Feinstein revives assault-weapons ban

[SecularMotion]

WASHINGTON — California Democrat Dianne Feinstein will begin her fourth full term as a U.S. senator much as she started her Senate career: fighting for a ban on assault weapons.

Feinstein's new bill, which will be introduced Thursday in the Senate, among other things proposes to:

• Ban the sale, transfer, importation or manufacturing of about 150 named firearms, plus certain rifles, handguns and shotguns fitted for detachable magazines and having at least one military characteristic.
  
• Strengthen the 1994 ban by moving from a two- to a one-characteristic test to determine what constitutes an assault weapon.
  
• Ban firearms with "thumbhole stocks" and "bullet buttons."
  
• Ban the importation of assault weapons and large-capacity magazines.
  
• Ban high-capacity ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 rounds.
  

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/01/23/feinstein-assault-weapons-ban/1856613/

[krispos42]

1. As I've said before (and been called a liar for)

People will still be able to purchase and own semi-automatic rifles fed from detachable magazines under the new, proposed ban.

[jimmy the one]

4. what good are they?

krispos: 1. As I've said before (and been called a liar for) People will still be able to purchase and own semi-automatic rifles fed from detachable magazines under the new, proposed ban.

No doubt, & some of them guns will be legal beagles; but the illegal ones will be harder to get, & some significant portion of gun buyers will be unable to or dissuaded from purchasing these designated assault rifles, which serve NO useful purpose in communities - and even to speciously argue there was utility, couldn't be furnished by another 'legal' firearm with similar firepower but less 'semi automatic'.
.. and please don't manipulate the last 3 words into some sophomoric counter argument, you know very well what I mean, supplied in brief without having to go into detail to pacify gunworld. (talking generally here, not specifically to you, K)

The expressed main (fabricated) reason for owning an assault rifle is to be on a par with american soldiers in a tyrranical govt, who come to get you, iow, to shoot american soldiers & national gds when they are perceived as being 'the enemy', by a small proportion of americans.

[pipoman]

9. There are millions

of modern sporting rifles in private ownership...literally millions. The AR platform has been the #1 selling rifle platform for 2 decades. They are used extensively in competitive shooting sports all over the country. Every weekend within an hour or 2 of any place in this country there are many, many people shooting modern sporting rifles competitively and for entertainment. This is without stating how many simple hunting rifles which have been used for generations are semi-automatic and have detachable magazines and/or thumb hole stocks. No, this one feature idea is DOA.

[jimmy the one]

15. guns & whiskey

pipoman: There are millions of modern sporting rifles in private ownership...literally millions.

Same with cigarettes, cigars, & chewing tobaccos.

They are used extensively in competitive shooting sports all over the country.

So what? if you wanna shoot an assault rifle rent one at a controlled 'Assault Rifle Shooting Range'.
Or join a well regulated militia, like the nat gds, or the army or marine corps.

Every weekend within an hour or 2 of any place in this country there are many, many people shooting modern sporting rifles competitively and for entertainment.

I think your analogy needs work. What you say above could be maybe 10 shooting ranges (by air) involving maybe 20 people.
If you meant by car, well make it hundreds & thousands, but again who cares? who cares if some high minded gun enthusiasts 'love' to shoot assault rifles - lots of people 'love' to do hard drugs too, or drink & drive, or speed, or do nothing, or dominate others.
Who cares which gunnut put more bullet holes in a target of some despised gun grabber politician? the only thing most reasonable people care about is how far a wayward bullet can go when mis-shot from a target range.

This is without stating how many simple hunting rifles which have been used for generations are semi-automatic and have detachable magazines and/or thumb hole stocks. No, this one feature idea is DOA.

I asked people not to make this specious comparison. (weeping, weeping)

The AR platform has been the #1 selling rifle platform for 2 decades.

which is the leading whiskey brand? (followup, which hard liquor causes most cirrhosis of the liver?)

[pipoman]

16. Enumerated civil rights/liberties..

cars aren't, tobacco isn't. The last assault weapons ban which didn't include ordinary hunting rifles cost Dems seats for several years.

Just because you don't know that hundreds of thousands of people shoot competitively every weekend doesn't mean it isn't happening...and it is..

What you consider a "specious comparison" is reality...further, you have no authority to tell people what to write or not write..it would be great if I could tell people I disagree with what points they may or may not bring to the conversation...unfortunately for you, that isn't the way a discussion board works..

[beevul]

49. "In common use".

"Or join a well regulated militia"

That horse is dead, and no amount of beating it, regardless of the incantations muttered while beating it, will bring it back to life.

[Duckhunter935]

11. hunting and sporting

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-r-15/model-r-15.aspx

[krispos42]

12. The legal ones are just as lethal as the "assault weapon" versions

So the much-ballyhooed law, is effectively ineffective, in that it does not affect the perceived problem it is claimed to address; namely, concentrated firepower conductive to mass shootings.

