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Mon Nov 12, 2012, 05:33 PM

This message was self-deleted by its author

This message was self-deleted by its author (TreasonousBastard) on Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:53 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Arrow 26 replies Author Time Post
Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
TreasonousBastard Nov 2012 OP
Tanuki Nov 2012 #1
TreasonousBastard Nov 2012 #2
Tanuki Nov 2012 #6
TreasonousBastard Nov 2012 #8
yardwork Nov 2012 #15
cbayer Nov 2012 #4
Tanuki Nov 2012 #9
yardwork Nov 2012 #16
obamanut2012 Nov 2012 #22
cbayer Nov 2012 #3
Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #10
cbayer Nov 2012 #11
yardwork Nov 2012 #14
cbayer Nov 2012 #17
libodem Nov 2012 #5
LadyHawkAZ Nov 2012 #7
libodem Nov 2012 #12
TreasonousBastard Nov 2012 #19
yardwork Nov 2012 #13
TreasonousBastard Nov 2012 #18
yardwork Nov 2012 #20
TreasonousBastard Nov 2012 #21
obamanut2012 Nov 2012 #24
Tanuki Nov 2012 #26
obamanut2012 Nov 2012 #23
Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #25

Response to TreasonousBastard (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 05:54 PM

1. Why should being gay prevent anyone from discussing any topic at all,

especially when that person has researched the subject and has valid information? I heard the interview, and the author was clear in supporting the individual rape victim's absolute right to choose, without judgment or interference from politicians or the government

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Response to Tanuki (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 06:09 PM

2. THAT'S what you got out of my post? The throway comment is...

what you reply to? I thought it was mildly ironic, and he made a comment or two along the same line but that was not the substance of the interview nor was it the point of my post.

Can ANYONE stick to the subject without getting sidetracked on personal issues?





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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 09:28 PM

6. Mildly curious

What are these "personal issues" of which you speak?

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Response to Tanuki (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:44 AM

8. I can't begin to speculate, but they must be...

matters of life and death to be more important than pregnant rape victims.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:10 PM

15. Your OP states: "A gay author speaking of rape...."

That's not a throwaway comment. It's your fucking subject line.

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Response to Tanuki (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 06:52 PM

4. Please see my post below. His being gay is very relevant.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:56 AM

9. CBayer, I certainly agree with you.

I never said that the fact that the author happens to be gay isn't relevant. I said that I don't see anything "ironic" about it. This was the OP's title and opening gambit and not a "throw-away line." I'm sorry that the poster misrepresented this on the Meta forum. I thought the interview was excellent, and as noted, Solomon made the point that he too is a member of a stigmatized group. It is regrettable that this is turning into what I feel is a personal attack on me and my "personal issues" instead of what the OP claims he wishes were a discussion of the issues raised by the book.

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Response to Tanuki (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:12 PM

16. Yeah, this is more of the same old same old.

Some people were disappointed to see gay rights move forward at the ballot box, so they take the opportunity to be mean to gay people on DU, and when they get called on it, they run to Meta and claim that they are being oppressed. This is a fairly transparent case.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:55 AM

22. This Xamillion

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 06:51 PM

3. It was a great interview and he is amazing.

His being gay is relevant because, as he points out in the interview, he grew up in an era when being gay was considered an illness. Thus his interest in how families deal with children that are different in any one of many ways.

Highly recommend a listen to this interview. His new book is called "Far From the Tree".

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Response to cbayer (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 09:43 AM

10. So you claim that 'relevant' is synonomous with 'ironic'?

Please explain to me what is ironic about the author being gay and having empathy for abused women? Be specific. You are saying it is in fact ironic so I'm sure you can explain that stance.
Ironic:
2.Happening in the opposite way to what is expected, thus typically causing wry amusement.

So in what way is this the opposite of what is expected? Gay people are not expected to have empathy or compassion?
Since you chimed in, please eludicate.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 11:41 AM

11. I made no such claim, BNW. You may want to listen to the interview.

I can't speak for him, but he speaks to this issue himself, and does so very eloquently. I am not going to parse words with you here, but his empathy, according to him, springs from his own experience of being different.

Why in the world would you want to pick a fight with me over this?

