Israeli Toddler Injured By a Rock Thrown at a Car in Jerusalem

[shira]

JERUSALEM — A toddler was injured in a Jerusalem neighborhood when a three-pound rock was thrown through the window of the car in which she was a passenger.

The girl, 2, identified as Avigayil, was hit in the head Thursday evening while travelling through the Jewish neighborhood of Armon Hanatziv, located on the Green Line which separates the West Bank from pre-1967 Israel.

The child, who reportedly lost consciousness after the blow, was taken to Hadassah Ein Kerem hospital where her condition was identified as serious. She regained consciousness and her condition was upgraded to moderate, according to Haaretz.

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/188539/israeli-toddler-injured-by-a-rock-thrown-at-a-car/#ixzz2m37JHjmy

So throwing 3 pound rocks that severely injure or kill 2-year olds is the birth-right and duty of Palestinians against Jewish colonizers (like this child) wishing to live in Jerusalem?

How morally bankrupt and utterly depraved.

I don’t romanticize the prick that cracked my head open. But I don’t find it particularly important if he is or is not apprehended.

-Daniel Seidemann Nov 24, 2013



Idiot.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

1. Shira, violence is never the answer. Neither is propaganda.

I can with good conscience state that *toddlers want nothing more than the security of their parents and love + food and other things of that nature. Whether they live in Jerusalem or some place else is probably not the first thing that comes to mind to them. Seriously.

But there apparently was a little slip of the lip, so to say, when you used the term colonizers. You hit that ball out of the park.


Also what, in your own words is...

How morally bankrupt and utterly depraved.

is nothing compared to the malicious and systematic destruction of the Palestinian people's livelihoods, their children's livelihoods and sense of self worth and human rights.

Also, thank you again for showing your true colors (aka cotempt) when an Israeli shows understanding and forgiveness whereas you, as an American (filled with hatred for Palestinians IMHO) can't possibly conceive that there are others who understand the situation in Israel far better than you could at your most or least moments of bellicosity.

*This goes for toddlers everywhere; Israeli, Palestinian and all children.

In conclusion, my toddler calls for my attention presently so I will go to her and leave the political toddler that I address now to the confines of her own hatred.

[bravenak]

2. +1

[shira]

6. And why are u robotically defending & justifying such a cruel act towards a toddler? n/t

[bravenak]

8. Why do you care, Oh Shira- She Of Phony Facts?

Why you acting like you're the I/P bully? What's up with that ? Is it because I won't watch your evil videos?
Ain't nobody justifying harming children, just wondering why you only care about Jewish children?
You don't care about the children killed by having cluster bombs dropped on their homes,so I guess Palestinian children are just nazi minion horde spawn.

You could care less that the IDF issues arrest warrants for 5 year old Palestinian children.
I have never seen you post one article about any harmful things done to Palestinian children.
You don't care that right now many in Palestine are drinking shitty water. It's getting people sick so I assume it has shit in it.

The only time I see you post anything about a Palestinian child it's rock throwing or trying to call them all terrorists. You forget that they have nothing. They're living on a prayer out there and there is no god.

[polly7]

9. Well said, bravenak. nt

[bravenak]

10. Thank you.nt

[shira]

11. I don't defend or justify cruel acts vs. innocents like u are doing....

I just asked why u do it.

So why?

You justify and defend by cheerleading Amira Hass' article about some Palestinian birth-right and duty to throw stones.

You just loved the writing of an Israeli activist who expects such behavior from Palestinians and doesn't care whether the culprits are held accountable for what they do.

I haven't seen anyone, whether u or any of your teammates here, condemning these acts. All I see are deflections, defense, justification, and tacit support & approval.

-------------

Your defense is to point at me, argue that I don't care, so you don't care either. That's a pretty piss-poor defense. I suppose that I and others here could use that one against you and yours, but none of us who support Israel here are that hollow or cruel.

=======

But to be clear, in no way do I support, defend, approve of, or justify violent settler acts vs. Palestinians. That is the equivalent of what's happening here. I believe what these settlers do to Palestinians is awful, immoral, indefensible, and cruel. Israel needs to do a much better job reigning these evil bastards in, just as they need to do something more effective against the stone-throwers.