Despite the rantings of a few right-wing nuts on Faux News, the reason most people own AR-15s and AK-47s is for self-defense or hunting. But this proposed assault-weapons ban is about waging a culture war against the caricature of what is a typical AR-15 owner... the "Turner Diaries" race-war hopeful, evil government, jackbooted thugs, etc. Ted Nugent and those other ranting nuts. The guys running around in the woods wearing camo "preparing" to wage a guerrilla war against the army. Those morons.

Some fuckwad in Norway killed dozens of teens with a Ruger Mini-14... a gun that would be legal under both the old and new AWBs. The Mini-14 is a semiautomatic rifle fed from a detachable magazine.

If the Newtown fuckwad had had a Mini-14 instead of his Bushmaster AR-15, there still would have been 26 people killed in the same length of time, the same number of rounds fired, etc.

[JohnnyBoots]

14. I bet the Mini-14 is banned

on that new 150 list, specifically since it was used in Norway and the fact that it shoots the 'dreaded' .223 round. This is why I want to see this list, that is impossible to find on the internet.

The biggest mistake in all this legislation is the assumption that criminals follow laws.

[Puha Ekapi]

65. The Mini-14 tactical is on the ban list.

But the Mini-14 Ranch Rifle is not. They are, however, functionally identical. Feinstein is truly an idiot.

[jimmy the one]

19. norway bans rifle mags >3 rds

krispos: The legal ones are just as lethal as the "assault weapon" versions so the much-ballyhooed law, is effectively ineffective, in that it does not affect the perceived problem it is claimed to address; namely, concentrated firepower conductive to mass shootings.

The proposed awb law is only intended to be marginally effective, since that's all it can realistically be. Over time, the presence of quicker fire assault rifles would diminish, there will be no immediate affect.

.. the reason most people own AR-15s and AK-47s is for self-defense or hunting.

Poor choices for both, as expressed by most hunters, since the .223 bullet is meant as much to incapacitate as to kill, you're as likely to have the deer or bigger game wandering off a mile & dying, less chance of being found.
Inside the house an ar15 can fire thru walls & steel & metal easily, a risk to others inside, a shorter rifle or handgun with a glazer safety slug is a better alternative.
More lethal bullets or guns? how about 'more survivable' bullets or guns, for home defense. You really think grotesque wounds, dangling limbs & gaping holes a better home defense, all things considered?

Some fuckwad in Norway killed dozens of teens with a Ruger Mini-14... a gun that would be legal under both the old and new AWBs. The Mini-14 is a semiautomatic rifle fed from a detachable magazine. If the Newtown fuckwad had had a Mini-14 instead of his Bushmaster AR-15, there still would have been 26 people killed in the same length of time, the same number of rounds fired, etc.

norway news: Anders Breivik, the right-wing “fundamentalist” charged with the terror attacks in Norway, purchased high-capacity {30 rd} gun clips from the United States.. Breivik wrote in a 1,500-page manifesto that he bought 10 30-round ammunition clips for his .223 caliber rifle from an unnamed small U.S. supplier, which then in turn acquired the clips from other suppliers. Norway forbids the sale of clips for hunting rifles that hold more than three bullets..
sale or transfer of high-capacity gun clips containing more than 10 bullets were illegal in {USA} under the 1994 assault weapons ban .. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/60154.html#ixzz2ItyYKldO

[krispos42]

35. That's the problem...

...if Congress banned green-painted cars, then traffic deaths that involved green-painted cars would decline over time.

However, if Congress then tried to conflate reduced traffic deaths from green-painted cars with reduced OVERALL traffic deaths, it would rightly be mocked.


Well, if you ban new assault weapons from being sold, then, over time, the use of assault weapons will decline. But the total number of murders per year would not decline.



Hunters of "varmits" use AR-15s, and AR-15s can be easily changed to shoot larger cartridges that are more appropriate for larger game, such as the 6.8 SPC or the .50 Beowulf. The AK-47 style rifles can and are used for deer and wild pig, in short and medium-range applications.

I'm not saying that the AR-15 is idea for either hunting or self-defense, but it can be used effectively for both. I personally would prefer an M1 Carbine, but that's because I want a straight stock and a bayonet. But yeah, a .223 round has 4x the kinetic energy of a 9mm, so it will generally stop an attacker much better than a low-velocity pistol round.

And let's not forget that the police generally use AR-15s for their SWAT teams.


Your last two paragraphs are more addressing magazine capacity than the rifle used to launch the bullets. If Norwegian Fuckwad had had an AR-15 with 10 30-round magazines, the end result would have been the same as well. Likewise, if he had a bunch of 3-round magazines, the results might have been different regardless of the rifle involved.

