I'm going to deny that what is going on now is anything like what DU was like after 9/11

Don't drag DU into your mud. Fuck your gun culture - it's all right-wing scum.

[gejohnston]

20. I didn't say DU

IIRC I said what the right was saying after 911. Nor do I mean DU as a whole. Learn to read closer. Do you deny that anti Mormon bigots were given a free pass? Oh wait, were you one?
This isn't bigotry?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021996704
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021996549
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022003649

That is your idea of liberal thought and reasoned debate?

[ellisonz]

23. "Right now GD and Meta are filled with rants that are a lot like anti Muslim rants after 9-11."

I suggest you give it a rest. Turn on the TV and listen to the President. The time for this gun madness to come to an end is now! NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW!

[gejohnston]

26. let me edit that

"Right now GD and Meta are filled with rants that are a lot like right's anti Muslim rants after 9-11."
and the anti Mormon rants during the election.

[Straw Man]

44. Feel free to disagree, ...

... but I have a conscience, and I have searched it in the face of this horrible tragedy. Nothing I have found in the way I have lived my life or the beliefs I have expressed indicates to me that I have any blood on my hands. I am in favor of anything that would have prevented this tragedy. Nothing I have seen proposed -- short of the complete elimination of private ownership of firearms -- would have done so. And if we woke up tomorrow and there were no more guns in the world, there would still be vile acts perpetrated by sick or evil people.

Very little I see on mass media or social media now has anything to do with reasoned response or practical action. People who have a visceral hatred of guns and the people who own them are giving free vent to their rage. I see them whipping themselves into a frenzy of moral indignation that has gone far beyond politics and policy. It has the flavor of religious hysteria. It will not yield any positive result. It is just more rancor and poison in an already rancorous and poisonous political climate. And it does not honor the memory of the dead.

You want to talk about guns? Sure, we'll talk about guns. Guns can kill people. Lever-action guns like the cowboys used were the "assault weapons" of their day. Even double-barrel shotguns can kill lots of people, if those people are unarmed and helpless. You have expressed the belief that people should be able to keep firearms in their homes for their own defense. That is exactly what the shooter's mother did: keep legal, registered guns in her home. She didn't imagine that her mentally-ill son would murder her and help himself to what he needed for his spree.

So let's also talk about mental health and the fatally bad judgement exercised by the killer's mother, shall we? Except that it's much harder to work up a really good, adrenalizing, righteous frenzy over those issues, isn't it.

So carry on talking about "shitstains" and "RW scum" and "NRA trolls" and "blood on your hands." I swear that some on here are as vicious as Freepers, just on different issues. I thought our party was better than that. I guess I was wrong: another disillusionment that comes with age.

My beliefs have not changed. My conscience is clear. You do not occupy the moral high ground.

[Starboard Tack]

47. Tell you what. Don't lump me in with extremists and I'll do the same.

I've never used the words "shitstains" or "RW scum". I said that some are busy trying to wash the blood off their hands. Only they know who they are. I also claim no moral high ground.
We are all part of this society and IMO we share the blame and responsibility for tragedies such as this. I don't see your face in my mirror. You are not someone I have to answer every day of my life.
Yes we should talk about mental health and healthcare in general and everything that is broken in this society. And we should figure out how to stop children dying violently, every day, in the streets and schools and homes of this nation.
The question is, who is prepared to give up this idiotic so-called "right" to carry a gun, in order to save a child's life?
Where are our children's rights? The right to grow up for starters.

Now, let's work on solutions rather than beating ourselves to a pulp over this.
The mother in this case did not secure her firearms. Big fail! Impose huge penalties on those who do the same.
No civilian guns in the public arena, without special permit issued via rigorous process.
Regular (annual) accountability checks on all firearms owned.
Annual psych review for all special permit holders, including cops.

[Clames]

21. Your dishonesty is showing again.

"Unlimited gun rights"...a fantasy term you cling to.

[ellisonz]

22. So how many guns should you be allowed to own...

...and where should you not be able to tote?

[Clames]

25. Same as the number of houses, cars, TVs, graphing calculators, stamps, computers, cell phones,...

...lawn mowers, mechanics and carpentry tools, and a vast number of other categories that I own and I'll take them anywhere I am legally allowed to. Not a damn thing you can do about it in this country either...

[gejohnston]

4. media

&list=HL1355689604&index=2

[ileus]

12. Hopefully they can find a much safer home now.

Sounds like old Von is an idiot-ass drunk.

[Starboard Tack]

13. How many Vons are out there? One is too many.

[ileus]

14. Of that you're correct.

The wife of a patient called the clinic and told them her husband was going to shoot up the clinic a few months ago. After speaking with her my wife called 911. When he showed up there were plenty of LEO's there, my wife met him at the door and have a conversation with him before his appointment. Strangely enough he wasn't even questioned by the police....Oh and he'd tried to set his ex-wife on fire a few years back.

They try and refer patients to a couple of local mental health hospitals every week, most all are refused.

[Starboard Tack]

29. Wow! That is a big part of the problem

Add to it the universal access to all kinds of guns. Let's face it, anyone, who is determined, can gain access to guns very quickly.

[YllwFvr]

45. our mental health system is BROKEN

We seriously need to start there.

Do you have any idea how many domestics ive been to where somone is absolutely off the rocker? I commit them and they are out in a few hours.

Ive forcibly committed one man to the hospital three times in ONE SHIFT. But if they cant prove he is a danger to himself or others they let him go. He can tell me all night what he is going to do to who and nothing I can do about it apparently.

