Democrats need to ditch the "gun control" platform

[Dwayne Hicks]

Every time Democrats talk of gun control and certain weapon bans it only hurts the party and allows rabid extremist tea baggers to steal elections. We need to get off the "assault weapons ban" since its a losing platform and frankly wouldn't do a thing to curb gun violence. Instead just fix the background check loopholes and put more resources into going after street dealers and gun runners. Even most Democrats do not want to ban assault weapons, as a gun owner myself I think its a silly knee jerk reaction. I am all for required qualification and tighter mental health screening.

[Vietnameravet]

1. I think anyone who wants an assault rifle is by defination a loose screw..

[Dwayne Hicks]

2. Define assault rifle.

An AR-15 is no more "deadlier" than any semi-automatic rifle. Including the M1 Garand.

[NYC_SKP]

41. Well, you know, those scary guns like in the movies, duh!

And they shoot bullets for ever and ever and they're like, you know, machine guns!!11!!!

[spin]

19. I would agree that the average civilian has little reason to own a true assault rifle. ...

and such weapons ARE tightly regulated.

On the other hand I can easily understand the popularity of the modern semi-automatic clones of true assault rifles which are legal to purchase without all the hassles involved in getting a fully automatic weapon.

For example, the AR-15 is an extremely reliable and accurate rifle that can be used for target shooting, hunting and is a good choice for home defense in a rural environment. The weapon is easy to customize and accessorize. It is also easy to modify the AR-15 to shoot a number of different calibers of ammunition by simply swapping the upper receiver. You could hunt varmints with 223 Rem. / 5.56 ammo one day and the next go hunting for deer, moose, black bear or feral hog with your rifle loaded with .50 Beowulf ammo.

There are many good reasons for why the AR-15 is the most popular rifle in our nation. The reasons are quite similar to why tablet computers such as the IPAD are replacing desktop computers.

[femmocrat]

3. RE: "most Democrats do not want to ban assault weapons"?

Do you have a reference for this statement?

[Dwayne Hicks]

4. Everyone I know

Does not support an assault weapons ban and they are solid Democrats.

[femmocrat]

11. Well you don't know me, but....

I am as solid as they come and all the democrats I know support the ban.

[Jenoch]

15. What do you believe will be

accomplished by such a ban? Will it be retroactive? If so, how do you propose to accomplish the confiscation of qualifying weapons in the U.S.?

[Pullo]

24. Please define "assault weapon"

Banning "assault weapons" is both bad policy and bad politics.

[ileus]

5. It's time we stopped being regressive on 2A issues.

[Dwayne Hicks]

9. I agree

We need to get smarter not regressive.

[ZRT2209]

6. an assault rifle in every pot!

let's start handing out guns to kids on the first day of kindergarten! what a platform --- we can't lose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

12. Pardon but...

...your hyperbole is showing.

[Dwayne Hicks]

13. What?

Did I even say anything remotely close to that?

[Lizzie Poppet]

22. Whether you actually said it or not is irrelevant.

Shush, dear...you're spoiling a perfectly good hyperbole tantrum.

[gejohnston]

23. would the NFA registration and tax stamp be garnish?

It seems that it would be hard to chew.

[ZRT2209]

7. Democrats need to ditch the "democracy, equality" platform

if only we could be ignorant hateful racist misogynist bigots - we'd win a lot more elections! so LET'S DO IT!!!!

[Warpy]

8. That same silly argument can be made

about the pro choice and pro union planks in the party platform.

The Big Ugly Gun ban won't be removed from the party platform. The reason for it is the number of mass killings that have taken place since it was overturned.

[Straw Man]

16. Silly arguments.

That same silly argument can be made

about the pro choice and pro union planks in the party platform.

Because keeping pistol grips off of rifles is as important to the future of the American people as a woman's right to make her own medical decisions and the right of working people to organize in their own best interests.

Does that sound about right?

The Big Ugly Gun ban won't be removed from the party platform. The reason for it is the number of mass killings that have taken place since it was overturned.

Hmm... Columbine took place during the ban. Connecticut has its own assault weapons ban that mirrors the expired federal ban, and the rifle that Adam Lanza used at Sandy Hook was legal in Connecticut and would have been legal under the federal ban. The Navy Yard shooter used a pump-action shotgun, something that was never the subject of a ban anywhere.

