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Thu Dec 13, 2012, 03:58 PM

Rice out...

...for SOS: http://www.nytimes.com/?smid=tw-bna&bna=2806

Luke Russert's comment: https://twitter.com/LukeRussert

67 replies, 3644 views

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Arrow 67 replies Author Time Post
Reply Rice out... (Original post)
YvonneCa Dec 2012 OP
beachmom Dec 2012 #1
YvonneCa Dec 2012 #2
wisteria Dec 2012 #16
Mass Dec 2012 #3
wisteria Dec 2012 #17
wisteria Dec 2012 #14
karynnj Dec 2012 #20
Mass Dec 2012 #52
Mass Dec 2012 #4
MBS Dec 2012 #5
beachmom Dec 2012 #6
wisteria Dec 2012 #18
politicasista Dec 2012 #7
beachmom Dec 2012 #8
politicasista Dec 2012 #9
beachmom Dec 2012 #10
politicasista Dec 2012 #11
wisteria Dec 2012 #19
politicasista Dec 2012 #21
Mass Dec 2012 #22
politicasista Dec 2012 #23
wisteria Dec 2012 #26
politicasista Dec 2012 #33
wisteria Dec 2012 #50
politicasista Dec 2012 #62
YvonneCa Dec 2012 #13
wisteria Dec 2012 #15
beachmom Dec 2012 #12
MBS Dec 2012 #46
MBS Dec 2012 #47
Blaukraut Dec 2012 #24
politicasista Dec 2012 #25
wisteria Dec 2012 #27
politicasista Dec 2012 #28
Blaukraut Dec 2012 #30
politicasista Dec 2012 #32
JI7 Dec 2012 #38
politicasista Dec 2012 #39
JI7 Dec 2012 #40
politicasista Dec 2012 #41
JI7 Dec 2012 #42
politicasista Dec 2012 #43
JI7 Dec 2012 #44
politicasista Dec 2012 #45
Blaukraut Dec 2012 #29
politicasista Dec 2012 #31
Blaukraut Dec 2012 #34
politicasista Dec 2012 #35
Blaukraut Dec 2012 #36
politicasista Dec 2012 #37
wisteria Dec 2012 #51
politicasista Dec 2012 #64
karynnj Dec 2012 #58
politicasista Dec 2012 #63
MBS Dec 2012 #48
Inuca Dec 2012 #49
Mass Dec 2012 #53
YvonneCa Dec 2012 #54
Mass Dec 2012 #59
YvonneCa Dec 2012 #60
beachmom Dec 2012 #55
wisteria Dec 2012 #57
wisteria Dec 2012 #56
politicasista Dec 2012 #65
politicasista Dec 2012 #61
JI7 Dec 2012 #66
politicasista Dec 2012 #67

Response to YvonneCa (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:00 PM

1. I think that if the POTUS really wanted this fight, he would have nominated her sooner

instead of having weeks go by with negative press about her.

Anyway, does this mean John Kerry will be nominated or someone else?

This is not great news the way it swung out.

Edit to add: VERY negative response in my Twitter feed. Two themes:

1. It's bad to cave to Republicans like this. It only encourages further bullying in the future.
2. Scott Brown

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Response to beachmom (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:12 PM

2. I agree, beachmom. I don't think...

...President Obama wanted the fight at all.

As to who will be nominated...I still don't think we know. Media types have been opining for months about these things, stirring up storms of conflict where they may not really exist. Luke Russert seems to think it means Kerry gets the nomination (and he's not alone in doing that)...but who says he's not just stirring things up again?

I do think there will be an announcement soon...probably tomorrow or early next week. And I hope that if Senator Kerry wants the SOS or DOD job, that he gets the job he wants. I think he would be excellent for either position.



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Response to YvonneCa (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:51 PM

16. I hope so too. n/t

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Response to beachmom (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:22 PM

3. I agree.

I am also not sure that Obama will choose Kerry. I think that Menendez may be more of a problem than Brown, in their eyes, if Boxer is not interested by the chairmanship (or is it chair woman ship?)

