Well, I'm here just to be somewhere safe

[Gloria]

I wandered into a thread on Howard Dean that happened to be in the Bernie group and was slammed and blocked in a very NASTY way.
I have written to the group's monitor about the lack of respect.

Frankly, I've just about had it. While many Sanders supporters are nice people, there is a rabid element that is scary.
I've been around long enough to find this sort of thing very unsettling.

Back in 2008, I was not gung ho on Obama. I tend not to get on bandwagons. What I thought was my closest friend, someone very active in politics went full-Obama. When I didn't jump on board, I was literally cut off at the knees.

At the time I was contributing to Buzzflash, which was based in Chicago, so you could expect them to favor Obama. But the site got increasingly pro-Obama AND viciously anti-Clinton. The tone was not unlike what I'm finding here at DU. It finally got so repulsive that I resigned...I wasn't getting paid, but it just got to be too much. I did not want my name associated with that sort of thing.

I've been a member of DU since the start, during Bush II. In the good old days, I don't think things were that divisive. But all the splintering into "groups" seems unnatural to me. I don't look for groups. If I see a topic I find interesting, I just read and post if I feel I want to. So, wandering into a thread on Howard Dean and mistaking it for a general thread isn't that odd. To be banned and called a "sweetie" before summarily being told "Buh-bye" is utterly rude. I simply responded to a derogatory bit about Dean and Clinton by saying that "Clinton has given plenty of policy details..."

Frankly, I'm pretty disgusted. I am thinking of calling the Sanders campaign and telling them about what some of their fans are doing. I feel like asking Maddow about what she thinks of this sort of viciousness. I'm thinking of contacting the Clinton campaign, too...because the vicious nature of some of these people should be considered. I don't trust some of these "Bernie" supporters...are they really just Republicans in disguise???

[shenmue]

1. I think so

[juajen]

34. So do I!

[PatrickforO]

2. I'm sorry. When I post on here I try never to hang someone out to dry.

Yes, I support Bernie, but that's not because I don't like Clinton. I just feel that Bernie is the candidate who best represents me.

There are some butt heads on here - both sides I think, but I think the real anger is not directed at Clinton's supporters. It is directed at how downright nasty, destructive and morally impoverished our society has become.

As a 57 year old man, I can tell you that there used to be politicians in my lifetime who were statesmen and stateswomen. They didn't care so much about being reelected as they did about the needs of the American people. And they tended to be reelected.

I guess that's what I want to tell you, in hopes you'll feel better. People are just downright mad at what this nation has become. I mean, it weighs me down every day.

Best wishes to you!

[Gloria]

5. It seems the Sanders thing is the other side of the Trump coin

with regard to noise, size, etc.

Although all Dems are pretty close to each other on issues. The Bern people hate Clinton's past, etc.

On the other hand, someone who sounds exactly like they did 40 years ago may not have a handle on things, either.

[upaloopa]

8. I think a lot of them hate the Hillary

that they constructed in their heads.

[brer cat]

23. That is a very astute comment, upaloopa.

I have been so puzzled by the level of Hillary hatred here, and I think you just nailed it.

[Gloria]

25. YEs, the guy who blocked me seemed to have a grudge

against the Clintons....disgracing the Oval Office, some "rape case" that Hillary argued...stuff like that...seems to be off the GOP boards...
The hatred thing is what gets me....and again against Howard Dean....very disturbing.

They say the "far right and the far left meet" and it seems to be true....at least on the hate level...

[brer cat]

26. It is indeed

very hard to distinguish some DUers from the far right. I can respect a difference of opinion, but the Clinton hate is very strong with some and they spill it over to anyone who supports her or is even pictured with her.

I agreed with your comments on that thread, and a mature person would not have trashed you for saying it.

[Metric System]

31. Somebody on DU actually brought up the rape case? I've only seen that talked about in RW circles.

Hillary was a defense attorney doing her job. Sometimes you have to defend scum.

