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oneshooter

(8,614 posts)
Sun Feb 22, 2015, 12:10 AM Feb 2015

My day today

A year or so I bought a small private firearms collection from an individual. I really only wanted three pieces but the owner said "All or none." So i purchased the entire collection, which consisted of seven rifles and six handguns. Since the purchase I have reviewed the current cost of those pieces that I wished to sell off. When I purchased them the serial numbers were recorded in my personal log book along with the name and ID of the seller, photos of the weapons, along with the date of transfer. A complete receipt was written with descriptions and serial numbers, signed by the previous owner and myself.
Today I took the two rifles and four handguns to a local gun show where I sold them for cash. Again full receipts were written and signed, with either Texas DL or Texas CHL recorded. This information is put into my personal log as a sale.

1. Am I getting too detailed on my record keeping?

2. Am I not keeping and recording enough information?

3. What do you believe would improve my logs.

4. Any suggestions to simplify or improve my record keeping.

6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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My day today (Original Post) oneshooter Feb 2015 OP
A Type 3 FFL (Curio & Relic)requires you to keep a bound book with the information you describe tularetom Feb 2015 #1
I am not a FFL holder. oneshooter Feb 2015 #2
I get that tularetom Feb 2015 #3
Have to love that ten day wait Duckhunter935 Feb 2015 #4
Thank you Ducks and TT. oneshooter Feb 2015 #5
The "engage(d) in the business" phrase is defined in 18 USC 921 (a)(21) petronius Feb 2015 #6

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
1. A Type 3 FFL (Curio & Relic)requires you to keep a bound book with the information you describe
Sun Feb 22, 2015, 12:32 AM
Feb 2015

Date of purchase, name of seller, description and serial number of firearms. It applies generally to guns more than 50 years old. The information they require in the "bound book" seems in line with the records you are keeping. Whether or not the firearms you bought and subsequently sold qualify as curios and relics, it would seem that you are doing the right thing. I wouldn't do any more than they (BATFE) require.

"the license will entitle you to acquire firearms, classified as curios or relics, in interstate or foreign commerce. You may dispose of curios and relics to any person, not otherwise prohibited by the Gun Control Act of 1968, residing within your state, and to any other Federal firearms licensee in any state. It must be emphasized that the collector's license being applied for pertains exclusively to firearms classified as curios and relics, and its purpose is to facilitate a personal collection. You may NOT engage in the business of buying and selling curios and relics under this license."

I've never been certain what that last sentence means. It seems to contradict the second sentence.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
3. I get that
Sun Feb 22, 2015, 12:56 AM
Feb 2015

I'm suggesting that the requirements for record keeping for the C&R license might be a good guideline for you.

I'm also a collector and I've been meaning to apply for the C&R for a couple years now. Living in CA it's a pain in the ass to go through the 10 day hold to purchase a 97 Winchester that was manufactured in 1908.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
4. Have to love that ten day wait
Sun Feb 22, 2015, 08:12 AM
Feb 2015

if you have other weapons, what a waste. I guess it makes people feel good.

I think the OP has it about right on the record keeping.

oneshooter

(8,614 posts)
5. Thank you Ducks and TT.
Sun Feb 22, 2015, 04:15 PM
Feb 2015

I was thinking it was a good way, and designed a program just for it. I am surprised that the "other side" hasn't arrived to complain that i didn't go through a dealer, have a waiting period, or performed a back ground check on the sales.

petronius

(26,602 posts)
6. The "engage(d) in the business" phrase is defined in 18 USC 921 (a)(21)
Sun Feb 22, 2015, 04:27 PM
Feb 2015

It seems to basically refer to deriving a significant part of one's livelihood or profit, rather than purchasing or disposing of a personal collection.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

(21) The term “engaged in the business” means—
(A) as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured;
(B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured;
(C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921 (a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms;
(D) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921 (a)(11)(B), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms, or who occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms;
(E) as applied to an importer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to importing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms imported; and
(F) as applied to an importer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to importing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition imported.

(22) The term “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit” means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection: Provided, That proof of profit shall not be required as to a person who engages in the regular and repetitive purchase and disposition of firearms for criminal purposes or terrorism.
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