[Eleanors38]

36. I'll speak to calibers and hunting...

In many (not all) states, including Texas, any center-fire rifle can be used on deer, feral hogs, coyotes, etc. This includes the .223. That round has been improved for hunting. Furthermore, the AR-15 can be chambered for larger, more powerful rounds.

FYI, the AK 47 "clones" are already chambered for .30 rounds, and suitable cartridge types now have the performance of the venerable .30-30, an old, effective deer round.

[Pullo]

38. .223 is not the only option for the AR-15

Poor choices for both, as expressed by most hunters, since the .223 bullet is meant as much to incapacitate as to kill, you're as likely to have the deer or bigger game wandering off a mile & dying, less chance of being found.

Change the upper receiver to one chanbered for the .458 SOCOM round, and the AR-15 has the firepower to hunt the largest game in North America. That 30rd .223 magazine suddenly transforms into a 9rd .458 SOCOM magazine as well w/o any modifications. The AR can also be configured to to shoot 9mm rounds as well as a ton of other calibers.

Feinstein's claim that her bill doesn't target or impact the hunting or shooting sports communities is nonsense. This bill is a direct assault on the shooting sports. I predict it never makes it to Obama's desk as enough gun owners and sportsmen will see through this charade.

[PoliticAverse]

51. "sale or transfer of high-capacity gun clips containing more than 10 bullets were illegal in {USA}

under the 1994 assault weapons ban".

Not true. It was perfectly legal to sell or transfer magazines ('clips') holding more than 10 rounds that were
manufactured before the ban took effect after the ban took effect. Magazines manufactured after the ban
took effect could only be sold/transferred to law enforcement personnel (and were marked '"Restricted for
Law Enforcement/Government Use Only&quot .

[Callisto32]

68. Depends upon what you are hunting.

.223 is NOT 5.56x45 notwithstanding the exterior shell dimensions.

Either cartridge is perfectly appropriate for hunting of many animals, and with the correct projectile, is perfectly capable of cleanly taking medium game with adequate shot placement.

Depends upon the caliber for which your AR-pattern rifle happens to be chambered. .22LR right on up through heavy-hitters like .50 Beowulf or .458 SOCOM. The AR is a modular rifle pattern, as such, banning it is just banning "shit that looks like an m-16."

[clffrdjk]

50. So are we still paranoid? N/t

[PuffedMica]

66. What good are incandescent light bulbs, let's get rid of them

What good are families with multiple children. Let's get rid of all second children.

Once the precedent is set, the Government can get rid of everything that is not good.

Elimination of citizen's personal propriety (and rights): It's all good.

[quadrature]

2. simple workaround... remove pistol grip, and new barrel

if needed

[virginia mountainman]

3. Ban us from a Congressional majority is more like it....nt

[JohnnyBoots]

5. When does the public get to see the list of 150?

I bet they won't until it is law if it passes. Will they be voting on this today?

Thumbhole stocks, really?

[Yavapai]

74. Here it is...

http://www.nationalledger.com/politics-crime/banned-weapons-list-2013-over-515279.shtml#.UQMOr1eDl8E

[iiibbb]

6. Here we go again

Thumbhole stocks? In general?

Face palm

Let's make a dumb law.

Gun control should be as embarrassed of her as gun rights of Nugent

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

33. Feeble...

...that's the word that comes to mind when I read her "new" AWB. For that matter, feeble is the word that comes to mind when I hear or see her name; Dianne Feeble Feinstein.



Citizens of California should be embarrassed that they enable her to draw a paycheck.

[pipoman]

7. Awaiting the definition of "assault weapon"

Nobody could define it the last time without leaving 6 lanes of traffic on either side to get around it..I don't see this being any different. The original point of the 2 feature ban was to not effect guns like my 50 year old family heirloom Remington model 740 deer rifle which has a detachable magazine..if they go to one feature which will undoubtedly include detachable magazines, there will be a bunch of gun owners who ostensibly would support a ban on military style weapons who will be pissed to the point of voting against anyone who supports the bill..imo..

[jmg257]

17. SA with 'Detachable magazine PLUS 1 feature' is the 'norm'...

The 740 should be OK, as should an M1 Garand.

Supposedly the M1 Carbine & SKS will be called out by name as being AWs specifically, even if they may not/don't meet the criteria (say there is no bayo on Carbine, and the SKS doesn't have a detachable mag).

[JohnnyBoots]

18. For collectors in NY the M1 Garand

is now illegal due to it's 8 round capacity. Sad, I hope people don't modify them to 7 rounds and wreck the history of them.

[jmg257]

20. Don't agree, as the M1 doesn't have a 'detachable magazine'.

The en-boc clips may be considered "large capacity feeding devices", if so just can't load more then 7 rounds unless at a qualified range.

Same as an SKS - fixed magazine, can't load it or the stripper clips with more then 7 rounds.

