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Tue Sep 17, 2013, 02:04 AM

 

The Thorium Problem!

10 replies, 1493 views

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Arrow 10 replies Author Time Post
Reply The Thorium Problem! (Original post)
BillyRibs Sep 2013 OP
dotymed Sep 2013 #1
formercia Sep 2013 #2
Sand Wind Sep 2013 #4
formercia Sep 2013 #5
lapfog_1 Sep 2013 #3
Theyletmeeatcake2 Sep 2013 #7
formercia Sep 2013 #6
dougolat Sep 2013 #8
padruig Sep 2013 #9
Sand Wind Sep 2013 #10

Response to BillyRibs (Original post)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 06:32 AM

1. Interpretation?

Are they saying "to hell with really clean energy" like solar and wind so that they can keep profits flowing? I am not a chemist but this is how it interprets to me.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 06:56 AM

2. Rare Earth Elements are needed

to make the powerful Magnets that are an essential component of Wind Turbines. Thorium is an unwanted waste product of mining Rare-Earth containing Minerals, primarily Monazite, of which the US has an abundant supply.

Thorium can be used as a Fuel for a Nuclear Reactor that does no produce Plutonium and much less waste than Uranium based Reactors but the Uranium-based Nuclear Industrial Complex does not want the competition from Thorium.

If the US were to start the production of Thorium-based reactors for generating Energy, it would allow the production of needed Rare-Earth Elements, by taking Thorium out of the waste stream, and putting it to use for generating Energy.

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Response to formercia (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 08:30 AM

4. Great, and could it help to by-pass some chinese monopoly ?

 

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Response to Sand Wind (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 08:44 AM

5. That was the point of the discussion

We have more than we need right here, but the mining of Rare-Earth Elements came to a halt when the producers were undercut by the Chinese. The Thorium byproduct has to be dealt with properly. One cannot just dump a radioactive Element on the Ground without consequences, so why not put the Thorium to good use? The Chinese don't have that problem, they just dump it.

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Response to BillyRibs (Original post)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 07:55 AM

3. MSR issues (wikipedia)

Advantages

The molten salt reactor offers many potential advantages compared to current light water reactors:
Inherently safe design (safety by passive components and the strong negative temperature coefficient of reactivity of some designs).
Operating at a low pressure improves safety and simplifies the design
In theory a full recycle system can be much cleaner: the discharge wastes after chemical separation are predominately fission products, most of which have relatively short half lives compared to longer-lived actinide wastes. This can result in a significant reduction in the containment period in a geologic repository (300 years vs. tens of thousands of years).
The fuel's liquid phase is adequate for pyroprocessing for separation of fission products. This may have advantages over conventional reprocessing, though much development is still needed.
There is no need for fuel rod manufacturing
Some designs can "burn" problematic transuranic elements from traditional solid-fuel nuclear reactors.
A MSR can react to load changes in less than 60 seconds (unlike "traditional" solid-fuel nuclear power plants that suffer from Xenon poisoning).
Molten salt reactors can run at high temperatures, yielding high efficiencies to produce electricity.
Some MSRs can offer a high "specific power", that is high power at a low mass. This was demonstrated by the ARE, the aircraft reactor experiment.
a possibly good neutron economy makes the MSR attractive for the neutron poor thorium fuel cycle.

Disadvantages

Little development compared to most Gen IV designs - much is unknown.
Need to operate an on-site chemical plant to manage core mixture and remove fission products.
Lithium containing salts will cause significant tritium production (comparable with heavy water reactors), even if pure 7Li is used.
Likely need for regulatory changes to deal with radically different design features.
Corrosion may occur over many decades of reactor operation and could be problematic.
Nickel and iron based alloys are prone to embrittlement under high neutron flux.(p83)

-------------------------
need to solve the corrosion problem.

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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 08:59 AM

7. Much is unknown????? Warning,warning,Wlll Robinson !!!!

Isn't that how we get into these problems. Wouldn't it be better to spend development dollars on new ways to reduce the actual power required to do tasks....led lights, more efficient heaters,any thing that reduces the need to expand our base load....isn't our problem our increasing our need for power....sometimes lo-tech can achieve results that work out in the cost benefit analysis..anything but pandering to big interests that want big is better....anyone want to buy a multi billion dollar desalination plant in wonthaggi Australia that was built when cheaper options were available that did not cost unless needed....this private taxation is the beginning of the end....

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Response to BillyRibs (Original post)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 08:48 AM

6. Brazil's Problem




Next video: Analysis of the Sand

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Response to BillyRibs (Original post)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:01 PM

8. 1950's "Atoms for Peace" skewed the nuclear industry for the weapons mfr.s PR needs...nt

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Response to BillyRibs (Original post)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 07:13 PM

9. breeders ...



All reactors are 'breeders' in that they produce highly radioactive waste materials that which depending on the source system can either be used as a fuel for other reactors or materials for weapons production.

Building a generation of thorium salt reactors will not solve our energy problems nor will it eliminate our nuclear waste problem.

Thorium salt reactors can never be shut down because if the level of fuel falls below a certain concentration the heat effect diminishes, the salt goes to solid and you now have an enormous radioactive block of salt. If you do attempt to shut them down, you have to dismantle the containment vessel and entomb the salt in a moderator.

This is the problem now confronting the French in decommissioning the Superphenix where they are examining taking 5,550 tons of sodium coolant and mixing it with 70,000 tons of concrete.

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Response to BillyRibs (Original post)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 09:55 PM

10. Kick.

 

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