Perhaps you had some other incidents in mind.

[Squinch]

10. .

[Skeeter Barnes]

14. They need to ditch the effort to ban cosmetic features on rifles. It is misguided, unwarranted and

drives away working class voters. I'm not against background checks for all sales. That's a good idea but people in the same family should be able to transfer guns they already own to other family members without a formal FFL transfer / background check providing that the recipient is legally allowed to own guns.

They need to drop the AWB and focus on legislation that would make a difference like the proposed background check law. It didn't pass because DiFi insisted on adding to the bill her ban of rifles she doesn't know anything about but look scary to her.

[Eleanors38]

17. Little-known fact: "Guns" wasn't even MENTIONED in the Demo Platform until 1968.

By then, the Zombies had charted all their hits, and a walk on the moon was scheduled.

Just go back to when there was NOTHING, and when progressives fought for meaningful causes. Is that so f------g hard?

[otohara]

18. Who Need Dealers & Gun Runners in Gun Crazed America?

an 18 year old who can't buy liquor waltzed into a local store and bought a rifle. Now a girl is hanging on for her life - if she survives, she will never be the same.

How many times have I heard "knee jerk reaction" in the gun forums.

Dems kept their mouths shut in the name of "losing elections" for years. Sorry if dead children don't move you to do something, it does me and I won't support a Democrat who thinks like you.

[DonP]

20. What incident are you talking about?

"an 18 year old who can't buy liquor waltzed into a local store and bought a rifle. Now a girl is hanging on for her life - if she survives, she will never be the same. "

[otohara]

25. Arapahoe HS

she's in coma now from point blank shot in her head.

[DonP]

33. Typical gun control "fan", none of the details correct but demands banning something not used

A "point blank shot to her head", huh?

Where did you get that little detail from? Pull it from the nether regions most gun control "fans" get their data from? Or just something you saw in a movie once and thought it sounded "gunny" enough?

But even though the Navy Yard shooting (remember the AR-15 he didn't have) and this High School involved 130+ year old pump shotgun technology, you still focus on banning rifles that had nothing to do with either shooting and still account for less than 3% of all gun related shootings.

No wonder no one takes gun control or gun control "fans" seriously.

FFS, just once try getting the facts correct before you shoot your mouth off about your "feelings" and your rage.

[otohara]

37. Here FFS

Last edited Mon Dec 16, 2013, 09:04 PM - Edit history (2)

Google is amazing, even Bing works.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/arapahoe-high-school-shooting-claire-davis-is-in-a-coma-in-critical-but-stable-condition

I'll continue to shoot my mouth off because safer than shooting a gun. Although I have been threatened by the internet gun nuts. Scary people who were terrified and still are of the twice elected black man. Racism goes well with gun owners. Sorry, it's true.

Here's more news of poor Claire one of the small percentage of American's who get shot every year point blank or not.

Colorado's school shooting -- over in 80 seconds
CNN ?- 14 hours ago
The victim in Friday's school shooting in Centennial, Colorado, "probably was simply in ... entered an area where 17-year-old Claire Esther Davis was seated with a friend, "and shot the female victim point-blank" in the head. http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/14/us/colorado-school-shooting/

Write CNN tell them to stop telling silly lies to make guns look even worse than they are.

[gejohnston]

21. not a rifle

had a shotgun, but never mind that. He also had a machete and at least three Molotov cocktails. It seems bullying was more of an issue. Perhaps kids learning open mindedness and discarding the need to conform to adolescent conventions would go much farther.
While it is good to do something, it is best to do is something that actually does something.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_24721367/arapahoe-high-gunman-held-strong-political-beliefs-classmates

Mass murders, especially ones in school by students, seem to follow a pattern be it in the US, Germany, or Brazil. Bullying seems to be at the heart of it. Guns, machetes, firebombs are simply the means. The DP post reminded me of a quote by German Sociologist Wilhelm Heitmeyer

Among young people who resort to violence, there exists an intense desire to regain control over their own lives. For years they've asked themselves who needed them, where they belonged, but they received no answers to those for them very important questions. In such circumstances, shooting people in public can give a wonderful feeling of power and self-confidence, because you become the one with the power to decide who lives and who dies. And then you accept the less heroic moment--dying between the checkout lines of a supermarket--into the bargain.