[JohnnyBoots]

21. I thought that all mags, detatchable and non-detachable had to be retrofitted for 7 rounds.

I could be wrong, but nothing would surprise me in NY with regards to gun control.

[jmg257]

22. Exisitng legally owned mags/capacities of 10 rounds or less are legal, just can't

CONTAIN more then 7 rounds (unless at certain ranges). 11 or more mags need to be dumped.

So currently possessed 10 round mags for say a Beretta 92 are legal if they contain 7 rounds or less; all 15 round mags are illegal. Any newly purchased mags/capacities must be 7 rounds or less.

[JohnnyBoots]

25. Who's on first?

It just seems silly to me.

[jmg257]

26. That whole 'contain more then...' was pretty clever way of 'slightly grandfathering', of course

trying to decipher shit like "ammunition feeding device" to see what it includes is goofy.

Oh - they also refer to a section of federal code for a list of guns that are exempt, except that the section "Appendix A" 18 USC 922 was repealed 8 years ago...so WTF???

[Straw Man]

59. Garands

Here's the thing: you can't put seven rounds in a Garand en-bloc clip. It's not a stripper -- it's a metal box that is just big enough to hold the eight rounds, which stay in by virtue of the tightness of the fit. Try to put seven in and they will all fall out as soon as you pick up the clip. You might be able to do it by using a dummy round as the eighth round. Obviously it would have to be on the bottom -- the last round to feed -- because once you feed the dummy, the action will no longer cycle.

There are five-round Garand mags for hunting and two-round mags for some target events (ten-round course of fire requires a standard eight plus a two), but they are more expensive and harder to find.

[jmg257]

60. Actually 7 rounds stay in pretty well. The 5 rounders are $10 at CTD.

Most annoying thing would be going through all those bandoliers and pulling 1 round out of each clip.

[Straw Man]

61. Only if you hold them upright.

OK for loading at the range, not OK for storing/transporting loaded clips.

If they decide that the en-blocs are in fact "detachable magazines," then those bandoliers with pre-loaded clips are illegal to begin with: they're loaded beyond the seven-round limit. And the Garand becomes an AW because it has a bayonet lug. Of course, it can be classified as Curio & Relic: it would have to be registered, but it could still be transferred, AFAIK. I don't see anything on the FAQ about Garands. I'm going to have to call the hotline.

I get eight-rounders for $1.99 from Numrich.

[jmg257]

62. En bloc equaling detachable magazine would have to be a stretch...

Last edited Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:58 AM - Edit history (2)

Most argue they aren't even 'feeding devices', as they load the fixed magazine, not the chamber (DOJ, CA DOJ included)...which would mean stripper clips would be fine too.


You are right per ammo..I keep thinking already owned, not new purchases.

[Straw Man]

63. I'm with you.

The problem is that the new law doesn't have a category for what they actually are. I would argue that they are a "loading device," not a magazine or a feeding device. The fact that they stay in the rifle muddies the waters a little bit, though.

Here's a head-scratcher vis-a-vis the seven-round limit: Let's say you have an eight-round detachable for a handgun (grandfathered if you already own it): 7+1 is legal, but if you load eight in the mag, put the mag in the pistol, and rack the slide, you're illegal for the few seconds between loading the eighth round into the magazine and racking that first round into the chamber. Is this analogous to the eight-round Garand clip? Illegal in the clip, legal in the rifle once the first round is chambered?

The people who wrote this legislation really didn't know much about firearms.

[jmg257]

64. The more I find on en blocs & strippers, the more it seems they are

Last edited Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:15 AM - Edit history (2)

Just fine. NY would be unique in defining them as feeding devices. Whew...they can put all those rounds back now.

As for a few seconds of law breaking otherwise...yep..that would indeed be the case. Goofy stuff!

I read the new revised Penal Code, and the referred to 'App A 18 USC 922' exemptions are codified, so the M1Carbine should be ok too (thanks to Iver Johnson 50th anniversary M1 Carbine with bayo lug). Too bad the 70 yr old mags aren't.

[Callisto32]

69. Really, the M1?

I know a guy who has a revolver chambered in .30 carbine.

I fired it once and thought "I'll just stick to .357."

Why the hell would that weak-sauce firearm be specifically called out?

[Oneka]

32. She

Will specifically exempt many hunting rifles, to keep fudds out of the argument.

[jmg257]

8. Yep - apparently little 'gems' like these .22lr & 9mm are now assault weapons...

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Walther G22 .22lr
Bereeta CX4 9mm

[pipoman]

10. As is my 3 generation old Remington #740

semi-auto with detachable magazine..it must be an assault rifle..

[jimmy the one]

24. pipomans remington

pipoman, with attached picture of his rifle: As is my 3 generation old Remington #740 semi-auto with detachable magazine..it must be an assault rifle..