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Response to Mass (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:55 PM

17. "If" Kerry were to leave the SFRC, and Menendez does become chairman,

I think the committee will not be as active or powerful. But, Menendez isn't that bad. I also wonder about John McCain's placement on the committee-if it goes through now. He would certainly be a strong voice, in a checks and balances way.

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Response to beachmom (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:47 PM

14. Both of those responses are short sighted and wrong.

First, Ms. Rice withdrew her name, giving President Obama a way out of this prediciment. He didn't want the fight and if he would have just come out and not chosen her, it then would have looked like he caved to Republicans.

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Response to beachmom (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:30 PM

20. I agree - Obama played this very badly

I wonder if Rice, and allies mainly in the WP, tried to make her selection a fait accompli and this dovetailed with the Republican anger of her words on Benghazi, which they likely think were designed to kick a real scandal or at least something that diminishes the D argument that Obama has made the ME safer. (In fact, one source questioned why Clinton, Pannetta and Petraeus were all silent and she was sent out even though she was less tied to the actions.)

It does make me respect more how Kerry had no leaks on the VP selection and even after the election, until he opted out in 2007 NONE of his people spoke out against Edwards.

The other thing is that Rice being out, does not make it necessarily Kerry. More significantly than Brown, who would have to commit to 2 elections in 2 years - the second when the SAME argument that he could swing the Senate could and would be used, is that Menendez would chair SFRC and the Senate could use Kerry's voice as the most liberal senior liberal member of Finance, the top environmentalist, and the strong voice for the infrastructure bank which may be the key to a new stimulus and the important infrastructure rebuild.

I suspect it is that Kerry really has an embarrassment of riches as far as his many accomplishments, abilities and skills are concerned. It is also true that Obama knows from the last 4 years that he can use - on an occasional basis - Kerry's solid diplomatic skills. I assume that Obama has to know that Kerry has better skills in dealing with Congress than any other person they are speculating about and his diplomatic skills were called the best that >he had seen? by Ambassador Eikenberry (Afghanistan) - high praise for a non career diplomat from a career diplomat. The only other negative I have read is that Kerry has an independent streak. To that I say, look at his work as a surrogate in the election. Unlike other (Biden 2004), he was excellent in remembering why he was out there - to state OBAMA's policies, not his.

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Response to beachmom (Reply #1)


Response to YvonneCa (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 05:47 PM

4. Kerry's statement

Classy, as usual, but I will not post it on GD. Seems some people are in an absolute crazy mode.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/kerry-laments-rices-withdrawal-for-state

Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) released a statement on Thursday saying he "felt" for U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice in her struggle with Congressional Republicans in the aftermath of the attacks in Benghazi, Libya.

“I've known and worked closely with Susan Rice not just at the UN, but in my own campaign for President. I've defended her publicly and wouldn't hesitate to do so again because I know her character and I know her commitment. She's an extraordinarily capable and dedicated public servant. Today’s announcement doesn't change any of that. We should all be grateful that she will continue to serve and contribute at the highest level. As someone who has weathered my share of political attacks and understands on a personal level just how difficult politics can be, I've felt for her throughout these last difficult weeks, but I also know that she will continue to serve with great passion and distinction.”

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Response to Mass (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:03 PM

5. perfect. n/t

and. as you said, classy as usual.

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Response to Mass (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:14 PM

6. Yeah, it's crazy out there. I was told to "shut up" for daring to criticize the POTUS

I think the way he did this was not good.

First, he goes out of his way to give a full throated defense of Rice, hinting he might nominate her for SoS.
Then, a media storm ensues even bigger than before with attack after attack on Rice.
Third, the White House is nearly Radio Silence on what they're going to do.
Now, she withdraws.

I mean, if you want a fight you have to fight from the beginning, and do so consistently every day. They didn't do that, and that wasn't fair to Rice. I do hear she might end up as National Security Adviser, which might be a good fit for her.

