Video & Multimedia
Related: About this forumTexas Tech students try to answer VERY basic questions on American history and politics
newfie11
(8,159 posts)This country is screwed
CurtEastPoint
(18,643 posts)Jersey Fucking Shore.
betsuni
(25,519 posts)revisionist history that skips over all the unpleasantness? It's not that they learned about the Civil War and forgot, they never learned it in the first place, right?
Bette Noir
(3,581 posts)I understand it's called the War of Northern Aggression, there.
azureblue
(2,146 posts)prejudiced a bit, aren't you...
mercuryblues
(14,531 posts)it is called the Civil war. Sometimes with a disclaimer that people in the South called it the War of Northern Aggression. In some homes the term WoNA is used often. Along with the CW was not about slavery, but about state's rights. The 2 terms go hand in hand.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)Frustratedlady
(16,254 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]A young friend told me that he spent 4 years in a charter school in southern California where he had no history, no geography, no civics ("What's that?"), no science except some botany ("That thing plants do with the sun"), minimal math, minimal English grammar/composition, no literature, no sports, no music, and no art.
However, he could whip up a pretty professional-looking website in short order. The young man is very bright and very well spoken, and in my opinion probably belonged in an accelerated academic program.
He hated school (for good reason) and had no interests outside of his little circle of equally uneducated friends. Watching his eyes light up when exposed to new realms of knowledge that he never before knew existed is a joy.
This is what our educational system is doing to our public school kids now. They're dumbed down deliberately: Serfs educated just enough to do repetitive jobs, but kept largely ignorant so as to be easily led and bamboozled by the corporate overlords.
I'm grateful every day that my kids graduated long before the advent of privatization and charter schools!
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Germany is taking the same route......maybe there is some kind of secret agreement where America gets to supply the military might in exchange for being the worlds reserve currency, education is needed only for military grade purposes.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]And only the rich get to send their kids to elite schools for a real education -- because we know they don't ever serve in the military out of necessity, but only by their own choice.
Not an outrageous hypothesis at all; very plausible.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)decline relative to baskets of other militarized nations currencies.
Not to mention you can just print more and more whenever you want, as America has been doing for over 6 years without consequence...no inflation, no currency devaluation....no interest rate surge...nothing happens even as the printing presses hum with activity.
Just more prosperity for America, the prosperity can be controlled and directed upwards, barely a whisper of protest from other nations, they know the plan.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]It's useful for scaring the population into accepting more austerity budgets and social program cutbacks -- while the filthy rich siphon off more of the wealth for themselves that poor ignorant laborers produce.
I'm upgrading your hypothesis to a very plausible theory. It all fits too neatly.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)we have and will supply the police forces of the international PTB. It's obvious. To me.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)that other nations would at least put up symbolic support when the fighting begins....oh, never mind....
mountain grammy
(26,620 posts)you just have to wonder. So many Americans are so dumb.
Frank Cannon
(7,570 posts)I'm not really into conspiracy theories, but I do believe you have something there. It's actually a simple explanation that covers an enormous amount of fucked-up phenomena in this country.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Now, granted, I'm not one to just totally dismiss conspiracy theories out of hand, normally, but this is honestly implausible. You do realize that China isn't exactly our friend, right? If such an agreement had even been proposed, you'd bet there would be plenty of whistles blown.....and, possibly, whistleblowers disappearing or dying suspicious deaths.
The most simple explanation, really, is that America's elite are just too obsessed with profit to care about anyone but their own progeny.
Central Scruitinizer
(57 posts)But even more insidious in the fact that these kids are the intended product of our public (and for the most part) private schools.
What is the intended product from the US school system?
Obedient workers.
Do any of these interviewees look like they could come up with an original thought? Whoever won the Civil war is irrelevant. They were very much in tune with popular modern culture, great for distraction.
I would bet however that every one of these fine folks will go on to make a ton of dough for whichever firm that hires them.
Schools should be about creativity and critical thinking skills, not responding to a bell and learning the pecking order and submitting to authority.
Orrex
(63,209 posts)When Leno appropriated this gag, they would quiz dozens and dozens of people until they wound up with ten who don't know who the Vice President is, for instance.
They could just as easily have compiled a montage of people who know can recite the Constitution from memory or who can explain the most detailed minutiae of poltical theory, but that wouldn't make for a funny zinger video, now would it?
heaven05
(18,124 posts)no excuses. JESUS!!!!! What are the "zingers" here? Pitiful. Pathetic. Revealing and I am shocked at this.