Ive even sent a man in who has repeatedly overdosed on Rx meds and has had to be saved at the hospital. They refused to keep him once he was better, mental health refused, and so did rehab.

IM doing MY job. As frustrating as it can be. The system is broken. Being able to effectively label someone as mentally incapable should be actually possible before they kill someone.

[Starboard Tack]

46. I agree completely.

A few months after Columbine, one of my daughter's friends in high school started talking about shooting people, including her mother (my ex) and his family. He claimed he'd already killed the neighbor's pets. My daughter and her girlfriend took him to the ER and were turned away because he was a minor and they could do nothing without his parents' permission.
His moods became darker and darker and the threats became more frequent. We informed his parents, who brushed it all off as nothing to be concerned about. They were in total denial. He had access to his father's handgun, which he showed my daughter.
At this point, my ex and I went to the HS and spoke with the principal and his wife, who was the student counselor. They were very sympathetic, but also said there was little they could do, as his parents, whom they'd also spoken with, seemed to be in denial.
Thing came to a head when he finally called the cops on himself from a pay phone at school, telling them if they didn't come get him he was going Columbine.
Fortunately, they came, he got help and is OK today, but it was a nightmare for several weeks back then.

Severe depression or other mental disorders and access to firearms is a volatile mix. Both need to be fixed IMO.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

24. So...

...if some of you disagree with laws that limit gun purchases to two or three a month....might it be safe to say that someone who spends $100,000 on guns may be missing a few marbles?

[Clames]

27. Worthless law that has proven to have zero effect on crime.

Aurora proved that wrong (1 gun a month for 3 months), VT proved that wrong, and now CT has proved it wrong.

People can spend their money however they like. Might be safe to say someone who spends $100,000 decorating their house for Christmas might be a little screwy but it's their damn money.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

28. Both are absurd

But equating buying $100,000 on Christmas lights with $100,000 on guns is crazier.

Tell me...have you spent $100k on guns?

PS - when you say 'proved wrong,' what do you mean? Proved what? Did they delay the perhaps inevitable? Is that what you mean?

[Clames]

30. No I have not. Not even 1/100th of that amount.

I certainly don't have any desire to make that level of investment but that could easily be spent on a single historical firearm. Bonnie and Clyde's firearms recently auctioned for more than double that for just two firearms. Obviously using monetary value as a barometer for "craziness" is absurd because the amount of money spent holds no value nor has any bearing on dangerous usage. As for that law, there is nothing to suggest it delayed anything. Obviously the Aurora shooter started planning long in advance. Who knows how long the CT shooter planned.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

31. $100k on guns? Guess It Depends on Who You Are Married To!

please join me in laughing...life is too serious lately!

[gejohnston]

34. if you can spend that much money on either

I would be more concerned about how many lives you would be destroying with your pen.

[holdencaufield]

36. "buying $100,000 on Christmas lights with $100,000 on guns is crazier"

Not to me -- I have a uses for firearms -- and absolutely no use for Xmas lights.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

41. So

...if some of you disagree with laws that limit gun purchases to two or three a month....might it be safe to say that someone who spends $100,000 on guns may be missing a few marbles?

[holdencaufield]

42. If consumption is an indication of the state of mental health ...

... than anyone who celebrates Xmas should be considered mentally impaired, right?

A collector might, for example, spend that much on investment quality firearms so if making investments are a sign of mental instability you might want to lobby to shut down the stock exchanges.

If your annual disposable income is $150,000 per year then, yes, you might question the wisdom of spending percentage of your income on a single item.

On the other hand, if your disposable income is $150,000,000 a year -- the purchase, while excessive, isn't necessarily a symptom of mental illness.

If you prefer to live in a society where people can be shunned for buying or using items of which the community does not approve, might I suggest the Amish?

[holdencaufield]

32. How many guns a month do you need ...

... to go on a shooting spree?

How does this in any way, shape or form address that about which you claim to be upset?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

33. So

What's the problem then?

[holdencaufield]

35. My point is ...

... you're proposal to limit gun violence does absolutely nothing to deal with gun violence. What you propose is a Bloomberg-esque equivalent of a Big Gulp Ban. You dislike gun owners so if you can't ban them, you'll be satisfied to annoy them.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

38. Wrong On Do Many Levels

I don't dislike gun owners? What nonsense.
I want to ban private gun ownership? More nonsense.

Did you miss the dozens of posts where I have stated my support for the 2nd Amendment.

What I want is for gun violence to end. I suspect it was a Freudian slip when you wrote 'you're proposal to limit gun violence does absolutely nothing to deal with gun violence.'

Will limiting the number of guns in the market place reduce that?

[holdencaufield]

40. You're not proposing a limit on sales ...

... or proposing any limits on the number of firearms in the marketplace. What you are doing is proposing an annoyance regulation that means sales have to be spaced out over time. Which, as I pointed out, does absolutely nothing to inhibit either the mentally-disturbed spree shooter or the criminals.

It's like limiting how much soda you can have in a cup. It might make you believe you're doing something to limit soda consumption, we all know it isn't true.

[gejohnston]

37. expending effort and political capital for

little or nothing in return.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

39. Is that What Gun Owners are doing?

If it doesn't matter to you, then stop 'expending effort & political capital' on it.

[gejohnston]

43. I don't speak for anyone other than me

you will have to ask each individual one. I'm expending anything to stop that idea. Given drops in wages, "right to work" laws, you won't have to do anything to get the same effect. The Republicans are doing it for you, indirectly. How many people do you know can buy more than one $300-$1200 item that is, basically, a luxury for most people?