Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumMuslim Brotherhood Supreme Leader Calls for Jihad on Israel
This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Lithos (a host of the Israel/Palestine group).
According to last Thursday's edition of Al Wafd, during his weekly sermon, "Muhammad Badi, the Muslim Brotherhood's Supreme Guide, confirmed the necessity for every Muslim to strive to save al-Quds [Jerusalem] from the hands of the rapists [Israelis] and to cleanse Palestine from the clutches of the occupation, deeming this an individual duty for all Muslims."
More specifically, he "called on all Muslims to wage jihad with their money and their selves to free al-Quds"—the same exact language one finds in al-Qaeda's tracts.
If this is the position of the Supreme Leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, what can one expect from the Muslim Brotherhood president of Egypt?
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jpbollma
(552 posts)Probably not. I get more pessimistic by the day.
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)Jews, for centuries, have had to appease or cower in fear of the haters and the spewers of hate. Now, there is Israel; a strong country where Jews no longer have to live in fear of the whims of their host nations.
70 years ago -- this kind of thing was cause of Jews to worry and begin eying the exits -- today, it's just impotent noise.
That, my son, is progress.
zellie
(437 posts)
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)do you have any comment about that?
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)Just askin'...
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)sorry if that interrupts some theme here but it is indeed fact
MADem
(135,425 posts)the odd person, we send along a proxy from, say, Canada or Switzerland, to carry our water.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)seems a couple of people have some problem with fact that our that is American government appears to be working with MB in Egypt or at least my mentioning it
MADem
(135,425 posts)Why ever wouldn't she?
She habitually meets with leaders of nations with whom we have diplomatic relations. She usually makes it a point to swing by and "Say hey" when a new kid gets the brass ring.
She isn't going to be sitting down to watch a Disney movie marathon with Little Kim in NK any time soon, but Egypt is a horse of a different color entirely-- we haven't abrogated our longstanding relationship with Egypt--they're in the rarified top tier when it comes to our Foreign Military Sales/Aid list. We wrested their attentions away from the Soviet Union at no small expense in the post-Nasser era, and it behooves us to keep that relationship working if at all possible.
I don't understand why one would think it odd for a SecState to meet with an elected leader of a friendly nation, a nation with whom we've had tight relations for many decades, now--even if the nation elected someone who will be a paradigm shifter. It's what she gets paid for.
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)see post #23 then react
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)Au contraire, mon frere. I think it's hilarious.
You're trying so hard to get someone to come out and say that Israel or the US is intransigent when it come to dealing with the MB or Hamas or whomever so you can prove some point -- not sure what that point might be.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)but your own false accusations could appear a bit of projection
MADem
(135,425 posts)
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)
Violet_Crumble
(36,003 posts)That's the blog of someone who writes articles for the extremely anti-Muslim JihadWatch and FrontPageMag. Is it really necessary to pollute DU with that ugly crap?
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)Maybe he was "mistranslated"?
Violet_Crumble
(36,003 posts)I take it you have absolutely no concerns at all about anti-Muslim sources like you do about antisemitic ones?
btw, not good form to be asking questions when you just refused toanswer my question in another recent thread about what cultures you were talking about. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=14563
on edit: I find it really disturbing how yr ignoring blatant bigotry against Muslims and trying a similar 'but what they're saying is true' routine I've seen antisemites trot out over the years in this forum.' Here's the thing. Anyone with the most basic knowledge knows that the Muslim Brotherhood hate Israel and probably declare Jihad on it every couple of days or so. Only a deluded fool would attempt to claim they didn't. But if you want people to read about them uttering that, go find a non-stinky, non-bigoted, non-RW source to do it. There should be plenty out there. Don't demand that DUers have to accept extremist, bigoted sources being thrown at them unless yr willing to do that for all extremist, bigoted sources...
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... aren't incredibly bigoted?
They are de rigueur sources on DU3.
Violet_Crumble
(36,003 posts)Try sticking to what yr trying to defend in this thread.
btw, I added something on edit to my previous post that I think you need to read...
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... the report is true.
Violet_Crumble
(36,003 posts)Feel free to explain to me what yr not getting...