[gejohnston]

29. It wasn't the lack of a gun

it was something else. Guns are inanimate mechanical devices that do not control minds. The idea that the trigger pulls the finger is simplistic and superstitious. Guns The same percentage of Italian and French homes have guns as Florida. That includes "assault weapons". They don't have the problem, why? The age to buy a gun in France is 16. Norway, Finland, Iceland, and Canada is probably about the same as Vermont and Colorado. Finland recently raised their age from 15 to 18. Canada lets 12 year olds buy ammo. They don't have the problem, why?
Where I'm from guns are available in every other home, had a high school rifle club. Yes, we gave guns for kid's birthdays. I got my first gun when I was in second grade.
I was the school nerd (complete with pocket protector) on rifle club days, I put my .22 in my locker unloaded, as did the "cool kids" who were also members. Nobody shot up the school.

[otohara]

31. This Isn't Norway Is IT?

Nor Canada, or Iceland and in Switzerland when they let you keep your rifle after your service - they take away the ammunition.

The blackity black man in the White House sent millions to the gun store in 2008 & 2012.
That will never happen in Norway, Iceland, Finland....

We never had rifles at my school, but we've had two school shootings. I'm very familiar with Columbine & Arapahoe HS's they are 20 minutes away from me. Neither school sports rifle clubs ...

Happy gun talk doesn't make me feel safe.

[gejohnston]

32. What?

Nor Canada, or Iceland and in Switzerland when they let you keep your rifle after your service - they take away the ammunition.

It isn't UK either. No they don't. Switzerland is the only one where you keep your service rifle or pistol, and yes you store it next to your privately owned guns. I was referring to privately owned guns purchased in a gun store. Target shooting and hunting are practically national sports in those countries. Iceland doesn't have a military. In terms of privately owned guns (not counting milita pistols and assault rifles) Switzerland is fourth behind US, Canada, Norway, and Finland. The only thing that happens in Switzerland when you leave the service, the unit armorer makes it incapable of firing full auto.

The blackity black man in the White House sent millions to the gun store in 2008 & 2012.
That will never happen in Norway, Iceland, Finland....

Had nothing to do with him being black, had everything to do with him being on the Joyce Foundation board of directors and something he said in one of his books. Gun ownership is increasing in Australia and Canada.

We never had rifles at my school, but we've had two school shootings. I'm very familiar with Columbine & Arapahoe HS's they are 20 minutes away from me. Neither school sports rifle clubs ...

what does one have to do with the other?

Happy gun talk doesn't make me feel safe.

Doesn't make me feel safe, nor unsafe.

[otohara]

35. What?

Maybe you haven't heard, there have been 11,550 gun related deaths in one year in our exceptional country.

Explain that away with more happy gun talk.

[gejohnston]

36. called the drug war

and gangs dealing with "business disputes". but don't forget the 100K-2M (depending on the study. CDC and FBI leans towards the more conservative number) of people who successfully defending themselves with one, mostly without firing a shot. The murders by other means, including the 800+ with bare hands, are just as dead and unfortunate.
Again, I refer back to the the head of the Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research for New South Wales.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/gun-laws-fall-short-in-war-on-crime/2005/10/28/1130400366681.html

Right now the Australian state of Victoria the Hells Angels and the Banditos are at war, they use sub-machine guns and real assault rifles.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/hells-angels-clubhouse-in-seaford-sprayed-with-bullets-as-bikie-tensions-escalate/story-fni0fiyv-1226730294655

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/sub-machine-gun-seized-from-gang-raid/story-fnhocxo3-1226659401117

Simple answers to complex problems are theater, and nothing more, they are not solutions. Next time you are at the library, check out some (kind of out dated) books by criminologists James Wright and Robert Rossi.

[Eleanors38]

39. There were/are tens of millions of households with guns.

And I got one for my B-day and for christmas.

Didn't shoot up any schools with them, either.

[Packerowner740]

46. Do you have a safe? Do you keep them locked up?

[oneshooter]

47. I have five safes. n/t

[Eleanors38]

48. Yes and yes. I am hardly unique, however. There has been

for some time campaigns in hunting, guns, and shooting publications to persuade citizens to lock up guns, with ammunition locked in separate boxes, when weapons are not in use. This campaign should be expanded.

