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Tue Mar 13, 2012, 07:21 PM

Alan Greenspan misunderstands the nature of capitalism and human nature.

Forgive me if I have posted this before.

Alan Greenspan says:
In 1963:
“Capitalism is based on self-interest and self-esteem; it holds integrity and trustworthiness as cardinal virtues and makes them pay off in the marketplace, thus demanding that men survive by means of virtue, not vices. It is this superlatively moral system that the welfare statists propose to improve upon by means of preventative law, snooping bureaucrats, and the chronic goad of fear.” (The Assault on Integrity, 1963)
In 2008:
“Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve, finally took some responsibility (sort of) for the crisis. He told Congress: "Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholder's equity – myself especially – are in a state of shocked disbelief…”
Translated, that means he did not think bank bosses were stupid* enough to drive their companies into bankruptcy but he was wrong.”
From:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/quotes-of-2008-we-are-in-a-state-of-shocked-disbelief-1220057.html

Notes:
*I am not sure “stupid” is the right word here, as the Banksters made millions.
The bolding is mine.
I think Alan lives in an Ayn Rand fantasy world.

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Reply Alan Greenspan misunderstands the nature of capitalism and human nature. (Original post)
rhett o rick Mar 2012 OP
NAO Mar 2012 #1
Turbineguy Mar 2012 #2
rhett o rick Mar 2012 #3
Boojatta Mar 2012 #4
rhett o rick Mar 2012 #5
Po_d Mainiac Mar 2012 #6
rhett o rick Mar 2012 #7
Po_d Mainiac Mar 2012 #8
rhett o rick Mar 2012 #9

Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Tue Mar 13, 2012, 07:33 PM

1. Alan Greenspan came under the influence of Ayn Rand

and Rand had (and still has) a powerful mind-warping effect on anyone who came under the influence of her ideas.

***

Articles about Ayn Rand and her insidious, lingering influence on the American Right:

How Ayn Rand Seduced Generations of Young Men and Helped Make the U.S. Into a Selfish, Greedy Nation
http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/153454/how_ayn_rand_seduced_generations_of_young_men_and_helped_make_the_u.s._into_a_selfish,_greedy_nation

The Truth About GOP Hero Ayn Rand
http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/150680/the_truth_about_gop_hero_ayn_rand/

Resurrecting Ayn Rand: How Corporate Money Pushes Economic Poison on Campus
http://www.alternet.org/economy/154327/resurrecting_ayn_rand%3A_how_corporate_money_pushes_economic_poison_on_campus

Ayn Rand, Hugely Popular Author and Inspiration to Right-Wing Leaders, Was a Big Admirer of Serial Killer
http://www.alternet.org/books/145819/ayn_rand,_hugely_popular_author_and_inspiration_to_right-wing_leaders,_was_a_big_admirer_of_serial_killer/

Ayn Rand Railed Against Government Benefits, But Grabbed Social Security and Medicare When She Needed Them
http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/149721/ayn_rand_railed_against_government_benefits,_but_grabbed_social_security_and_medicare_when_she_needed_them/

10 Shameless Right-Wing Tributes to Ayn Rand That Should Make Any Sane Person Blush
http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/147872/10_shameless_right-wing_tributes_to_ayn_rand_that_should_make_any_sane_person_blush

The Alarming Revival of Ayn Rand: The Right's Weirdest Idol of Them All
http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/151674/the_alarming_revival_of_ayn_rand%3A_the_right's_weirdest_idol_of_them_all/

Why We Got Ayn Rand Instead of FDR: Thomas Frank on How Tea Party 'Populism' Derailed a New New Deal
http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/153973/why_we_got_ayn_rand_instead_of_fdr%3A_thomas_frank_on_how_tea_party_'populism'_derailed_a_new_new_deal


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Response to NAO (Reply #1)

Tue Mar 13, 2012, 08:07 PM

2. The Ayn Rand heroes

such as Dagney Taggart, Hank Reardon, John Galt and Howard Rourke (and a few others) were actually honest in that they did what they said they would do. But in the real world it doesn't work that way. These people wouldn't last out their first day in Goldman-Sachs. That's why modeling an economic policy on fiction doesn't work.

The Ayn Rand thesis of taking everything that is communism and turning it upside down doesn't work for the same reason as communism. Human nature.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 14, 2012, 04:58 PM

3. Ayn Rand and Greenspan believed that rugged capitalist are honest.

But when the bottom line is more profit, honesty has no place.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 06:26 PM

4. I see what could be equivocation.

 

Capitalism is based on self-interest and self-esteem; it holds integrity and trustworthiness as cardinal virtues and makes them pay off in the marketplace, thus demanding that men survive by means of virtue, not vices. It is this superlatively moral system that the welfare statists propose to improve upon by means of preventative law, snooping bureaucrats, and the chronic goad of fear.

The words "this superlatively moral system" seem to refer back to "Capitalism", but the first sentence includes the words "it holds integrity and trustworthiness as cardinal virtues", so we seem to be talking about a philosophy rather than talking about an organizational scheme for society. However, are "welfare statists" proposing to improve a philosophy or to improve an organizational scheme for society? The words "preventative law, snooping bureaucrats, and the chronic goad of fear" sound like things associated with an organizational scheme for society.

Notice that there is a reference to "welfare statists", but we have no criteria for determining who is a welfare statist. The only philosophy mentioned in that excerpt is Capitalism, and the excerpt suggests that Capitalism is incompatible with any philosophy that any given welfare statist might adhere to. In particular, we're not dealing with mere proposals to improve upon an existing system. We need to take a stance on the political changes that were introduced during the Great Depression. If those changes were and are incompatible with Capitalism, then Greenspan is proposing changes. Those changes may or may not be improvements. It's as paradoxical as Ronald Reagan reducing the number of bank examiners and increasing the amount of money insured by the government per customer account while loudly proclaiming "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." To deregulate is to change the system, and it's merely a rhetorical tactic to claim that America is the land of unregulated Capitalism and to accuse anyone who wants to maintain some prudent regulations of being guilty of proposing hazardous, unwarranted change.

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Response to Boojatta (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 19, 2012, 12:35 AM

5. I agree that capitalism is based on self-interest I don’t agree that it holds integrity and trustwor

trustworthiness as virtues.
Greenspan says that these virtues will pay off in the marketplace above vices. Mr. Greenjeans is living in a Randian fantasy. It is much easier to steal than work for your reward, just ask Ken Lay, Bernie Madoff, Mit Romney or Bank of America.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2012, 12:19 PM

6. "If you understood what I just said, I must have misspoke"

Quote from Greenscum's testimony before Congress circa Jan. 2066

http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/feb2006/pi2006022_0188_pi031.htm

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Response to Po_d Mainiac (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 19, 2012, 01:17 PM

7. Do you support Greenspan or no?

The article you linked seem to deify him. The article says IMO that Greenspan did an excellent job of regulating capitalism. I thought he and his ilk didnt believe in regulating capitalism. He called regulators "nosy bureaucrats".

Also I think a measure of economic success should be based on what happens after you leave. It may be he was just keeping the bubble from breaking until after he left. Who do we blame for the 2008 crash?

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 19, 2012, 02:55 PM

8. Just supporting the quote with the link

Who's Greenspan? Is it related to Greenscum?

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Response to Po_d Mainiac (Reply #8)

Mon Mar 19, 2012, 06:44 PM

9. The article you linked liked Alan Greenjeans. nm

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