[bravenak]

12. I never did what you said I did.

I don't have team mates.
I like Amira Hass.
I didn't say people shouldn't pay for crimes they actually committed. But terrorism for throwing a rock? No.
Causing bodily injury seems to fit better. Or property damage if they damage property. But there needs to be a jury trial of their peers ( where they live at)to decide if the prosecution proved its case. No taking them to Israel and judging them there. You go to trial where you live at. The people in your community are your jury.That's the only way to have a fair system. I do not believe there is a fair system for Palestinian children. I think they are being abused.That's what I think about rock throwing.

You seem to approve of abusing millions of Palestinians. That's something you need to reflect on for a while. Talk to me when you have thought about what horrible lives these children lead. Its easy to judge a dirty bunch of brown kids while living our cushy lives in America. You need to reflect on you're need to call Palestinians minions and hordes. Try to figure out why you feel the burning need to dehumanize them at all costs.

[shira]

13. You agree w/ Hass that Palestinians have some birth-right and duty to throw rocks....

You certainly didn't take issue with anything Mr. Seidemann wrote about last week.

And there is no Palestinian court or jury that would find anything wrong with these rock-throwers. It's what the state (the PA and Hamas) encourages in their media, schools, & government institutions. No one would ever be held accountable for rock-throwing in a Palestinian court.

But I agree with you that Palestinian children are being abused. It's just that I disagree WRT the main culprits (Palestinian adults and Westerners who encourage their militancy and senseless hatred).

I also don't approve of abusing millions of Palestinians. And I don't have a problem calling out extremists, no matter what side they're on, for the cruel evil bastards that they are. Jewish extremists who are deliberately cruel to Palestinians and Palestinian extremists who are deliberately cruel to Israelis are all evil minions and hordes who deserve condemnation. What's difficult about this?

[bravenak]

14. It's not just the children being abused.

It's everybody, and it comes from all sides. Especially from Israel.
It's doesn't matter if you think a Palestinian court would not judge fairly, Israeli courts are already unfair. Everyone should be tried in the district or city or area that the live in. Shipping people to other nation states to be tried by people unfamiliar with the area in which the crime was supposed to have occurred is skewed justice. To provide for fairness you must have a right to be tried by a jury of your peers and the burden of proof must be on the prosecution. Or do you hate the way we do it here at home so much? We have failures of the justice system everyday, only imagine how many more we'd have if the state were able to send people to trial in other states where they would be more sure to properly punish the person regardless of guilt. Think about that for a while.

[Scootaloo]

15. Actually, you do

Remember our little ethical scenario? The one involving a "bad guy" surrounded by a crowd of innocents? You think throwing bombs and grenades into the crowd is acceptable, because there's a chance of getting the guy - even though there's a certainty that an innocent person (probably many) will be harmed.

And your posts are nothing but a constant stream of defending cruelty against Palestinians, Shira. At least, when you're not belittling the holocaust by calling people Nazis for not buying sodastream goo. Or arguing the need for racial segregation. Or defending ethnic cleansing. Come to think of it, you have nothing to offer except hate, cruelty, and exploitation.

So, you can stop trying to wear those angel wings. Most of the shit you post would make Yitzhak Shapira go "hey, chill out."

[shira]

20. You're lying again. I remember correcting u several times on this already....

Remember our little ethical scenario? The one involving a "bad guy" surrounded by a crowd of innocents? You think throwing bombs and grenades into the crowd is acceptable, because there's a chance of getting the guy - even though there's a certainty that an innocent person (probably many) will be harmed.

The scenario was that a "bad guy" was surrounded by innocents but shooting at civilians, including your own friends and family. You had the shot and u could take him out with a bullet or 2 but he's just far enough way & your aim isn't all that great that it's very possible you could hit people surrounding him. You argued you would not take that shot. You'd allow him to shoot at innocents, possibly killing your own friends and family. I wrote that your choice in this scenario was cruel and evil.

And your posts are nothing but a constant stream of defending cruelty against Palestinians, Shira. At least, when you're not belittling the holocaust by calling people Nazis for not buying sodastream goo. Or arguing the need for racial segregation. Or defending ethnic cleansing. Come to think of it, you have nothing to offer except hate, cruelty, and exploitation.

Total bullshit, and coming from someone who sees nearly all Jews who are not anti-zionists as illiberal, regressive, racist defenders of apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and nazi policy vs. innocents. Nearly 100% of all Jews.