Orrex
(63,209 posts)Statistically, you're likely to get a population of ignorant droolers in any group of sufficient size; the video simply shows these outliers and leaves out the rest. It's a classic technique, often used by school-privatizers to "prove" that public school is a failure.
That doesn't excuse their failure to know these basic facts, but it means we shouldn't be all that shocked, either.
We can draw no general conclusion from this video. The most damning statement we can make is that the vid's producers managed to find just enough ignorant students to produce a three minute clip.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)to draw a conclusion based on what's presented.......in this 'sample'. No excuses for not being able to answer the simple questions asked. You can intellectualize all day about polls, numbers of people polled to be able draw the conclusions you desire and it still does not take away from the fact of these college students being woefully lacking in common knowledge. Woefully lacking. Ignorant in fact. Hey you are entitled to base your conclusions on any experience you may possess.
Orrex
(63,209 posts)And it's not a matter of "we can all draw our own conclusions." Sure we can, but all conclusions are not equally valid, and you shouldn't conflate "conclusion" with "opinion." Drawing a conclusion from questionable evidence (as you're doing here) will yield a questionable conclusion.
From this video, you can draw a tentative conclusion about these half-dozen students, but it's irresponsible to extrapolate from such a tiny sample, no matter how "inexcusable" you find their lack of knowledge.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)I am curious about the validity of polling results
so I asked what others think.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025792182
I agree that all conclusions are not equally valid.
ffr
(22,669 posts)The same population sample that couldn't tell you who won the Civil War also got all the social media questions 100% correct. And I bet if the sample population increased the social media correct answers would continue to poll positively and the history questions would poll negatively.
I think that's the lesson of the video.
Orrex
(63,209 posts)The lesson of the video IMO is that you can support any conclusion that you like simply by selecting your pool of answers and editing your video to omit respondents & answers that don't help make your point.
To wit, and quite predictably, it's made quite a few people on DU freak out about The Sorry State of American Education.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)context is needed.
Treat as entertainment, not "news".
heaven05
(18,124 posts)a pretty diverse cross section of students. Why the excuses for this pathetic show of how much 'americans' know about SIMPLE things that should be common knowledge? This is revealing and nothing here is "entertaining"!!!?????
Orrex
(63,209 posts)It's irresponsible to draw conclusions from this tiny and hand-picked sampling. The poster is exactly correct: it's entertainment, not news.
The producers could tell us how many people they interviewed, how many questions they asked of each, and over how long a period the "experiment" was conducted. Absent that information, we have no way to assess the significance of these students' lack of knowledge.
You've made up your mind to be upset about this, and it's clouding your ability to see it for what it is.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)stating an opinion like you did. Always the ones to tell others what their "abilities" and responses should be. You are entitled to your conclusions as I am entitled to mine. Looks like, "never the twain shall meet". These college students knowledge outside their major course of study seems pathetic to me. Period. NOT ENTERTAINING, revealing. My conclusion.
Orrex
(63,209 posts)The analysis is this: we can draw no firm conclusions about the population as a whole from this tiny and non-representative sampling.
That's not an opinion.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)that even this small sample are so completely ignorant about basic facts, e.g., who is the vice-president. i sure as hell knew who the vice-president was when i was in college. i also knew who won the civil war.
Alittleliberal
(528 posts)Is offended by your broadbrush. Anecdote evidence isn't proof for anything, but non of my friends voted except the potheads and the acid heads. Stop making generalizations.
TNNurse
(6,926 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 11, 2014, 09:17 AM - Edit history (1)
But in California, if they ask people who live here (not foreign tourists), they should not be able to find 10 people who do not know who the Vice President is. They should not been able to do that in any state.
If you can ID, actors or singer or sports figures but not elected officials, you are not much of a citizen. Our priorities are screwed up in this country.
betsuni
(25,519 posts)because, you know, a lot of people seem to at least minor, if not major, in Beer Studies in certain colleges.
I was not finished with my coffee..... proofread, proofread, proofread.
Volaris
(10,270 posts)youtube has it
It will likely make you want to throw things. You've been warned.=)
Orrex
(63,209 posts)Literacy has been "at an end" for at least 2500 years.
Volaris
(10,270 posts)mountain grammy
(26,620 posts)but, really, the Civil War? The Vice President?