Here is a NBC report on Kerry:

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/13/15889703-with-rice-out-attention-shifts-to-john-kerry-for-state-post?chromedomain=nbcpolitics&lite

Now that Rice has withdrawn her nomination to the post, as NBC News reported exclusively on Thursday, all eyes turn to the onetime Democratic nominee. An official close to the process told NBC's Andrea Mitchell late Thursday that Kerry is now almost certain to get the job. "There were two people on the list," the person said. "Two minus one is one."


Uh-huh. I'll believe it when I see it.

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Response to beachmom (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:08 PM

18. I second your uh-huh.

Only because our President has overlooked him before for this post.

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Response to Mass (Reply #4)


Response to politicasista (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:53 PM

8. That is all the fault of the White House, not Kerry.

If the pundits you mention want to blame someone they need to put that at the doorstep of the President who failed to step in and nominate Rice. He didn't do that, and she was left on her own for WEEKS.

Also this forum supports Kerry. Quoting you:

Sorry Senator, but this has not played out very well -- a talented woman was bullied out of a job by GOP thugs like McCain (which some Obama supporters are mad at you and are now linking you to him and Graham).

People like Donna Brazille, Roland Martin, and others are furious over the GOP/good ole boy witch hunt of Rice and if Kerry is nominated, he won't be seen as a respected person, FP diplomat, but the enemy of some Dems, liberals, etc that denied a Rhodes Scholar, and AA woman her chance on a national stage.


What I put in bold is an absolute smear of the Senator, and has no place in this forum. If you are on forums where people are saying this, you need to fight back HARD.

The only real criticism I have seen from the Left is that JK leaving his seat might lead to Brown getting the seat. Beyond that is an assault on the good character of the Senior Senator from Massachusetts. I am sorry you are disappointed with how this went down against Rice, but that has nothing to do with Kerry. He was supportive throughout.

Edit to add: I see you removed the smear line while I was posting. I don't understand why you wrote it in the first place. Kerry would never, ever, ever join a GOP witch hunt against a fellow Democrat. You have to know this.

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Response to beachmom (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:54 PM

9. Because

Last edited Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:48 PM - Edit history (1)

you have those who don't trust politicians who's names aren't Obama or Biden.

Went back and deleted the rest. Not meaningful here.

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Response to politicasista (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:56 PM

10. OK. I just hope you can fight back on the forums where you see this.

This is like epic nasty primary fight kind of stuff being said.

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Response to beachmom (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:02 PM

11. Self-deleted the comment

Too divisive and misread the tweet. He wasn't linked with M & G.

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Response to beachmom (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:10 PM

19. I don't know if you are aware, but many Democrats were not happy with Rice.

In the end, it wasn't just Republicans but Democrats too, who were pushing for someone other than her.

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Response to wisteria (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:48 PM

21. There are Dems who are outraged

thinking that Rice was treated unfairly and hung out to dry.

Unfortunately, David Wade had to defend Senator Kerry on Twitter from one of them, setting the record straight in noting that he did/has defend(ed) her now and in the past.

BTW, Thanks for the message.

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Response to politicasista (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:04 AM

22. I am outraged, but this has nothing to do with Kerry. Obama let her to dry.

But the left was not happy with Rice, too hawkish.

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Response to Mass (Reply #22)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:16 AM

23. To be fair

Last edited Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:01 AM - Edit history (1)

There is semi-anger at SOS HRC, Congressional Black Caucus, and others just to name a few. IDT Kerry should be blamed either. It looks like he has laid low and quietly defended her. Andrea Mitchell said on Rachel that women are not happy with the WH "the boss" over Rice. It's all about emotion more than policy.

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Response to politicasista (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:33 AM

26. I understand that.

She is a remarkable woman, just not as qualified as Senator Kerry. I also would not be surprised if she is given another post that does not require confirmation.

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Response to wisteria (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:58 AM

33. Even if that is the case,

it won't be enough.