I'll repeat this bit: 'I find it really disturbing how yr ignoring blatant bigotry against Muslims and trying a similar 'but what they're saying is true' routine I've seen antisemites trot out over the years in this forum.' Here's the thing. Anyone with the most basic knowledge knows that the Muslim Brotherhood hate Israel and probably declare Jihad on it every couple of days or so. Only a deluded fool would attempt to claim they didn't. But if you want people to read about them uttering that, go find a non-stinky, non-bigoted, non-RW source to do it. There should be plenty out there. Don't demand that DUers have to accept extremist, bigoted sources being thrown at them unless yr willing to do that for all extremist, bigoted sources... '
So, what bit of this isn't making sense?
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)Good advice -- follow it
Violet_Crumble
(36,003 posts)That'd be you. But if copying and pasting bits of what I say makes you happy, don't let me stop you. I just hope you take seriously the thought that there's a real issue with the way you've chosen to ignore and minimise anti-Muslim bigotry, while in the same breath having a completely opposite reaction about antisemitism. All bigotry should be unacceptable, and it shouldn't be a case of condoning one in order to show one's support of Israel...
Here's something that I wish you'd take the time to read. It's from the ADL and it's about bigotry. I'm sensing I'll lose the interest of some folk when I add that it's about anti-Muslim bigotry...
Anti-Muslim Bigotry Intensifies in U.S.
Over the past few months, an intensified level of anti-Muslim bigotry has surfaced in a variety of public forums. While some of the anti-Muslim sentiment has fed on growing community concerns about Islamic extremism, much of it has focused on various plans to relocate or expand mosques around the country.
Several groups with extreme anti-Muslim agendas have launched public campaigns that have both sheltered and fueled this bigotry. Some of the more troubling public campaigns have been initiated by Stop Islamization of America (SIOA), the The Dove World Outreach Center, Operation Save America (OSA) and Act for America! (ACT).
SIOA, which has organized inflammatory demonstrations against the proposed Islamic Center near Ground Zero, has run bus ads juxtaposing an image of an airplane headed toward the burning World Trade Center with another building labeled "WTC Mega Mosque" and the words "Why There?"; The Dove World Outreach Center called for an "International Burn a Koran Day" on the anniversary of September 11 attacks; OSA has demonstrated in front of mosques and issued flyers that read: "Islam is another murderous cover-up for the devil;" and ACT is calling for an end to "Muslim immigration."
The intolerance advocated by these and other groups has been exacerbated by occasional calls for violence. In May, for example, Michael Berry, a Houston talk show host, said "I hope the mosque isn't built, and if it is, I hope it's blown up, and I mean that."
Incidents of violence have also marked the current atmosphere. For example, on February 4, 2011, a Muslim man was stabbed in the neck with a pocket knife at a bar in St. Petersburg, Florida. During a verbal altercation preceding the incident, the attacker allegedly told the victim, "Muslims are the root of the problems," according to the arrest report. In August 2010, a man stabbed a New York City taxi driver in an apparent hate crime. The attacker allegedly asked the driver if he was Muslim, referenced military checkpoints and uttered an Arabic phrase before attacking the taxi driver with a knife.
Some opponents seem to be taking their cues from public figures. In June, Pat Robertson made the following statement on the 700 Club: "We have to recognize that Islam is not a religion. It is a worldwide political movement meant on domination of the world..." Robertson's statement later appeared in an event announcement for a demonstration against the Islamic Center of Temecula Valley in California that was posted to a local Tea Party Web site. Then, at the July 30 demonstration in front of Temecula mosque - to which some protestors had brought their dogs to offend worshippers - some participants held signs that read, "Muslims Danced for Joy on 9/11" and "Mosques are Monuments to Terrorism."
http://www.adl.org/main_Extremism/muslim_bigotry.htm?Multi_page_sections=sHeading_1
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)But I know that in any other part of DU, someone with 14 posts who cites a crazy-ass hate blog won't long be posting.
But hey, so long as you DU's Team Israel advocates keep cranking out the puppet accounts, I guess we'll just have to keep rolling our eyes and pointing it out.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Anti-Jewish fanaticism was strong then and continued to be a strong force in Europe through WWII with brief periods of peace for the Jewish minority. The Catholic Church was a center of anti-Jewish propaganda and persecution.
So, this is just a continuation of a history of that persecution.