Orrex
(63,209 posts)I would have said something like "Although the Union won the war itself, in terms of long-lasting cultural and political impact, it can be argued that the Confederacy achieved the a more profound and subtle victory even if slavery as a formal institution was vanquished."
However, it would have taken me a few seconds to formulate that answer, so they might have omitted and shown only my few seconds' pause, creating the impression that I didn't know.
I'm not saying that this is exactly what happened, but it's the kind of trickery that usually goes into these Gotcha! pieces.
mountain grammy
(26,620 posts)context is everything.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)editorial when you were asked a simple question?
Orrex
(63,209 posts)Why are you inclined to give an easy soundbyte when asked a question?
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)job interview where the interviewer asks the applicant how he/she would do a specific task or job related to the work being applied for, and the interviewee begins talking about how to build bridges to a better life, or some other useless bit of trivial information. You're the one who added the soundbyte (sic)--not I.
Orrex
(63,209 posts)Last edited Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:15 AM - Edit history (1)
Do you assert that my answer--the one that I would give in a gotcha! interview like this--is incorrect?
The answer the other poster asked you to give is not "the dumber, incomplete answer". Your answer would be incorrect in that the person asking the question did not ask a question that required the answer the answer you would have given. The question was not "In the long term, who won the Civil War?", "What side in the Civil War had the more long-lasting cultural and political impact?", "What side in the Civil War had the more profound and subtle victory?"; it was "Who won the Civil War?". For that question even you answered the Union. You wrote, "Although the Union won the Civil War itself". The question only asked who won the Civil War; it did not ask anything about the long-term impact of the Civil War, or its aftermath. Therefore, the proper and only needed answer, even if the video is a gotcha video, is the Union.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)the apparent education deficit of the college students interviewed. Oh, yes, all a carefully orchestrated CT to show how dumb American college students are... Yeah, right. Last Tuesday's debacle becomes more and more clearer as the days go by.
Orrex
(63,209 posts)Do you seriously have no idea how these things are put together?
You probably believe that movies are shot in one take and that they interviewed the first half dozen students they were able to get on camera.
Puh-leeze.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)works. What this has to do with the movie industry I have no idea. I'm sure you do...No, you have a conspiracy theory that the interviews were held to purposely draw some kind of inference that college students are profoundly stupid. Were your unsupported theory true, there would be clues along the way in the way the interview was held, who was picked, the length of time given to answer the question, analysis of followup questions, etc, etc. You've shown nothing in your posts except a propensity for elaboration and a regression of useful thought. It is my belief the interviews were NOT organized purposely to demean but rather to provide some valid evidence of the lack education being provided in this country, which most even remotely cognizant people already know.
Orrex
(63,209 posts)And how is it a conspiracy theory to call out the techniques by which a zinger-piece like this is produced? Are you nutty?
I, on the other hand, offer as evidence the fact that these zinger-pieces are always produced in the manner that I've described, with many interviews conducted and distilled down to the handful that make whatever point the producers want to make.
Unless you can demonstrate that these were the only students interviewed and that their ignorance is somehow representative of the vast majority who weren't interviewed, you're basically making shit up to justify your apparent belief that America is an ignorant nation on the downward spiral to collapse.
I worry more about your defeatist attitude and your inability to comprehend statistics than I worry that some kid in Texas doesn't know who Joe Biden is.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)yet you are right about the politics of the confederacy contributing to racism as much today as the KKK, all former member of the confederacy in it's inception, did during 'reconstruction' of the white power structure in the south. And given the racial climate today in 2014, I am reminded that there were union members that joined, if not in body most assuredly in spirit, also. The cross section of students represented here said everything about the lack of political awareness among students at that university, among other obvious lacks and your sad attempt to deflect that truth is obvious and transparent and is rather laughable.
Why do you so called intellectuals always have to resort to the obvious of trying to prove your 'brightness' when just the opposite is glaring undeniable.
LeftInTX
(25,316 posts)My son knew all the answers. (Except he didn't know some of the TV stuff cuz he's not into that) He's a senior at a local Texas college.
His GF goes to Texas Tech and she knew all the answers too.
Sancho
(9,070 posts)I remember seeing one the first year I taught public school (1976). Actually, this isn't so bad! Try asking math or science questions!
At any rate, this is what happens when POLITICIANS take over education. Even in the 70's the local school district removed my science volume on evolution.