No one disputes that Senator Kerry isn't qualified. They just don't like the game being played the Good Ole Boys of the Senate of keeping a smart, qualified AA woman down, and view the Senator's silence as playing along, since he is next in line for the position. Go figure.

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Response to politicasista (Reply #33)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:19 PM

50. All I can say is, she wasn't the most qualified for this post.

And, if she is appointed to the other post, NSA, she will oversee the new SOS.

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Response to wisteria (Reply #50)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:40 PM

62. True n/t

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Response to Mass (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:35 PM

13. Great statement from...

...Senator Kerry. Thanks for posting it, Mass.

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Response to Mass (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:49 PM

15. Nice comments. And, he does know what it is like to be attacked-even when it wasn't justified. n/t

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Response to YvonneCa (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:07 PM

12. This tweet from Laura Rozen says it all:

https://twitter.com/lrozen/status/279383306984898561

RT @lrozen: She could tell the WH was not defending her hard, so she was a good soldier & stepped back bit.ly/ZmWKQx


In the National Journal it also mentions how human rights groups were not happy with her record in Africa, which also did not help her case. It wasn't just McCain/Graham.

Again, to be clear what Rice did when she appeared on Sunday programs to give talking points from the CIA on Benghazi was a big nothing. A ridiculous smear. But the other issues might have been more important (environment, African policy).

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Response to beachmom (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:15 AM

46. I strongly agree with you. n/t

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Response to MBS (Reply #46)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:17 AM

47. WaPo columnist Ruth Marcus also agrees

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2012/12/13/an-unfortunate-end-to-susan-rices-non-nomination/

Which leads me to the real unfairness to Rice: How could the administration have left her twisting for nearly a month while it calibrated the likelihood — and likely costs — of pressing the nomination?
Perhaps Rice herself added to those costs: first, the unusual decision, seemingly hers, to make the rounds of Senate courtesy calls as a non-nominee; second, the amazing outcome of having such courtesy calls put her in a seemingly worse position than where she started. But, really, Mr. President, either nominate her or pick someone else — like two weeks ago.
Thursday’s humiliating developments, in which Rice was forced to announce her own withdrawal from the position for which she hadn’t been chosen, fooled no one who has been around Washington for more than a minute and a half. Nominees — or in this case, not-yet-nominees — do not jump unless someone (not the president, but someone acting on his behalf) has given a quiet, whispered shove.
It never should have been allowed to come to this.

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Response to YvonneCa (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:19 AM

24. Some people on DU are incorrigible Kerry haters

I had to laugh when I read one person advocating E. Warren for SoS after railing against freeing up Kerry's senate seat for a Brown run in a special election. The Kerry hate knows no bounds. I was opposed to him becoming SoS because I don't want to lose his voice in the Senate, but the haters are making me change my mind. I hope he gets nominated.

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Response to Blaukraut (Reply #24)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:29 AM

25. It would add insult to injury

Maybe he should have defended Rice more.

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Response to politicasista (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:36 AM

27. Perhaps, this needs to be put into perspective.

There are certainly people who are outraged, some at the President and some that might even think Kerry had something to do with this, but in reality, how many really feel and think this way? I personally thing the percentage is very small. And, I am betting she get some other very important position.

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Response to wisteria (Reply #27)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:42 AM

28. Rice supporters aren't mad at the POTUS

They are mad at those that didn't publicly defend Rice against McCain and his GOP thug machine. It's a big fight now over this. If Kerry were to be nominated, there were comments about it being a "cloud" over him because of the suspicion that he supported what McCain (cause it is noted they go way back) did to Rice. Plus, they know that he has wanted the job for a while now.

IDK how many feel or think that way in reality, but hopefully Obama is aware that this ending isn't going to be a pretty one, and that Kerry (if he is the one) is going to get lots of backlash from Rice supporters over this.