Unfortunately, a log of DUers do not understand the history of the Jewish people and do not understand why Israel is as it is and will probably remain as it is.
The Muslim world is huge and full of valuable resources. The obsession about Israel is just more of the same bigotry that has been around since at least the 14th century and earlier.
Violet_Crumble
(36,003 posts)A suggestion for anyone who wants to be taken seriously when talking about bigotry of any kind: don't ignore or agree with bigotry against other groups to try to get yr message across. Take a second or two to click on the link to the OP and ask yrself why anyone claiming to be opposed to bigotry would not have a problem with jihadwatch or Frontpagemag...
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)They are all pretty much equal. Fact is that the bigotry expressed against Jews is unparalleled by any other than perhaps a couple of our Congress members and the preacher who wanted to burn the Koran.
I may have misunderstood what the source of the story was. It is unfamiliar to me.
No bigotry is more acceptable than any other. But the bigotry in Europe against Jews has existed so very, very long. It is an extreme phenomena.
When I was in college, someone gave me a copy of the Koran, and I could not read it because it was so extremely anti-Jewish. It was very offensive. On the other hand, not all Muslims are anti-Jewish. So, there are bigots of all kinds, and also in all cultures people who overcome bigotry.
LeftishBrit
(41,239 posts)He is a fellow of the 'David Horowitz Freedom Centre' and writes for just about every right-wing source around, from FrontPageMag to something called 'obamathreat.com'.
I am no fan of the Muslim Brotherhood, but let us not oppose one right-wing and bigoted group by supporting right-wing and bigoted groups on the other side!
Violet_Crumble
(36,003 posts)It doesn't appear to matter how bigoted or RW it is. This sort of thing should be every bit as unacceptable at DU as antisemitic stuff....
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)
King_David
(14,851 posts)If we are to be consistent here on DU.
Dovid Rees
(21 posts)However when it comes to Israel, things are becoming consistently less "right" and "left" wing and just becoming a matter of right and wrong. There are a number of people who are normally right-wing who are very reliable and truthful when it comes to Israel and defending its reputation against anti-semites. On the other hand there are those who are normally left-wing who practically sound like brownshirts on Israel.
Israel is one of those things when a stopped clock can be right twice a day. It's unfortunate that sometimes things come to this, but we shouldn't be extremist on any issue. As far as Raymond Ibrahim is concerned, he was once an Arab language specialist for the Near East section of the Library of Congress, so he can't be dismissed completely.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)from 7/14
.......................................................................................................
On Saturday, however, President Mohammed Morsi declared to Hilary Clinton, US Secretary of State: "We are very, very keen to meet you and happy you are here," and heard in return her promise of "the strong support of the United States for the Egyptian people and their democratic transition".
She continued: "We want to be a good partner and we want to support the democracy that has been achieved by the courage and sacrifice of the Egyptian people.
"Democracy is hard... It requires dialogue and compromise and real politics. We are encouraged and we want to be helpful. But we know it is not for the United States it is for the Egyptian people to decide."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/9400749/US-Secretary-of-State-Hillary-Clinton-meets-Egypts-Muslim-Brotherhood-president-Mohammed-Morsi-in-historic-first.html
David__77
(23,778 posts)It makes no sense. This is a party that is dedicated to values that should not be supported by any republic, political party, person that accepts the basic premises of humanism and enlightenment. The US should not have interfered in Egyptian affairs to bolster, or call for the departure of, the former Egyptian government of Mubarak.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)lets review the US stayed pretty neutral leaning towards Mubarak, when it became obvious that his end was near the US considered pulling financial support from Egypt, the Saudi's then volunteered to anti-up the money (possibly to avert Iran doing so) at that point the US (Obama) began supporting the uprising and I believe it was the US that engineered the temporary compromise that put the Egyptian military in power
David__77
(23,778 posts)Yes, the US has been ambivalent toward MB in Egypt, at best.
And my main point, is that it is flagrantly supporting MB's activities in Syria, which, by the way, include things that anywhere else would be called terrorism.
A disengagement from the power politics would be good. Like, let the Egyptians and Syrians determine their own fates without trying to pour gasoline on fires that some of less-than-stellar strategic thinkers little understand.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)I would think that by now in the world of politics what is 'terrorism' depends entirely on who is doing it