Reread the criteria for the assault rifle ban, is your gun one of the 150 named firearms or included in the certain firearms? Prove it then, money mouth, no drive by shooting:

Ban the sale, transfer, importation or manufacturing of about 150 named firearms, plus certain rifles, handguns and shotguns fitted for detachable magazines and having at least one military characteristic.
Strengthen the 1994 ban by moving from a two- to a one-characteristic test to determine what constitutes an assault weapon.
Ban firearms with "thumbhole stocks" and "bullet buttons."
Ban the importation of assault weapons and large-capacity magazines.
Ban high-capacity ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 rounds.

I doubt your rifle would be included, stop believing in wayno's nra propaganda & the 2ndA mythology.

[pipoman]

28. Except mine happens to have

a "thumbhole stock" made and fitted by my dad in the 1970's prior to his death..similar to this..



No, gun owners vote. Those in congress and the senate must be careful..even if their constituents agree on this, the danger of doing something to alienate gun owners is minority status for those who don't lose their seats.. Maybe if there were even a scintilla of evidence that this type of ban would be effectual, but alas, even with a 10 year trial, there is no proof of any such thing. What is it? 95+% of gun crimes are committed with common handguns? Is it worth losing political power over the many, many other issues we need Dems in power to accomplish?

[iiibbb]

27. They would be far better off making a list of excluded weapons...

... you would think those advocating a "regulated" militia could come up with a list of appropriate arms.

Let them make a list of what's forever exempt so that people can buy something without looking over their shoulders for the rest of their lives waiting for the government to ban the next big thing or screw up another definition. Let the manufacturers petition for this certification... it would be a selling point for me.

My main desire is to have as little interaction with a gun bureaucrat as possible.

[pipoman]

29. If they ban AR-15 by name,

tomorrow the new and improved AR-16 will be released and it will take, literally, an act of congress to add it to the ban list, and just as that act is wrapping up, out will come the AR-17.

[iiibbb]

30. But what I am saying is that if Remington applies for a certification "US AWB approved" yadda yadda

and the powers that be grant this rating... the AR-16 (if it were approved) would never be added to a future list. It would be exempt.

If it didn't get this approval, then no promise is made.

But if said Remington 740 semi auto hunting rifle were on the exempt list, then you never have to worry about _that_ gun.



Again, my main concern is not having the rules change on me; I don't want to be joe citizen today, and the joe felon tomorrow because I don't read a rule correctly or they change something on me. The primary reasons I got a concealed permit in my old stat was because the preemption rule... because municipalities had laws that varied from town to town. I got the permit so that I only had to follow one set of rules.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

31. I happen to like...

...AR-X.


Having a list is just so feeble.

[Ghost in the Machine]

73. Looks just like my Remington 742 WoodsMaster 30-06 w/ 4 round detachable clip

Now *this* might be a different story:



That's a 1956 Romanian SKS, with a TAPCO stock & 20 round mag. The bayonette is useless, due to the flash suppressor.. and I like the pistol grip because it's easier to hold and control. I use it just for plinking cans and 2 litre soda bottles because the ammo (7.62x39) is cheap... $4.97/box at wally world. I wouldn't ever use it to deer hunt with though because A: It's not legal in my state to hunt with *ANY* FMJ ammo, and B: because the 122gr bullet doesn't have the knock-down power like the 180gr 30-06 or 30-30 round. The magazine isn't much of a problem, as TAPCO also makes a 5 round and 10 round mag. I've heard they are developing some non FMJ 7.62x39 ammo to make them legal to hunt with... I'm not sure if it's true or not, but heard it from the local gun shop owner.

[holdencaufield]

13. That is ONE butt-ugly gun ...

... does it fire lasers?

[jmg257]

23. Ha - it can - from right under the barrel! nt

[JohnnyBoots]

39. I think they actually have the Berretta up on the wall at the Feinstein presser.

It's dressed up with a front grip and a light to make it look extra scary. This is bascially a 9mm pistol in a carbine stock...the more concealable and easy to drop Berretta PXStorm in 9mm is perfect legal though. This shows their real agenda.

[raidert05]

54. Man

Them sure are some scary looking assault rifles.....

[hack89]

34. Dead on arrival in the Senate

Last edited Thu Jan 24, 2013, 02:01 PM - Edit history (1)

If there is a path to new gun laws, it has to come through West Virginia and a dozen other states with Democratic senators like Mr. Manchin who are confronting galvanized constituencies that view any effort to tighten gun laws as an infringement.

On Thursday a group of Democratic senators led by Dianne Feinstein of California plans to introduce a bill that would outlaw more than 100 different assault weapons, setting up what promises to be a fraught and divisive debate over gun control in Congress in the coming weeks. But a number of centrist lawmakers like Mr. Manchin have already thrown the measure’s fate into question, saying that all they are willing to support for now is a stronger background check system.