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Response to politicasista (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:48 AM

30. So in other words, according to you anyway, Kerry can't win, no matter what

Look, the only people I see angry at Kerry are those who hate him anyway. And those would be former Deaniacs and former PUMAs. I recognize the names. They'll find a way to blame global warming on him if a room he's in gets too warm.

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Response to Blaukraut (Reply #30)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:52 AM

32. No,

but people will always view him with skepticism. The people that are angry over this are Obama's ardent supporters and supporters of Rice and the Administration. It is real and will show you a link to prove it (no, it's not from another forum).

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Response to politicasista (Reply #32)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:55 AM

38. Obama has many "ardent" supporters , you seem to only take the negatives

and view those as the only ones that matter.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #38)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:01 AM

39. Then Obama needs to know that

they are unfairly disrespecting Senator Kerry, while praising him (Obama that is).

Kerry hasn't bothered him, Biden, or Rice. He hasn't been anything but helpful to Obama and his election/re-election runs. Like one who was telling him to "chill out" when he was helping Obama with debate prep and defending him; all because he didn't "beat" Bush.

That is the kind of stuff Obama needs to know about.

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Response to politicasista (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:13 AM

40. no he doesn't, it's not that important

there are people out there who hate Obama, there are hillary supporters who still don't like Obama, there are Obama supporters who still don't like hillary. there are a lot of people who like/don't like others.

Obama knows this.

and axelrod didn't tell kerry to chill out because he didn't beat Bush it was because he had a different debate strategy.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #40)


Response to politicasista (Reply #41)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:25 AM

42. but who cares ?

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Response to JI7 (Reply #42)


Response to politicasista (Reply #43)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:33 AM

44. Obama needs to know what every single person says and thinks ?

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Response to JI7 (Reply #44)


Response to politicasista (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:45 AM

29. It wasn't up to Kerry to defend Susan Rice. That was Obama's job

Bottom line is they were both under consideration, and Obama couldn't decide who he wanted. This is according to all reliable news I've seen all night. John Kerry defended Susan Rice just fine. The President should have named the person he wished to nominate a lot earlier instead of letting Rice dangle in the wind like that.

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Response to Blaukraut (Reply #29)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:50 AM

31. That is where the argument is

Should he or should he not have defended her more. And Obama is getting dissed for "caving" too. And his relationship with McCain adds more scrutiny, considering he wanted a spot on the SFRC.

Hat tip to DonViejo. http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/mccain-joining-senate-foreign-relations-committee

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Response to politicasista (Reply #31)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:01 AM

34. Kerry did exactly what he should have done. He and Rice were both under consideration

And please don't forget that under consideration doesn't mean nominated. Kerry stayed quiet except when he put out a statement in defense of Rice. That was the perfect way to handle the situation. As to McCain getting a spot on SFRC, the Republicans rotate more because of their self-imposed term limits in committees, and like it or not, he is a natural fit for SFRC (in their view).

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Response to Blaukraut (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:14 AM

35. The problem is that

The problem in today's media world is that if you stay silent, you either don't care or you are up to something. It's not fair, but how it how it is.

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Response to politicasista (Reply #35)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:27 AM

36. Got it, replied

Kerry wasn't silent. He made a statement a few weeks back, unequivocally defending Rice, and that should have been enough. What was he supposed to do? Go on all Sunday and other shows singing her praises. They WERE up for the same job.

As to ridicule: You know that JK can take it. This wouldn't be the first time they went after him. He's a big boy and can handle himself

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Response to Blaukraut (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:33 AM

37. "Ridicule" was a strong word

but you are right, he can take it. .

Will concede that going on the Sunday shows would have been a disaster because they were up for the same job, but what else was he supposed to do, guess put McGrahayotte on blast.

If anything else came across as a swipe or offensive towards Senator Kerry, apologies. That wasn't my intent. :peace:

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Response to politicasista (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:31 PM

51. If the situation were reversed, would she have defended him?

Senator Kerry was up for this post too, it is very important to not bring undue attention to oneself. And, it wasn't up to Kerry to continually defend her. To me, to expect him to have done this is going beyond reasonable. This all assumes she was the one going to be picked, and we can never be sure of who the President would have asked in the end.

