Russia promotes conventional forces in new doctrine

[inanna]

Source: BBC

President Vladimir Putin of Russia has signed a revised version of the country's military doctrine, which identifies major threats to security.

The new document promotes the use of Russia's conventional, non-nuclear forces as a deterrent.

<snip>

Nato expansion into eastern Europe remains the main military threat identified in the new planning document, published (in Russian) on the Kremlin website, which replaces the 2010 doctrine.

<snip>

After a meeting last week, the Russian Security Council announced in a statement (in Russian) that the new doctrine would take account of "the emergence of new threats for Russia, which became evident in the situation in Ukraine and around it and the events in Northern Africa, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan".

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30604866

[True Blue Door]

1. "Conventional" except for the internet troll army and bank-robbing hackers.

Russia must boldly prepare to meet the threats its Glorious Leader is patriotically creating for it.

[bemildred]

2. Putin signs new military doctrine naming NATO as Russia’s top military threat

MOSCOW — President Vladimir Putin has signed a new military doctrine that describes NATO’s military buildup near the Russian borders as the top military threat amid Russia-West tensions over Ukraine.

The document released by the Kremlin on Friday maintains the provisions of the previous, 2010 edition of the military doctrine regarding the use of nuclear weapons. It says Russia could use nuclear weapons in retaliation to the use of nuclear or other weapons of mass destruction against it or its allies, and also in case of aggression involving conventional weapons that “threatens the very existence” of the Russian state.

For the first time, the new doctrine says that Russia could use precision weapons “as part of strategic deterrent measures.” The document doesn’t spell out conditions for their use.

Putin signed the new doctrine just as a major exchange of war prisoners was expected Friday. But the swap was embroiled in controversy, with some reports saying it has been completed and others saying it had has been pushed back a day.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/12/26/putin-signs-new-military-doctrine-naming-nato-as-russias-top-military-threat/

[Duckhunter935]

4. Funny thing is

NATO was on the way out and just an empty shell until Putin invaded and annexed a non-NATO country. Now the NATO countries are scared the same thing will happen to them, NATO is getting better equipment and funding. Not to mention now Ukraine is now actively trying to join NATO. Will not happen as long as the war with Russia is going on though.

[bemildred]

5. Ukraine is bankrupt and has already lost Crimea and Donbass.

Not to mention having degraded it's military in the process, crashed it's economy, and killed and injured lots of people. Now they are in the process of a political purge, and I've got a hunch that isn't going to go well either. The Kiev government has no intention of giving up on war yet. Meanwhile, young people with options are leaving for safer places. But who gives a shit about that stuff, right?

Nobody is going to fix it you know, it's well on its way to being a failed state. Good job! That will teach them.

[daleo]

6. Yes, but it will be our failed state

Using the old Cold War mentality in these matters. I believe the phrase was:

&quot Insert leader's name) may be a bastard, but he's our bastard".

[bemildred]

7. You know, I almost hope they keep pushing.

If it were not for the damage being done to Ukraine, I would welcome the coming debacle.

I have consided since around a year ago October that we were headed right where we are, civil war, chaos, and bankruptcy. And that the purpose of the excercise was as described in this piece http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016109903 by Patrick L. Smith, but I saw the whole thing laid out back then, some guy I read then explaining how WWIII is going to start over Ukraine back then, and boy did he know what he ws talking about. I wish I'd saved the link.

[daleo]

35. Good article

Personally, I am no fan of Putin, but the juvenile discourse in many of the anti-Putin post makes me suspicious of what is really going on. It has been my experience that name calling is often a tactic used when people have bad arguments, or when they don't want to reveal their actual motives.

I really can't take people seriously who shout about freedom on the one hand, but disrupt civil discourse with name calling on the other hand.

[bemildred]

38. I concur. nt

[Duckhunter935]

8. You know of course they will not be allowed to join NATO

Yes they lost those from the invasion by the much greater military after Ukraine let theirs deteriorate to nothing after signing the Budapest agreement and being naïve that Russia and Putin would actually honor it.

[bemildred]

13. Yeah, you can kiss the Budapest Agreement goodbye now too.

Another great victory for Ukraine, trashing that. Good job.

[Duckhunter935]

14. Russia already did that

Ukraine should by all rights be able to get its nukes back as the other signers have not helped it from the invasion from Russia per that agreement. I hope they do not and hope Russia decides on it's own that it made a mistake and withdraws support and leaves Crimea and returns it back to the sovereign state of Ukraine. Do not think that will ever happen as Putin can not afford that as a dictator can not ever look weak.

