United Kingdom
Related: About this forumWhy are Brexiters trying to shut down debate? Because they’re scared
Last edited Tue Oct 18, 2016, 10:45 PM - Edit history (1)
The negotiation results will shape our nation for decades. They could lead to the break-up of the union, disrupt sectors of the economy and alter Britains standing in the world. It is little surprise there are strong feelings on both sides of this debate over the best way forward given the hopes and fears. Yet suddenly there seems to be a sense of panic among those that pushed for this break as they close down discussion over the seismic consequences of the electorates decision.
This is, of course, depressing especially when the Brexit camp fought under the banner of democracy and sovereignty. Now they hurl insults at opponents who dare question their wisdom and howl down those who dare offer different perspectives on the way ahead. The ballot offered a binary choice without specifics. But ministers refuse to discuss Britain stance on departure deals, while politicians proposing that parliament should have a say are accused of subverting the will of the people.
I have sympathy for the prime minister, trapped by the electorates self-destructive verdict and swirling political realities. Clearly, divisions fuelled by the referendum are worsening, inflaming reluctance among leavers to accept challenge to their one-eyed view of the world after a shock victory. I saw this at the Tory party conference, where as someone opposing the idea of our nation turning inwards, I was constantly accused of being a sore loser. Typical was one leading leave voice who threatened to stop following me on social media since I refused to share his optimism.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/18/brexiters-debate-scared-plan-britains-future
I don't know about anyone's experiences IRL as the only folks I've spoken to at any length about Brexit since the referendum are friends who're of the same mind as me, but some of the rhetoric in the media (MSM and social) - and even our own (unelected) prime minister - isn't exactly recognizing that roughly half of the people who voted (let alone of the whole UK population) didn't want to enter this ridiculous adventure in the first place, and certainly don't want a bunch of rudderless chancers grappling us headlong over the Reichenbach Falls in hot pursuit of a rainbow-farting unicorn. And trying to bully us into submission is more likely to provoke a backlash than acquiescence.
Or am I being too pessimistic?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/18/british-tea-jam-and-biscuits-will-be-at-the-heart-of-britains-br/
Nope, I don't believe I am.
Denzil_DC
(7,287 posts)LeftishBrit
(41,212 posts)Things I have learned in the last few months:
(1) Never try to decide complex economic and constitutional issues by referendum
(2) If you do, at least make sure that you decide a threshold for it in advance, and that it is more than a narrow majority of voters and 50% of constituent states. Make it more like what's required for a constitutional amendment in other countries
(3) Whatever may have been the case 40 years ago, nowadays most countries that depend at all on trade are in some sort of trade bloc. Not doing so, is likely to put a country at a huge disadvantage.
(4) We have been horribly uninformed about the EU in this country. At best, even those of us, who manage mostly to avoid the tabloids and their screeching demonization of the EU, have been given very little information about its positive contribution.
(5) No, EU membership is not just a mildly useful if over-bureaucratic bulwark against excessive economic and therefore political dependence on the American Right and on frankly undemocratic countries, though it certainly does serve this purpose among others.. It does not make sense to say that it's not a priority compared with the economy and the NHS and public services, because all those things are strongly influenced by our EU membership, and are likely to go down the drain if we lose it. (I am arguing here against *my own* ignorantly lukewarm Remain views of as little as three years ago.)
(6) Never be so naïve as to think that the government might have an actual PLAN for something important.
(7) Yes, you CAN get a majority to vote for economic sanctions against their own country if you call it 'sovereignty'.
(8) Yes, turkeys WILL vote for Christmas if you persuade them that Father Christmas will give them 350 million pounds a week, and whip up their xenophobia against the three French hens, two turtle doves, and a partridge in a pear tree.
(9) Britain, or more specifically England, has more Teabagger types of its own than one might like to think, and they are currently all congregating on sites with names like Get Britain Out.
(10) YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!