If you actually pay the teachers to teach what they wanted (most are interested in history, math, English, etc. which is why they studied it); then the kids would learn a lot more than trying to follow all the dumbed-down, test-driven, idiot-proof, high-stakes "curriculums".
Students learn what is taught. Right now, schools teach what's politically correct and whatever the Chamber of Commerce wants in the school that week. If American history doesn't help you get a job in the eyes of the business community, then it's not in the curriculum or in the school. Why have a passion to teach history if you'll only earn poverty wages? Much easier to major in "entrepreneurship" and try to pay off your loans!
Public schools and colleges hate the idea of a liberal arts education; all they espouse in the state capital is "get a job". Don't blame the kids when they are a product of a manipulated system.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)OMG! Idiocracy is here. They seem nice. But nice is not enough.
dotymed
(5,610 posts)for the average folk anyway.
My 18 H.S. graduate knows all of those answers except maybe the entertainment ones. Still, he did not apply himself in H.S. so until he "figures things out", we have decided to forgo college.These college students may have applied themselves to studying what they were taught....but it is stupidity. I am re-thinking my Son's future.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)educated enough to become DON's, so they have various hospitals working without DON's and Administrators. And the pay for these positions is very good. Same story with my daughter. Her company, a notable Retailer of clothing from babies to seniors, cannot find store managers. My daughter started there two months ago as a store manager for $72 K. She has since learned that the people working at the store cannot carry on conversations with customers regarding sales, cannot work the computer (cash register) to record sales, and think taking inventory is just "a waste of time". With respect to those considering college, one can get a basic education where you at least get a degree and do much better than the average person interviewing for a job once you can get by the interviewing process and dealing with the new HR interview questions that seem designed for people wanting to get jobs in Social Services. My advice would be to get your son to go back to college. You have now see the typical competition.
erpowers
(9,350 posts)1) What is a DON? Is it a Dean of Nurses?
2) If you do not mind telling me, where does your daughter live? Do not worry, I will not try to track her down. I just want to know in what city and state this is happening.
3) What do you mean the store workers cannot "carry on conversations with customers regarding sales"? Can these people not sell items? Can they not discuss/explain sales taxes?
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)1) What is a DON? Is it a Dean of Nurses?
[font color=blue]Director or Nurses[/font]
2) If you do not mind telling me, where does your daughter live? Do not worry, I will not try to track her down. I just want to know in what city and state this is happening.
[font color=blue]Laguna Hills, CA[/font]
3) What do you mean the store workers cannot "carry on conversations with customers regarding sales"? Can these people not sell items? Can they not discuss/explain sales taxes?
[font color=blue]There is a way to sell clothes and accessories to people that makes them comfortable with the sale and encourages them to buy more, to buy accessories, etc. But don't lie. Say stuff like "you look good in that; that is a good color for you. That would be ideal for the party you are going to...." Stuff that makes them feel like you are taking an interest--not just putting something on them. No one has to explain sales tax at these stores; the more high level ones in particular.[/font]
I hope that answers your questions. I tried to speak in the vernacular so I wouldn't look like an HR freak.
Orange County, CA is fairly easy place to get a job if you have some management Retail experience. My daughter gets one to three calls a week--some because of Xmas, some not. If you are looking for a job, make sure to not create too stuffy of a resume, like they and I did in yesteryear. Don't make it too informal--maybe medium somewhere. Have a couple of your friends look at it. Right now I know that J Crew, Saks and others are looking. They are making decisions faster too. Particularly if you can give a good presentation. But no facial tattoos, lip or nose beads, and hair that looks like it was done with a latte maker. People in higher level stores gravitate to people that look like them, at least superficially.
Oh, well. Good luck.
Elmergantry
(884 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 11, 2014, 11:57 AM - Edit history (1)
Stupid go in college, stupid come out.
Are not the colleges weeding out the rumdums via the SAT's? Guess not. Maybe its becasue the colleges are more interested in getting all that money from the parents and govt subsidies no matter how ill prepared the students are - setting them up for failure and saddling them with debt.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)a2liberal
(1,524 posts)Guess I need to brush up on pop culture...
Orrex
(63,209 posts)You need to shocked and ashamed at your inexcusable ignorance.
HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!1!
wandy
(3,539 posts)Sancho
(9,070 posts)drynberg
(1,648 posts)Number than a pounded thumb...very sad actually.
antiquie
(4,299 posts)LittleGirl
(8,287 posts)and she doesn't sound at all like she's from Tejas.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)college students to her questions. Why exactly would they have done better on a written examination?
antiquie
(4,299 posts)I know if I was onscreen, I would suffer acute brain freeze.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)show 20 years ago when I was working as an extra. Once they select the contestants based on questions you are asked in several screening tryouts, they put you through a process to put you at ease so you won't freeze when you are asked a question. But, yes, some of that could have occurred with the students, but not knowing who won the civil war? No...that is beyond the pale.
intheflow
(28,466 posts)Incredibly smart, well-read woman. She totally froze and lost badly. Though she did get a lifetime supply of Lee Press-On Nails.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)tv for a long time so I don't know how it is now.
LeftInTX
(25,316 posts)maddiemom
(5,106 posts)truth2power
(8,219 posts)jschurchin
(1,456 posts)They actuality vote. Kinda helps understand the mid-terms, huh.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)EEO
(1,620 posts)ffr
(22,669 posts)This is so sad to watch.
K & R
ffr
(22,669 posts)And we can start by educational ads that address history in some fun way that the young will take notice. Maybe we need to get Brad Pitt and Angolina Jolie to be the spokes person. Maybe even Snookie. Hell, I don't care, give out gold stars again if that helps!
If this is the best our educational system can do in this era of disengagement, it needs to adapt and get these kids engaged again. Give all of them an F and send them back to 4th grade.
WestCoasterDude
(21 posts)1monster
(11,012 posts)seventh grade, and American in eight grade. In high school, students take World History and either American History or Civics, or Economics.
As our history gets longer, the students get less and less information and time spent on important events. I saw one history book that gave about one and a half pages to World War II and the issues leading up to it. That book was huge.
History should be broken up into segments, with one segment following the other for all six years of secondary school. A brief six week review highlighting the major points of the previous years studies should be implemented in every shcool year. And geography should play a major part in the history lessons as geography has played and continues to play a major part in history.
Central Scruitinizer
(57 posts)History traditionally is done as boring as possible so that details are foggy.
Worse still history schoolbooks 'teach' American Exceptionalism, that is why USA is #1 YEAH!
We ignore boring because it is lame.
This is good training to give the GOP a chance at the election booth. These kids are future GOP voters.
xiamiam
(4,906 posts)and that is how it is done...even from a young student who has obviously been pressured to cover up what she unfortunately revealed ..what ever happened to the truth is good enough? pathetic..embarrassing yes, for some of the students but now that she has changed it, the real problem emerges..concealing ignorance..
iamthebandfanman
(8,127 posts)and want further proof that americans are pretty ignorant and that their perception of things is often not reality.. like say.. a study of some sort versus randomly questioning people on the street...
here ya go :
http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2014/11/11/political-ignorance-study
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)...most of the history they don't know is a lie anyways.
- So if you look at it that way, now they have less to unlearn!
K&R
azmom
(5,208 posts)Core, comprehensive and honors classes. If you were in a core class, they didn't teach you shit. Just the minimum to move them along. Sad for those kids.
czarjak
(11,274 posts)Once Kent Hance became Chancellor, it became all about enrollment increases and expansion. Facualty was pressured to graduate students at any cost. One of my neighbors at the time, a tenured professor told me, "they're cooking the books, there are people at TTU working on doctorates that couldn't pass masters courses." How's that for some academic integrity? TTU motto: "Strive for honor."
tclambert
(11,085 posts)Who won the Civil War? The Lannisters.
Who is the Vice President? Hugh Hefner.
Who did we gain our independence from? The Germans, after they bombed Pearl Harbor. (Hey, I'm rolling.)
What show is Snookie on? All of them.
Who is Brad Pitt married to? Every woman in America . . . in their dreams.
Who was he married to before that? Tyler Durden.
What school will my kids and grandkids never, ever go to? Texas Tech.
Wgles
(18 posts)I watched the video, then (feeling stunned) walked to my 16 year old daughter's room and asked all the questions. She got them all right, even the snookie one. Then she told me she was talking about Joe Biden a lot at school and once her friend asked her "who is this Joe Biden you keep talking about" and she said "its the vice president!!" That friend of hers has a very religious and close minded mom. I think it is part the education but part the parenting. If politics is discussed a lot in the house (which is true in our house), then the kids are less intimidated by it and then they are open to learning it, etc. etc....