After talking with the group for nearly two hours, Mr. Manchin left the meeting saying he was not at all comfortable with supporting the assault weapons ban favored by many of his colleagues in Congress.

Mr. Manchin is just the beginning of gun control advocates’ worries. Of far greater concern are Democrats who are up for re-election in 2014. Those include senators like Max Baucus of Montana, who was awarded an A+ rating from the N.R.A. Mr. Baucus has worded his comments on the subject carefully, bracketing them with gun rights-friendly language, like saying the “culture of violence” needs to be seriously examined along with any changes to the law.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/24/us/politics/democratic-senators-face-gun-owners-roused-by-talk-of-new-laws.html?pagewanted=all

[Puha Ekapi]

37. This idiotic...

...bill is a disaster for Democrats. One almost wonders if Feinstein is a Secret Repube.

I'd REALLY like to see the list of banned weapons.

[Puha Ekapi]

40. I'm wondering...

...when we might see the text of this bill.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

41. Reviving...

...anything with such a fetishistic interest that's dead for so long can get you up to 8 years in prison in California. It's called necrophilia.

[Pullo]

42. Looks like she left the NFA stuff out of this version

The bill that she had on her website a few weeks ago included things like requiring all grandfathered existing "assault" weapons to be registered under the NFA, and banned the sale and transfer of existing AW's.(including passing them on through inheritance) Same for magazines capable of holding more than 10rds.

It went even further I believe and required registration of all firearms.


The new version is a tad less idiotic, but idiotic non the less.

[jmg257]

43. Some new info - not the whole bill yet...

http://www.krmg.com/weblogs/jamie-dupree/2013/jan/24/details-assault-weapons-ban-bill/

"What follows are the details of a bill introduced by Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and other Democrats in the Congress, which would restrict over 150 semi-automatic weapons and place new limits on the size of ammunition magazines."

This information, including a list of weapons, was provided by backers of the new legislation:

Assault Weapons Ban of 2013

The legislation bans the sale, transfer, manufacturing and importation of:

 All semiautomatic rifles that can accept a detachable magazine and have at least one military feature: pistol grip; forward grip; folding, telescoping, or detachable stock; grenade launcher or rocket launcher; barrel shroud; or threaded barrel.

 All semiautomatic pistols that can accept a detachable magazine and have at least one military feature: threaded barrel; second pistol grip; barrel shroud; capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip; or semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.

 All semiautomatic rifles and handguns that have a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

 All semiautomatic shotguns that have a folding, telescoping, or detachable stock; pistol grip; fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 5 rounds; ability to accept a detachable magazine; forward grip; grenade launcher or rocket launcher; or shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

 All ammunition feeding devices (magazines, strips, and drums) capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.

 157 specifically-named firearms (listed at the end of this document).

The legislation excludes the following weapons from the bill:

 Any weapon that is lawfully possessed at the date of the bill’s enactment;

 Any firearm manually operated by a bolt, pump, lever or slide action;

 Assault weapons used by military, law enforcement, and retired law enforcement; and

 Antique weapons.


The legislation protects hunting and sporting firearms:

 The bill excludes 2,258 legitimate hunting and sporting rifles and shotguns by specific make and model.

The legislation strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and state bans by:

 Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test.

o The bill also makes the ban harder to evade by eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test.

 Banning dangerous aftermarket modifications and workarounds.

o Bump or slide fire stocks, which are modified stocks that enable semi-automatic weapons to fire at rates similar to fully automatic machine guns.

o So-called “bullet buttons” that allow the rapid replacement of ammunition magazines, frequently used as a workaround to prohibitions on detachable magazines.

o Thumbhole stocks, a type of stock that was created as a workaround to avoid prohibitions on pistol grips.

 Adding a ban on the importation of assault weapons and large-capacity magazines.

 Eliminating the 10-year sunset that allowed the original federal ban to expire.


The legislation addresses the millions of assault weapons and large-capacity magazines currently in existence by:

 Requiring a background check on all sales or transfers of a grandfathered assault weapon.

o This background check can be run through the FBI or, if a state chooses, initiated with a state agency, as with the existing background check system.

 Prohibiting the sale or transfer of large-capacity ammunition feeding devices lawfully possessed on the date of enactment of the bill.

 Allowing states and localities to use federal Byrne JAG grant funds to conduct a voluntary buy-back program for grandfathered assault weapons and large-capacity ammunition feeding devices.

 Imposing a safe storage requirement for grandfathered firearms, to keep them away from prohibited persons.

