Jewish activists launch crowdfunding appeal to breed perfect re

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/10/jewish-activists-crowd-funding-breed-red-heifer-third-temple-cow

A Jewish activist group dedicated to the controversial project of building a Third Temple in Jerusalem has launched a crowdfunding appeal to scientifically breed the “perfect red heifer”.

The creation of a Third Temple as a permanent house in which God will reside was prophesied by Ezekiel, and most orthodox Jewish authorities regard it as something that will be a miraculous event. A minority, however, believe that humans can build the temple.
---
The Temple Institute was founded in 1987 by Rabbi Yisrael Ariel and has recreated artefacts for rituals required in a new temple of which the red heifer would be the most ambitious.

Controversially it has been active in encouraging its supporters to visit the Temple Mount, known to Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary, causing friction at the site. The more conventional view of Orthodox rabbis is that Jews should not visit the site.

Religious RW fundies are looking forward to bring the "End Times" to a Mosque complex.

I can understand why the Palestinians are pissed.

[Mosby]

1. End Times theology is purely Christian

So maybe the Palestinians are pissed at the wrong religion.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

2. I can always count on you to ignore the article.

[Mosby]

3. I responded to your comments

I don't have a problem with building the third temple, both Jews and Muslims should want to see the arrival of the mashiach, who would usher in an era of justice, truth and peace.

Sounds good to me.



Edit to add: there is plenty of room for the temple and alaksa mosque on the mount.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

4. " I don't have a problem with building the third temple..."

Hence my comment in the OP.

You may believe that it is your devine right to destroy Al Asqua, but I doubt you will find many, if any, Palestinians that share your opinion.

[Mosby]

6. I said nothing about destroying muslim holy sites

Where in the world did you get that from my comments?

[Syzygy321]

56. I may be alone in this, but I have always wanted to see a big

green, lusciously irrigated soccer field for kids right there where all the fuss is. Coed of course, and nondenominational.

(There might have to be a thick planting of rye all around it and a teen boy watching from the rye, to complete the effect.)

[geek tragedy]

13. it would launch world war iii in the region, and would necessarily require encroaching

upon the two mosques in the area.

but hey, what does that matter?

[Mosby]

14. I don't understand

How would building a Temple on the Temple Mount start WWIII?

Not seeing the logic there, could you spell it out for me?

[geek tragedy]

18. for starters, every Muslim country would go to war with Israel,

and then the US would have to step in to prevent Israel from getting wiped out.

Probably unsuccessfully.

Leading the charge would be Jordan, whose treaty with Israel is contingent upon those sites being respected and placed under Jordanian authority.

[Mosby]

19. Huh, so building something Jewish related near a mosque would start a war

It would be disrespectful according to you.

Interesting.

[geek tragedy]

21. Is there anything that won't prompt a sleazy accusation/insinuation

of anti-Semitism from you?

Your crowd tried that on Obama, and it hasn't worked. Maybe you should take a lesson from that.

P.S.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.576829

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/sep/29/israel

P.P.S. Why does someone such as yourself who bashes 'the left' and does nothing but support a rightwing government post at DU? (Besides the answer that you're allowed to get away with it, obviously)

[Mosby]

22. sorry, I don't want to cause any trouble

but your excusing intolerance, that's not a liberal/progressive position.

[geek tragedy]

23. oh that's precious.

An apologist for one of the most racist societies on the planet getting the vapors over pointing out the contested and incendiary nature of that piece of real estate.

Feel free to disbelieve me when I point out the obvious, that trying to build a temple on top of two very important mosques, in a direct violation of a treaty with Jordan, would lead to an all-out war in the area.

Sure, no big deal, that's why Sharon's visit there led to an intifada.

[Mosby]

25. Dome of the Rock is not a mosque - FYI

And there is nothing wrong in building a synagogue on the Jews most holy site, unless one is an extremist Muslim apologist.

Not saying you are of course, I think you and I are not communicating well due to our "history".

Sorry again for the trouble.

[geek tragedy]

27. "there is nothing wrong in building a synagogue on the Jews most holy site, unless one is an

extremist Muslim apologist."

What is an "extremist Muslim apologist?"

Is one an "extremist Muslim apologist" for wanting to avoid a war that would result in Israel's annihilation?

[shira]

31. It's a non-starter & would never happen. Not even Bibi would go that far.

In fact, "SatanYahoo" doesn't believe Jews should be praying at the Temple Mount, let alone building a 3rd Temple there. No Israelis support a movement to build a Temple on top of the Dome of the Rock. But let's all pretend this is a realistic scenario that has a decent chance of happening...



This is nothing but hate incitement against so-called fascist supremacist Jews who are zero threat to do anything significant.

[Mosby]

47. I know it's not going to happen anytime soon.

But as a liberal I think it's important to push back against religious bigotry and intolerance.

Jews and Christians should be able to quietly pray on the Temple Mount if they desire to, and build a structure to facilitate that as well.