I also want to ask you what would have happened if the President would have picked Kerry over Rice? I think some people would not be satisfied with anything but a Rice nomination.

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Response to wisteria (Reply #51)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:39 AM

64. If he had

he face backlash and suspicion from Rice/Obama's supporters. (Hence the McCain Freudian slip and the laughs).

IDK, after everything that has happened today, it doesn't seem that important. It's already and complicated, ugly situation that me don't know where to start.

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Response to politicasista (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:25 PM

58. Exactly what more would you have him say

His words re the Benghazi attacks were strong and unambiguous. Stronger than MANY Democrats used when Kerry was unfairly attacked when he was the nominee. In addition, he went further than he had to in describing her strengths - even knowing she was up for the same job as he is.

The fact is realistically this is Kerry's last chance to be SOS - one of two positions (other than Senator) that he has wanted all his career. Rice could get many future chances. I don't get why you and others seem to think that he should have acted as her PR department.

Not to mention, consider the accusations:

Consider these possible things:
1) Maybe Kerry is not impressed with how she gets along with people and her diplomatic skills. If so, staying silent and not piling on is the best he could have done.

2) Maybe Kerry does not see eye to eye on how to deal with international issues. If you look at some of the articles, it seems that they are far apart on how to approach their international peers.

3) You assume a RIGHT for Rice to get that position and are asking that Kerry put aside his own aspirations and actually push Rice. I am not saying that Rice is a poor candidate, just that no one is unconditionally entitled to get the position.

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Response to karynnj (Reply #58)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:34 AM

63. IDK. Just tired of the bashing n/t

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Response to YvonneCa (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:49 AM

48. withering comments by Charlie Pierce on the Repubs

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/susan-rice-not-running-for-secretary-of-state-nomination-121312
title is "The Defenestration of Susan Rice"
takes apart the Republicans. . and also Obama.(He also tells JK not to take the job)

Congratulations to John McCain and Lindsey Graham. . . .They ginned up a fake controversy, got enough people to buy it, and then got the president to decide that they would be the ones to decide who the next Secretary Of State is. Good job, all of you, including you, Mr. President. Seriously. . .

Who in the White House gives a rat's ass whether Bob Corker — who race-baited Harold Ford out of a winnable Senate seat and now has another high-profile African American as a trophy — thinks a nominee is excessively loyal to the guy who, you know, nominated her? And I am nowhere near as contemptuous of Senator Grumpy and Huckleberry Closetcase as I am of a fool like Kelly Ayotte and an abject coward like Susan Collins, who couldn't find Nairobi if you dropped it on the highway north of Bangor, deciding that she needed to be a geopolitician so some woodchuck wingnut in a flannel shirt won't primary her next time. They're all disgraces.

There are days in which this country seems to be little more than a pre-school. This is one of them

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Response to MBS (Reply #48)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:07 AM

49. Wow!

Withering is an understatement.

As to my own thoughts about this whole mess... I really don't know what to make of it, an dthe whole thing makes me extremely uncomfortable. Still, I would love to see Kerry at State; I would have much preferred that it happen under different circumsatnces (obviously...). Nevertheless, if he will indeed be nominated as it seems likely, it is likely that the circumstances and this whoie mess will soon become irrelevant.

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Response to YvonneCa (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:03 PM

53. Sorry, but today, this seems so childish.


I am shocked that, after what happened today, we continue these squabbles. Frankly, if Senator Kerry was going to lead a movement to get rid of these absurd laws, I would gladly keep him in the Senate. I have not been able to see a TV news show or to read DU without crying today. Whoever will be SoS is not important in this regard, at least for the children of our country.

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Response to Mass (Reply #53)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:25 PM

54. I've been crying all day...

...too. My grandchildren are 3, 5, 7 and 9 years old. I am so glad they are home with their parents tonight. I have many teacher friends that I worked with for over 20 years at an elementary school. I keep thinking of how Friday mornings go in a school right before Christmas vacation.