 Requiring that assault weapons and large-capacity ammunition feeding devices manufactured after the date of the bill’s enactment be engraved with the serial number and date of manufacture of the weapon


List of Firearms Prohibited by Name
Rifles: All AK types, including the following: AK, AK47, AK47S, AK–74, AKM, AKS, ARM, MAK90, MISR, NHM90, NHM91, Rock River Arms LAR–47, SA85, SA93, Vector Arms AK–47, VEPR, WASR–10, and WUM, IZHMASH Saiga AK, MAADI AK47 and ARM, Norinco 56S, 56S2, 84S, and 86S, Poly Technologies AK47 and AKS; All AR types, including the following: AR–10, AR–15, Armalite M15 22LR Carbine, Armalite M15–T, Barrett REC7, Beretta AR–70, Bushmaster ACR, Bushmaster Carbon 15, Bushmaster MOE series, Bushmaster XM15, Colt Match Target Rifles, DoubleStar AR rifles, DPMS Tactical Rifles, Heckler & Koch MR556, Olympic Arms, Remington R–15 rifles, Rock River Arms LAR–15, Sig Sauer SIG516 rifles, Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles, Stag Arms AR rifles, Sturm, Ruger & Co. SR556 rifles; Barrett M107A1; Barrett M82A1; Beretta CX4 Storm; Calico Liberty Series; CETME Sporter; Daewoo K–1, K–2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C; Fabrique Nationale/FN Herstal FAL, LAR, 22 FNC, 308 Match, L1A1 Sporter, PS90, SCAR, and FS2000; Feather Industries AT–9; Galil Model AR and Model ARM; Hi-Point Carbine; HK–91, HK–93, HK–94, HK–PSG–1 and HK USC; Kel-Tec Sub–2000, SU–16, and RFB; SIG AMT, SIG PE–57, Sig Sauer SG 550, and Sig Sauer SG 551; Springfield Armory SAR–48; Steyr AUG; Sturm, Ruger Mini-14 Tactical Rife M–14/20CF; All Thompson rifles, including the following: Thompson M1SB, Thompson T1100D, Thompson T150D, Thompson T1B, Thompson T1B100D, Thompson T1B50D, Thompson T1BSB, Thompson T1–C, Thompson T1D, Thompson T1SB, Thompson T5, Thompson T5100D, Thompson TM1, Thompson TM1C; UMAREX UZI Rifle; UZI Mini Carbine, UZI Model A Carbine, and UZI Model B Carbine; Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78; Vector Arms UZI Type; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson Arms Linda Carbine.

Pistols: All AK–47 types, including the following: Centurion 39 AK pistol, Draco AK–47 pistol, HCR AK–47 pistol, IO Inc. Hellpup AK–47 pistol, Krinkov pistol, Mini Draco AK–47 pistol, Yugo Krebs Krink pistol; All AR–15 types, including the following: American Spirit AR–15 pistol, Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol, DoubleStar Corporation AR pistol, DPMS AR–15 pistol, Olympic Arms AR–15 pistol, Rock River Arms LAR 15 pistol; Calico Liberty pistols; DSA SA58 PKP FAL pistol; Encom MP–9 and MP–45; Heckler & Koch model SP-89 pistol; Intratec AB–10, TEC–22 Scorpion, TEC–9, and TEC–DC9; Kel-Tec PLR 16 pistol; The following MAC types: MAC–10, MAC–11; Masterpiece Arms MPA A930 Mini Pistol, MPA460 Pistol, MPA Tactical Pistol, and MPA Mini Tactical Pistol; Military Armament Corp. Ingram M–11, Velocity Arms VMAC; Sig Sauer P556 pistol; Sites Spectre; All Thompson types, including the following: Thompson TA510D, Thompson TA5; All UZI types, including: Micro-UZI.

Shotguns: Franchi LAW–12 and SPAS 12; All IZHMASH Saiga 12 types, including the following: IZHMASH Saiga 12, IZHMASH Saiga 12S, IZHMASH Saiga 12S EXP–01, IZHMASH Saiga 12K, IZHMASH Saiga 12K–030, IZHMASH Saiga 12K–040 Taktika; Streetsweeper; Striker 12.

Belt-fed semiautomatic firearms: All belt-fed semiautomatic firearms including TNW M2HB.

[jmg257]

46. Some interesting points, though the exact wording will obviously be important...

All semiautomatic shotguns that have a folding, telescoping, or detachable stock; pistol grip;; fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 5 rounds; ability to accept a detachable magazine;...

Thats ones tough on the tactical shotgun market, if is as written.

- SKS not listed
- M1 Carbine not listed
Despite numerous warnings these would be

- Thumbhole stock may be only be banned as an aftermarket mod?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

47. Oh, Ima scared...

...