[bemildred]

15. Right, nothing to do with us.

We are just trying to help. Innocent bystanders. We have done nothing to encourage this mess.


Here is Ms Nuland, the boss of this admitting she has no idea what Russia thinks:

“I’ve long since stopped trying to get inside the head of decision-makers in the Kremlin,” she said. “It hasn’t been a productive exercise.”

http://pjmedia.com/blog/nuland-toxic-cocktail-hitting-russia-as-state-dept-preparing-more-support-for-ukraine/?singlepage=true

[Duckhunter935]

16. We did not invade, nor break that agreement

Until we did not help them when Russia broke that agreement.

So in short yes, nothing from us. Unless you count the making of those magic cookies. Putin decides and Russia moves, The Kremlin does not make the decisions. They just ratify what the dictator says. So yes, she is actually right on not knowing how the Kremlin will react. They just invade other nations breaking signed agreements and international law when Putin tells them. Then the rubber stamp his decision.

[bemildred]

17. Stonewall all the way huh?

I suppose Iraq had nothing to do with us too, and Afghanistan, and Libya, and Syria, ..

We just spread peace and order wherever we go.

Putin set out to destroy Ukraine for some crazy reason and we were only trying to help.

[NobodyHere]

24. It wasn't a valid agreement by the US anyways.

Not in any legally binding sense anyways.

[bemildred]

27. Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances:

Content

According to the memorandum, Russia, the U.S., and the UK confirmed, in recognition of Ukraine becoming party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and in effect abandoning its nuclear arsenal to Russia, that they would:

Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders. -- Both sides have done and are now violating this, simply by the fact they have taken sides in a dispute, going back decades, over who Ukraine should belong to. Meddle Meddle meddle.

Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine. -- Russia definitely violated this one.

Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics. -- We have been all over this for decades, and so has Russia.

Seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, "if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used". -- Ha ha ha ha ha ha ....

Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine. -- So far so good, although I have no doubt that Ukraine is now back on the targeting lists again on both sides.

Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments. -- Actually in this, the Russians seem far more inclined to talk, but they are a lot closer to the action, and weak compared to the US and EU. When this all started Putin was in Sochi trying to suck up to the West, but we thought it was a good time for another "color revolution", what are we up to puce?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

[NobodyHere]

29. Remind me where this was ratified by the Senate

All they have is Bill Clinton's signature. Kind of like when Al Gore signed the Kyoto Protocol, it doesn't mean much.

So I guess we can let Bill go enforce it.

[bemildred]

32. Remind me why I care.

The point is that neither side has faithfully kept their end of the bargain, signed or not.

[Xolodno]

31. ...meh....

I gave up a while ago pointing out the obvious.

Iran
Cuba
Nicaragua
Honduras
Panama
Vietnam
Cambodia
Chile
Paraguay
Venezuela
Columbia
El Salvador
Afghanistan
etcetera...etcetera...etcetera...

Despite the US track record...and the obvious...they still put their hands over their ears and say *La La La*. No this is different...because:

1. Putin is Dr Evil. Yeah..no shit sherlock. But that has bearing how? We tried to change a nation pro-west...no one saw Dr. Evil having a problem with that?

2. You think the protests weren't spontaneous because Nunland was handing out cookies!. Uh....no....and that's such a stupid statement, it doesn't deserve to be dignified with a response. No, Nunland was so cocky, arrogant and full of gall of snatching Ukraine away from Russia...she decided to make a public spectacle of it. But in their twisted thinking....they think...we think handing out cookies is regime change....guess they don't know a victory lap when they see it.

3. Putin is a human rights abuser! And so is China...but where is the outrage? Zip. Zilch. Zero. Instead, we are going to have a Disneyland opening up in Shanghai....yeah...real outrage there.....Better yet, how about we clean up our own house on human rights abuses....we have a huge prison population, war criminals walking around freely, etc. You know...people in glass houses...

And then there is the usual two minute hate....and people frothing at the mouth..."Where are the Punista's!!!!!....why aren't they defending Putin!!!!" Ummmmm....granted there probably a couple here and there...but the vast majority aren't defending Putin....no...they are criticizing US Policy that still has a cold war mentality.

And some of the other ludicrous stuff I read here that makes me click "X" on the browser and shake my head..."US Sanctions are working!!!!!!" Uh...since when did the EU and Saudi Arabia become part of the United States? Trade between the US and Russia is very minimal. We're talking about Vodka, Kaspersky software and McDonald's. Russia is actually more of a trade competitor in terms of energy, military and technology. It wasn't that long ago when all this shit went down that there was talk of the US of exporting energy to Europe....that is until the Saudi's pulled the rug from under us.