What happened today breaks my heart and hurts my soul.

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Response to YvonneCa (Reply #54)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:28 PM

59. My mother was teacher in an elementary school for 35 years, She was teaching to kids between 6 and 9

It was in France, in a rural school, and, even though there were many guns for hunting, such a tragedy would not have been thinkable (gun culture is far from being as prevalent as in this country).

What is frightening in this story, and in many of the stories before that, is that the killers were not criminals or terrorists, but people who were undetected as mentally ill, had access to guns legally, and that still the gun lobby (including here) continues to say that nothing should change.

At the same time, gun culture and violence continues to be prevalent on TV and in the movies. I went with my son to the movies and while the movie itself was a romantic comedy, all previews but two involved shooting and violence by the good guys. I know I have a cultural gap on these issues (though I grew up in an area where guns existed, but not the notion that you had to have a gun). I wonder if this has changed, though I have not heard anything that senselessly tragic and meaningless.

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Response to Mass (Reply #59)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:00 PM

60. I remember you mentioning that your...

...mother was a teacher.

I think you are right that the problem we have is that gun culture...including things like movies and gaming... desensitizes people about the reality of violence.

As a teacher, I was an advocate for teaching conflict resolution to children...starting at a very young age. But learning conflict resolution skills is only part of what needs to be done, and it's not enough to stem the tide of that culture of violence (including gun culture in some places) that kids are exposed to.

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Response to Mass (Reply #53)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:25 PM

55. Actually, today I read Assad is doing something similar to children

every day in Syria. My point is that foreign policy matters, too. True, the insider DC stuff is truly fluff and seems absurd in light of today's events, but who the first diplomat will be is important.

Agreed, if Kerry were the one who could get gun control through the Senate, then yes, he should stay. But my view is that the situation is hopeless. I logged onto Facebook and saw conservatives just trotted out the same crap they usually do. (when I say conservatives I mean my acquaintenances on Facebook, not pundit hacks on Fox News). No minds changed by today's events. If that won't do it, I don't know what will.

Some reaction from the Middle East:

I feel u USA. Those psychopaths who deliberately shoot kids r hard 2 understand. We have 1 in Syria, and he has a full army + info control.
Retweeted by Blake Hounshell


This cartoon was used for Syria. We can use it for #Connecticut's #SchoolShooting: … ("Child Victims in War")


https://twitter.com/blakehounshell

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Response to beachmom (Reply #55)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:56 PM

57. I was thinking just something like this today,

we are outraged about the murder of innocents, yet we have a dictator in Syria who reguarly murders innocents, and we say and do nothing to help them and stop the killing.

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Response to Mass (Reply #53)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:52 PM

56. You should be able to send your children to school and know they are safe.

Babies, these were babies, innocents looking forward to the holidays. It is just so hard to comprehend the whys of tragedies like this. And, it is maddening to know that people with mental illness, and emotional problems can get there hands on weapons of destruction.

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Response to wisteria (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:42 AM

65. +1

The sad thing about all this is that it happened so close to the holidays. A time to be with the ones we love and cherish.

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Response to Mass (Reply #53)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:39 PM

61. +1

me feels stupid now.

It's all about the children and the teachers. From an future educator who's grandmother and cousin both taught elementary school for 30 years. Extremely tragic

Apologies for the posts. Take care and be blessed.

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Response to Mass (Reply #53)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:48 AM

66. John Kerry and Scott Brown at Odds over Gun Control Legislation (from 2011)

<Brown has already come out against gun-control legislation in response to the Arizona murders, telling the Boston Globe on Jan. 14: “I’m not in favor of doing any additional federal regulations relating to any type of weapons or federal gun changes. I feel it should be left up to the states.” >

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/01/sen_john_kerry_co-sponsors_gun.html

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Response to YvonneCa (Original post)

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