[Gloria]

36. YEs, and I was told that I wasn't paying attention if I missed THAT

Last edited Thu Sep 3, 2015, 11:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Well, it is from RW talk, I"m sure....and as an adult, I realize people get cases assigned to them and have to do it.
OF course, the fact that she has played a pivotal role in micro-lending to women to help lift them out of poverty in underdeveloped countries, that she faced down the CHinese on woman's rights obviously is ALL FAKE....(sarcasm)

[zipplewrath]

4. Take it for what it is

More people have been blocked from the HRC group than the "Bern". Either there are more people deserving, or the Hillary group is more sensitive.

[NanceGreggs]

6. Given that 80% to 85% of the posters here ...

... are Bernie supporters, it's a matter of simple math. Being as there are more BS supporters than HRC supporters, the group with more adherents is more likely to try and "infiltrate" the opposing camp's private group than the other.

One group being "more sensitive" than the other has nothing to do with it. It is a matter of sheer numbers.

Of course, this is DU. In the real world, BS supporters are still very much in the minority.

[William769]

7. Someone just tried to school me in a PM.

They were not happy with the action I took. Go figure.

[hrmjustin]

9. Oh the poor dear!

[BooScout]

22. Also...

Hasn't the HRC Group been here a lot longer than the BS Group? I would think that would affect things. Plus, I think we are a pretty polite bunch of people here in the HRC group.

[Thinkingabout]

30. Sounds like good math to me, Hillary group was in place before I joined in 2011, the Bernie group

started this year, so going year by year the Hillary group bans less often than the Bernie group does based on time. Other than the math, if posters violates the Hillary room, then there just may be a ban.

[Cha]

18. More Disruptors come into Hillary's Room and get BLOCKED. The Board is "85%" BS supporters so that's

why many more are Blocked in this Group.

Don't intrude with your spinning and rudeness and you won't be Blocked. Simple.

It's for Hillary Supporters.

[workinclasszero]

10. Its not safe in here either friend

I've been banned once after posting in defence of Hillary right here and I've got two hides going right now, one from this so-called "safe place" for Hillary.

One more and I'm banned again.

The bernie fans will stalk you on DU and you will be banned. They pack every jury and they don't give a damn about fairness or free speech either.

Good luck. See you on the outside I guess,

[hrmjustin]

11. As you can see they can't help but invade our space.

[ladym55]

12. Our national concept of debate has become name-calling

Why discuss something where you have to have ideas and support them with evidence and stuff when it so easy to name call and be a bully? Yes, the Donald, I'm talking to you. We don't need to imitate that.

I don't like seeing Dems forming a circular firing squad for the 2016 election. I also dislike Dems who buy into all the M$M bull puckey about Hillary Clinton. She is an incredibly smart and experienced leader. Bernie Sanders keeps raising issues we all need to discuss. From my perspective, we have good, thoughtful people on the Democratic side, so we need to act like that is the case. Personally, I think Hillary will make an awesome president, and I value Bernie Sanders' voice in the Senate.

Sadly, the rabid Bernie supporters I know are very progressive and say things like they will have to "hold their noses" to vote for Hillary. I find that very childish. So, they would rather have John Kasich as president and picking the next three SCOTUS justices. That will go well.

[postatomic]

13. I've been trying hard to just focus on Hillary and the eventual General Election

But stupid has a way of getting to me from time to time. I realize that I'm not going to convince any of the Ralph Nader 2.0 group to support Hillary so it's a waste of energy to even try.

I always look at what group a post is in and if it's in the Bernie Group I respect it and will not post there.

If anything, it's a very interesting study in social behavior.

Sorry you had a bad experience.

[MADem]

14. I think you've got it sorted.

Astroturf is the name of the game.

Volunteer to help out the campaign, and ignore the idiots--and stay out of dark alleys!!

[redstateblues]

15. I recently took a week off from DU

And when I returned the thing that stood out was the victim mentality of so many of the BS posts. They act as if they are under constant assault when in reality there are very few pro HRC posts and rarely any anti BS posts anymore. I wonder what it will be like on DU when HRC wins the nomination.