Unfortunately though we live in a world where building a house of worship in the "wrong" place is a profound provocation, one that otherwise rational people lose their shit over.

The American RW lost their shit over a mosque that was going to be built near Ground Zero and the left loses their shit over Jewish claims on the Temple Mount.

[6chars]

40. link?

do you have a list of the most racist societies on the planet? thanks

[geek tragedy]

42. "the left is busing Arabs to vote."

In a decent society, such commentary would relegate the speaker to fringe status.

In Israel, it gets rewarded with a crushing, nationwide electoral victory.

You can also do a google search for polls to find just how eager most dominant-group Israelis are to discriminate against Arabs.

Here are some highlights:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3381978,00.html

Over half of the Jewish population in Israel believes the marriage of a Jewish woman to an Arab man is equal to national treason, according to a recent survey by the Geocartography Institute.


The survey, which was conducted for the Center Against Racism, also found that over 75 percent of participants did not approve of apartment buildings being shared between Arabs and Jews. Sixty percent of participants said they would not allow an Arab to visit their home.


Five hundred Jewish men and women participated in the poll, which was published Tuesday.


According to the survey, racism against Arabs in Israel has seen a sharp rise since a similar survey was conducted two years ago.


In 2006, 247 racist acts against Arabs were reported, as opposed to 225 one year prior.


About 40 percent of participants agreed that “Arabs should have their right to vote for Knesset revoked”. The number was 55 percent lower in the previous survey. Also, over half of the participants agreed that Israel should encourage its Arab citizens to immigrate from the country.


Over half of the participants said they would not want to work under the direct management of an Arab, and 55 percent said “Arabs and Jews should be separated at entertainment sites”.

See also:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-new-israeli-apartheid-poll-reveals-widespread-jewish-support-for-policy-of-discrimination-against-arab-minority-8223548.html

http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/survey-most-israeli-jews-wouldn-t-give-palestinians-vote-if-west-bank-was-annexed.premium-1.471644

Israel is a stomach-churningly racist place, full of virulent racists. About the same level as 1950's Mississippi.

They do not share our values. More Saudi Arabia than United States.

[6chars]

43. Have you ever been to Israel?

[geek tragedy]

44. Were you ever in apartheid-era South Africa? nt

[6chars]

45. Ooh. Clever.

The problem with starting from a predetermined conclusion - "Israel is one of the most racist countries" and then making up your argument is that you miss out on all the disconfirming evidence. An alternative is to see it as it si, and then say what is good, what should change.

This is true for other predetermined conclusions. It is a fine way for a attorney to make a case in court, not such a good way to get at the truth, and a horrible way to find peaceful forward looking reality-based solutions.

[geek tragedy]

46. There are no reality-based solutions. they don't exist.

As an American, the question isn't how do we help fix that mess, it's how do we avoid disentangle ourselves from a degenerative, tribal land war on the other side of the planet.

Our foreign policy, and our political system, is far too Israel-centric. It's just another foreign country, and it should be treated that way--not as a family member or spouse. "Who loves Israel more" should not be a debate in American politics.

[King_David]

28. Is Mosby's views expressed here on DU

Any different from any Democratic Party elected congressional rep?

Are your views on Israel shared by any elected or congressional candidates for the Democratic Party? ( name one)

And this is a Democratic Party supporting site , hence Mosby posts here.

[geek tragedy]

30. The implication that only anti-Semites

and radical Islamists would object to building a third temple between Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa is an extreme one.

Most Democrats side with Obama vs Netanyahu.

[King_David]

33. You're too quick to label the pro Israel posters here in this group

Maybe you do it unintentionally and without thinking but they are much closer in view and probably identical to official Democratic Party policy than the anti Israel crowd posting here.

[6chars]

41. two sets of rules

supporters of israel go with logic and facts and are characterized using a variety of stereotypes. anti-Israel posters go with hyperbole, logic, false inferences, name calling and worse, and are not called on it. it's not an accident.

[grossproffit]

53. You're right. It's NOT an accident.

[King_David]

36. Really ? Can you please link up for us Obama's views on rebuilding the

the Jewish temple ?

[geek tragedy]

37. Only crazy religious fanatics think provoking a war

with the entire Muslim world in such a manner is a good idea.

Given that he is rational and not a member of an end-times doomsday cult, we can be confident he does not support such a move.

Amongst Jews in Israel, it's only the craziest of the most fanatical of the most extreme right wing who support such a move.

[King_David]

38. Extrapolations

You do that a lot here.

Your probably correct but I'm less "artsy" and prefer fact.

No way of telling unless the people actually say the things that you like to extrapolate.

As I say I prefer fact.

[geek tragedy]

39. Are you suggesting that there's a possibility that Obama favors triggering a region-wide/worldwide

war by indulging religious fanatics?

[King_David]

48. You created that scenario

I don't believe Obama has ever talked about it

EVER

I do know Obama is a Zionist and pro Israel supporter as are all Democratic Party reps and candidates such as Bernie and Hillary.