Them 'sault weapons is crafty. I bet them things be smarter then them terrorists on the "Watch List"; I bet they's smart 'nuf to be changin' their names.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

48. I hve a feeling she thinks "AR" stands for "Assault Rifle"...

lol

All AR types, including the following: AR–10, AR–15, Armalite M15 22LR Carbine, Armalite M15–T, Barrett REC7, Beretta AR–70, Bushmaster ACR, Bushmaster Carbon 15, Bushmaster MOE series, Bushmaster XM15, Colt Match Target Rifles, DoubleStar AR rifles, DPMS Tactical Rifles, Heckler & Koch MR556, Olympic Arms, Remington R–15 rifles, Rock River Arms LAR–15, Sig Sauer SIG516 rifles, Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles, Stag Arms AR rifles, Sturm, Ruger & Co. SR556 rifles;
...

This is a pretty sad effort. A few examples:
I'm not sure what she thinks "AR" stands for... but there a number of "AR" model guns that have NOTHING to do with military style rifles. Of the top of my head, AR-7 and AR-24 aren't even "military style" rifles.

I noticed this list does NOTHING to address the new generation of piston-driven sporting rifles. The AR-15 is a direct gas impingement firearm... the new piston driven rifles use a piston to unlock the action of the gun. Completely different operation. Thus they are not AR-15s (despite looking near identical) and will remain unbanned.

It says "DPMS Tactical Rifles". What about AR-type weapons that are not technically AR-15s, AR-10s, and are classified as DPMS Sporter rifles. For example a DPMS LR308 Sporter rifle despite being a .308 caliber "AR rifle" is sold as a sporting rifle (separate from their DPMS LR308 TAC20 models) and is not an AR-10 nor is it compatible with AR-10.

The defining feature of the AR15s is that despite multiple manufactures, all the parts are generally interchangable. Other than the manufacturer name on the side, they are all functionally the same. What is to stop every company on that list from agreeing to new standard dimensions on "XR-2013" rifle receiver locking pins, effectively making ALL the new XR rifles not compatable with "AR-15" rifles... thus making the new style rifles NOT AR-15s and exempt. This is actually why LR308 LAR-20 and other .308 ARs are NOT AR10s... they different designs.

If you ban something by name, people will simply change the name. If you ban something by type, a fuctionally identical and similar looking yet legally/technically different type will be made. I can't believe Feinstein is actually this stupid.

[Callisto32]

70. MMM AR-7

As a backwoods bumbler, I just love the concept.

[iiibbb]

72. I have an AT-22

Which in many ways is it's equal.

[iiibbb]

71. I am told that words don't matter in here. Who cares? Don't you care about the children?

I do happen to care about the children. Which is why I do care that any law that gets passed actually accomplish something that helps children.

You indignant folks reading this (not directed at onetenth obviously) need to get this through your skulls.

An ineffective law does more harm than good, and you won't get to keep coming along writing new ones so you better get the words right the first time, and you better make sure it has a positive effect.

We do care about the children. It is your lust to make yourselves seem better than gun owners who actually care that is actually going to hurt the children.

[Floridaphatman]

44. I think the weapons ban is the wrong approach

It would be much easier and quicker to just make all magazines over 10 rounds Class 3.
Now for you that don't know, having an unregistered Class 3 ANYTHING is some major legal problems that no one wants to have. Class 3 is the class of weapons that include Machine Guns, Suppressors, and Short Shotguns.
You would not be able to take your over 10 round mags anywhere in public with out being paranoid of the Police.

Its just an option
Although its a very painful one.

[gejohnston]

45. I would make the limit 20 rounds

with a five dollar transference tax as an AOW.

[Straw Man]

57. I've suggested that before.

20 rounds for rifles, 15 for handguns. Anything more and you need to do the Big Paper.

It doesn't seem too popular with the anti folks.

[iiibbb]

67. I've proposed this a few times. The Magazine limit seems to come up repeatedly

[Puha Ekapi]

52. Here's a gem of a quote from...

Feinstein's little press circus.

“Military-style assault weapons have but one purpose, and in my view that’s a military purpose, to hold at the hip, possibly, to spray fire to be able to kill large numbers.”

That right there tells you all you need to know about her "knowledge" of firearms use. Shooting "from the hip" is Hollyweird theatrics, and not something anyone trained in firearms use does except perhaps with a SMG at very close quarters, and even then, it's basically a last-ditch tactic.


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/01/feinstein-proposes-assault-weapons-ban/

[Duckhunter935]

53. I was trained

make your shots count, even when using suppressive fire. That is why the M16 went to burst instead of full auto. I guess if you toted a trailer full of ammunition and did not mind melting your barrel.

[Puha Ekapi]

55. Same here.

[guardian]

58. I think this sums up

Feinstein's entire knowledge base of firearms

[gejohnston]

56. looks like our Olympic ISSF teams will have to train in Canada

All semiautomatic pistols that can accept a detachable magazine and have at least one military feature: threaded barrel; second pistol grip; barrel shroud; capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip; or semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_GSP