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Response to cbayer (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:08 PM

14. I can see how that's relevant but I can't find anything ironic in it.

The OP's decision to lead with the gay angle, and his statement that it is "ironic" that a gay author would write about children of rape, is odd. Every DUer who is gay who has commented on this thread and the one in Meta about this has commented on that fact that it is odd, and we've all asked the OP to explain why they think it is ironic that somebody who is gay would write about children of parents who were raped. By using the word ironic the OP is suggesting that there is something unusual and surprising about this. The clear suggestion is that gay people don't know anything about rape, or know too much about rape, or don't know anything about children, or....I don't know what to make of it.

The OP - if he were genuinely interested in clearing this up - could take the time to explain but instead he's gone off to Meta in a huff to complain yet again about.... gay people.

Got it.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:21 PM

17. I'm not here to defend the OP or their choice of words.

I used another word, relevant, to make a point. At the time, I did not understand what the complaint was. Now I do.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 08:38 PM

5. I missed it on the radio

But read everything on the link. Most interesting topic.


Too bad I'm so nervous about sharing. The stories I could tell...

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 01:07 AM

7. I've put the book on my wishlist for later reading

the interview was short but very good, and I want to see what the book has to say. Thank you for posting.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 12:22 PM

12. I came from meta

This is a very touching, fearless, and searching piece.

Asia wood cutters fit into this conversation, how? What did I miss? Woosh, right over my head.

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Response to libodem (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:50 PM

19. It's just about how the conversation can turn on a dime...

when someone gets a case of the red-eyed ass over a word.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 01:09 PM

13. I don't understand how the author's being gay is ironic.

I've read this thread and I still don't understand. "A gay author speaking of the children of rape....How's that for irony?" I don't know. I don't get it. Please explain why it is ironic.

What does being gay have to do with rape?

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Response to yardwork (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:48 PM

18. OK-- nothing. Not one fucking thing. Now...

that that's over with, what do you think about the author, the interview, or the book?

Or do you think my comment about him being gay is the most important thing in the world-- even more important than the children he's talking about.


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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:59 PM

20. I think that you are trying to start trouble and you're doing it in a group where I'm a host.

I don't know why you chose to post this here or why you chose to make your subject line all about the fact that the author is gay - and I still don't know why you see that as ironic - or why you chose to immediately go complain about the response (which I'm certain you expected) in Meta, but as a host in this group I'm putting you on notice. We welcome everybody here but we will block disrupters.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 09:49 PM

21. I posted this in this group because thought "feminists" would have great interest in the topic...

Silly me.

Block me from the group, if you wish, for not approaching the subject of pregnancy from rape in the proper manner. Apparently mentioning an author's sexuality is more important than the actual subject at hand, and if those are your standards you can keep your group.

Yes, I led off with that because it amused me, but I take the subject very seriously.

And what did you think of the interview? Did you buy the book?




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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:58 AM

24. Many Feminists are also gay folks of both genders

So, while we are interested in the subject in your OP, we are also interested in why you think the author being gay is "ironic."

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:05 AM

26. And I have to say that you don't have to be gay to take exception to this.

I am a heterosexual female, and it was my initial response above that caused the OP's prolonged conniption, in the course of which I have been characterized by him as ridiculous, incapable of sticking to the subject, encumbered by alleged but unspecified "personal issues," a purveyor of bullshit and accusatory blather, a red-eyed ass, and someone indifferent to the plight of pregnant rape victims. When I read the topic title and opening line, I found it odd indeed that the OP would marginalize the author of a study that he admired. I find that kind of condescension and suppressed sneering a worthy subject of examination, regardless of whether my particular group is on the receiving end of it. We all support each other in the struggle against this sort of thing, and I certainly appreciate all who have weighed in. Since I don't want to invite any further verbal abuse from the OP I don't think I will be sharing any thoughts on this thread about the book, my personal experiences with sexual trauma, or the experiences of an acquaintance of mine who is raising the beautiful and talented daughter who was conceived as the result of a brutal rape. Being insulted, bullied and belittled is a trigger for many of us and and that is obviously the OP's stock in trade. I will say that I find it interesting that someone who goes sniveling off to Meta to cry crocodile tears over children conceived in rape would choose "bastard" as part of his screen name, as this term is highly offensive and stigmatizing to them for obvious reasons.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 09:57 AM

23. I am also asking you to state how this is ironic

I also tend to agree with Yardwork, who is a fellow host of the FG, on the reasons for this OP.

Now, please explain how the author being gay is ironic?

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:00 AM

25. In what way is it ironic?

Many are asking why you used that word, which means 'surprising because the opposite is expected'.

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