[geek tragedy]

49. the idea is so absurd and insane he hasn't had need to address it

It's not something sane people favor

[King_David]

50. I agree they need find some other interests

All religious beliefs are insane to me especially those willing to kill or take their own lives for such.

[shira]

9. These folks are harmless. Meanwhile, Hamas is using girls as combatants....

I fully expect you to state that this is as bad or worse than that.

[shira]

5. The Guardian (Aug 15, 2015) equates UK with N.Korea

The worst "whataboutery" ever...
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/15/say-what-you-will-about-kim-jong-un-north-korea

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

7. Oh, poor you shira...

Is it that hard to wrap you head around satire?

Does the Onion leave you feeling confused?

[shira]

8. Read it through. It's not satire.

Your sources really suck at analysis & opinion.

Onionism is mainstream analysis & opinion at the Guardian.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

11. LOL! You!'

You believed that?

[shira]

12. You still haven't read the entire article, have you?

I'm betting you only read the 1st few paragraphs.

Then again, if you really believe this is satire then that explains a LOT about your worldview.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

32. You're comically comical, shira to say the least.

And you haven't a clue when it comes to satire. That says it all.

[Mosby]

10. Similarities between Masjid al-Haram and the Jewish Temple

Al-Masjid al-Haram: The Sacred Mosque (Masjid al-Haram) is in the city of Mecca, Saudi Arabia. It is the largest mosque in the world and surrounds one of Islam’s holiest places, the Kaaba. Unlike other mosques which are segregated, men and women can worship at Al-Masjid Al-Haram together.

Beit ha-Mikdash: The Holy Temple (Beit ha-Mikdash) stood in the city of Jerusalem, Israel. Two successive Temples stood on the Temple Mount, the current site of the Dome of the Rock. It is the holiest place in the world for Jews. The complex was separated into areas where priests, leviim, women and non-Jews could all come to worship the Almighty.

Kaaba: The Kaaba is the most sacred point of the most sacred mosque in Islam. It is a square building which according to Islamic tradition, was first built by Abraham AS. Over time the Kaaba became a place of idolatry, until Muhammad SAW commanded that the idols be removed from this holy site.

Kodesh Ha-Kodashim: The Holy of Holies (Kodesh HaKodashim) was the most sacred part of the most sacred place in Judaism. It was a sanctuary within the Temple that housed the Covenant of the Ark. Only the High Priest was permitted to enter this area.


http://www.judaism-islam.com/similarities-between-masjid-al-haram-and-the-jewish-temple/

Islam came from Judaism so the similarities are not surprising. After all the first Arab was the son of the first Jew (Ishmael) who's relatives a couple thousand years later started Islam. So Islam would not exist today if not for Judaism.

[oberliner]

15. The Temple Mount is "a Mosque complex" ?

Are you serious?

[shira]

16. The Guardian is not for serious people. n/t

[oberliner]

17. It wasn't the Guardian that called it that

It was the person who posted the article.

[shira]

20. Oops, you're right. But the Jews need to get over it, remember?

Also, they shouldn't even be allowed up there.

Nice "progressive" position. Progressing towards what, I don't know...

[oberliner]

24. For a person to refer to the holiest site in Judaism as a "Mosque complex" is staggering

It is quite literally a negation of Judaism itself.

[King_David]

34. +1

[Adsos Letter]

26. The End of Days: Fundamentalism and the Struggle for the Temple Mount

The End of Days: Fundamentalism and the Struggle for the Temple Mount
by Gershom Gorenberg

http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Days-Fundamentalism-Struggle/dp/0195152050?tag=duckduckgo-d-20

It has been 13 years since Gorenberg published this, but I remember it as a very good read on the subject. It includes a chapter on the American ranchers trying to breed a red heifer of the required ceremonial purity.

[pansypoo53219]

29. WEEEEeeeeeeee. jump on the suicide parties bus!

[Little Tich]

35. Why can't they just try to clone extra-terrestials like normal crazy people?

Trying to replace a shrine that's very sacred to Muslims with the third (or is it the fourth?) Holy Jewish Temple is potentially very dangerous.

BTW, these are the same guys that made a full-size replica of the Temple Menorah:


Source: https://www.templeinstitute.org/history-holy-temple-menorah-1.htm

[oberliner]

51. "a shrine that's very sacred to Muslims"

That's less crazy?

[Syzygy321]

54. How silly. Also, Palestinians have an alarmingly

high (and climbing) incidence of wife beating, as well as coercive control and honor murders of women - all based on islam's ideals of women as sexual property, subordinate to males.

Do I win the thread? I think I do.

(oh wait - is this the I/P forum? From the OP I got the wrong idea - thought this was the "random stuff about one side" forum..)

[grossproffit]

55. Yes, you win. You get it. "random stuff about one side" sums up what this forum has become.