That reminds me...I should buy some Rubles and Oil Stocks while they are dirt cheap, I'll make a killing once they recover....

[bemildred]

33. I was thinking about oil. Who knows when it will be this cheap again?

But on the other hand I have no faith at all in the idea that we have a stable investment environment.

I think the Putin hate is mostly because they can't argue on the basis or reason or logic, they lose that argument every time if they have to admit Russia is a ordinary state and Putin is an ordinary nationalist/oligarch, hence the Hitler allusions and such. And he IS easy to get annoyed with, for lots of reasons, so it makes it convenient.

I think the thing that irritates me the most is the indispensible nation being asserted to have nothing to do with THIS mess. Uh uh, we didn't touch this one, no Sir!

[Adrahil]

9. Yeah, much better to bow down to the master in Moscow! n/t

[bemildred]

10. Much better to have food and be alive.

Much better to have a job and some prospects in life.
Much better to not be a citizen of a failed state.
Much better to not be sick or at least be able to get health care.
Much better to have heat in the winter.
Much better to have a currency that is worth more than a bucket of warm spit.

[Duckhunter935]

18. You get that if you bow down

You may even get a cut of the spoils after Putin gets his.

Normal Russians that do not agree are jailed, disappear or die very early in their 50's due to drinking starvation or freezing to death.

Do not forget now young people are dying in large numbers on "vacation" or in the never ending "military exercise" along Ukraine's border. They just get quietly buried.

[bemildred]

19. I'm sorry, I'm done with you.

Have a nice day.

[Duckhunter935]

21. You too, and a Happy New Year

[Cha]

36. I can see why you are "done" with him.. too many inconvenient facts.. that I appreciate.

[Adrahil]

22. Yes... Being an imperial possession has it advantages I suppose....

.... Others prefer self-determination. And yes, it often comes with a price.

I admit that I cannot understand the mindset of people like you.

[bemildred]

25. Sanctimonious twaddle.

Always happy to help others die for our beliefs. If you are dead, you do not have self-determination. If you are hungry and cold and sick, you do not have self-determination. If someone blows your leg off, you do not have self-determination. If you are bankrupt in a money economy you do not have self-determination.

You are quite right that ultimately freedom is taken, not given, but nobody, and I do mean nobody, is offering Ukraine freedom, and they are a long way from having to means to take it themselves, and moving farther away as we speak.

[Cha]

37. They prefer a homophobic dicatator and spout "santicmonious twaddle" at others who disagree..easy.

[bemildred]

11. Real wages in Ukraine 13.5 percent down in November

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/business/real-wages-in-ukraine-135-percent-down-in-november-376226.html

[Duckhunter935]

20. Not a surprise

Trying to resurrect a neglected military after being invaded by a much superior force of Russia. Ukraine relied too much on the signed agreements that were broken and did not put any money in their military. Another reason they would not have been allowed to join NATO.

[Adrahil]

23. What's your point?

Ukraine DARED to defy Putin, and now Putin is doing everything he can to destroy his neighbor, and force them back beneath his boot. Once might think you'd criticize Putin for being an imperialist prick instead of Ukraine for daring to strike their own path.

[bemildred]

26. Putin Putin Putin. What about Ukraine?

Just because Putin is an asshole, that doesn't give us the right to sacrifice Ukraine to punish him. If you meddle in these things you are supposed to know what you are doing. We don't.

[Monk06]

12. NATO was not 'an empty shell' until Putin 'invaded' a non-NATO country, quite the opposite is true.

NATO has been active in non-NATO countries since the invasion of Kuwait. It was also involved in the Bosnian/Herzegovina war, the Georgia/South Ossetia conflict and the Libya intervention.

NATO is not defunct in fact it is being used by the US as a fig leaf for phoney war coalitions. Expanding NATO into the Caucasus is at the top of the US foreign policy agenda with respect to Russia

So NATO is neither defunct nor neutral nor is it a defensive organization.

[yurbud]

28. NATO was going to shut down when there were still some countries that defy international bankers?

Or rather, don't follow their decrees to the letter, even if it means screwing their own people?

[Ryan Fitzomething]

30. "...the events in Northern Africa, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan"

Hmm. Seems to me he's referring to a specific country. I wonder which one it could possibly be???

[Sunlei]

34. got to get those hungry masses in the military before they become unemployed angry mobs of russians