[LoveMyCali]

16. I think of this as a safe place

not because I don't think I could get an alert but because I don't have to suffer through the rah-rah cheerleader bullshit that has taken over this site.

When I first came to this site (member since 2005 but I lurked for a long time before that) I felt like I could actually learn something about politics. People linked to well-written, non-biased articles. Now it's like a school yard full of bullies.

[Gloria]

17. What really got me today was the GLEE over Howard Dean's FB page being "invaded"

by Sanders "supporters"/trolls.
That just got me disgusted...

I actually commented on that first in the same thread..."eating their own...." which upset the poor dears.

Really, was done a favor by being banned...since I will be spared making a mistake and posting in their cesspool...they are "true believers", it's like a sick cult.

[Cha]

19. Sorry, about your experience, Gloria. As a strong Pres Obama supporter and now a Hillary supporter

I have to tell you that I got along fine with my friends who supported Hillary in 2008 and one sister. And, then they all came together to support Obama when he won.

Just like the President and Hillary came together for the good of our country.. and now they're good friends.

Wonder what the Sanders Campaign would say about their online supporters who have been called out by many many people? Do they already know what they're doing or are they oblivious?

[Hekate]

20. Welcome. I can't fathom the need some have to declare everyone else an enemy...

Seriously, since when is Howard Dean an enemy? Why be so gleeful and childish about his Facebook page being swarmed? Why call Hillary a murderer, all caps?

I said "You folks have lost your way." End of comment. Now I'm on the enemies' list. It was silly -- the verdict was rendered and approved with the same gleeful Schadenfreude as the party over Dean's Facebook page. Just silly and inane.

Bernie Sanders and his supporters are not my enemies. Is anyone at all in this Group saying they are?

I don't understand why they feel they must destroy other Democrats. Do they seriously think they will win by doing that?

[Cha]

21. Who knows who these people really are? They're anonymous.. they could be anybody

bashing Howard Dean. Not really Dems at all.

[Gloria]

24. By contrast, I received a private email from someone who

had experienced some nastiness from HRC supporters...he said he "felt my pain." It was a perfectly adult communication, with no personal hostility. This person like Sanders, but isn't a hater....He also has made mistakes on where a post has gone....

This is my reply, which pretty much sums up my overall feelings:

"I'm totally open to anyone's ideas and don't like the way this all operates...I really don't frequent the "groups" on a regular basis because I just look at the general discussions.
I really don't like this "group" thing... it encourages the extremes coming from all sides.

I don't believe there is one perfect candidate. Right now, it seems the Sanders people view him on a pedestal, but he is a pol like any pol. He betrayed Ron Paul after they worked together to try to get a true audit of the FED. So, Sanders can talk like he has for 40 years, but in the real world, he is undercutting a look at the FED, which is a huge problem for us. All Central Banks are running the show.
http://popularliberty.com/7697/ron-paul-flashback-bernie-sanders-watered-down-audit-fed-bill
(I read Zero Hedge for seeing some of the economic arguments and picked up that link in a thread...that place is good for the articles, but their commentators range from the logical to the obscene, be warned).

I've immersed myself in studying the markets, world economies, etc. over the last 5 years and the rigged system is bigger than any pol.
It's that blind faith that bugs me the most. I think most people would be well served if they understood the underpinnings of the system better so that they could help themselves more.

I'm long past idolizing anybody. I am not a purist...I started out with Eugene McCarthy, but as you learn more and get older you have to understand the bigger picture. There are a lot of Clinton haters out there, possibly GOP trolls? I was ranted at about Clinton disgracing the Oval Office....meanwhile, the Office is disgraced by decisions that sent hundreds of thousands of innocents to death through lies about WMD. I hear rants about the evil Clinton Foundation...you know, the one that saved Africa from AIDS because Clinton got big Pharma to cut drug costs.

So, what do you do? You take care of yourself, help others, and just figure that we have to support a Dem at this point over the overtly evil GOP!~ I'm not a registered Dem, but I "caucus" with them, a la Sanders!