Who can take u seriously?

[Scootaloo]

22. Shira, a tip when accusing someone of lying - Don't be a lair.

Here's the subthread in question

You pose the question;

Imagine a shooter mixed in with a dozen children who are shielding him. That shooter is firing from among the children into a heavily populated area also full of children. You have a chance to take him out with a rifle and you're about 30 feet away. If you miss, you could possibly kill a child he's shielding behind. What do you do? Go for it and try shooting the bastard or allow him to keep killing the other kids? You only have 2 choices.

And my reply:

I'm going to make two assumptions here.
1) The guy is also armed with a firearm or other weapon that he could easily turn on the people around him if I were to try to deal with hte problem in another fashion
2) He's using cover within a crowd, rather than having the kids literally strapped to him like body armor or something.

If (1) is not true, if he's, I dunno, setting up a rebar tripod to lob flying pipe bombs, I go in, clobber him with the rifle, and bring his happy ass in.
If (2) is not true, if he's somehow set it up so that any shot I take is guaranteed to kill one of the persons he's using as a shield, well then it becomes a real dilemma!

So with those two assumptions, I take the shot; it's one bullet, with minimal risk to the crowd (Thirty feet? It's a rifle, not a blunderbus!) to take down a man who is a proven threat to other lives.

You responded by stating I had "cheated"

Yeah, I should've written you're farther away than 30 feet. But you're the children's only hope. You cannot evacuate the other children without more being harmed. But you did say you'd shoot. So there you go. If you miss from say 100 feet and you kill a child, I'm sorry but now you're a murderer no better than the shooter you're trying to take out. Killing children is not the answer to others killing children. Of course, this is according to your own morals and ethics.

My response is that I would still utilize the rifle:

You want to cast me in the role of Israel for it, right? So you hand me a rifle.

A rifle is a discriminate weapon. It's designed to sight a target and send a bullet at just that target. It's made for small-scale precision killing of individuals. It's a good choice for the scenario at hand, which is why police forces utilize them in hostage situations.

A bomb is sort of the opposite of a rifle. It's indiscriminate. A bomb explodes and sends concussive forces, shrapnel, and fire in a sphere around. it hits everything within that sphere. Man, building, goat, kid, trees, cars, pregnant women, houses, streets, terrorists, nursing homes absolutely everything. A bomb's purpose, it's raison d'être, is mass carnage and destruction. This makes a bomb - or grenades, missiles, or any other sort of explosive ordinance, extremely bad for the situation described.

Dissatisfied with this - you're not getting the result you want - you change the parameters, to some imaginary world where no matter what, an innocent is guaranteed to be killed with my action. As I had pointed out earlier, the only way for this guarantee is for an indiscriminate weapon to be used. As I try to explain to you that you have made the scenario unrealistic (Pretty sure even Israel doesn't use frag grenades against crowds) you make it clear that you have no problem with utilizing such a tactic. You give a further defense in this post.

Really Shira, dishonesty doesn't work when there's a lasting record accessible by a search feature, okay? This isn't an oral argument, like your little hasbara booklets presuppose, you can't be a liar when the people you're lying to have tools other than personal memory with which to correct you.

As I said. You have nothing to offer except the basest elements of a discussion - shrill, provocative, ignorant, hateful shit. And lies, of course.

It must hurt to be you. I guess that's why you're always so angry.

[shira]

23. Keep digging in with that bullshit....

Rifles are indiscriminate weapons as well, depending on the shooter using the weapon and the weapon itself (imagine the scope is off or the rifle is defective). No weapon created is 100% guaranteed and discriminate.

You lied by saying that I'd be okay dropping a grenade into a crowd. Just admit it.

And once again, for someone who sees almost 100% of the Jewish people as illiberal, regressive racist defenders of fascism, apartheid, ethnic cleansing and nazi policy....it's quite comical to see you calling out others for racism, hatred, and bigotry (especially nasty when you make up the charges and then attack).

[Scootaloo]

27. This is getting baffling, Shira.

Rifles are indiscriminate weapons as well, depending on the shooter using the weapon and the weapon itself (imagine the scope is off or the rifle is defective). No weapon created is 100% guaranteed and discriminate.

That's some real special pleading, there.

You lied by saying that I'd be okay dropping a grenade into a crowd. Just admit it.