[libodem]

27. Why the hell would anyone want one?

They are weapons of MASS DESTRUCTION. Mass!

[Eleanors38]

40. They are semi-autos, similar to the 108-yr-old one I have

in my safe. I don't know what you mean by "MASS DESTRUCTION." But there has not been a mass shooting (if that is what you mean) with a full-auto weapon in this country, save, perhaps, the St. Valentine's Day Massacre.

Please note that the Navy Yard death toll was accomplished with a hoary pump shotgun, the model I use for dove hunting.

[Straw Man]

43. Mass.

They are weapons of MASS DESTRUCTION. Mass!

Not at all. No small arms fit that designation, which refers to nuclear, chemical, radiological, or biological weapons. In this context, it's just hyperbole.

[DonCoquixote]

28. Instead just fix the background check loopholes and put more resources into going after...

Except whenever The O administration has did exactly that, the right wign screams bloody murder. The whole "fast and furious" scandal was done when Fed news Arizona citizens were selling gun to the Mexican mafia, but Jan Brewer stepped in and told the feds to back off. Everytime we focus on the sellers, there will be howling,especially as it was just a good ole boy sellin to just another good ole boy.

[gejohnston]

30. I don't like Jan Brewer either but

what authority does a state governor have over feds enforcing federal law? None. Was the US attorney too lazy to prosecute? maybe, and he was fired. According to the administration, Fast and Furious (like Castaway) had more to do with ATF incompetence.

[upaloopa]

34. This looks like a retread of the gunner debates from a year ago.

There really isn't any resolution to these threads.
People who want new laws post that and gunners spout gunner gun knowledge that doesn't mean shit to most people and ask rhetorical questions and regurgitate gunner talking points.
This is all a waste of time in my opinion.
People will still want guns and more and other people will want more regulations. What has changed?
The make up of the courts and legislatures have more to to with this than any of us do. Now the make up is pro gun the future may change things my not.

[Eleanors38]

42. Retreads fit the wheels of others as well, you know.

Maybe there is something that can clear out the garage: This whole debate is fatuous, involving enemies, outlooks and policies which spin off into the dark like space junk.

I don't think the controller/banner has been honest with the American people. They haven't defined what they really want, and haven't shown how this or that measure will address what they want. They instead use crap logic and poor reasoning in service to a prohibitionist model.

This, imo, explains the lack of "resolution" in a one side sez, this side sez; she said-he said rhetorical wheel-spin. The controllers started off by wanting something which is as unclear now as it was then. The result is decay.

[Straw Man]

44. Because ...

People who want new laws post that and gunners spout gunner gun knowledge that doesn't mean shit to most people and ask rhetorical questions and regurgitate gunner talking points.

... gun regulations that are not based on gun knowledge aren't worth a crap. We're seeing it right now in New York State, as police agencies struggle to cope with a vague, confusing, and contradictory creature called the New York SAFE Act. You can call the State Police hotline three times in one day with the same question and get three different answers. The state's SAFE Act FAQ has a disclaimer stating that the information contained therein does not constitute legal advice. How in the world are gun owners supposed to be in compliance when no one can tell them what it means? Cynics would say that the whole thing is designed to confuse and intimidate people out of gun ownership altogether. I'm inclined to agree.

The core deceit in all the anti-gun posturing -- the elephant in the living room, if you will -- is that the movement is driven by ideologues whose wish list extends as far as banning all private ownership of firearms. I've heard it right here: "If it points at you and a bullet comes out, it's an assault weapon."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=99602

That pretty much puts all the cant about "reasonable restrictions" in perspective. "Reasonable restrictions" are always one stop beyond what currently exists: the incremental approach.

[sarisataka]

38. I would disagree with the need...

to ditch the whole thing. The platform affirms an individual right to bear arms and, in general, calls for restrictions the majority of gun owners support. The AWB is a poor inclusion as the previous one had negligible effect. Most people agree it was a failure, though they will disagree as to the reason.

Were the platform modified to promote UBC it would appeal to all but the fringe. Dialogue can go forward about qualifications, FOID type licencing, mental health etc. These would have less support than UBC but are not impossible to get passed.

[Dwayne Hicks]

45. Agreed

The AWB did nothing to curb violence. Instead of talking of confiscation and bans lets talk about mental health .