Categorizing makes things really hard to have a broad perspective. Maybe I'm too old for this game....but people really have to see the big picture....don't destroy the candidates we have because if we lose in 2016, there really is no hope, things will get far worse...

Cheers, G "

[Hekate]

27. Good post. I also started with Gene McCarthy, and am also past the point of idolizing any candidate.

Long past.

There are people in public life that I respect and like (and in the case of the Obama/Biden team and families, I would say: more than anyone in decades) -- but idolize and expect them to magically make things all better? No.

I pick and choose from Democratic candidates. Ever since Nixon, ever since Gingrich, I have seen who "the enemy" is, and in no case is it a Democrat.

I just want to say to some of these folks who want to destroy Democrats: Grow the hell up. But only time and experience can do that. Or not.

[Gloria]

28. Thanks. It's the only rational approach to the system we have....

The Fed transparency things was HB 1207. It would have opened up information so that we could see how our Fed was interacting with foreign Central Banks and Wall St.

So why did Sanders abandon his own effort? Who got to him? What did he get back?
As I said, Sanders can be "in the system" when he wants to be. This is what gets me fed up...that FACTS don't get in the way of Bernie fanatics, just like the rightwingers who gladly take Social Security...but are AGAINST IT!

All I want is them to understand that nobody is a perfect politician...NOBODY...Blind faith DOES NOT CUT IT in today's world...

[redstateblues]

29. Thanks Gloria. Best post I've seen in a long time.

[greatlaurel]

32. The more the merrier. welcome aboard.

We need to show a united front to the anti-Democratic Party attacks. There are a lot of these kind of attacks on the internet. It is an old GOP tactic just freshioned up for the internet. Reminds me of many years ago when the GOP would hire people to ride elevators in big office buildings and say things when the elevator was packed like the Democratic governor's wife was a lesbian( this was back in the bad old days, we really have made progress!). Now they accuse people of emails and murder. Only really nasty people would agree to do such things. Now they can sit at a computer and anonymously spread lies and inuendo. Nothing new and HRC can handle it. It drives the haters wild how she just keeps on and gets stuff done.

Glad to see you post here.

[Eko]

33. I got banned from them

for calling one of them out for saying "Clinton has a fondness for kids playing with cluster bombs". I did not disagree with them over their not liking Clintons record, I disagreed over the "fondness" rhetoric and they didnt back down one iota. One of the admins said it was satire even when the poster said they did not overstate it one bit. Good riddance.

[Cha]

35. Really, Eko... "Good Riddance"! has seldom been more appropriate. Thanks for standing up

against the ignorant hyperbole.

[ismnotwasm]

37. The propaganda against Hillary has been going on for decades

She and Sanders and not dissimilar in many areas--they have different approaches. I believe that Hillary has the more workable plans, the better negotiating skills, the pure political savvy, the foreign policy experience to make one incredible, one-of-kind president. I love the thought of her being back to back with President Obama. I love the symbolism of a woman president--And She is clearly the best choice.


(As far as actual thought out planning, the one who is really good and excels Hillary in areas such as criminal justice is O'Malley, not Sanders)

When people are exposed to that level of propaganda for that long, there is an element of knee-jerk dislike, in high tension times like political primaries--emotions ride the edge, and fall into actual hate.

There are valid reasons to dislike Hillary, I rarely see them here, and when/if I do--they are coached in those terms of unmerited hate and loathing and disinformation it only makes the conclusion of the opinion suspect because of excessive emotionalism.

Sanders, from all I can see, is basically an ok guy, however, unless he is naive to the point of being unfit for the presidency--he HAS to be aware of the--er--excessive enthusiasm of some of his supporters. He has set his own bar of no personal attacks, he follows it as best he can in a disturbing political climate, but there will come a time where he will have to attempt to refute the strong points of the Hillary campaign. In fact he has started already, how could he not, when the media consistently asks him to contrast and compare? We shall see how he upholds to his own standard.