Well, that exactly the scenario you created and then defended. As any reader can see. Stop with this "admit it" bullshit, it's a tell for when your ass is caught in a lie.

And once again, for someone who sees almost 100% of the Jewish people as illiberal, regressive racist defenders of fascism, apartheid, ethnic cleansing and nazi policy....it's quite comical to see you calling out others for racism, hatred, and bigotry (especially nasty when you make up the charges and then attack).

When the thanksgiving stuffing recipe calls for mushrooms, psilocybin are not what it means. Wow.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

31. Imagine, imagine, imagine...

Imagine that you could present a cogent argument for once.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

36. Show me the person that says I have defended cruelty towards anybody, let alone a baby,

and I'll show the world a liar.

[Fozzledick]

3. Another great victory for the heroic Palestinian Resistance!

Not to mention their robotic defenders.

[jessie04]

4. Those 2 year olds are a real threat.

Obvious sarcasm

[shira]

7. Here's an article glorifying these resisters of toddlers and babies...

Palestinians Display Weapons Of Protest (PHOTOS)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/22/palestinians-weapons-photos_n_1618399.html

These heroes are so cool, aren't they?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

18. I'm not sure why you believe that resorting to propagandism.

Last edited Fri Nov 29, 2013, 07:26 PM - Edit history (1)

The article that you posted in the OP doesn't have a culprit yet.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

17. Ah, I see that "robotic" is the word of the day for the apartheid crowd.

You, like Shira, need to re-read my post before you jump to completely wrong conclusions.

[Fozzledick]

33. It's amazing how powerful a single word can be when the truth is behind it.

Even if no one caught the obvious literary reference.

You seem to be having trouble with the first law as well.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

34. And where have I ever stated that I am for hurting any human being?

[shira]

5. You're right, it's not. So why do u robotically defend & justify such a cruel act?

And it's not the forgiveness that Seidemann wrote about that I take issue with. That's to be admired, actually.

It's his understanding, defense, and justification of such cruel acts.

It's as bad as understanding why some extreme settlers take out their frustrations against Palestinian innocents. The settlers have their reasons too, and they believe they've been wronged by the Palestinians for nearly a century. Imagine yourself justifying and defending their acts of hatred and cruelty. What's the difference?

Violence towards innocents is wrong, but you're robotically defending and justifying it.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

16. Perhaps you need to go back and re-read what I wrote

since you don't seem to understand it.

[shira]

21. I've read enuff of yr justification of terror attacks vs Israeli civilians.

They're all evil apartheidist colonists who are legitimate targets to you.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

32. So you admit freely that you didn't read what I wrote to you?

[Mosby]

19. Four arrested in Jerusalem stoning attack that injured toddler

Four people were arrested overnight Thursday-Friday in connection with an attack Thursday evening that seriously injured a two-year-old Israeli girl, the Israel Police announced early Friday.

The suspects, Arab men aged 15 to 20, were brought for a remand extension before the Jerusalem District Court Friday morning, police said. The court extended their remand until Monday.

The four, residents of the Arab neighborhood of Sur Baher, are suspected of hurling rocks at the vehicle in which two-year-old Avigail Ben Zion was traveling with her parents in Armon Hanatziv, a predominantly Jewish Jerusalem neighborhood just over the Green Line

http://www.timesofisrael.com/four-arrested-in-jerusalem-stoning-attack-that-injured-toddler/

[Scootaloo]

24. Good.

What brave men they must think they are. Smiling for the camera. Yech.

[bravenak]

25. What a jackass.

I really think a jury of his peers would convict him just based on this photo. His own mama would vote him guilty.

[Scootaloo]

28. Zimmerman chic n/t

[bravenak]

29. Exactly. So self satisfied.nt

[King_David]

26. Real brave boys?

Fucking cowards throwing rocks at a 2 year old toddler...

[1monster]

30. What difference does it make that the toddler was Israeli or if the child was Palestinian?

A small child was injured because the adults with the power to change things choose to perpetuate the violence rather than work together for a better future for ALL their children.

[Violet_Crumble]

35. It shouldn't make a difference, but unfortunately to some it does...

Some use things like this as an excuse to peddle hatred...

Poor baby. I hope she makes a full recovery and they throw the book at the ones who did it. It's inexcusable...